My idea of making the map become more massive but maintaining performance

[chin258456]

So I notice that CDPR makes the whole world map loaded at once, which makes it impossible to make rooms inside that huge building

Which is in the older game the trick for the massive world is separate outside and inside and have a loading time between it
Like in SKYRIM whenever players go inside the dungeon will have a loading screen, as well as go into any building

But there's another trick used by other games to make the massive world by hiding the loading time

In TONY HAWK's games, I can't remember which one every area is only connected by a really really long tunnel
Which only purpose for that is to hold players long enough for game to unload the previous area and load next area

As in other game that uses similar mechanics is MASS EFFECT
In that game, the elevator will really slow-moving and take really long time to reach the other floors

the elevator's fake in that game It's designed for stall players in there while they unload the previous area and finish loading the next area that's why most of the time we don't see an outside view of the elevator while they faking transport player

But the problem with Cyberpunk 2077 is the elevator in this game is real, the outside view of the world still working while the player traverses up and down the building
That's excellent to make an atmospheric place seeing the world connected but that makes the MASS EFFECT's trick won't work here

That game can load 1 floor at a time and when players go in the elevator the unload old one and load the next one without a loading screen

And Sorry for the long prologue

now it's come to the point I want to give you an IDEA to Make interior for the whole Night City possible

In Japanese house they have something like ENTRANCE HALL or GENKAN that really small area for people to change the shoes
This part is quite being both inside and outside the house at the same time

I got the Idea from here

You can make the GENKAN to Hold the player in there long enough to do the trick of unloading the world map and loading the room map
A little bit like In Elevators in 2077 that 'IDENTIFYING' for a while before players can push which floor they want

And now if you thinking then why one time load the room as soon as players opening the door with that 'IDENTIFYING' trick and cut the GENKAN part

Well Because if there are not have This hold up room people can either try to open one door then while it's not finished loading they go to another door try opening another door and maybe other doors and didn't enter

now the game will try to load many rooms at once while the outside still loading and functioning which I think would really have such an Impact on the performance for sure

And If you find a way to trick people into staying in that place for a while That will make sure players will wait in that Area While the game does the job of loading/unloading

With the GENKAN area loading at the same time as an exterior that makes players can quickly open the outside door almost instantly to get inside the room and the game just won't load the interior of the room unless the player chooses to get inside and interact with the inner door

Then the outside door will close and trap the player in while the 'IDENTIFYING' trick appears on both door
and open the inner door only when finished loading/unloading

In case of players change their minds and are about to go back without getting in the room the outer door should do the same 'IDENTIFYING' trick to hold players a while when they go out

Similar to DEAD SPACE 3's 'AIR LOCK CHAMBER' and 'TEMPERATURE ADJUSTMENT ROOM' that appear in every building to hold players for a while there

And it's not just something that could be used for a small room It should be used in bigger building
like a lot of night club that only have a sign but the doors are always locked

With these, you can make kinda GENKAN area but it's a room where the bouncer stop you there and waits while he talks to someone on a HOLOCALL or just scans you (This version is another 'IDENTIFYING' trick like in the elevator) before letting you in there

Also for the other not-so-normal entry areas like the air shaft or somewhere that players can crawl the way in then maybe use some idea from DEAD SPACE 2 that the air vent having a lock for only certified engineers could use

just make something like that in there to hold player as well could do the job too I think

Alright that's quite a long post but please considered these opinions
I think this is the way to make the whole massive world for the game with seamless transition and easier for the dev team to do it too

I love Night city and which I can open any door and there's something behind it not just LOCKED 99% of them like the game's current patch

well I just do not hope to see the game achieve that much progress in a sooner time or I don't know it will happen at all

But I hope this one could help the DEV team do their job easier

I love this game, I thanks all the hard work everyone in your team make this happen.
Hope this will help you all improve the game

 

[Bartinga2077]

So I notice that CDPR makes the whole world map loaded at once, which makes it impossible to make rooms inside that huge building

Which is in the older game the trick for the massive world is separate outside and inside and have a loading time between it
Like in SKYRIM whenever players go inside the dungeon will have a loading screen, as well as go into any building

But there's another trick used by other games to make the massive world by hiding the loading time

In TONY HAWK's games, I can't remember which one every area is only connected by a really really long tunnel
Which only purpose for that is to hold players long enough for game to unload the previous area and load next area
View attachment 11318942

As in other game that uses similar mechanics is MASS EFFECT
In that game, the elevator will really slow-moving and take really long time to reach the other floors

the elevator's fake in that game It's designed for stall players in there while they unload the previous area and finish loading the next area that's why most of the time we don't see an outside view of the elevator while they faking transport player
View attachment 11318945

