My 2 cents on the MM meta thus far (rank 3)

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Guest 4404014

Guest
Right now meta seems to be in a state of confusion. People are trying out things on their own without the ability to netdeck lists tested by the best players. A few decks were published by a couple of youtubers but their authors either openly state that they are suboptimal or got it wrong (can't optimize a meta deck in a day). And lots of weird decks are going on right now. Here is some observations about the decks I played and encountered. It's all very subjective and debatable.


1. Wild Hunt. Seems broken. Its compactness, the ability to include it and still find room for the most successful MO strategies, seems overpowered. Many WH cards often provide overall value that is close to double of their provision cost. And due to weather control removal, there is no way to deny much of that value. It gets to 11 points/turn (6 from frost and 3 from 1p/turn engines and 2 from Beast). Weather is often criticized for low tempo but, hey, MO got plenty of 10+ plays. The only thing holding it back is lack of neutral tutorship which makes some of the MO plays inconsistent.

Imo should be nerfed a bit maybe. The 7pr veil engine is broken. It touches down outside 5p removal.


2. Symbiosis. Meme. At the moment playable as everyone tries to play devotion. But just you wait for Yrdens, Ignis, Triss: Lacerates, Regises, Lambert: Swordmasters to come back and make symbiosis auto-lose against any which neutral tech. This is imo the worst designed package in this expansion. Two reasons: 1) As opposed to Wild Hunt, it needs almost an entire deck of cards to support it, and though it does result in some very decent value when not answered, it leaves little room for control and utility. Nature cards, though given great value, fail to provide immediate protection against cheap answers and provide enough answers of their own. 2) It mixes up very tall plays (all the vitality and single target boost from Nature cards) and extremely short unprotected swarm engines (2p on touchdown and can do nothing about it, seriously?) which makes symbiosis susceptible to lots of different counterplays.

So: 1) It desperately needs new utility Nature cards. Can't live on Rebuke alone, and the 3 dmg 2 carryover one is cool but it doesn't help much. 2) The beefy dryad (3 tall, veil, symbiosis, 2 dmg) should either be changed to 4 provision + devotion or given some utility on the other row deploy. It's a useless as 5 for 5 as the engine aspect can be safely ignored (3 tall engines just aren't viable). 3) The echo card should be able to target multiple units. It's nothing but a beefed up Dryad's Carress/Tempering. 4) Order boosts like Miner are needed to give some protection for the Young Dryads. Or something like that.


3. Spies. Very strong as expected. But in truth it's same ol' NG bag o' tricks. Imo this package is a masterpiece. Exactly what NG fans appreciate and love. Exactly what NG haters hate. Hard to say what's op as it's very easy to form negative opinions of NG cards. Coup de Grace seems totally bonkers. But they say that about every second NG card.

EDIT: Spies are really great, and bring NG back to its rightful places as tier 1. Well replace things that suffered nerfs like poison spam.


4. Eternal Fire. Didn't play, didn't see. Looks bonkers.

EDIT: Did play, it's good.


5. SK warrior package. Seems meh to me. I see so many decks getting it wrong. Traditional Greatswords do better with ships/bears/pirates imo. But idk. That rupture dude is crazy, though. 7 tall with "destroy any unit if you got last say or the other guy has no purify on his last card which he never does." Bananas. But I prefer my good ol' Wild Boar, and I do need that Decree and the new Ragh in my SKGs.

EDIT: Wrong. New SK Gs is totally broken.


6. NR. I didn't keg any of that and didn't have enough scraps for that. Seemed strong when played against but similar to SK. Too much to give up.

EDIT: The greediest packages ever. I don't like it but many people will.


But like I said it's all speculation based on playing with and against under-optimized crazy decks. I would love to hear other opinions, though. Thx for reading
 
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I always love the time short after release, when netdecks aren't a thing. It's not in a state of "confusion". There just isn't a meta yet as everyone is trying things. Currently on a SK deck that is 18-0. Nothing crazy as I'm a low-ranked player, but I've never had that happen, not even in the beta days. The deck's really not that powerful though, but the "dominant" matchup I tend to see (Wild Hunt) happens to be a great matchup as it's a suicide deck. Also never had as many 2-0's as now.

