My biggest bother of this game [Spoilers]

[northwold]

I'll play...
Other games do it far better and far more intelligently.
W3: You are in Orchard for information - you don't leave until you follow the leads. Soon after that World opens up. So the tutorial area is locked, but for a believable amount of time and for a reason the protagonist has to remain there until leads exhausted.
No one , especially not me, said/say not having any missions at all until Diner - thats called a strawman.
Dragon Age O: You are locked in as following orders from origin area and after fight you have more open world. Very believable and has reasoning.
In fact not having watson locked at the start would be perfect time to do missions early and become a higher class runner before going against the big heist.

Urgency in games and you reference ME:3? LOL - fantastic. Please continue using the least respected of ME games as an example. With the ending near universally derided.
In ME:1, and ME2 you are hunting someone/investigating someone or a group. Information gathering with no ticking bomb except very very late in ME:1 and ME2.
BUT - the reasoning its not a huge huge rush - its investigating/finding. in theory in ME:3 is, lorewise the Reapers take centuries/millenia to do their purge. They dont have the numbers to attack all places at once and hence methodically cut areas off and cleanse. Then rinse and repeat. But the game, for artificial purposes, makes the invasion occur near simultaneous all over the galaxy. Not exactly great writing.
Witcher 3: You are not told Ciri is in imminent danger as in right away. In danger - sure. But it is vague - a dream to begin. And you are looking for/ and her her hunters too, are going after someone who can teleport - so much like ME1/ME2 you are following her trail and gathering information. Obstentially to let ms teleporter know you are trying to find her.
As you progress you learn more about the danger and its nature and stakes heighten but at no point is it gonna happen immediately. Just look at assault at Kaer Morhen - would take weeks at minimum for those people to reach Kaer Morhen.

All Geralt has in the beginning is a "dream" symbolizing danger. Then learn a little bit more and little bit more over time. But again for a teleporting person,

Geralt was stupidly told you have three weeks to find her and then player go off and do horseracing. (or ride to Tousaunt)

Post automatically merged: May 24, 2021

Other open world games do the initial lockdown far far far better and give the player reason. Besides magical barrier the police erect
DA:O
DA:I
DA2
W3
FO series
Baldurs gate/BG2
Elder Scrolls series

I'd point out that some people think the Witcher 3's opening is plain bad among large games. I found it so dull I just dropped the game twice. It gave me absolutely no desire to carry on: the world was lifeless, generic and dour. I only picked it up a third time because the game was so absurdly well regarded that I felt I must be missing something.

I think Cyberpunk handles its introduction far far better, progressively opening up the world and, importantly, making clear that there IS a world to open up.

More generally, responding to a number of comments here, I do wonder if people have simply never played large games with choice of quest order before, or have defective memories. In every game in which this is allowed, you end up with situations that require a suspension of disbelief. That is the deal. I left Panam waiting for me in a car for a week -- I hope she had something nice to read. Likewise, in countless games I have left urgent tasks undone for weeks on end because there was something more interesting to do.

I think some minor tweaks could have been made to the central urgency of CP because clearly it has encouraged too many people to rush the game, which ruins the experience. In particular, I think it would have been an idea to frame V's condition as dangerous but not necessarily an imminent threat, using the point of no return as the moment to say "OK, now you really are in trouble and need to focus on this". But beyond that suspension of disbelief is a requirement if players want freedom to play as they like unless they want a dramatically inert narrative.

If people can't cope with that they should play linear games or watch movies.

 

[Czembro]

You do realize that you don't have to complete every single sidequest or gig in the game, right?
If you feel like 100%-ing the game demolishes the integrity of the main quest, then to as many sidequests as you think it's appropriate. You're the one who gets to decide how, when or if you're gonna do it.
I've played TW3 more than 10 times and in all but 2 playthroughs I've ignored about 90% of side content. Not because it's bad (quite the opposite), but because it doesn't make any sense for Geralt to waste too much time on it.

Thing is it could have been so easily remedied in CP77 it's just baffling that CDPR apparently haven't even thought about that. If they would just not close Watson and let player move freely around NC from the get go and just make Jackie do something similar to Caius Cosades in TES III: Morrowind e.g. "let's do some gigs, but come back to me later, I might have something bigger for us to take care of" it would not only make much more sense for Dex to want to hire V and Jackie, as we would be able to already get some SC, but also will improve the immersion tremendously and won't force player to choose between staying reasonable in the face of presented intrigue or exploring, learning about the world and actually roleplaying a mercenary for hire.

