Well its at the very least special as usually the game ends with the death, this game beginns with your death. So instead of game over your are dead, its game beginns your are dead.
Yes, that changes a lot of history in the video game, i love it. The character played who dies right at the beginning, it must be admitted that it is not trivial
Come to think of it, that doesn't change a lot of history either
Everything is beautiful at the beginning, an event that changes everything, you have to fight to find what you lost.
Except that unlike many games, in CP you play the "Everything is beautiful" part just before the event that changes everything (a bit as if in RDR2, you could play before Black Water).
This is what keeps this game in a weird place for me where I haven't launched it since the week it came out, but I still check out these forums every now and then. I'd love to want to play this game.
My biggest bother with the game is that most of the perks are either useless or unnecessary. The story itself isn't a bad story, but I don't think it's a good story for an open world. I really dislike that the story creates a sense of urgency that doesn't actually exist, and if I want to remain immersed in the story, I have to just plow through the main story content. As soon as I start deviating from that, I'm no longer playing the role of V,
What bothered me the most with the Relic is how they rushed the first 6months.
Had we have like 10hours or more with Jacky, doing low-life jobs would've made the story a bit better.
Like, let's say the open world were a bit more fleshed out, you'd spend the first bit of the game freely in Night City, boosting your street cred, until Dex' calls you "shit Choom! We're in the big League", it would've been like an achievement (if they would'nt spoil it straight away too...).
You'd begin the game like "Hey I'm free and having fun" and then you'd really feel screwed by the Relic.
The story as it is, feels a bit rushed on that side, it's like, "Well ok, I'll just get along with it", it lacks weight (death of jackie, 6months to live etc...), It's thrown at you after a few hours.
What bothered me the most with the Relic is how they rushed the first 6months.
Had we have like 10hours or more with Jacky, doing low-life jobs would've made the story a bit better.
Like, let's say the open world were a bit more fleshed out, you'd spend the first bit of the game freely in Night City, boosting your street cred, until Dex' calls you "shit Choom! We're in the big League", it would've been like an achievement (if they would'nt spoil it straight away too...).
You'd begin the game like "Hey I'm free and having fun" and then you'd really feel screwed by the Relic.
The story as it is, feels a bit rushed on that side, it's like, "Well ok, I'll just get along with it", it lacks weight (death of jackie, 6months to live etc...), It's thrown at you after a few hours.
I don't actually agree with that because the time you spend with Jackie would quickly devolve into treading water waiting to get to the main plot, and while I'm sure some players have an interest in playing around at little crime jobs with someone who is, to all intents and purposes, a complete nobody, there are other players to whom that is simply not interesting (me included) and who want a proper narrative arc. There would be nothing in the opening that would make me interested enough to keep playing.
Personally, I like Jackie, but he's not exactly the most interesting character in the game. He's there to be your mate and your introduction, to hold your hand while you learn how to fire a gun and jump on things, do just enough for you to get fond of him, and then to disappear. His inherent averageness would become a problem if you had to engage in meaningless quests with him for a protracted period of time.
What I did think could have benefited from more shaping is how the Act 2 story threads overlap and develop. I thought the use of the Voodoo Boys as a menacing unseen force was fantastic, for example, but the manner of their despatch so perfunctory as to be almost insulting. The balance between the different strands of Act 2 didn't feel quite right to pull the main relic story along.
My biggest bother with the game is that most of the perks are either useless or unnecessary. The story itself isn't a bad story, but I don't think it's a good story for an open world. I really dislike that the story creates a sense of urgency that doesn't actually exist, and if I want to remain immersed in the story, I have to just plow through the main story content. As soon as I start deviating from that, I'm no longer playing the role of V,
V is not a defined person. There are reasons why certain versions of V wouldn't rush the MQ. No solution V is offered is anything but a gamble.
The story is designed that the V who chooses to live life, while trying to survive feels more fulfilled than the onewho only focuses on survival. Thats not an accident, its kinda the point.
at the end of the day, death is not avoidable, once you realize that, the question is how, and why did you live. They wanted you to feel that pressure, pushing you to the obvious/least fulfilling path. To master that fear, and live an entertaining life in spite of it. Thats not to say don't try to live, but do it your way.
That said, that's not something people understand easily, and it goes against some of the paradigms of human life, to search for stability, take the beaten path, that if you do the recommended thing, you will be rewarded.
Rebelling, facing insurmountable odds, and doing it your own way is one of the big ideas of Pondsmith's cyberpunk.
I don't actually agree with that because the time you spend with Jackie would quickly devolve into treading water waiting to get to the main plot, and while I'm sure some players have an interest in playing around at little crime jobs with someone who is, to all intents and purposes, a complete nobody, there are other players to whom that is simply not interesting (me included) and who want a proper narrative arc. There would be nothing in the opening that would make me interested enough to keep playing.