The "rupture dude" is nice, but you can always shield it, and don't forget defender. Lots of veiled units now too. Tall removal has always been a thing.

But yeah, there's a LOT of Wild Hunt. Symbiosis seems average, because we're used to pre-patch harmony. Spies seems like most fun, though I'm obviously having fun with SK again (which seemed like ages ago).
 
I don’t have a lot of experience, but where I have observed the factions you discussed, I think you are right on.

1. As part of my SK quest, I needed to do a bunch of bleeding damage. So I through together a crappy monster deck where I took everything I had that bled or benefited from bleeding. I filled in with wild hunt frost spawners. Otherwise, I did nothing to particularly stimulate synergy. I should also say that I don’t collect monster cards, don’t usually play monster, and my deck was 36 points below the provision limit. It still played very well and totally dominated two symbiosis based decks. Symbiosis seemed hard to support an unable to keep up with other engines, while Wild Hunt cards seem to enhance anything.

2. I played against a very strong SY firesworn swarm deck with a pre-expansion, home-brewed SK deck that had been unbeaten. The match ended in a draw. I drew bad cards in round 1 and had to play on red card (which is generally bad for my deck), but I’m sure the opposing deck can and will be polished. My sense is that firesworn decks will be scary.

3. I have neither played nor faced NG.

4. Despite being Skellige main, I have not played a game yet with the expansion SK cards. To be honest, I findthem uninspiring, although that does not mean they are weak.

5. You are right that the NG evolving character is very weak — until combined with a card like Prince Anseis. And many of the other new NR cards are amazing. King Belohun has incredible synergy, unless countered, he generates massive points (especially with devotion), triggers Anna’s power, and moves numerous units outside easy removal range. Spawned volunteers enhance NR’s potential number of boosted units, and Kerack city guards are a cheap, easily triggered boost engine with other potential utility. I expect NR to move to the top of the meta with these cards.
 
As far as I can tell from Reddit the deal with Monsters is Ethereal Caranthir (kind of expected honestly)

Upgraded GS also seems rather powerful.

I assume Spies and Syndicate will probably contend a spot
 
I am new here but am very excited about my Firesworn/Crime deck and I have not encountered anything else similar so far. Only rank 16 right now, so definitely not playing against the top tier yet/ take this with a grain of salt. As a bit of background I tried the beta a long time ago, but did not enjoy it. Tried the game out again in mid June (10th or 11th) and am now obsessed.

I like to try and figure things out myself so I tried all the factions and got my first legendary for Syndicate and picked Whoreson out of him Eternal Flame and Helveed. So right away before I knew what was meta or anything about the expansion I wanted to make a deck like this. After looking at the upcoming expansion it obviously only helped increase my motivation to make a deck like this. Got pretty lucky with my kegs yesterday and got 7 legendaries in about 50-60 kegs, 2 being exact cards I was hoping for in Helveed and Ferko. (Also got Jacques, Harald, and Auberon so feeling very lucky atm). Crafted Ulrich and Echo Crime to complete my deck and have been testing it out, currently on a 5 game winstreak.

Takeaways so far:

Fallen knight is a ridiculous common card - double engine with veil, I tend to start with Ulrich - spawn fallen knight, play fallen knight, play congregation, and you're at 31 points in 3 turns and can continue ramping from there.

Have had some difficulty with Wild Hunt, but have been learning how to deal with it better

Was really looking forward to Lonely Champion but feels difficult to get good use out of him most of the time. Helps vs frost and helps establish dominance though.

Overall I am continuing to tweak and try out different combinations, but I feel like the basic backbone of Fallen Knights, Ulrich, Whoreson, Ferko, and the firesworn crimes can make a really good deck. I think it could be especially good against spies between Whoreson, excommunication, and even line of credit.

Current deck list here: https://www.playgwent.com/en/decks/guides/113572
 
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Guest 4404014

Guest
I made an error in assessment. The updated Greatswords are ultra powerful. Maybe broken. Many conditions the old Gs needed are no longer needed. Tier 1 deck, maybe,
 
Okay, so I've played a fair bit over the last few days.

First night everyone was playing MO Wild Hunt (Devotion) and NG usurper spy (devotion). From what I could tell they were strong. But I haven't encountered any thankfully back in Pro level yet.

