Most expensive perks (to date) and current updated list of Attributes (5) /Skill trees (12) and some new perks information

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... the attribute points determine the limit on perk points spendable in the skills connected to that attribute. to clarify:
if you have a Reflex of 8, you only have 8 perk points to spread across all three Reflex skills (Handguns, Rifles, Blades).

I thought you can rise every perk to the attribute level, not that you have a limited amount of points to spend dictated by that attribute level.

We know that using handguns increases that skill, but how does that gel with the attribute cap?

I think they are not influenced by attribute level. Using something gives you xp to that skill, skill that levels up at certain thresholds. As seen in the b-rolls sent to media.
It will be bad if you can't get good with something because you don't level an attribute.
Example: If I don't level up reflex at all will that mean that I can't ever be able to use handguns, rifles and blades?
 
my understanding is: yes, we won't get "good" unless we level reflex up.
my understanding is partially that Reflex determines the cap, and that use levels up the skill but not the attribute.
maybe...using handguns adds the XP to the attribute too, allowing you to level that up, while also giving you a specific perk point to spend?

dunno. but yeah, that's the thing that confuses me for now
 
if you have a Reflex of 8, you only have 8 perk points to spread across all three Reflex skills (Handguns, Rifles, Blades). We know that using handguns increases that skill, but how does that gel with the attribute cap? That's a genuine contention for me right now. i'm sure the game will explain it. considering Reflex has ~60 perks in it...how this will work seems weird to me, but i'm curious and excited.
I don't think that's quite how the gating works. I think it's if you have Reflex 8, then your three skill trees (Handguns, Rifles, Blades) cannot increase above 8. You increase stats with cyberware or possibly with perk/attribute points, but the skills only level up as you use them. The skills max though is gated by your stat.

That means only perks associated with that level of skill or lower can be accessed (so you couldn't get the capstone perk and probably the ones close to it). But you would not be limited to 8 perk points necessarily - you would just be limited to the ones associated with level 8 or lower in that skill tree.

I could be wrong of course, but that is how I've understood it so far.
 
I don't think that's quite how the gating works. I think it's if you have Reflex 8, then your three skill trees (Handguns, Rifles, Blades) cannot increase above 8. You increase stats with cyberware or possibly with perk/attribute points, but the skills only level up as you use them. The skills max though is gated by your stat.

That means only perks associated with that level of skill or lower can be accessed (so you couldn't get the capstone perk and probably the ones close to it). But you would not be limited to 8 perk points necessarily - you would just be limited to the ones associated with level 8 or lower in that skill tree.

I could be wrong of course, but that is how I've understood it so far.
That's the way they explained it 1 year ago. Has anything changed? We don't know. Or at least I don't know. :shrug:
 
Did I see wrong or was the Witcher 3 system of "activating perks" in place (that your "perk" does nothing if you don't have it "activated")?

I thought I saw a perk being dragged in a slot on the character sheet ... board (???) and there were five of those per skill.

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Speaking of skills and perks, I was kinda hoping a good lot of them would've been throwbacks to the 2020 skills and perhaps even added some kind of social skills (beyond barter price modifiers), instead of these afore mentioned weird magic abilities like +damage or +armor for a duration... It all now kinda points towards the combat centricism of the game and I'm not surprised that one of the reviewers was sort of puzzled that inspite the game advertising itself as multi-approach affair, it makes it pretty hard to do anything but kill everyone in front of you. And the fact that most of the skills are straight combat skills and the rest are combat related, and also a lot of the perks seem to be straightforwardly centered around combat too... I dunno.
 
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Did I see wrong or was the Witcher 3 system of "activating perks" in place (that your "perk" does nothing if you don't have it "activated")?

I thought I saw a perk being dragged in a slot on the character sheet ... board (???) and there were five of those per skill.
where did you see that? I hope it's not the case. It was awful in W3 and it'd be awful here.
 
Did I see wrong or was the Witcher 3 system of "activating perks" in place (that your "perk" does nothing if you don't have it "activated")?

I thought I saw a perk being dragged in a slot on the character sheet ... board (???) and there were five of those per skill.
Well the 2019 deep dive skill screenshot linked in the first post of this thread seems to indicate that each skill has 5 perks you can slot in.
I hope that has changed, I wasn't a fan of the limited perk slots in TW3, it felt artificial and it killed some of the fun of building a character.