Post automatically merged: May 26, 2021

I'd point out that some people think the Witcher 3's opening is plain bad among large games. I found it so dull I just dropped the game twice. It gave me absolutely no desire to carry on: the world was lifeless, generic and dour. I only picked it up a third time because the game was so absurdly well regarded that I felt I must be missing something.

I think Cyberpunk handles its introduction far far better, progressively opening up the world and, importantly, making clear that there IS a world to open up.

More generally, responding to a number of comments here, I do wonder if people have simply never played large games with choice of quest order before, or have defective memories. In every game in which this is allowed, you end up with situations that require a suspension of disbelief. That is the deal. I left Panam waiting for me in a car for a week -- I hope she had something nice to read. Likewise, in countless games I have left urgent tasks undone for weeks on end because there was something more interesting to do.

I think some minor tweaks could have been made to the central urgency of CP because clearly it has encouraged too many people to rush the game, which ruins the experience. In particular, I think it would have been an idea to frame V's condition as dangerous but not necessarily an imminent threat, using the point of no return as the moment to say "OK, now you really are in trouble and need to focus on this". But beyond that suspension of disbelief is a requirement if players want freedom to play as they like unless they want a dramatically inert narrative.

If people can't cope with that they should play linear games or watch movies.

CP77 just doesn't handle this at all. Not only it throws at player a specific timeframe (which is of course just an illusion), creating the feeling of urgency, but also doesn't let you go with the side content after finishing the game, because there is no time when V is not dying, as after finishing the game player is sent back to the point of no return, as if the ending never happened, Johnny is still with us, relic attacks are still happening, so there is still this feel of urgency as V is constantly in the near death state.

Let's take a look at Skyrim - not only did MQ doesn't really kicks off the whole end-of-the-world thing till like 7th quest with whole world being opened for player after finishing the first one, there are at least three points where it's absolutely ok to abandon MQ for a while (Bleak Falls Barrow, The Horn of Jurgen Windcaller, meeting with Delphine in Kynesgrove). What's more, if actually roleplaying without using fast travel and stuff, MQ sends player from one corner of the province to the other with plenty of opportunities to do some SQ on the way. All of this is missing in CP77.

You wonder if people have simply never played large games with choice of quest order before, or have defective memories? The answer is neither. Other games just do this sort of things far better and actually gives player some room to roleplay their own way. If CDPR wanted to handle CP77's story the way they did, they shouldn't make it an open world game and just stick to much more linear experience.

 

[Ayinde_Palmer]

No they don't. They could say "I don't like it". If we're going to play the it's a creative work and highly open to interpretation card then it goes both ways.

That depends on what you mean by premise. At the start of the game I'd say the central themes are all about starting over, perfecting a craft to reach the top of the pecking order and legacy. As soon as that relic enters the picture, Johnny pops into existence and V is diagnosed with a 2 week expiration date the central theme shifts to survival. Conceptually all of those areas were fine and well done. How the game got there is what is being questioned.

First of all, the "there is no story" commentary is pointless. Here is a thought. Tell a different story. It's the CP setting. There is no shortage of options. And yes, I am questioning the entire foundation of the game narrative.

Arasaka isn't some a collection of Tiger Claws, Scavs or a random job in Watson. They're an extremely powerful megacorporation. You don't mess with an extremely powerful megacorporation as V, Jackie, Dex, Evelyn and Tbug do and screw it up or get caught with your hand in the cookie jar. If you screw it up the best outcome to reasonably expect is looking over your shoulder for the rest of your days. The more likely outcome to expect is you die.

Yes, all those podunk jobs involve risk. Every breathing second in NC involves risk. The difference is they don't involve a fixer clearly out to screw you, a doll greatly overextending herself, a best bud with blinders on because "big leagues" and a job where the most likely outcome for failure is ending up in a ditch. It's a jungle. There are no laws in the jungle. Mercs don't get ahead by walking into a kill box while being completely oblivious to it. They get ahead by seeing all the angles.

Dex was going to screw over V no matter what. That's what my thought was following the car conversation. My fixer is going to stab me in the back. Again, this is why he picked up two unknowns from the street to spearhead the mission. The idea was to pop back into the picture because a big job landed in his lap, pick up two throwaways knowing full well it's likely to go south, most are going to die getting the relic out then have them bring it to him and clean up loose ends.

