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Multiplayer Thread - Competitive and/or Co-Op.

+

Multiplayer Thread - Competitive and/or Co-Op.

  • PvP (COD, Battlefield etc)

    Votes: 11 6.8%
  • 4 player co-op which allows you to play with friends. (Borderlands)

    Votes: 65 40.1%
  • MMO like multiplayer with 32+ players in the world doing their own thing (GTA Online).

    Votes: 24 14.8%
  • I don't really care

    Votes: 14 8.6%
  • I don't want multiplayer in the game.

    Votes: 48 29.6%

  • Total voters
    162
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chriswebb2020.736

chriswebb2020.736

Forum veteran
#441
Sep 19, 2013
227 said:
I saw Prodigy in concert once, and that choir is better at performing Prodigy songs than Prodigy is.
Click to expand...
I did some security work at Download in 2009. Mostly the centre of the pit but I did some close protection too. Prodigy were awesome. I did their pit and in their set alone almost 3,000 people came over the barrier. Not even one got to the foot of the stage. That was hard work... (18 hour days on 2 meals a day... Fuck the caffine, Ephedrine FTW!!!)

227 said:
Also, I like everything Chris posted under "Social Interaction." Not really very familiar with online multiplayer as a whole, but the thought of forming a team in a bar and then literally stabbing my new friends in the back (which I totally want to be possible; I think I mentioned it earlier in the thread somewhere that turning against friendlies for potentially greater rewards would be awesome) makes me happy. Hopefully something like that is possible, because I totally want to play with all of you.

That didn't come out right.
Click to expand...
No, we got the messege...
 
S

schiff

Rookie
#442
Sep 19, 2013
Designer5 said:
Then Cyberpunk.... sounds nice, the world offers so much potential and stuff, stories, development possibilities, you could get a garage, or be nomad, or what ever. But of course it is not an MMO! Blah. Sounds so old! We had single player games before internet! Single player games offer the same content for everyone. You have the stories and maybe couple of ways to play it through. But that is it.

In an MMO the possibilities are rather endless. Who gets to rule which suburban area? Who gets to rule the deserts? Imagine, the desert gangs would specialize in technologies that allow them to habit the desert. Then they get up few tanks and roll into the suburban area to fight. Or citizens go to the desert to some mission. There could be bases, vehicles, cybernetics, hackers, all kinds of things - and players could organize themselves and use what they get. You don't get to organize so much in a SP game. Organizing is part of the fun, namely the role Leader. You could still play as a solo in an MMO, but you could still be part of the outcomes that happen in the virtual world. An MMO is a virtual world, SP is more like just a game. No matter how good the story of a SP game is, it is not the same.
Click to expand...

Neocron 3 is still at works if that interests you.
It looks like nobody can really appreciate either simulation or "replayability" on their own. Still, both single and multi features are generally meant for achievers, explorers, socializers and killers basic player models and they all slightly differ in both branches, but it's true there's a lot of room for all kinds of players in this game seeing how mixed some aspects are. Hopefully they' ll make the most out of it.
 
D

designer5

Rookie
#443
Sep 19, 2013
ChrisWebb2020 said:
Much of what you are asking for by specifying your desire for 2077 to become an MMO can be provided through a combination of Single Player and Multiplayer, without the need to go as far as it being an MMO:
Click to expand...
Maybe, but SimCity Online is a SP / MP, but the MP part doesn't work very well. Even your own cities are not working clearly in sync, and no one comes to your area to build their city. Even the new UFO game had multiplayer feature, but it lacks, because at first it was buggy and there are not many other players there if any. And the MP play is just matches, nothing much more.

