My biggest bother of this game [Spoilers]

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Then tell me oh wise one...when in that first heist why didn't the relic function on Jackie? He was dying and the chip did nothing for him? These are the huge inconsistencies with the storyline and this game...smart people aren't fooled by the BS.
I'll humor you with an explanation.
In order for the chip to start uploading the engram to take over the body, the host (jackie) must have been dead. I believe they used synaptic function to be precise.
The core difference between Jackie and V, and thus why the relic didn't initiate anything, is for the time Jackie had it slotted, he was never dead, just badly wounded.
The chip was removed from jackie by himself before his life got extinguished moments later.
With V, she was 'fine' up until Dex shot him/her in the head and only then, after having died, the relic started to do what it does.
This is the core of it.
 
I'll humor you with an explanation.
In order for the chip to start uploading the engram to take over the body, the host (jackie) must have been dead. I believe they used synaptic function to be precise.
The core difference between Jackie and V, and thus why the relic didn't initiate anything, is for the time Jackie had it slotted, he was never dead, just badly wounded.
The chip was removed from jackie by himself before his life got extinguished moments later.
With V, she was 'fine' up until Dex shot him/her in the head and only then, after having died, the relic started to do what it does.
This is the core of it.
But till that moment the whole effect of the relic upon corpses is wide open. If CDPR had decided to make Jackie the Johnny zombie they could have rewritten the relic that even near death triggers it.
 
When I say the reader has to accept the premise, I don't mean they are required by law, i mean in order to enjoy any work of fiction, the reader has to choose to go along with the story. its a literary concept called the willing suspension of disbelief.

Basically, when it comes to critique, its kind of pointless to reject something at its premise. If someone hands you the script for terminator, but you are like this story isn't believable, you should write something like star trek, it just means you were never going to engage with their script. Its just not for you.
Suspension of disbelief is when you're in Middle Earth and there are Elves, Dwarves, Orcs and Goblins. It shouldn't be "The singularity is about to explode". My dislike of the CP narrative has nothing to do with suspending disbelief. A merc blindly walking into a very troubling set of circumstances via surrounding themselves with poor decision making, both in terms of choices by those around them and their own, is believable. It's also how up and coming mercs end up in a ditch and remain as relatively unknowns.

My critique isn't about the premise of the story. So you're two for two. In isolation the concepts of the Heist, the relic, all of the characters, and even V were not the disappointment. The criticism is directed at the execution.
In an action story, there is ultimately only two choices, the main character is either someone who accepts the call to action, or it is forced upon them. Because if the protagonist does neither, you won't have an action story. A character who avoids risk, is probably not going to be the center of a Pondsmith cyberpunk story.
Three for three. All risk isn't created equal. There is a fine line between "this is worth the risk" and "this is stupid". An edgerunner would willingly take on risk. It goes with the territory and job description. A successful one wouldn't engage in stupidity.
Its still unknown really if dex was going to screw over V no matter what. He never actually attempts to get the relic, and if you tell him you don't have it, he says good. If you say you do he never tries to get it from you. He also tells you when he thinks he is killing you, that its because he doesn't want to die. He has no particular reason to lie at that point. The reality is V was never supposed to be detected, no one signed up for a hot war with arasaka. V was a huge danger to everyone involved at that point, and although its clear dex made the wrong choice, it was not unreasonable. V literally has a high speed chase leading directly to his fixer's door. my point is its clear that dex wasn't ride or die for V. But we have no evidence to suggest he was going to kill V if everything went well.
No evidence? Were you paying attention? The game tosses a lot of little pieces of information in there foreshadowing the result of the Heist (drink names/blaze of glory, Evelyn convo, Dex convos, Judy commentary, etc.). It was all ambigious, yes. But if they were trying to frustrate with ambiguity then they didn't get everyone.
Besides, is necessity to complete "The Heist" before the whole city opens up really such a big deal?
Well, consider this.... The moment the world in CP opens up is the same point you are made aware your character has an extremely short expiration date. So when the game says "travel around, see the world, experience all the things" it also says "you're dying in two weeks if you don't fix this problem". Think about that for a minute or two.