Speaking of skills and perks, I was kinda hoping a good lot of them would've been throwbacks to the 2020 skills and perhaps even added some kind of social skills (beyond barter price modifiers), instead of these afore mentioned weird magic abilities like +damage or +armor for a duration... It all now kinda points towards the combat centricism of the game and I'm not surprised that one of the reviewers was sort of puzzled that inspite the game advertising itself as multi-approach affair, it makes it pretty hard to do anything but kill everyone in front of you. And the fact that most of the skills are straight combat skills and the rest are combat related, and also a lot of the perks seem to be straightforwardly centered around combat too... I dunno.
Fair criticism but you have to keep in mind that a tabletop game has the luxury of having a GM that can alter situations on the fly to let you make use of those skills Not to mention that a lot of scenarios even in the tabletop tended to be more combat-centric.

In a videogame you don't have that luxury. So then you have 3 options:
1. Put in a lot of work in adding scenarios/situations that let the player use a skill that is somewhat niche in the context of a videogame.
2. Add in a few situations to make use of that skill making said skill feel unrewarding because you barely get to use it
3. Not add the skill and focus on other things.

So it boils down to putting time and effort into something relatively niche (given its usage) or focus on other things. I'd love to have a lot of non-combat skills but realistically speaking it's unlikely to happen

You have to keep in mind that there are skill checks as well, so not everything is used for combat and that combat isn't always the only option (you have stealth for example).
 
where did you see that? I hope it's not the case. It was awful in W3 and it'd be awful here.

It was a quick flash in one (or two) of the videos I watched.

Plus, if you look at the character "board" there are clear slots (5) at the side of the skills that show perk images and their "ranks" there.
Plus plus, one of the perks even says "if active" or "if active".
"COLD BLooD: "Merciless" - if Cold Blood active, crit chance +1 0% and crit damage +2%"

Dunno. I might be reading too much into it, I've seen too much Witcher 3 in the game as it is, but... You know how these things tend to go.

Fair criticism but you have to keep in mind that a tabletop game has the luxury of having a GM...

Well, yeah, the comparison to a PnP game "as is" is undeniably out of the question and is something nobody should try to push on, but then again a lot of games (in the past) that've been made with a shoestring budget by comparison have had abilities and skills that let you deepen your interactivity with the world.

The point is, it doesn't need to be "just about combat". There are plenty of ways to add in supplementary abilities with passive, and something active too, effects. At the end of the day, even social abilities (the supplementary ones) are nothing but a play with numbers under the hood.

They've put heaps of attention on giving random NPC's schedules that nobody will notice. The kind of stuff I've been talking about is pure gameplay addition, the player'd be affected should he choose to be.

It's too late to complain about that that stuff in hopes that something would change, and I don't (expect anything to change), but I like speaking my mind.
 
@kofeiiniturpa towards your comment about Cold Blood, Cold Blood is a character state when V's health goes below 40% (at the moment)(there might be other conditions that can activate Cold Blood)

so Cold Blood perks are (for now, as far as we understand) activated when V's health is under 40%.
however, the NCW demo showed V gaining Cold Blood XP when she shoots the gangoon outside the the area made of shipping containers, where she saves the Monk, and her health was more than that. so there may be more than one condition that merits the activation/recognition of the Cold Blood status
 
It was a quick flash in one (or two) of the videos I watched.

Plus, if you look at the character "board" there are clear slots (5) at the side of the skills that show perk images and their "ranks" there.
Plus plus, one of the perks even says "if active" or "if active".
"COLD BLooD: "Merciless" - if Cold Blood active, crit chance +1 0% and crit damage +2%"

Dunno. I might be reading too much into it, I've seen too much Witcher 3 in the game as it is, but... You know how these things tend to go.
I think the old board is not valid anymore and those 5 slots have been substituted by the 20ish skill slots.

I think cold blood is a skill that is activated upon certain conditions, such as HP > 20% or stuff like that. I remember something about it from old info.