But the problem with Cyberpunk 2077 is the elevator in this game is real, the outside view of the world still working while the player traverses up and down the building
That's excellent to make an atmospheric place seeing the world connected but that makes the MASS EFFECT's trick won't work here

That game can load 1 floor at a time and when players go in the elevator the unload old one and load the next one without a loading screen

And Sorry for the long prologue

now it's come to the point I want to give you an IDEA to Make interior for the whole Night City possible

In Japanese house they have something like ENTRANCE HALL or GENKAN that really small area for people to change the shoes
This part is quite being both inside and outside the house at the same time

View attachment 11318939

I got the Idea from here

You can make the GENKAN to Hold the player in there long enough to do the trick of unloading the world map and loading the room map
A little bit like In Elevators in 2077 that 'IDENTIFYING' for a while before players can push which floor they want

And now if you thinking then why one time load the room as soon as players opening the door with that 'IDENTIFYING' trick and cut the GENKAN part

Well Because if there are not have This hold up room people can either try to open one door then while it's not finished loading they go to another door try opening another door and maybe other doors and didn't enter

now the game will try to load many rooms at once while the outside still loading and functioning which I think would really have such an Impact on the performance for sure

And If you find a way to trick people into staying in that place for a while That will make sure players will wait in that Area While the game does the job of loading/unloading

With the GENKAN area loading at the same time as an exterior that makes players can quickly open the outside door almost instantly to get inside the room and the game just won't load the interior of the room unless the player chooses to get inside and interact with the inner door
View attachment 11318918
Then the outside door will close and trap the player in while the 'IDENTIFYING' trick appears on both door
and open the inner door only when finished loading/unloading

In case of players change their minds and are about to go back without getting in the room the outer door should do the same 'IDENTIFYING' trick to hold players a while when they go out

Similar to DEAD SPACE 3's 'AIR LOCK CHAMBER' and 'TEMPERATURE ADJUSTMENT ROOM' that appear in every building to hold players for a while there

View attachment 11318948

And it's not just something that could be used for a small room It should be used in bigger building
like a lot of night club that only have a sign but the doors are always locked

With these, you can make kinda GENKAN area but it's a room where the bouncer stop you there and waits while he talks to someone on a HOLOCALL or just scans you (This version is another 'IDENTIFYING' trick like in the elevator) before letting you in there



View attachment 11318954
Also for the other not-so-normal entry areas like the air shaft or somewhere that players can crawl the way in then maybe use some idea from DEAD SPACE 2 that the air vent having a lock for only certified engineers could use

just make something like that in there to hold player as well could do the job too I think
View attachment 11318957


Alright that's quite a long post but please considered these opinions
I think this is the way to make the whole massive world for the game with seamless transition and easier for the dev team to do it too

I love Night city and which I can open any door and there's something behind it not just LOCKED 99% of them like the game's current patch

well I just do not hope to see the game achieve that much progress in a sooner time or I don't know it will happen at all

But I hope this one could help the DEV team do their job easier

I love this game, I thanks all the hard work everyone in your team make this happen.
Hope this will help you all improve the game

Although it's a good idea, it seems clear that the REDS explicitly do NOT want the game to work like that. The way I think the game loads and unloads assets, is based on the player's line of sight, and doing jobs and or gigs.

When there is an obstruction in the players line of sight towards an "occupied car" for example, you can see the game sometimes taking that opportunity to de-spawn it entirely or swap it out for something else. This was very noticeable in the beginning, when the game would always swap a car out for an entirely new one every time you looked away and back again.

If I were to guess, I'd say this was one way for the game to relief itself of (excess) stress. Only, ofcourse, this wasn't exactly working as intended, so it was fixed.

Another example is the cyberpsycho gig at the Maelstrom ritual that's available to partake after a certain time. When you wait next to it before that time, the place is empty. When it's time, you see everything that orchestrates it spawning in. When complete, and goes out of draw distance, supposedly everything despawns.

My guess is that it's the same for all the other jobs and gigs, as to why the rate of the gigs unlocking has been slowed. Just to alleviate taxes that all those game assets are exerting onto the game simultaneously.

Will say that I find this unprecedented manner of performance preservation extremely pleasurable, as it offers complete, total and unobstructed player freedom. Have played tons of videogames in my life, but have yet to see one that comes even within lightyears close.

Will compare your suggestion which is based on another game with Final Fantasy VII Remake on the PS4, as they seem slightly the same.

In FF7R, the player is most of the time trying to move the dead butt of the player character. By that I mean, instead of running, the character walks or is even blocked because it first needs to complete an assignment before it is allowed to go to the next area. That the character is walking instead of running is, as it seems, to give the game time to load the next area, be it a cutscene, storytelling or a (boss)fight.