Someone mentioned it would have fit better if "travel around, see the world, experience all the things" came up before the Heist. To me it's an astute observation. Instead of dropping extreme urgency on the player for most of the game, and right at the point when you're telling them to explore the world, delay it. First, offer an opportunity to explore the world. Then drop the urgency on them. It makes for much better pacing and logical consistency. It also offers validation for V performing the Heist in the first place. Instead of a 6 month montage, two jobs (Dorsett + Spider Bot) and a conversation with a doll in a club.

This is what I mean when I say games with strong narratives and open world often completely ignore getting the pairing right. Urgency in a story within such a game is fine if it's placed in the right time and place. The urgency vs open world conflict only comes up when this is not done properly. If you actually put more thought into what the hell you're doing and trying to achieve, and construct the game accordingly, this would be a far smaller issue.
I'm struggling to think of a worse game to skip dialogue on. I mean, it's kind of the whole point!!
Well, it's clear from various pieces of information the idea there was to be as inclusive as possible. Some people play "RPG's" like they're pure action games. Dialogue? Who needs it? And when enough money enters the equation, as is always the case, the goalposts shift from "commitment to quality" to "maximize sales as much as possible while minimizing costs as much as possible". Expand your audience to include everyone to do the former and cut corners left and right, while saying one thing and doing another, to do the latter.

Sadly, what ends up happening is the experience gets watered down for all involved....
 

Guest 3847602

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Someone mentioned it would have fit better if "travel around, see the world, experience all the things" came up before the Heist. To me it's an astute observation. Instead of dropping extreme urgency on the player for most of the game, and right at the point when you're telling them to explore the world, delay it. First, offer an opportunity to explore the world. Then drop the urgency on them. It makes for much better pacing and logical consistency. It also offers validation for V performing the Heist in the first place. Instead of a 6 month montage, two jobs (Dorsett + Spider Bot) and a conversation with a doll in a club.

This is what I mean when I say games with strong narratives and open world often completely ignore getting the pairing right. Urgency in a story within such a game is fine if it's placed in the right time and place. The urgency vs open world conflict only comes up when this is not done properly. If you actually put more thought into what the hell you're doing and trying to achieve, and construct the game accordingly, this would be a far smaller issue.
I don't think this method works in story-focused games. Stories need drama and drama needs to be established early. Goals of our protagonist needs to be made clear as early as possible, too. The method you mentioned would maybe work if the story of Cyberpunk was "rags to riches" with twist in the last act pertaining the heist and Arasaka biochip. But, that wasn't the story they wanted to tell.
Someone brought up ME1 and DA:O.
Mass Effect's galaxy map doesn't open up until you are aware of the threat Saren and return of the Reapers pose to the rest of the galaxy. Drama first, exploration later.
In Dragon Age Origins, map of Thedas opens up after you learn about the Archdemon and imminent danger from darkspawn. Drama first, exploration later.
Or TW3 - you don't get to explore Velen and Skellige before you're informed about Ciri and the Wild Hunt.
 
I don't think this method works in story-focused games. Stories need drama and drama needs to be established early. Goals of our protagonist needs to be made clear as early as possible, too. The method you mentioned would maybe work if the story of Cyberpunk was "rags to riches" with twist in the last act pertaining the heist and Arasaka biochip. But, that wasn't the story they wanted to tell.
Someone brought up ME1 and DA:O.
Mass Effect's galaxy map doesn't open up until you are aware of the threat Saren and return of the Reapers pose to the rest of the galaxy. Drama first, exploration later.
In Dragon Age Origins, map of Thedas opens up after you learn about the Archdemon and imminent danger from darkspawn. Drama first, exploration later.
Or TW3 - you don't get to explore Velen and Skellige before you're informed about Ciri and the Wild Hunt.

But we do have the 'drama' part, without the need for the chip. Need to learn to survive - at least for 2 of the 3 origins (doesn't quite work with the streetkid, but that's what writers are for:) ).
As for the ME and dragon age - if I remember correctly, they didn't have the amount of side quests CP77 have.

....all in all I like the main quest, but I think the game would have been so much better if the 6month were playable, which would allow us to be a mercs. But its too late now - I can only hope that they will go with more relaxed type of story for the expansions (or at least 1 of them).
The night City they have created deserves it!
 