Personally, I like Jackie, but he's not exactly the most interesting character in the game. He's there to be your mate and your introduction, to hold your hand while you learn how to fire a gun and jump on things, do just enough for you to get fond of him, and then to disappear. His inherent averageness would become a problem if you had to engage in meaningless quests with him for a protracted period of time.
What I did think could have benefited from more shaping is how the Act 2 story threads overlap and develop. I thought the use of the Voodoo Boys as a menacing unseen force was fantastic, for example, but the manner of their despatch so perfunctory as to be almost insulting. The balance between the different strands of Act 2 didn't feel quite right to pull the main relic story along.
ehh, Jackie isn't actually that average, he lights up the shitfest that is NC and makes people feel hope, like they could make a difference, or change things for themselves. Which in NC is super rare. People are attracted to him, and want to see him succeed. He takes V out the gutter, gives him a home/job/etc. He is also probably fairly capable as a solo.
If done well, the time spent with Jackie could have been excellent.
however, this isn't that game. This game is mostly about crawling from the gutter with nothing in a world that tries to destroy you every day. With death around the corner.
And if they let you live the dream with Jackie longer, the focus changes, also the fall might be too hard for players to want to keep playing. Imagine you spend 20 hours with this guy, building up to a great success, putting in work, having a blast, maybe a romance(t bug?). then he dies, your dreams die, t-bug dies, reputations done. I think even more people would rage at the story's pessimism.
And if they let you live the dream with Jackie longer, the focus changes, also the fall might be too hard for players to want to keep playing. Imagine you spend 20 hours with this guy, building up to a great success, putting in work, having a blast, maybe a romance(t bug?). then he dies, your dreams die, t-bug dies, reputations done. I think even more people would rage at the story's pessimism.
It's hard to find the right balance, and I think CDPR has done that quite well.
- Not enough time/missions with Jackie : his death would have been just an "insignificant" moment. A little bit like Evelyn's death. Which touches me mostly because of Judy.
- Too much time/missions with Jackie : his death could be real "dramatical" moment. As if Panam would die in The Star ending or Judy would die in one last mission after Pyramid Sond.
V is not a defined person. There are reasons why certain versions of V wouldn't rush the MQ. No solution V is offered is anything but a gamble.
The story is designed that the V who chooses to live life, while trying to survive feels more fulfilled than the onewho only focuses on survival. Thats not an accident, its kinda the point.
at the end of the day, death is not avoidable, once you realize that, the question is how, and why did you live. They wanted you to feel that pressure, pushing you to the obvious/least fulfilling path. To master that fear, and live an entertaining life in spite of it. Thats not to say don't try to live, but do it your way.
That said, that's not something people understand easily, and it goes against some of the paradigms of human life, to search for stability, take the beaten path, that if you do the recommended thing, you will be rewarded.
Rebelling, facing insurmountable odds, and doing it your own way is one of the big ideas of Pondsmith's cyberpunk.
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ehh, Jackie isn't actually that average, he lights up the shitfest that is NC and makes people feel hope, like they could make a difference, or change things for themselves. Which in NC is super rare. People are attracted to him, and want to see him succeed. He takes V out the gutter, gives him a home/job/etc. He is also probably fairly capable as a solo.
If done well, the time spent with Jackie could have been excellent.
however, this isn't that game. This game is mostly about crawling from the gutter with nothing in a world that tries to destroy you every day. With death around the corner.
And if they let you live the dream with Jackie longer, the focus changes, also the fall might be too hard for players to want to keep playing. Imagine you spend 20 hours with this guy, building up to a great success, putting in work, having a blast, maybe a romance(t bug?). then he dies, your dreams die, t-bug dies, reputations done. I think even more people would rage at the story's pessimism.
Well yes, in part, I agree. If you run with Jackie, you have a different game. And it's a game many people might be interested in playing. But I certainly wouldn't. It sounds a bit like GTA with softer people. It's a serious tonal shift that has no commonality with the driving themes of the rest of the work.
What bothers me the most about the game is the false sense of urgency. It just sucks the life out of the game.
Main character is dying, he is really short on time, but you are supposed to ignore that, do crazy quests and have fun. It throws any sense of urgency and immersion out of the window.
Also, Johnny takes the main focus of the story shortly after. You don't even get any time to invest in your character. Everything has to be about Johhny, main character is just a vessel for him. You either agree with Johnny and do what he says, or you don't get a decent ending. And that decent ending isn't really decent at all. No matter what you do same thing happens, bad ending means it happens sooner and supposedly "good" ending means it happens just a bit later. Nothing you do changes the outcome and in the end it all leaves you with a sense of dread, wondering why you even bothered, what was the point of it all?
Lastly my biggest beef with the game is the placebo intellectual, downright forced endings. Like I said, it is supposed to be an RPG game, but nothing you do actually changes the outcome.