What Dex didn't account for was the extent of the fallout because of the way it went south. He didn't account for Takemura. It was abundantly clear Takemura wasn't to be fucked with .

Well, apparently CDPR was content to revisit this issue with CP. It would appear it's a common issue with open world games. There isn't enough consideration placed into whether the narrative chosen fits with the open world elements.

When I say the reader has to accept the premise, I don't mean they are required by law, i mean in order to enjoy any work of fiction, the reader has to choose to go along with the story. its a literary concept called the willing suspension of disbelief.

Basically, when it comes to critique, its kind of pointless to reject something at its premise. If someone hands you the script for terminator, but you are like this story isn't believable, you should write something like star trek, it just means you were never going to engage with their script. Its just not for you.

spoiler for my perspective on some story points

Spoiler

Its still unknown really if dex was going to screw over V no matter what. He never actually attempts to get the relic, and if you tell him you don't have it, he says good. If you say you do he never tries to get it from you. He also tells you when he thinks he is killing you, that its because he doesn't want to die. He has no particular reason to lie at that point. The reality is V was never supposed to be detected, no one signed up for a hot war with arasaka. V was a huge danger to everyone involved at that point, and although its clear dex made the wrong choice, it was not unreasonable. V literally has a high speed chase leading directly to his fixer's door. my point is its clear that dex wasn't ride or die for V. But we have no evidence to suggest he was going to kill V if everything went well.

The other factor is this was already stolen merchandise. Yorinobu would have had reason to cover up its theft. And if saburo found out, it wouldn't be believable that yorinobu was robbed while robbing. Vdbs, and likely Evelyn and dex were aware of this. We ourselves should be aware of this due to yorinobu's conversation with Hellman in the BD. There is a possibility if they were undetected.

it is true that attacking Arasaka is a big long term risk. However the payoff was huge. By all descriptions, the expectation is that a successful version of this mission would make all 5 participants rich for life.

By premise I mean, what the writer would say is the primary conflict/idea driving the story. In terminator, I would say the premise is, a woman being hunted by forces from the future, to stop what she will do eventually. The premise of friends would be a group of amusing 20 something friends lives in a big city. If you reject an idea at its premise. There isn't really much to say. You just don't have interest in what the creator is trying to present.

In an action story, there is ultimately only two choices, the main character is either someone who accepts the call to action, or it is forced upon them. Because if the protagonist does neither, you won't have an action story. A character who avoids risk, is probably not going to be the center of a Pondsmith cyberpunk story.

The Edge is that nebulous zone where risk-takers and high rollers go. On the Edge, you'll risk your cash, your rep, even your life on something as vague as a principle or a big score. As a Cyberpunk, you want to be the action, start the rebellion, light the fire. Join great causes and fight for big issues. Never drive slow when you can drive fast. Throw yourself up against danger and take it head on. Never play it too safe. Stay committed to the Edge.

excerpt from cyberpunk red

not to say there are no other stories or people in that world, but for the initial piece of work, with this source material, it's likely that the writers would have the protagonist choosing the risk rather than it being forced upon them.

Maybe an "edgerunner" doesn't trust dex, is planning to betray him, threaten him, or kill him if he looks at them funny, but they would probably accept the gig, Expecting that if it goes sideways they will adapt and thrive.

By no means am I saying you have to like it, but the writers aren't wrong for telling this type of story.

 

[northwold]

Thing is it could have been so easily remedied in CP77 it's just baffling that CDPR apparently haven't even thought about that. If they would just not close Watson and let player move freely around NC from the get go and just make Jackie do something similar to Caius Cosades in TES III: Morrowind e.g. "let's do some gigs, but come back to me later, I might have something bigger for us to take care of" it would not only make much more sense for Dex to want to hire V and Jackie, as we would be able to already get some SC, but also will improve the immersion tremendously and won't force player to choose between staying reasonable in the face of presented intrigue or exploring, learning about the world and actually roleplaying a mercenary for hire.

Post automatically merged: May 26, 2021

CP77 just doesn't handle this at all. Not only it throws at player a specific timeframe (which is of course just an illusion), creating the feeling of urgency, but also doesn't let you go with the side content after finishing the game, because there is no time when V is not dying, as after finishing the game player is sent back to the point of no return, as if the ending never happened, Johnny is still with us, relic attacks are still happening, so there is still this feel of urgency as V is constantly in the near death state.