Suspension of disbelief is when you're in Middle Earth and there are Elves, Dwarves, Orcs and Goblins. It shouldn't be "The singularity is about to explode". My dislike of the CP narrative has nothing to do with suspending disbelief. A merc blindly walking into a very troubling set of circumstances via surrounding themselves with poor decision making, both in terms of choices by those around them and their own, is believable. It's also how up and coming mercs end up in a ditch and remain as relatively unknowns.

My critique isn't about the premise of the story. So you're two for two. In isolation the concepts of the Heist, the relic, all of the characters, and even V were not the disappointment. The criticism is directed at the execution.

Three for three. All risk isn't created equal. There is a fine line between "this is worth the risk" and "this is stupid". An edgerunner would willingly take on risk. It goes with the territory and job description. A successful one wouldn't engage in stupidity.

No evidence? Were you paying attention? The game tosses a lot of little pieces of information in there foreshadowing the result of the Heist (drink names/blaze of glory, Evelyn convo, Dex convos, Judy commentary, etc.). It was all ambigious, yes. But if they were trying to frustrate with ambiguity then they didn't get everyone.

Well, consider this.... The moment the world in CP opens up is the same point you are made aware your character has an extremely short expiration date. So when the game says "travel around, see the world, experience all the things" it also says "you're dying in two weeks if you don't fix this problem". Think about that for a minute or two.

Someone mentioned it would have fit better if "travel around, see the world, experience all the things" came up before the Heist. To me it's an astute observation. Instead of dropping extreme urgency on the player for most of the game, and right at the point when you're telling them to explore the world, delay it. First, offer an opportunity to explore the world. Then drop the urgency on them. It makes for much better pacing and logical consistency. It also offers validation for V performing the Heist in the first place. Instead of a 6 month montage, two jobs (Dorsett + Spider Bot) and a conversation with a doll in a club.

This is what I mean when I say games with strong narratives and open world often completely ignore getting the pairing right. Urgency in a story within such a game is fine if it's placed in the right time and place. The urgency vs open world conflict only comes up when this is not done properly. If you actually put more thought into what the hell you're doing and trying to achieve, and construct the game accordingly, this would be a far smaller issue.

Well, it's clear from various pieces of information the idea there was to be as inclusive as possible. Some people play "RPG's" like they're pure action games. Dialogue? Who needs it? And when enough money enters the equation, as is always the case, the goalposts shift from "commitment to quality" to "maximize sales as much as possible while minimizing costs as much as possible". Expand your audience to include everyone to do the former and cut corners left and right, while saying one thing and doing another, to do the latter.

Sadly, what ends up happening is the experience gets watered down for all involved....

In an action based fiction, willing suspension of disbelief involves people even engaging at all. Like wise a horror movie. Willing suspension of disbelief isnt only for fantasy fiction.

And you said you are in fact rejecting the whole story concept.
First of all, the "there is no story" commentary is pointless. Here is a thought. Tell a different story. It's the CP setting. There is no shortage of options. And yes, I am questioning the entire foundation of the game narrative.

this is infact rejecting the premise. If cdprojekt says hey i have a game, it all starts when a young hungry group of mercs tries to rob a megacorporation, and then you say thats dumb no one would ever do that, write a new story You are rejectng the premise.

This is in fact not an unrealistic premise, big heists happen periodically, some few even get away with it. But i accept that to you, its unnatural, however if you are not willing to accept thats your starting point, then it will be impossible for you to enjoy this work of fiction. You have to agree to go along with a story(to engage with it). If i can't believe a rich guy would ever train a team of super heroes, there is no point in reading an Xmen comic, And giving critiques on that basis, is kind of pointless. because the premise is not an error, a mistake, or a mishandling. You are just telling people you have no interest in the thing they want to make, not how to improve it, Or flaws.


And i wasnt debating whether there is foreshadowing that something could go wrong in or around the heist, clearly they were seeding numerous possible problems. (in any heist thats the main drama) I was saying, Dex shows no direct signs he would murder you if things dont go wrong. I'm not saying its impossible, but rather there is no evidence, such that no one would reasonably attempt to work with him for tens of millions of dollars.
 