From my experience these devotion decks have been given some extremely powerful cards to make up for a lack of neutrals.

NG spy usurper deck appears to be very strong, because Nilfgaard even without Leader Tactical Decision have an abundance of ways to thin and draw the cards they need:
Joachim
War Council
Isbel
Albrich
Roderick
Vicovaro Novice
Courier
Hunting Pack

I don't see the loss of neutrals being much of an issue at all.

Also I can tell you from experience, Lambert: Sword Master doesn't even make a dent on these new decks.

The 4 provision NG Mage Infiltrator has better removal. Which will no doubt become auto include in NG decks
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I made an error in assessment. The updated Greatswords are ultra powerful. Maybe broken. Many conditions the old Gs needed are no longer needed. Tier 1 deck, maybe,
Yup

I was shocked how CDPR seem to have just looked at the most popular decks, then crafted cards to specifically make them stronger.

And yet they nerfed Harmony so hard.

These new decks are still beatable, but you need a perfect draw, and even then they will run you close.
 
2 orens:

SK is hella broken. Veteran cards are super strong. Tutors everywhere. I've seen people tutor like 6 warriors at me, both from deck and graveyard, and they never even used Freya's blessings, lol. Super easy to set up the ship. Didn't even need a greatsword on the board and it wasn't close. Probably easy T1 in this swarm meta.

As expected, NG enslave 6 scum is back with the handy new tactic cards, seizing left and right and replaying tutors. Bribery [you'll see nothing but bronze - Slama] is as broken as ever. Not fun.

WH seems actually interesting with the unclearable weather. Can't say much because I haven't played it and haven't faced it too much. Just seems solid and actually... fair?

NR seems insane with all the boosty kings and order resetting and amphibious assault and the cheap engines. Probably T1 together with SK.

Symbiosis is weak, partly because the Echo card is confirmed trash, and partly because the new dryads just seem weaker than comparable new cards from other factions. Where NR and SK can plop their bronzes on the board and go do other things while the engines work, the Guardian requires you to play nature cards to generate +1 points. Probably going to give up trying to make it work and go back to Precision Strike control deck I've been using the last few seasons. Seems like it should be decent again. Maybe also try the freaking Forge. That armor could help against SK pings and weather a bit maybe, though tbh it's looking pretty grim for ST so far.

Haven't seen any firesworn decks yet.
 
Yeah I don't think people like the usurper deck.

I just made one for fun, and thought I was playing unranked.

Took it to Pro rank by accident, and my opponent in R1 was rope burning me, then switching his internet on an off. R1 took about 15+ minutes.

I just forfeited wasn't worth the hassle.
 

DRK3

Forum veteran
I think this time of trying out the new stuff is the best one, enjoy it while it lasts...

Because sooner or later, i predict players will understand some devotion cards arent worth the sacrifice and go back to use powerful neutral cards, as otherwise they dont have much tall removal or wide punishment.

I also think SK might be the strongest, regarding these new cards.
NG might be great but i havent seen them enough or optimized enough to make me think this yet.
MO is good, but pure WH decks are kinda weak, they still need some old MO staples to make them deadly.
ST seems really weak, the only control they have are those rebuke's, and they go really tall with hamadryads and aglais, and rowstack hard.
SY or NR i have barely seen yet to make judgements. I'll be trying NR extensively next.
 
SK really feels insane right now, not sure Greatswords really needed that much further support, feels like Tier 1 currently.

ST feels fun to play but isn't really strong and will probably vanish as soon as the Meta settles and become more of a Meme Deck.

Just started building a NR Deck it's actually not even that bad and fun to play.(against SK not so much, but i guess that goes for every other Faction currently) https://www.playgwent.com/en/decks/83ea4fa06fb78dd41cd082d68274810c
 
SK is still on my List to try but opponents SK- Warriors were really tough.

The Fireswarm is great but I guess I will be bored soon and a mixed deck should be better then the total swarm.

SC Symbiosis is a lot of fun but yes, as an all in engine spell deck it is vulnarable and lacks controll but still more points then Wild hunt if you play Gord and Oak as finishers. After I swaped some engines for the Poison package I'm up to Rank 2

Wild hunt is really cool and strong but surly not op.