Let's take a look at Skyrim - not only did MQ doesn't really kicks off the whole end-of-the-world thing till like 7th quest with whole world being opened for player after finishing the first one, there are at least three points where it's absolutely ok to abandon MQ for a while (Bleak Falls Barrow, The Horn of Jurgen Windcaller, meeting with Delphine in Kynesgrove). What's more, if actually roleplaying without using fast travel and stuff, MQ sends player from one corner of the province to the other with plenty of opportunities to do some SQ on the way. All of this is missing in CP77.

You wonder if people have simply never played large games with choice of quest order before, or have defective memories? The answer is neither. Other games just do this sort of things far better and actually gives player some room to roleplay their own way. If CDPR wanted to handle CP77's story the way they did, they shouldn't make it an open world game and just stick to much more linear experience.

Skyrim's main quest is utterly awful and you may well have identified one of the reasons why! In story content terms, it holds no interest from the outset (the story itself feels like it was written on the back of a napkin, the quality of the dialogue is very, very poor and the characters have as much depth as pieces of cardboard), and in terms of story structure it just feels like one random task after another (although in Skyrim it really doesn't help that Bethesda seemed not to realise they were asking the player to sympathise with racists).

Not without reason Elder Scrolls reviews tend to warn players that the main quests are not where the fun is.

 

[Czembro]

Skyrim's main quest is utterly awful and you may well have identified one of the reasons why! In story terms, it holds no interest from the outset (although in Skyrim it really doesn't help that Bethesda seemed not to realise they were asking the player to sympathise with racists).

We aren't talking about the writing, but how well the MQ works with open world design. Skyrim do this a miles better than CP77.

 

[northwold]

We aren't talking about the writing, but how well the MQ works with open world design. Skyrim do this a miles better than CP77.

I think it works structurally better. At the expense of the main quest in Skyrim being, in online parlance, utter trash (in my opinion, of course). Personally, I do not like that "compromise". I want a good story and i had rather suspend disbelief to get it. But it's horses for courses.

 

[Didacgomez]

But i don't really see the disconnection/sense of doom/urgency. I mean you can probably reach in 20-30 hours of playtime the point of no return with only two options in the rooftop which is like 10 Vs days. If you do side content,you reach it in double/triple time maybe-i reached in 90 hours with all endings available, with plenty of gigs and ncpd hustles and without using fast travelling-? Doesn't seem that much disconnection from Vik diagnosis from V point of view (and as far as I remember Vik never tells you:"i've booked on your outlook xx-yy-2077 because you will be busy dying").

 

[Ayinde_Palmer]

We aren't talking about the writing, but how well the MQ works with open world design. Skyrim do this a miles better than CP77.

actually id say the goal is different. In Skyrim the stories exist as an aspect of the open world.


In cyberpunk the open world exists to serve the story.

in cyberpunk the open world reinforces the narrative and allows a player who seeks to, to better develop the character of V and and understand the world V lives in. It is, in my opinion very successful at it. Cyberpunk 2077's world/nc is an important charachter. And V's motivations, understandings, relationships and way of unfurling the narratives are very open for this type of game.

Post automatically merged: May 26, 2021

But i don't really see the disconnection/sense of doom/urgency. I mean you can probably reach in 20-30 hours of playtime the point of no return with only two options in the rooftop which is like 10 Vs days. If you do side content,you reach it in double/triple time maybe-i reached in 90 hours with all endings available, with plenty of gigs and ncpd hustles and without using fast travelling-? Doesn't seem that much disconnection from Vik diagnosis from V point of view (and as far as I remember Vik never tells you:"i've booked on your outlook xx-yy-2077 because you will be busy dying").

yea, the game also gives you various time breaks to pursue side quests/gigs. Also I would say the narrative lets the player choose how to handle it. If a player wants to not waste time that often, they can use a multi playthrough style. I did this initially. My first V mostly did gigs in Watson and kabuki, didnt do every side quest, and ended the game around 34ish. 2nd V ignored a lot of things I did previously and did different content.

Vik is definitely vague, he says he is guessing, He is also a pessimist, he doesn't actually believe V has a chance, though he hopes he succeeds, and wants V to fight his damndest. (evidence of this in emails to other clients, and when he talks about watching reruns of the fight). The devs on stream also said the time is purposefully vague, so the player chooses the level of urgency.