Yes when I saw one of the life path clips that insinuated they might be going that way my instinctive thought was "you cannot be serious that would involve developing three entire games".
3 games using the same world, assets, music, much similar voice-acting, same lighting/camera-work and general animations. In reality it would be 1 + 1/4 + 1/4 -game, or in other words, only 1.5 times bigger size. Most added content would be the script-writing, added dialogue-choices, and so on.
What bothers me the most about the game is the false sense of urgency. It just sucks the life out of the game.
Main character is dying, he is really short on time, but you are supposed to ignore that, do crazy quests and have fun. It throws any sense of urgency and immersion out of the window.
Also, Johnny takes the main focus of the story shortly after. You don't even get any time to invest in your character. Everything has to be about Johhny, main character is just a vessel for him. You either agree with Johnny and do what he says, or you don't get a decent ending. And that decent ending isn't really decent at all. No matter what you do same thing happens, bad ending means it happens sooner and supposedly "good" ending means it happens just a bit later. Nothing you do changes the outcome and in the end it all leaves you with a sense of dread, wondering why you even bothered, what was the point of it all?
Lastly my biggest beef with the game is the placebo intellectual, downright forced endings. Like I said, it is supposed to be an RPG game, but nothing you do actually changes the outcome.
Johnny is only main focus if you choose to work with him. You don't need to be friends with Johhny at all to get Star ending, which is seen as the best ending.
the difference between all the endings is how you live.
one ending you you become a nomad wandering the Land with your family, looking for adventure, helping the clan grow, and looking for a cure.
another ending you become leader of the NC mercenaries, pulling off near impossible feats, while pursuing a cure.
another ending you become property of Arasaka corp, waiting for them to use the solution they have developed for you.
another ending, v goes into netspace and Johnny lives again remembering the person who jumped in front the bullet allowing him to live again.
these are all very different endings. And before you say it. V doesn't die in any ending. V's long term survival is unknown in all endings. The easiest is probably Arasaka, who just needs to find or create a suitable host.
In my opinion what they could have done, is that regardless of how you exit the heist itself (either fail or succeed) that in the end Jackie still just dies, by Adam Smashers doing for instance, and slots in the Relic in your head and that the Relic simply start malfunctioning simply because its removed and reslotted 'wrongly'. After all, its a stolen Saburo Arasaka commisioned chip that could very easily have been made to function in a specific way and we just did it wrong, that and the fact it experimental.
Then make a two stage situation, where you start seeing Johnny. But at first its just that he's activated. But not considered life treatening.
The first missions are more build around trying to find a way to get him out, that would not change. V simply want him gone.
However somewhere along the way (preferably just before the Embers conversation) the relic starts overwriting your brain because of prologued exposure (or what have you) and then the act 3 part can still remain being that rush. But during act 2 you're not pressured to rush through because the story says so.
I think this would be a adequate change that would not need an entire overhaul but fix the issue of the ticking clock up to the actual end of the game (As is currently).
The game is railroaded to hell, there is no denying it.
Personally, I don't think that making heist possible to succeed would be a good idea. The game needs a story, there need to be some stakes, some motivation for the player. What bothers me is rather that there is only one way to get to the end of the story (which, BTW, is in complete opposition to what CDPR was telling about game's story before the release). We should be able to get either Sun or Star ending without ever working with Takemura, meeting Hanako, etc. We should be able to deny any help from Arasaka or it's associates, and just try to find a solution on our own.
The game is railroaded to hell, there is no denying it.
Personally, I don't think that making heist possible to succeed would be a good idea. The game needs a story, there need to be some stakes, some motivation for the player. What bothers me is rather that there is only one way to get to the end of the story (which, BTW, is in complete opposition to what CDPR was telling about game's story before the release). We should be able to get either Sun or Star ending without ever working with Takemura, meeting Hanako, etc. We should be able to deny any help from Arasaka or it's associates, and just try to find a solution on our own.
I'm broadly comfortable with Arasaka being a core line because it is about a highly experimental Arasaka chip that no one outside the company even knew existed. I think I would find it far-fetched for anyone else just to happen to know how to deal with it.
I mean, can you imagine Judy, for instance, coming up with "oh, yeah, I make softcore porn for a living and little robots in my spare time, but, hey, SURPRISE, I also moonlight as a world-leading fully sentient bleeding edge microchip implant engineer."
It would end up being ridiculous or, alternatively, V would just have to die.
I'm broadly comfortable with Arasaka being a core line because it is about a highly experimental Arasaka chip that no one outside the company even knew existed. I think I would find it far-fetched for anyone else just to happen to know how to deal with it.
I mean, can you imagine Judy, for instance, coming up with "oh, yeah, I make softcore porn for a living and little robots in my spare time, but, hey, SURPRISE, I also moonlight as a world-leading fully sentient bleeding edge microchip implant engineer."