Spyes I don't know. Lost one game with Symbiosis because I had no Room left, so I changed my game plan:smart:
not enough encounters and didn't tryed myself.
 

rrc

Forum veteran
I saw a couple of post somewhere which says that the entire PRO rank is swarmed with Second Wind GS players. It may be exaggeration, but that is not surprising. ST had been beaten to death and was given very weak options to compete. It will become like how it was before the double water nonsense.. the weakest of all factions. May be it is time to turn up "rrc fever" and fight for ST.. but I will wait for some time. I am trying out handbuff Dryads and having a lot of fun in Rank 3.. So this SK nonsense I haven't faced much. Mostly I am facing MO and I have no problem in dealing with MO.

Just checked my match history.. apparently I am facing more Usurper DoubleBall/Spy nonsense than MO.. and in Rank 3, ST Dryads are "not bad.. not bad at all.."
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I've been trying to handbuff Vigor, just because I need to complete Vigor contract at some freaking point, but Vigor is just so terrible, lol. I'm sure this handbuff would do (and will, once I'm sick of trying) a lot better with Precision strike, or even Forge.
 
Before the latest expansion I used to win like 60-75% of games, now I lose like 80-90% xD wtf, why are the new cards kicking ass so much!? :eek: always the same I get overrun in the 3rd round. :/ I play as Skellige mostly...
 

DRK3

Forum veteran
I've tried a few more decks.

I tried Ardal Tactics 6, and i even felt disgusted at how powerful that is. Note i hadnt used Ardal in over a year, when i did his Mastery Vigo's Muzzle was still a tactic and auto include.
But now with 2 Amnesties, Sweers and leader ability...
Im at a fairly low rank (7-6), but still, i managed to win twice 2-0, WITHOUT even using my leader ability!

And i've tried NR "Kerack pack". Its amazing. 7 unranked matches, 7 wins.
The Kerack frigate is the first bronze 2pt per turn engine, i guess svalblod priest can also be considered 2pt per turn, but goes tall while Kerack frigate goes wide, i prefer it that way.
The other Kerack bronzes are also pretty good, even managed to win a R3 where most of my golds stayed in deck, but i managed just with the power of these bronzes.
 
Gwent has never felt more draw dependent. I played Gwent in the 1st place bc it was more skill based than lucked based. Been playing ladder and games just feel like you win or don't win bc you ddnt draw something which is dumb if it keeps on happening like bomb heaver vs scenario for instance.
 
The game's just bad. It's turned completely into rock/paper/scissors and whatever passes for the matchmaking algorithm is just disgracefully poor.

How many games have you played, dear reader, where you've thought "typical, I've got row-locked units and they have movement" or "right, I'm putting Yrden/Igni/Geralt:pro in my deck" only to then face deck after deck of units that don't stack, don't boost, or don't have height? Or, vice versa, you've gone with an Arachas Queen deck and hey presto there's Yrden.

I took a 6 month break from the game, came back and honestly it's not changed bar more cards. I'm already forfeiting because I know what's coming in some matches and know I don't have an answer. It's hard to even stick around for a few more games, because what's the point in then building a deck with the answers the deck you've just faced, when you'll never face that type of deck again if you add the counters.

The game itself is set up with its big, glamorous cards to make you think "wow, let's use all these wild hunt units, that looks great" - then you play game after game where the Conqueror never gets into your hand, you don't draw the echo card 'til R3 and face deck after deck with locks/movement cards making the whole thing utterly redundant. A lot of the cards are about dominance - three games in a row I had opponents with tall cards, but not MO - from NG and ST!! I faced a NG deck and not only did they manage to then have the highest card on the board, they then used bribery to create Adda:Striga. There's just no point in playing the game.

Some of the cards are just stupid. Usurper:General is an unanswerable 11 points, played with Strategic Withdrawal is a 24 point play in one go. It's not even clever - it just happens with no answer. Why does it even have "zeal"?!

I look at it now and think "how the hell can ANY new player want to play this?" Down at levels 13/14 you're up against META decks, new players must absolutely loathe the experience.
 

Guest 4404014

Guest
And i've tried NR "Kerack pack". Its amazing. 7 unranked matches, 7 wins.
The Kerack frigate is the first bronze 2pt per turn engine, i guess svalblod priest can also be considered 2pt per turn, but goes tall while Kerack frigate goes wide, i prefer it that way.
The other Kerack bronzes are also pretty good, even managed to win a R3 where most of my golds stayed in deck, but i managed just with the power of these bronzes.