I think because its a game, player sense of time is abstract. often times in rpgs 40 hours is months. in this game, 40 hours is 14 days.

 

[northwold]

actually id say the goal is different. In Skyrim the stories exist as an aspect of the open world.


In cyberpunk the open world exists to serve the story.

in cyberpunk the open world reinforces the narrative and allows a player who seeks to, to better develop the character of V and and understand the world V lives in. It is, in my opinion very successful at it. Cyberpunk 2077's world/nc is an important charachter. And V's motivations, understandings, relationships and way of unfurling the narratives are very open for this type of game.

Post automatically merged: May 26, 2021

yea, the game also gives you various time breaks to pursue side quests/gigs. Also I would say the narrative lets the player choose how to handle it. If a player wants to not waste time that often, they can use a multi playthrough style. I did this initially. My first V mostly did gigs in Watson and kabuki, didnt do every side quest, and ended the game around 34ish. 2nd V ignored a lot of things I did previously and did different content.

Vik is definitely vague, he says he is guessing, He is also a pessimist, he doesn't actually believe V has a chance, though he hopes he succeeds, and wants V to fight his damndest. (evidence of this in emails to other clients, and when he talks about watching reruns of the fight). The devs on stream also said the time is purposefully vague, so the player chooses the level of urgency.

I think because its a game, player sense of time is abstract. often times in rpgs 40 hours is months. in this game, 40 hours is 14 days.

I agree with the point about the world design in CP: a huge amount of the detail revolves around the story themes, and all the side quests, pretty much, amplify those themes. I don't think I've ever seen a (non-linear) game aim for such a degree of narrative coherence.

A distinct point is that one of those narrative themes is mortality. This *isn't* Skyrim, where you walk in and know the world will be saved because it's an Elder Scrolls game and if all else fails they'll make up some kind of weird God to swoop in in the last scene and wrap up the plot neatly because [insert random prophecy with silly name here]. It is a game one of the primary preoccupations of which is the transience of life. And if you want to run with that theme and create a satisfying narrative work, then there really needs to be something at stake for the central character.

 

[Czembro]

actually id say the goal is different. In Skyrim the stories exist as an aspect of the open world.


In cyberpunk the open world exists to serve the story.

in cyberpunk the open world reinforces the narrative and allows a player who seeks to, to better develop the character of V and and understand the world V lives in. It is, in my opinion very successful at it. Cyberpunk 2077's world/nc is an important charachter. And V's motivations, understandings, relationships and way of unfurling the narratives are very open for this type of game.

Post automatically merged: May 26, 2021

Yes, you're right, which is exactly why CP77 fails in delivering an believable open world - it doesn't really "exist" outside of the story as it is only for the purpose of serving it. That's why majority of players sees the world of CP77 as dead empty. Open world, by design, should be able to stood on it's own. This is exactly why CP77 doesn't really do anything correctly - it's world is meaningles without the story it means to serve, the story literally stands against exploring and embracing the world.

 

[LeKill3rFou]

Maybe I'm ignorant but I don't see how the open world is a failure in Cyberpunk (compared to other games).
In most open worlds, it's always the same, a map to explore, loots, enemies to kill and it stops there (for me, once the story is over, the open world often seems "empty" regardless of the game).
Playing with the police was good, with friends to turn the controller.
Playing cards, going to a movie and playing golf (or others "activites" like that) is not really interesting for me.
In the end, I could say that it actually lacks some "dungeons" and some radom quest givers/hidden quests... for all the rest, it's just filling the world to make the game appear longer (and it doesn't work for me).

 

[Ayinde_Palmer]

Yes, you're right, which is exactly why CP77 fails in delivering an believable open world - it doesn't really "exist" outside of the story as it is only for the purpose of serving it. That's why majority of players sees the world of CP77 as dead empty. Open world, by design, should be able to stood on it's own. This is exactly why CP77 doesn't really do anything correctly - it's world is meaningles without the story it means to serve, the story literally stands against exploring and embracing the world.

open world, by design is not necessarily supposed to stand on its own. Thats a sandbox.

Open world means the method of gaming is not linear and heavily guided. CP is using an open world to tell a story, not just the main narrative, but about the type of world CP is, and how people live in this world. Also, not just a narrative story, but a character story. Freedom is extremely important for this story, because what you experience in this game is all about what/how the char/player chooses to engage.