I don't think this method works in story-focused games. Stories need drama and drama needs to be established early. Goals of our protagonist needs to be made clear as early as possible, too. The method you mentioned would maybe work if the story of Cyberpunk was "rags to riches" with twist in the last act pertaining the heist and Arasaka biochip. But, that wasn't the story they wanted to tell.
Someone brought up ME1 and DA:O.
Mass Effect's galaxy map doesn't open up until you are aware of the threat Saren and return of the Reapers pose to the rest of the galaxy. Drama first, exploration later.
In Dragon Age Origins, map of Thedas opens up after you learn about the Archdemon and imminent danger from darkspawn. Drama first, exploration later.
Or TW3 - you don't get to explore Velen and Skellige before you're informed about Ciri and the Wild Hunt.
Someone will speak....
Mass effect 1 - There is no eminent threat of the reapers. You have a rogue agent you are hunting down (even before then you were on the ship, just not in total command - temporary command). Shepard gets a vague reference to an imminent threat - which has no name, no timeframe, and little else. Throughout the game you learn more and more until talking with one. The urgency climbs slowly through the game. Bioware wasn't dumb enough (then) to have it be imminent invasion!!! oh fly around and do stuff. While you are given a story basis (find Saren and figure out thhis treat - the true story emerges later).
Dragon Age Origins: Yes - while the darkspawn have one their first victory, and regathering their strength and looting/consuming the dead and then moving their way in you run around to the 4 locations to gather allies to counter said invasion. There are several places to go and their is importance - but at no point are you allowed to spend months doing missions hither and dither while the invasion patiently and courteously awaits

Both do the story and your ability to travel in an excellent way.
One gives the premise away at the beginning so you know (the stakes!), the other gives you a different goal (find Saren and figure out what hes up to) but later having the true threat emerge.

Yes, you need drama (hence a story) and you need a reason. Often enough that reason is simple as getting stuff, getting more experienced, getting a decent place to live - then slam the players with THE HEIST and have everything go to shit and a oh no feeling.

Witcher 3 does it brilliantly. One one hand you have a vague threat to Ciri (dream) then gradually learn more and more through the quests but you and geralt are going after someone who can teleport and be somewhere else instantly. So its find her base of operations and let her know youre around.... but the brilliance is...
There is no urgency at all.... the moment the game starts and geralt has his dreams of Ciri and Yen - Ciri is in a suspended animated state on the island. Free from being found by all her hunters until they find and cure the one single person who both knows where she is - and her status. Her threat on reemerges once shes awake

Fantastically done.
 
Mass effect 1 - There is no eminent threat of the reapers. You have a rogue agent you are hunting down (even before then you were on the ship, just not in total command - temporary command). Shepard gets a vague reference to an imminent threat - which has no name, no timeframe, and little else.
Off-topic :
Admiral Hackett : "Shepard, you must arrest Saren at all cost because he want to attack and eradicate all of human colonies. You must go to the Citadel for convaince the council to send the concilian fleet to the terminus systems."
(after Eden prime, first mission where Saren kill mostly everyone).
For me, it's seem pretty "urgent" (Effectively not for your life like in Cyberpunk, but hey...)
 
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Guest 3847602

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Shepard gets a vague reference to an imminent threat - which has no name, no timeframe, and little else.
Shepard isn't even a Spectre at this point. Council doesn't take him seriously yet, but Shepard is most definitely aware of the Reapers and galactic extinction before the gameworld opens up.
Witcher 3 does it brilliantly. One one hand you have a vague threat to Ciri (dream) then gradually learn more and more through the quests but you and geralt are going after someone who can teleport and be somewhere else instantly. So its find her base of operations and let her know youre around.... but the brilliance is...
There is no urgency at all...
Geralt was looking for Yennefer in White Orchard (starting area), not Ciri. In Vizima, both Emhyr and Yennefer said to him that Wild Hunt is after Ciri. You already have urgent task before you can enter No Man's Land (and the gameworld opens up).
Wild Hunt can teleport, too.
There is no urgency at all.... the moment the game starts and geralt has his dreams of Ciri and Yen - Ciri is in a suspended animated state on the island.
Geralt doesn't know that.
 