Not sure of anything, but media hasn't discussed the necessity to equip skills AFAIK :shrug:
 
the skills in the PnP game are mostly descriptive, and then when applied to actual scenarios are essentially percentage modifiers and up to the discretion of the GM. for example, the handgun skill is described as:
You must have this skill to effectively use handguns of any type, including cyberwear types. At +2, you can use a handgun effectively on a target range, though combat will still rattle you. At +5, you are as skilled as most military officers or policemen. At +7, you can do the sort of fancy shooting you see on TV, and have begun to get a reputation of being ``good with a gun``. At +8, you are a recognized gunslinger with a ``rep``. The very sound of your name makes some people back down in fear. At+ 1 0, you are a legendary gunslinger, feared by all except the stupid young punks who keep trying to ``take`` you in innumerable gunfight challenges.

and in combat your rolls determine effectiveness: damage is REF+Weapon Skill+1d10. in my head, that's just a percentage modifier. and that's how pretty much all the skills in the PnP are described. so when i see a ton of percentage modifiers in the skills, esp stackables, i'm like, 'yeah that pretty much checks.' CDPR is GM but they're more a Clockwork god than an active intercessor so compromises gotta be made when the rules are literally coded.
 
Example: If I don't level up reflex at all will that mean that I can't ever be able to use handguns, rifles and blades?
you won't be able to improve handguns/rifles/grenades past the level of your Reflex stat. so you'll just be sitting on attribute perks in Ref until you level it up (apparently).

Announcement: after rewatching Dantics and Arekkz breakdown, I figured it out guys. and you all helped clarify it with good questions. i understand it now. thank y'all. y'all are dope :giggle:
 
you won't be able to improve handguns/rifles/grenades past the level of your Reflex stat. so you'll just be sitting on attribute perks in Ref until you level it up (apparently).
That sucks. What you said combined with a lot of perks oriented on the combat aspect does not offer much diversity for play styles. I am sure there will be must have perks chosen every time that you start a new play through.
 
That sucks. What you said combined with a lot of perks oriented on the combat aspect does not offer much diversity for play styles. I am sure there will be must have perks chosen every time that you start a new play through.
i wouldn't be so sure. remember, this is all based on partial info, so we can't know for sure. i'm just glad i understand what i'm able to understand...until we get more info later on. so, i'm still pretty confident that people here are gonna be creative enough to find the emergent gameplay in the ~230 perks that'll be available to us. i kno i'll figure out some way to circumvent combat. everyone figures it out in almost every game where it's possible. it'll be Cool-Stealth, Body-Athletics, Intelligence and Technical-Crafting for me on my first playthrough. after that, it's a free-for-all
 
Thanks for the information! Glad to know the improvement of skill trees!
I hope they can include pickpocketing in the skill tree.
I also hope there can be one perk allow me use something like glass bottle as temporary melee weapon.
 
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"Listen up everybody New Vegas, was a looter shooter!"
Those so-called "looter shooter" tropes you mentioned all existed in RPGs before looter shooters were a thing

No offence but new vegas had also many and many social skills that were able to define and customize the psyche of your character often opening branches and variety in the quests and sidequest giving you way more option.

Also new vegas is not Cyberpunk as a setting. The problem here that the game like it is indeed is a departure not only from what made Cyberpunk distinct in technical system but also in the whole spirit of Cyberpunk the pen and paper.

And that is the main point as why i despise what i seen. If this game were based on another franchise or were a total different franchise it was a different thing.

Basically is like taking D&D and put in the gameplay of god of war.
 
Was there ever a time for this?

I’m not sure. The devs read the forum, so perhaps in some rare cases where the complaint and suggestion of how to fix it have aligned closely enough to what they were already doing, something might've gone through.

in combat your rolls determine effectiveness: damage is REF+Weapon Skill+1d10.

To my recollection, that is the to-hit roll (or to-succeed with non-combat skilltests). Damage is rolled with d6's. Unless you've houseruled otherwise.

I think the old board is not valid anymore and those 5 slots have been substituted by the 20ish skill slots.

We'll see. I definitely remember seeing what I said I saw.
 
No offence but new vegas had also many and many social skills that were able to define and customize the psyche of your character often opening branches and variety in the quests and sidequest giving you way more option.

Also new vegas is not Cyberpunk as a setting. The problem here that the game like it is indeed is a departure not only from what made Cyberpunk distinct in technical system but also in the whole spirit of Cyberpunk the pen and paper.

And that is the main point as why i despise what i seen. If this game were based on another franchise or were a total different franchise it was a different thing.

Basically is like taking D&D and put in the gameplay of god of war.
I mean the attributes open up different dialogue options so there's that at least.
 
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