ChrisWebb2020 said:
Limitless Content:
I am yet to find an MMO that actually has limitless content. The vast majority of the content in MMO's is bland and repetative, you end up going to the same locations and doing the same things, maybe with different people. As Sard pointed out, this usually takes the form of grinding, (raids... yay... zzzzz.... oooh, I just need 200 goblin heads... how often do they spawn again?)
I can see a lot of conent being made available from the modding community, making their own missions, gear, clothing, locations, vehicles, weapons and even NPC's with sound packs that can provide a hell of a lot of new content. All of this can be done without even multiplayer. You can actually follow a deep and driven story that can branch in a multitude of directions. That is not really possible in an MMO, because everyone is playing the same story, (Hello rairoad ,my old friend!)
Click to expand...
Mods are nice to have, but the stuff to do should be in the game itself. Maybe randomly generated dungeons and random adventures would help. But I still don't understand why SP games are any better? Sure you can embed dialogs and cut scenes in SP games more easily... But I don't care about them that much, if the game is challenging in itself. In Wow the normal dungeon runs were great, but then later they started to be just huge hallways, more hallways, and oh look again hallways. But I liked the dungeon runs as there were clear PvE goals in them.

I don't like PvP arenas so much, because you keep dieing there all the time. The same thing is with hard PvE raids, you keep dieing all the time. I like more if the difficulty level raises steadily, so you can keep going even if it is challenging, but at least you don't bang your head against a wall for weeks. PlanetSide 2 PvP is different, because there is not so much of an arena than an open world to fight in. You can join a large zerg that is operated onto hot spots, and there is a lot of things to do even if you don't want to stand in the front line. PS2 also has many kinds of things to do, as there are couple of factions, many character classes, vehicles, and planes. PS2 has character progression, too, and it isn't too steep either. But yeah, there is not much of any story, no long term territory control, or any such thing. It is constant fighting over places.

ChrisWebb2020 said:
Territory Control/Property Ownership
In MMO's Territory Control is always linked to PvP. It also ends up being about who has a larger/better faction base in a given timezone. There are lots og games that work on this already, do we really need another one? (Oh, and I wouldn't bother refering to PS2 as it is an FPS, not an RPG.)
However, in a Single Player game you can still take territory and own property, but you wont get screwed over while your asleep.
Click to expand...
Right, but PS2 is an MMO. It has RP elements, though sure it is really just an FPS. But there Cyberpunk could have done better. In Cyberpunk you have guns too, so you can do FPS, then just add RPG to it, too.

In any case, I don't believe that Cyberpunk will have such gameplay as in the trailer. Nowadays games have almost realistic video feed as trailers, but then the actual gameplay is more or less different. You drool over the trailer, but while the actual game can look amazing thanks to modern graphics, it can't be as amazing as the trailer.

What comes to graphics, I liked Wow graphics, because they were fluid and had fluid animations. In many games the graphics are more like jerky photos, which really breaks immersion. Wow graphics are not high tech, but they are fluid. PS2 graphics are fluid too, the game responds fast, which is one reason I like it. Skyrim feels more stickier, though I have good computer and don't use ultra-settings.

ChrisWebb2020 said:
Social Interaction
Ok, Single Player games provide no social interaction at all. But there will be Multiplayer elements in 2077, (though they have yet to be identified.) I suggested having "communal area's" similar to the camps in Guild Wars. I think certain Bars and Clubs would be ideal for this. Have some of them act as black/grey markets where players can sell their loot or services while others act as meeting places where you can 'rent a room' to host an invitation only group. From these groups you could then form teams to go out and do missions co-operatively. Or how about dueling for money/loot or getting into pit fights?
This can easily solve any issues people have with a lack of social interaction.
Click to expand...
MP elements don't still make it an MMO.

ChrisWebb2020 said:
The Exception to the Rule
EVE Online breaks all the rules when it comes to MMO's. It is in a class of it's own. But then again, it also has a lot of rules that are all it's own. Ganking, Scamming and all sorts of other 'anti-social' behaviour are positively encouraged while other games would seek to prevent them. Also, the story - while rich, unique and intriguing - is barely important to the game and is largely ignored by the playerbase. This is because the player created content far out performs the actual content. What most people are interested in from expansions are the new toys, ship/module rebalances and maybe new locations to fuck everyone else over in.
The player driven economy is by far the most amazing feature of the entire game. My main characters net worth is about 30 - 40 billion isk, (though I haven't even bothered logging in for at least 4 months, so that should be more due to the battleship rebalancing...) damn I loved being an industrialist...
But overall, the storytelling side of the game sucks balls. The best way to actually get into the story is by reading the novels, (which are very well written.) I reccomend them to anyone and everyone.
Click to expand...
Right, I enjoyed Eve incursion runs, as they are kind of PvE "dungeons". The incursions are somewhat harder than normal Eve missions, and incursions require you joining a group of players. It is fun to climb the ladder to get into better and better groups, so you beat other players. One problem here is, that the incursions were totally repetitive grinding that eventually cause headache, wrist damage, and nausea. PvE should be exciting, but not such that you clickety clickety click as fast as you can for hours. There needs to be natural breaks, story, sceneries, exploring, etc throughout the runs. Wow dungeon runs were better in that, because you waited for a group (a natural break), you did a dungeon (explored if it was a new dungeon), and so. Randomness would increase exploring.