It would end up being ridiculous or, alternatively, V would just have to die.
Well, we are getting to Alt without any help from Arasaka, and she is literally the creator of Soulkiller, which was used to create Johnny's engram. I think she is more than competent to help V with chip problem.
You are kinda creating a nonsensical argument with Judy, and then easily debunk it because it's, well... nonsensical, while ignoring the pretty obvious alternative route that the story could take.
Well, we are getting to Alt without any help from Arasaka, and she is literally the creator of Soulkiller, which was used to create Johnny's engram. I think she is more than competent to help V with chip problem.
You are kinda creating a nonsensical argument with Judy, and then easily debunk it because it's, well... nonsensical, while ignoring the pretty obvious alternative route that the story could take.
In my opinion what they could have done, is that regardless of how you exit the heist itself (either fail or succeed) that in the end Jackie still just dies, by Adam Smashers doing for instance, and slots in the Relic in your head and that the Relic simply start malfunctioning simply because its removed and reslotted 'wrongly'. After all, its a stolen Saburo Arasaka commisioned chip that could very easily have been made to function in a specific way and we just did it wrong, that and the fact it experimental.
Then make a two stage situation, where you start seeing Johnny. But at first its just that he's activated. But not considered life treatening.
The first missions are more build around trying to find a way to get him out, that would not change. V simply want him gone.
However somewhere along the way (preferably just before the Embers conversation) the relic starts overwriting your brain because of prologued exposure (or what have you) and then the act 3 part can still remain being that rush. But during act 2 you're not pressured to rush through because the story says so.
I think this would be a adequate change that would not need an entire overhaul but fix the issue of the ticking clock up to the actual end of the game (As is currently).
I agree they could solve it in this way. But I think the main reason they added the clock is because they wanted to create the tension, desperation, and make the player face death (regular game death creates no tension because we can reload saves, etc)
the primary premise of the game is what would you do when death comes knocking. The problem is that most player's answer is nothing except things people tell me might make me survive. Also players think like players, and look for objectives, and signs on the proper way to win the game. They are also used to npcs telling universal truths, not opinions or perspectives.
However, I think the message/intent and drama is worth it. Going to see Judy while takamura is calling you adds weight and purpose to those meetings. Jumping in the water while you could get a relic malfunction shows trust, and a willingness to risk for this person. Likewise your own death looming may give an added dimension to helping a random civilian. V says, in one of the iterations of the mikoshi ending, that they just want to live and enjoy every moment they have. Thats a possible response the narrative is trying to create for V.
That said, its not the only way a V can take it, and for some people the devil ending is the only way things can be. Trapped railroaded, a feeling of no options, bitter and cursing the world. The player brings a lot to this game. Thats its genius imo.
But Alt's Soulkiller is the reason they are able to put Johnny on the chip. The story could easily diverge to either go with Arasaka, meet with Hanako, etc. or to completely ditch them and find Voodoo Boys and Alt. V will probably still end up in Arasaka Tower to access Mikoshi, but working with Takemura, parade, meeting Hanako isn't really necessary for it to happen. I mean, if you chose either Sun or Star ending, everything you did with Takemura doesn't really matter, so why force it on player? When I played CP77 I thought the conversation with Takemura in the diner was some sort of crossroads, where you can choose to either go with Takemura's plan and find Hellman or to go with investigating Evelyn's part in the heist. I don't understand why we need to complete both roads to get to the ending, other than that probably from CDPR's perspective only one would make the story too short, but it's on them for creating such a brief storyline, and artificially prolonging it isn't really helping here.
But Alt's Soulkiller is the reason they are able to put Johnny on the chip. The story could easily diverge to either go with Arasaka, meet with Hanako, etc. or to completely ditch them and find Voodoo Boys and Alt. V will probably still end up in Arasaka Tower to access Mikoshi, but working with Takemura, parade, meeting Hanako isn't really necessary for it to happen. I mean, if you chose either Sun or Star ending, everything you did with Takemura doesn't really matter, so why force it on player? When I played CP77 I thought the conversation with Takemura in the diner was some sort of crossroads, where you can choose to either go with Takemura's plan and find Hellman or to go with investigating Evelyn's part in the heist. I don't understand why we need to complete both roads to get to the ending, other than that probably from CDPR's perspective only one would make the story too short, but it's on them for creating such a brief storyline, and artificially prolonging it isn't really helping here.
So this is a point that I in part strongly agree with you about. I don't think the sequencing of the Evelyn and Hellman aspects works. Because they run separately, even though they are meant to be part of the same story, the arc doesn't cohere. It especially doesn't cohere if you play a lot of the non main story quests in between.
The Act 2 structure - - and the effect of different play styles on how it lands on the player - - needed more thought.