Yeah, NR is very good, especially if you stop being fixated on devotion. But I think meta has not crystallized yet to bring out the best in it. The whole process of meta emergence was interrupted and stalled by SK ridiculous brokenness.

I'm trying to get Draug working with Kerack package and the boosty bronzes. Amphibious is crazy good. Oneiromancy is great. But those provisions... Draug is too provision hungry, and there's hardly any room for 5 provision cards let alone 6... Anyone figured it out? I really want Draug to come back...

Gwent has never felt more draw dependent

Yeah, all rants welcome here https://forums.cdprojektred.com/ind...w-to-make-gwent-less-luck-dependent.11032247/

Power creep always results in more luck dependency. Power plays are getting more devastating so not being able to complete them or answer them because of the draw usually results in an auto-lose. But there's always Oneiromancy. This card is great, kinda revolutionizes the game in a way. SHould be cheaper though. Imo all tutors should be 2 provisions cheaper.
 
The game's just bad. It's turned completely into rock/paper/scissors and whatever passes for the matchmaking algorithm is just disgracefully poor.

How many games have you played, dear reader, where you've thought "typical, I've got row-locked units and they have movement" or "right, I'm putting Yrden/Igni/Geralt:pro in my deck" only to then face deck after deck of units that don't stack, don't boost, or don't have height? Or, vice versa, you've gone with an Arachas Queen deck and hey presto there's Yrden.

I took a 6 month break from the game, came back and honestly it's not changed bar more cards. I'm already forfeiting because I know what's coming in some matches and know I don't have an answer. It's hard to even stick around for a few more games, because what's the point in then building a deck with the answers the deck you've just faced, when you'll never face that type of deck again if you add the counters.

The game itself is set up with its big, glamorous cards to make you think "wow, let's use all these wild hunt units, that looks great" - then you play game after game where the Conqueror never gets into your hand, you don't draw the echo card 'til R3 and face deck after deck with locks/movement cards making the whole thing utterly redundant. A lot of the cards are about dominance - three games in a row I had opponents with tall cards, but not MO - from NG and ST!! I faced a NG deck and not only did they manage to then have the highest card on the board, they then used bribery to create Adda:Striga. There's just no point in playing the game.

Some of the cards are just stupid. Usurper:General is an unanswerable 11 points, played with Strategic Withdrawal is a 24 point play in one go. It's not even clever - it just happens with no answer. Why does it even have "zeal"?!

I look at it now and think "how the hell can ANY new player want to play this?" Down at levels 13/14 you're up against META decks, new players must absolutely loathe the experience.

Your post sums up things very accurately. It's no different in the pro ranks to be honest (I think I'm currently top 300, not sure). It's an absolute grind with little fun to be had.

One thing about being draw dependent. I'm not sure that is the case anymore. Well not if you have access to the new cards anyway...
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Yeah, NR is very good, especially if you stop being fixated on devotion. But I think meta has not crystallized yet to bring out the best in it. The whole process of meta emergence was interrupted and stalled by SK ridiculous brokenness.

I'm trying to get Draug working with Kerack package and the boosty bronzes. Amphibious is crazy good. Oneiromancy is great. But those provisions... Draug is too provision hungry, and there's hardly any room for 5 provision cards let alone 6... Anyone figured it out? I really want Draug to come back...



Yeah, all rants welcome here https://forums.cdprojektred.com/ind...w-to-make-gwent-less-luck-dependent.11032247/

Power creep always results in more luck dependency. Power plays are getting more devastating so not being able to complete them or answer them because of the draw usually results in an auto-lose. But there's always Oneiromancy. This card is great, kinda revolutionizes the game in a way. SHould be cheaper though. Imo all tutors should be 2 provisions cheaper.
I have to strongly disagree with you here.

I think there is way too much tutoring now since Master Mirror to the detriment of creativity. Everyone is just packing their deck with as many big plays as possible comfortable in the knowledge that they will get to play them out. No way should Oneiromancy be any cheaper.

It's already turned the game into legendary top trumps. i.e. pay to win
 
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