ChrisWebb2020 said:
I am all for a Cyberpunk 2020/2077 based MMO, but not at the expense of what CDPR have planned.
Click to expand...
Good. Well, I know already that there will be no Cyberpunk MMO this time.
 
U

username_3688833

Rookie
#444
Sep 19, 2013
I think there's a psychological aspect to the SP/MMO issue. People who demand multiplayer/MMO say they want to play with people. However, play seems to be best defined as "Murder them, have said murder increase my murderosity score/gear, and never forget to teabag that corpse" I'm sure it's a fun escape from that horrible world where social interaction doesn't involve regular duelling, but it's not for me. As someone who is still putting in 16 hour days trying to scrub away the remaining personality disorder that resulted (partly) from bullying in school, I have no desire to live in the Wild West that is every MMO. I've tried, and loved the mechanics of several games, but the people... *sigh*... Wanna talk about immersion being broken? Try visualising how people eat and work in WoW. How in the fuck do regular, non-heroic people even build their cities right in the middle of such massive mob-infested regions? How do they trade? HOW DO THEY FARM FOOD FFS???

*ahem* The reason why a CP2020 MMO would equal fail would be the cops. Your average MMO player, doing what they do, would be in gaol so fast it's not funny. So of course step one would be to nerf the cops, or let people have cheapass GTA respray shops or some crap. CYberpunk is all about consequences and struggle, not corpse teabagging*.


*Okay, so we've all done it once...
 
Garrison72

Garrison72

Mentor
#445
Sep 20, 2013
The only competitive online game I like is Street Fighter, where I get to curb stomp people with a pre-pubescent Japanese school girl. I'll take that in Cyberpunk.
 
Sardukhar

Sardukhar

Moderator
#446
Sep 20, 2013
slimgrin said:
The only competitive online game I like is Street Fighter, where I get to curb stomp people with a pre-pubescent Japanese school girl.
Click to expand...
This says..SO MUCH.
 
Mikedudeh

Mikedudeh

Rookie
#447
Sep 20, 2013
Single player + MMO = Tom Clancy's The Division.
 
chriswebb2020.736

chriswebb2020.736

Forum veteran
#448
Sep 20, 2013
Whisperfoot said:
Single player + MMO = Tom Clancy's The Division.
Click to expand...
...
An oxymoron (plural oxymora or oxymorons) (from Greek ὀξύμωρον, "sharp dull") is a figure of speech that combines contradictory terms.
Click to expand...
 
Mikedudeh

Mikedudeh

Rookie
#449
Sep 20, 2013
Ha ;) just trying to get people's attention. But that game does look to be the best of both worlds.

I can't think of a better way to simulate the multiplayer interaction of a pnp table than this, but if anyone else can ill listen. Though probably this will be handled internally as the "game" being GM and you, the world, and the npcs being the "players", while multiplayer just becomes some sort of icing on the cake. After all its not going to be so much a virtual pnp game as it will be deeper more realized videogame iteration of the CP universe.
 
chriswebb2020.736

chriswebb2020.736

Forum veteran
#450
Sep 20, 2013
Whisperfoot said:
Ha ;) just trying to get people's attention. But that game does look to be the best of both worlds.