Off-topic :
Admiral Hackett : "Shepard, you must arrest Saren at all cost because he want to attack and eradicate all of human colonies. You must go to the Citadel for convaince the council to send the concilian fleet to the terminus systems."
(after Eden prime, first mission where Saren kill mostly everyone).
For me, it's seem pretty "urgent" (Effectively not for your life like in Cyberpunk, but hey...)
Importance and Urgency are related but not identical. The Outer colonies have been threatened and one raided. Important. And if you do nothing for months yes urgent too. But invasions/raids take time. Further you are to stop SAREN. You're not supposed to fight off the entirety of his allies. So it is find Saren (you dont know where he is) - which involved - hint hint - going around looking for clues. In other worlds - exploring!
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Shepard isn't even a Spectre at this point. Council doesn't take him seriously yet, but Shepard is most definitely aware of the Reapers and galactic extinction before the gameworld opens up.

Geralt was looking for Yennefer in White Orchard (starting area), not Ciri. In Vizima, both Emhyr and Yennefer said to him that Wild Hunt is after Ciri. You already have urgent task before you can enter No Man's Land (and the gameworld opens up).
Wild Hunt can teleport, too.

Geralt doesn't know that.
Yes - shepard is aware of something - which he calls the reapers. There is zero timeframe or understanding of what is going on and when. It's a threat left for thousand and thousand of years. ALSO - you are forgetting this is after the initial mission - after you have your ship and can fly around - and further the main quest more to find out that Saren's ally might be more powerful than originally thought. (As by this point you have picked up Tali, Garret, and Dax) - ergo - you have been doing side missions to strengthen your crew. Shepard/those in the know have no idea when they reapers are coming. They learn an approximate time frame of the eradications and after more missions learn approximate time of the last. Further, even after learning the threat its not believed so you spend entirety of game two opposing believed ally of the reapers for their eventual invasion. Eventual - not arriving in time for dinner tonight, but coming, sometime.

I am so tried of people mixing Importance with Urgency. Yes Ciri is hunted. Yes Geralt hired to find her but already will want to. NOTHING there implies a ticking clock or imminent must do it hour one of day one. (Else Geralt would accept being teleported if he felt it was that time sensitive - ) But Geralt TURNS DOWN being teleported. Unless people wish to claim Geralt puts his dislike of teleports over his concern for Ciri. Anyone? Anyone?

If the Urgency (when something must be done) matched the Importance (the thing needing doing) Geralt would say so and act that way.

They did open world and story FAR better than was done in CP2077.
 
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Importance and Urgency are related but not identical. The Outer colonies have been threatened and one raided. Important. And if you do nothing for months yes urgent too. But invasions/raids take time. Further you are to stop SAREN. You're not supposed to fight off the entirety of his allies. So it is find Saren (you dont know where he is) - which involved - hint hint - going around looking for clues. In other worlds - exploring!
No need to explain me what happen, I play ME1 many times since day-one and finish it last week on legendary edition ;)

For me (it's my point of view) :
Cyberpunk = Urgency > You must save your life.
TW3 = Urgency > You must find Ciri (adopted daughter of Geralt ). When Geralt dream about Ciri, it's generally because she's in danger (Geralt to Vesimir at the start). And after been chase down by the Wild Hunt (path to Wyzima with Yenefer), it seem evident for Geralt to find Ciri as quick as possible.
DOS2 = Urgency > You must save the "Gods" (after Fort Joy)
Fallout 4 = Urgency > Your son has been kidnapped, you must find him. We can hardly do more urgent.
ME1 = Urgency > You must find and stop Saren after Shepard see what happen on Eden Prime.