Its incorrect that the story stands against exploring. Cyberpunk is punk, The antagonist, (society), wants V to not explore, but the narrative rewards a V who rebels against fate and the world, with more fulfilling gameplay, relationships, content, resources, and endings. A "punk" mentality rejects the idea the best path in life is listening to the people in power, or believing everything you hear. Doing what you want is a high ideal.

the relic countdown and people using that to influence you simulates that pressure to conform that is hard to achieve in a game with infinite retries, and no hunger/starvation/death/pain.

The narrative of cyberpunk suggests going against your true desires, just to live longer/easier is not fulfilling, and may not even allow you to live longer. People will use that desire to trap you into an unfullfilling life that primarily benefits them.


essentially many people's complaint is you have to rebel against doing what people tell you to truly enjoy the game, but thats what the game is trying illustrate, by letting the player experience the results.

 

[Guest 3847602]

Thing is it could have been so easily remedied in CP77 it's just baffling that CDPR apparently haven't even thought about that. If they would just not close Watson and let player move freely around NC from the get go and just make Jackie do something similar to Caius Cosades in TES III: Morrowind e.g. "let's do some gigs, but come back to me later, I might have something bigger for us to take care of" it would not only make much more sense for Dex to want to hire V and Jackie, as we would be able to already get some SC, but also will improve the immersion tremendously and won't force player to choose between staying reasonable in the face of presented intrigue or exploring, learning about the world and actually roleplaying a mercenary for hire.

I thought the reason for Dex to hire V and Jackie was precisely because they're relatively inexperienced (so they'd be more agreeable to his proposition), cheap and unlikely to be recognized by someone at Konpeki Plaza.
Besides, is necessity to complete "The Heist" before the whole city opens up really such a big deal?
If you want to rush with main quest, you can get to "Playing for Time" in 3-4 hours.
If you want side content, Watson is the largest district in NC and you can spend about 10 hours doing sidequests before you meet Jackie in front of Megabuilding H10.

 

[bcraig6010]

I'd point out that some people think the Witcher 3's opening is plain bad among large games. I found it so dull I just dropped the game twice. It gave me absolutely no desire to carry on: the world was lifeless, generic and dour. I only picked it up a third time because the game was so absurdly well regarded that I felt I must be missing something.

I think Cyberpunk handles its introduction far far better, progressively opening up the world and, importantly, making clear that there IS a world to open up.

More generally, responding to a number of comments here, I do wonder if people have simply never played large games with choice of quest order before, or have defective memories. In every game in which this is allowed, you end up with situations that require a suspension of disbelief. That is the deal. I left Panam waiting for me in a car for a week -- I hope she had something nice to read. Likewise, in countless games I have left urgent tasks undone for weeks on end because there was something more interesting to do.

I think some minor tweaks could have been made to the central urgency of CP because clearly it has encouraged too many people to rush the game, which ruins the experience. In particular, I think it would have been an idea to frame V's condition as dangerous but not necessarily an imminent threat, using the point of no return as the moment to say "OK, now you really are in trouble and need to focus on this". But beyond that suspension of disbelief is a requirement if players want freedom to play as they like unless they want a dramatically inert narrative.

If people can't cope with that they should play linear games or watch movies.

"If people can't cope with that they should play linear games or watch movies."
"I do wonder if people have simply never played large games with choice of quest order before, or have defective memories."

Well.. there is always some suspension of disbelief in a fiction - as the things they are writing about don't exist. They key is how much. And to help you out as you responded to me with stick with linear games or ever played large games with choices.. I'll include a key to translate my examples.

In ME:1, and ME2 you are hunting someone/investigating someone or a group. Information gathering with no ticking bomb except very very late in ME:1 and ME2.
ME1 = Mass Effect. You after the initial mission where you are betrayed and get reasons to not trust the rogue agent get a ship and can travel around to many planets as well as key world to follow the main story tracking the baddie. Not many complain about story/gameplay dissonance or difficulty in suspension of disbelief
ME2 = Mass Effect 2: After your regeneration/return you get a ship to begin your search for information for the mysterious group that is belived to jump from a one way jump point and may have reaper connection. Not many complain about story/gameplay dissonance or difficulty in suspension of disbelief
((Mass Effect 3 I pretend it doesnt exist as the story is bad.. the artificial invasion everywhere is dumb creating a ticking clock that doesnt justify doing dumb missions everywhere.. and that ending.. no no no no no))
DA:O = Dragon Age Origins: That's the game I was referencing when you have to follow another person as you are essentially volunteered by circumstances into a military order and following orders. After big battle the world opens up. Not many complain about story/gameplay dissonance or difficulty in suspension of disbelief
DA:I = Dragon Age inquisition = decent but not one of my favs. But again a RPG with an open world. Not many complain about story/gameplay dissonance or difficulty in suspension of disbelief

DA2 = Dragon Age 2. The open world was smaller encompassing a city and nearby environs. Not many complain about story/gameplay dissonance or difficulty in suspension of disbelief. They got criticized for rushing it out and reuse of assets.