I can't think of a better way to simulate the multiplayer interaction of a pnp table than this, but if anyone else can ill listen. Though probably this will be handled internally as the "game" being GM and you, the world, and the npcs being the "players", while multiplayer just becomes some sort of icing on the cake. After all its not going to be so much a virtual pnp game as it will be deeper more realized videogame iteration of the CP universe.
Click to expand...
That is true, but you lose so many story enhancing tools by going that route. For a start, environments cannot be changed. This is because everyone shares said environment. You can't destroy anything, like a car, building, bridge or wall, (unless you want it to respawn in a couple of minutes, which is really immersion breaking.) You can't have environmental elements, (such as adverts, NPC's and graffiti,) adapt to the current story stage. You can't have collidable players/vehicles because you will just end up with ridiculous choke points. You can't have an adaptive or variable arcing story, eveyone has to be railroaded through the whole story, regardless of the choices they would like to make. Finally, you cannot choose the manner in which you play the game; I realise that you can choose your class and combat style, but that is my point, you are forced to accept a combat based game. Many people wish to play as covertly as possible and others want to aim for as pacifistic an approach as possible.

By making a game massively multiplayer you lose a huge amount of potential individualisation. And in my eyes you just don't gain enough of anything beneficial to balance that out.
 
L

Lolssi83.811

Rookie
#451
Sep 20, 2013
ChrisWebb2020 said:
That is true, but you lose so many story enhancing tools by going that route. For a start, environments cannot be changed. This is because everyone shares said environment. You can't destroy anything, like a car, building, bridge or wall, (unless you want it to respawn in a couple of minutes, which is really immersion breaking.) You can't have environmental elements, (such as adverts, NPC's and graffiti,) adapt to the current story stage. You can't have collidable players/vehicles because you will just end up with ridiculous choke points. You can't have an adaptive or variable arcing story, eveyone has to be railroaded through the whole story, regardless of the choices they would like to make. Finally, you cannot choose the manner in which you play the game; I realise that you can choose your class and combat style, but that is my point, you are forced to accept a combat based game. Many people wish to play as covertly as possible and others want to aim for as pacifistic an approach as possible.

By making a game massively multiplayer you lose a huge amount of potential individualisation. And in my eyes you just don't gain enough of anything beneficial to balance that out.
Click to expand...
Well as I understand WoW had those phases in later expansions where the world changes after you for example freed a village. Sure it locks some people away from the same phase, but other people often are the most annoying thing in MMORPGs anyway ;)

Too bad not other MMOs have adapted that technic so much since it really helps the world actually feel somewhat alive. Defiance and Guild Wars 2have it to small extent.

Still doesn't help with immersion breakers like constantly spawning enemies, other people, mobs everywhere (how can anyone live in that world?), every other soldier, warrior, mercenary in the world being unable to do anything by themselves.
And let's not even get started with the horrendous quickbar combat that most MMORPGs have...
 
S

schiff

Rookie
#452
Sep 20, 2013
Lolssi83 said:
Well as I understand WoW had those phases in later expansions where the world changes after you for example freed a village. Sure it locks some people away from the same phase, but other people often are the most annoying thing in MMORPGs anyway ;)

Too bad not other MMOs have adapted that technic so much since it really helps the world actually feel somewhat alive. Defiance and Guild Wars 2have it to small extent.

Still doesn't help with immersion breakers like constantly spawning enemies, other people, mobs everywhere (how can anyone live in that world?), every other soldier, warrior, mercenary in the world being unable to do anything by themselves.
And let's not even get started with the horrendous quickbar combat that most MMORPGs have...
Click to expand...
That's more like questioning gameworlds themselves than questioning immersion and you could do that with every game. Stuff like loading screens are immersion breakers and you don't find many of them online. Death itself is an immersion breaker in every game, but in the spawning or suicide case it can even be a perfect mechanic balanced through a huge loss of hp and other side effects for fast travel needs. Not to mention a room for unconventional gameplay. Many arguments running the thread just seem to fit into open multiplayer though. Or a themepark vs sandbox /replayability vs simulation kind of thread, and how some online games are close to a sandbox experience. Might give scary ideas to PR guys
 
chriswebb2020.736

chriswebb2020.736

Forum veteran
#453
Sep 20, 2013
Lolssi83 said:
Well as I understand WoW had those phases in later expansions where the world changes after you for example freed a village. Sure it locks some people away from the same phase, but other people often are the most annoying thing in MMORPGs anyway ;)

Too bad not other MMOs have adapted that technic so much since it really helps the world actually feel somewhat alive. Defiance and Guild Wars 2have it to small extent.