I can understand that the sense of urgency may seem less "strong" for some players, but generally it is still there (to give a dynamic to the story) ;)
 

Guest 3847602

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Yes - shepard is aware of something - which he calls the reapers. There is zero timeframe or understanding of what is going on and when. It's a threat left for thousand and thousand of years. ALSO - you are forgetting this is after the initial mission - after you have your ship and can fly around - and further the main quest more to find out that Saren's ally might be more powerful than originally thought. (As by this point you have picked up Tali, Garret, and Dax) - ergo - you have been doing side missions to strengthen your crew. Shepard/those in the know have no idea when they reapers are coming. They learn an approximate time frame of the eradications and after more missions learn approximate time of the last. Further, even after learning the threat its not believed so you spend entirety of game two opposing believed ally of the reapers for their eventual invasion. Eventual - not arriving in time for dinner tonight, but coming, sometime.
Let's have a recap:

1) Saren is a rogue Spectre agent
2) Shepard knows that Saren is working on bringing the Reapers back
3) Shepard knows that the Reapers are responsible for extermination of Protheans

Conclusion: No urgency whatsoever, take your time, fight mercenaries and Tresher maws on remote planets, scan minerals and look for Turian insignias.
I am so tried of people mixing Importance with Urgency. Yes Ciri is hunted. Yes Geralt hired to find her but already will want to. NOTHING there implies a ticking clock or imminent must do it hour one of day one. (Else Geralt would accept being teleported if he felt it was that time sensitive - ) But Geralt TURNS DOWN being teleported. Unless people wish to claim Geralt puts his dislike of teleports over his concern for Ciri. Anyone? Anyone?

If the Urgency (when something must be done) matched the Importance (the thing needing doing) Geralt would say so and act that way.
There is a big middle ground between "imminent must do it hour one of day one" and "not urgent, collect Gwent cards, take dozens of witcher contracts and clear bandit camps".
No, there is no ticking clock in TW3, but you do know that Ciri is in grave danger and you have clues where to look for her. Elementary logic dictates that by making a detour Geralt decreases his chances of finding her before the Wild Hunt does.
 
Let's have a recap:

1) Saren is a rogue Spectre agent
2) Shepard knows that Saren is working on bringing the Reapers back
3) Shepard knows that the Reapers are responsible for extermination of Protheans

Conclusion: No urgency whatsoever, take your time, fight mercenaries and Tresher maws on remote planets, scan minerals and look for Turian insignias.

There is a big middle ground between "imminent must do it hour one of day one" and "not urgent, collect Gwent cards, take dozens of witcher contracts and clear bandit camps".
No, there is no ticking clock in TW3, but you do know that Ciri is in grave danger and you have clues where to look for her. Elementary logic dictates that by making a detour Geralt decreases his chances of finding her before the Wild Hunt.

Imo what makes the CP77's main quest pacing so noticeable (tho I don't believe the ME's one was handled as poorly) is the Night City. They just did such a wonderful job with it, filled it with so much content that...well...why? Why bother giving us this nice playground and then main quest that rush us so much?
 

Guest 3847602

Guest
Imo what makes the CP77's main quest pacing so noticeable (tho I don't believe the ME's one was handled as poorly) is the Night City. They just did such a wonderful job with it, filled it with so much content that...well...why? Why bother giving us this nice playground and then main quest that rush us so much?
I get that, and I get that V's life expectancy being longer or more vague would have worked better.
And my intention wasn't to take a jab at ME1's writing, but to show that applying the same scrutiny on its plot and side content would lead to the same realization - the more time you spend away from critical path, the lesser your chances of succeeding are (whether your goal is to save your life, your daughter's life, preventing the Harvest or stopping the Blight). There is no reason to think your enemies will stand still and wait for you to have your fill of sidequests.
 
Imo what makes the CP77's main quest pacing so noticeable (tho I don't believe the ME's one was handled as poorly) is the Night City. They just did such a wonderful job with it, filled it with so much content that...well...why? Why bother giving us this nice playground and then main quest that rush us so much?

My answer to this would be that it is most likely a sign of what was originally planned. The vast scope of the options a player would have, the quests they could engage in, etc. Then, a global pandemic struck, and a relatively small studio was forced to both grow to a size they had never had to manage before, at the same time that their work teams were being isolated around the globe...all while trying to complete production on a very ambitious title. Yeah...I don't think that worked out exactly as intended.

But, I think the foundations of something much bigger are already in place. I'm looking forward to seeing what they do in the future. (And I thought the main a story was pretty kick-ass. But I prefer strong narratives and definitive endings by nature, so V's story was something I really enjoyed.)
 