W3 = Witcher 3's opening is plain bad? Not even going to debate you. If you think W3's opening is "plain bad" that your taste and standards and my eyes are roiling of of my head over here.

FO series = Fallout Games = there are 5. Fallout 1 - 4 and Fallout New Vegas. All 5 Fallout games are RPG's or at least RPG light where you have a starting area then immediately can jump into the open world. None, except Fallout 4 get a lot of criticism for story. Fallout 4 did receive criticism as huh... people criticized the huge - hurry find your kid then immediately have you building settlements and settlements are in danger for ages. That and the story was... weak. Except for Fallout 4 - Not many complain about story/gameplay dissonance or difficulty in suspension of disbelief

Baldurs gate/BG2 - Baldurs Gate and Baldurs gate 2. Very open-esque world in the second - regions to which you go and very much open world/region in the original. Because Minsc and Boo are ready. Not many complain about story/gameplay dissonance or difficulty in suspension of disbelief

Elder Scrolls series - Open world games with a min quest. They all accomplish this. While skyrims main quest is ehhhhh.. weak... people seem to like the game. Not many complain about story/gameplay dissonance or difficulty in suspension of disbelief

I could add a few like Planescape Torment or Final Fantasy games but I think MOST RPGs in the past have not made the idiotic mistakes CP2077 has

"If people can't cope with that they should play linear games or watch movies."
Some of us can cope - just some of us have STANDARDS - as we have played and enjoyed the games on the list above who did their stories (with exceptions) and their story and open world convergence - far, far better.

There are strawmen arguments around every corner.. lets be careful and not step in any.

 

[magnusmc]

Then tell me oh wise one...when in that first heist why didn't the relic function on Jackie? He was dying and the chip did nothing for him? These are the huge inconsistencies with the storyline and this game...smart people aren't fooled by the BS.

 

[Ayinde_Palmer]

Then tell me oh wise one...when in that first heist why didn't the relic function on Jackie? He was dying and the chip did nothing for him? These are the huge inconsistencies with the storyline and this game...smart people aren't fooled by the BS.

the game says the chip only normally activates upon death. It also says it has never actually worked properly before. V is shot in the head, and the chip and his brain took signifigant damage. His circumstances were unusual and miraculous.

based on hellman, and the relic information shard, the relic was never succesful on living subjects or subjects close to death, on subjects that were dead, it shows initial activity then quickly fails.

So, in order for jackie to have a chance, it would need to be activated after he dies. Even then, without a headwound to the brain, and some damage to the chip, it still might not have worked.

 

[Nunnek]

Then tell me oh wise one...when in that first heist why didn't the relic function on Jackie? He was dying and the chip did nothing for him? These are the huge inconsistencies with the storyline and this game...smart people aren't fooled by the BS.

People still dont understand the whole chip working on V situation. Maybe CDPR made the story too complex at parts ? I understood it first time i played but i seen many ppl still confused by it

 

[AikoHayashi]

People still dont understand the whole chip working on V situation. Maybe CDPR made the story too complex at parts ? I understood it first time i played but i seen many ppl still confused by it

A lot of people just use skip dialogue options even when they play a game for the first time Helman gave a clear explanation.

 

[northwold]

A lot of people just use skip dialogue options even when they play a game for the first time Helman gave a clear explanation.

I'm struggling to think of a worse game to skip dialogue on. I mean, it's kind of the whole point!!

 

[Didacgomez]

People still dont understand the whole chip working on V situation. Maybe CDPR made the story too complex at parts ? I understood it first time i played but i seen many ppl still confused by it

A lot of people just use skip dialogue options even when they play a game for the first time Helman gave a clear explanation.

I'm struggling to think of a worse game to skip dialogue on. I mean, it's kind of the whole point!!

I bet a coffee that many also complain of too much info in shards.