Still doesn't help with immersion breakers like constantly spawning enemies, other people, mobs everywhere (how can anyone live in that world?), every other soldier, warrior, mercenary in the world being unable to do anything by themselves.
And let's not even get started with the horrendous quickbar combat that most MMORPGs have...
Click to expand...
Indeed, other people are often the most anying thing in MMO's, even more than grinding. I really don't want to end up watching a conversation between a bunch of 12 year olds insulting each others mom while I am trying to get into the Cyberpunk setting...
...but then there would probably be plenty of this on the BBS boards in the NET anyway...

Haven't played defiance and I only played the original Guild Wars. That did have an 'evolving environment' of sorts, though iot was still a railroad.

Single PLayer games will always have more personality that MMO's. That is an unescapable fact.
 
L

Lolssi83.811

Rookie
#454
Sep 20, 2013
Schiff said:
That's more like questioning gameworlds themselves than questioning immersion and you could do that with every game. Stuff like loading screens are immersion breakers and you don't find many of them online. Death itself is an immersion breaker in every game, but in the spawning or suicide case it can even be a perfect mechanic balanced through a huge loss of hp and other side effects for fast travel needs. Not to mention a room for unconventional gameplay. Many arguments running the thread just seem to fit into open multiplayer though. Or a themepark vs sandbox /replayability vs simulation kind of thread, and how some online games are close to a sandbox experience. Might give scary ideas to PR guys
Click to expand...
Yeah of course that is just my opinion not some universal truth :) But immersion and game world go hand in hand for me. Then again loading screens don't break immersion for me. I remember only three games where loading has been bother to me (if not counting every console game where you need to hit x and start 5 times before you even reach menu) , those were original Witcher (got patched), Mars: War Logs (aaaargh doors) and The Secret World still is painfully slow loading for me.
 
S

schiff

Rookie
#455
Sep 20, 2013
Ah, should' ve mentioned that's because loading screen stop the continuity. And i hear you about the secret world.
 
U

username_3688833

Rookie
#456
Sep 20, 2013
Immersion isn't the hugest priority for me, but having people who don't understand the setting, and can't string a sentence together talking all over the place, well...
 
S

schiff

Rookie
#457
Sep 21, 2013
That's like scratching the surface of your average mmorpg city. I used to play requiem bloodymare almost 6 years ago, people set up bukkake stages all the time
 
M

Mebrilia

Forum veteran
#458
Sep 21, 2013
MMo style in cyberpunk? No...

First: i like the idea of multyplayer if allow me to actually roleplay a character with other people... In a mmo al you see is people farming mob and do pvp with dialogue lines like ."Wow i powned the boss and i looted the scimitare herp derp +30 that's rare stuff" and this is very far from my meaning of roleplay a character...

Second: A nice idea to implement multyplayer in cyberpunk is a Coop mode that allows you to select who join your game...So a person like me can find a couple of person interested to actually roleplay a character in the envirovment instead of an happy farming and killing with OOC comments and stuff...If Cd project want makes the multyplayer similiar to a P&P game they have to allow a narrator mode with tools that permit him to possess npc create npc in world of game.... I am realistic and i don't think this will happen but if will... wow.... And that is way better than random generate quests talking in a multyplayer prospective....

The are people that just say no to multyplayer but they don't release how a coop if handled in a right way can be also much more awesome than a single player campaign... After all Cyberpunk was born like a pen and paper game...

The problem with Moo's is they attract the lower common denominator.... Powerplayers.... Beggers....Player killer... or just ordinary dumb idiots that loves to make cyberbully..

So in the end i am all for a nice Coop mode.... but NOT a cyberpunk Moorpg...
 
D

designer5

Rookie
#459
Sep 22, 2013
People are afraid of douchebags appearing in an MMO. Well, if you make it so that you can't save nor get ressurrected, then people will behave better.
 
Garrison72

Garrison72

Mentor
#460
Sep 22, 2013
I for one feel it'd be a waste of CDPR's talent.
 
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