Let's have a recap:

1) Saren is a rogue Spectre agent
2) Shepard knows that Saren is working on bringing the Reapers back
3) Shepard knows that the Reapers are responsible for extermination of Protheans

Conclusion: No urgency whatsoever, take your time, fight mercenaries and Tresher maws on remote planets, scan minerals and look for Turian insignias.

There is a big middle ground between "imminent must do it hour one of day one" and "not urgent, collect Gwent cards, take dozens of witcher contracts and clear bandit camps".
No, there is no ticking clock in TW3, but you do know that Ciri is in grave danger and you have clues where to look for her. Elementary logic dictates that by making a detour Geralt decreases his chances of finding her before the Wild Hunt does.
Um.. please play the game again.. there is a difference between player knowledge and Sheppard's knowledge.

1. With Captain Anderson onboard the normandy right after they discuss the GETH attack. And with an eye witness, who is believable to them, they tied Saren to death and being a part of it. They think its the GETH - Sheppard doesn't know what a reaper even is.
2. Sheppard doesn't tie Saren to "Reapers"/larger threat until after the snow planet and the recordings.
3. You mean the Reaper invasion that takes place 5(?) years later?
4. Once again - it is a hunt and find game - with no dire immediate ticking clock

In Witcher it was sooooooooo urgent that Yen lets Geralt numerous times ride his horse from Vizima to other regions.. instead of teleporting.
Lets Geralt ride a horse to retrieve the transformed person and ride to Kaer Morhen (this takes weeks btw)
They split up as no idea where she is just some leads of cities she has been in. Which means asking around and checking places out. i.e. meeting people.. talking to people
You mean Yen who was in such a hurt as you say that she went off an a side quest to break the bond tying them together?

You can criticize these game of the years all you want - I don't recall any critics bringing any of these critiques in their reviews back in the day. They were deemed game f the years , especially in the genres, and W3 overall by so so so so many.

I'm sorry but ELEMENTARY knowledge leads you to watch to look all over and talk to everyone. As they key to finding Ciri ends up being a tiny troll looking creature who is a court jester for a trumped up Baron. To get there you have to go ALL over multiple areas, countries, cities.

Trying to scrutinize those for their non-imminent stories to a game that gives you 2+ weeks to live and repeatedly shows you getting worse at same time V speaks at length at numerous times about them wanting to urgently live... These two things aren't the same. Other games did their open/semi open world FAR better. to not be incongruent with their stories.
 
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Guest 3847602

Guest
1. With Captain Anderson onboard the normandy right after they discuss the GETH attack. And with an eye witness, who is believable to them, they tied Saren to death and being a part of it. They think its the GETH - Sheppard doesn't know what a reaper even is.
2. Sheppard doesn't tie Saren to "Reapers"/larger threat until after the snow planet and the recordings.
Watch the video I linked if you need to. Tali plays the recordings where Saren says that he's searching for the conduit to which Benezia adds that this will bring the Reapers back. Shepard knows who the Reapers are. He knows who wiped out the Protheans. Again, watch the video I linked, he literally ties Saren to Reapers.
Revelations you get further into the story are about Reaper indoctrination and true nature of Sovereign, not about the magnitude of threat.
3. You mean the Reaper invasion that takes place 5(?) years later?
Because Shepard and his team were successful in stopping Saren and Sovereign from opening the Citadel relay which prevented the Reapers from pouring in. That's why the invasion was postponed.
In Witcher it was sooooooooo urgent that Yen lets Geralt numerous times ride his horse from Vizima to other regions.. instead of teleporting.
Lets Geralt ride a horse to retrieve the transformed person and ride to Kaer Morhen (this takes weeks btw)
They split up as no idea where she is just some leads of cities she has been in. Which means asking around and checking places out. i.e. meeting people.. talking to people
You clearly have leads - Hendrik, Nilfgaardian spy in Velen, Triss in Novigrad and the site of magical explosion in Skellige. It's a lot more direct than "go there, wander around and you'll bound to find some clue".
You mean Yen who was in such a hurt as you say that she went off an a side quest to break the bond tying them together?
She asked you to meet her in Larvik which is 2 minutes away from Freya's garden.
If she wasn't in a hurry, she wouldn't insist on stealing and using the mask, she wouldn't perform the necromancy, she wouldn't propose Trial of the Grasses, she wouldn't be annoyed at everyone who wants to waste time on safer and slower alternatives.
You can criticize these game of the years all you want - I don't recall any critics bringing any of these critiques in their reviews back in the day.
I'm not criticizing, I'm saying it's the same video game logic - there's no penalty for ignoring the main quest, no matter how urgent the plot seems to be.
As for the critics, they also didn't bring up how the guards are not chasing them or how Novigrad or Beauclair weren't interactive enough. Or how the player can't have conversation with random NPCs, etc, etc, etc...
 
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Watch the video I linked if you need to. Tali plays the recordings where Saren says that he's searching for the conduit to which Benezia adds that this will bring the Reapers back. Shepard knows who the Reapers are. He knows who wiped out the Protheans. Again, watch the video I linked, he literally ties Saren to Reapers.
Revelations you get further into the story are about Reaper indoctrination and true nature of Sovereign, not about the magnitude of threat.

Because Shepard and his team were successful in stopping Saren and Sovereign from opening the Citadel relay which prevented the Reapers from pouring in. That's why the invasion was postponed.

You clearly have leads - Hendrik, Nilfgaardian spy in Velen, Triss in Novigrad and the site of magical explosion in Skellige. It's a lot more direct than "go there, wander around and you'll bound to find some clue".

She asked you to meet her in Larvik which is 2 minutes away from Freya's garden.
If she wasn't in a hurry, she wouldn't insist on stealing and using the mask, she wouldn't perform the necromancy, she wouldn't propose Trial of the Grasses, she wouldn't be annoyed at everyone who wants to waste time on safer and slower alternatives.

I'm not criticizing, I'm saying it's the same video game logic - there's no penalty for ignoring the main quest, no matter how urgent the plot seems to be.
As for the critics, they also didn't bring up how the guards are not chasing them or how Novigrad or Beauclair weren't interactive enough. Or how the player can't have conversation with random NPCs, etc, etc, etc...
Try PLAYING it....
The Video is 1/3 to 1/2 the way through the main quest after the mission on the ice planet and encountering Mama. This isnt after the prologue. This isnt after Eden Prime.
Yes the reapers are a threat. But - again- please tell me the time frame known of the attack. Especially as they have no idea what a conduit is. You still have no idea where your target is and what his plan is beyond vague phrases you cannot define.

Yes, Geralt has leads all over the place.. which involves traveling around. It the urgency was like 2077 they would be teleporting from lead to lead. Multiple cities, multiple regions, multiple countries. You have to TRAVEL the OPEN WORLD.

You are trying to attack the GoTY (ME, W3) mergers of open world and story but you cannot under any circumstance handing here's a huge open world.. but you have 2+ weeks to live

Fallout 4, CP2077 did and are under criticism for their dumb urgency of the plot then huge open world where waste weeks/months doign dumb stuff. Numerous reviews referenced it.

PLEASE identify a review of W3 or ME1 where people have an issue with the open world and plot congruence.

"
She asked you to meet her in Larvik which is 2 minutes away from Freya's garden.
If she wasn't in a hurry, she wouldn't insist on stealing and using the mask, she wouldn't perform the necromancy, she wouldn't propose Trial of the Grasses, she wouldn't be annoyed at everyone who wants to waste time on safer and slower alternatives."
Once again - confusing importance with urgency,. She delays the ritual so Ves can do his own thing. She was told no for the mask and she doesnt take no for an answer. Part of her character.
 
Try PLAYING it....
The Video is 1/3 to 1/2 the way through the main quest after the mission on the ice planet and encountering Mama. This isnt after the prologue. This isnt after Eden Prime.
The video, if it's this above one... It's at the end of the Citadel main quest (impossible to go anywhere else, Shepard don't have the Normandy...) and it's right after Eden Prime... Thanks to Tali'Zorah evidences, Anderson gives the Normandy to Shepard...
Resume : Eden Prime > Citadel > Council > Garrus > Wrex > Tali > evidence > Coucil > Shepard become Specter > Normandy > Explore to Stop Saren (Noveria, Feros and Therum).

I stop here for ME, it's a deaf talk :)
 
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