What the game especially does the entire playthrough long, is controlling... scratch that... HIJACKING your camera, AND you player character, insuring that you cannot see certain elements of the game and/or environment from certain angles during certain times. Presumably, also to load in the next area, as most of the time, you're not allowed to turn back.

With hijacking, I really mean, aggressively, without warning robbing you of any and all control of your camera and player character, just so to smooth it out with the next cutscene, area, storytelling or (boss)fight.

Will tell you that never ever before did I play a videogame that delivered such unrelenting agony and frustration throughout the entire playthrough.

I mean, the game is super smooth, not a single bug in it, but mothergonker up a satmast, You have obsoletely no player freedom whatsoever. Think that's something that SE either plain simply forgot or doesn't give a gonk about.

So no, although maybe a good idea for other games, don't think it's very suitable for Cyberpunk. Would compromise player freedom way too much. Much rather prefer CP77's current performance preservation mechanic.

 

[LeKill3rFou]

But there's another trick used by other games to make the massive world by hiding the loading time

Just about that, it was CDPR goal to make a game with the lesser amount of loading screen in the world or in the gameplay in general.. (nor any kind of "limitation" if it was possible.
And I have to admit, that's awesome and way better than let's say... Skyrim/fallout which have a loading screen at each doors (less now with SSD, but at time on a good old slow HDD... It was a pain in the ass^^ But the same for elevator in Mass Effect, it's just loading screens disguised (landings are also loading screens disguised...)

 

[chin258456]

Although it's a good idea, it seems clear that the REDS explicitly do NOT want the game to work like that. The way I think the game loads and unloads assets, is based on the player's line of sight, and doing jobs and or gigs.

When there is an obstruction in the players line of sight towards an "occupied car" for example, you can see the game sometimes taking that opportunity to de-spawn it entirely or swap it out for something else. This was very noticeable in the beginning, when the game would always swap a car out for an entirely new one every time you looked away and back again.

If I were to guess, I'd say this was one way for the game to relief itself of (excess) stress. Only, ofcourse, this wasn't exactly working as intended, so it was fixed.

Another example is the cyberpsycho gig at the Maelstrom ritual that's available to partake after a certain time. When you wait next to it before that time, the place is empty. When it's time, you see everything that orchestrates it spawning in. When complete, and goes out of draw distance, supposedly everything despawns.

My guess is that it's the same for all the other jobs and gigs, as to why the rate of the gigs unlocking has been slowed. Just to alleviate taxes that all those game assets are exerting onto the game simultaneously.

Will say that I find this unprecedented manner of performance preservation extremely pleasurable, as it offers complete, total and unobstructed player freedom. Have played tons of videogames in my life, but have yet to see one that comes even within lightyears close.

Will compare your suggestion which is based on another game with Final Fantasy VII Remake on the PS4, as they seem slightly the same.

In FF7R, the player is most of the time trying to move the dead butt of the player character. By that I mean, instead of running, the character walks or is even blocked because it first needs to complete an assignment before it is allowed to go to the next area. That the character is walking instead of running is, as it seems, to give the game time to load the next area, be it a cutscene, storytelling or a (boss)fight.

What the game especially does the entire playthrough long, is controlling... scratch that... HIJACKING your camera, AND you player character, insuring that you cannot see certain elements of the game and/or environment from certain angles during certain times. Presumably, also to load in the next area, as most of the time, you're not allowed to turn back.

With hijacking, I really mean, aggressively, without warning robbing you of any and all control of your camera and player character, just so to smooth it out with the next cutscene, area, storytelling or (boss)fight.

Will tell you that never ever before did I play a videogame that delivered such unrelenting agony and frustration throughout the entire playthrough.

I mean, the game is super smooth, not a single bug in it, but mothergonker up a satmast, You have obsoletely no player freedom whatsoever. Think that's something that SE either plain simply forgot or doesn't give a gonk about.

So no, although maybe a good idea for other games, don't think it's very suitable for Cyberpunk. Would compromise player freedom way too much. Much rather prefer CP77's current performance preservation mechanic.

the point you said may be true to some degree but I also disagree that it's always like that

Since whenever I set the graphic to the maximum the waiting time before the elevator becomes longer than lower setting as well

that means at some point when going to a higher floor game does loading top floor while the player waits for an elevator to 'IDENTIFYING'

which means the game load the whole floor (and many floors in some case) before players get in an elevator and unload the previously floor when they reach the other floors that's why they do the 'IDENTIFYING' trick again when you go back in it

the way I suggest just to make it could be easier to load individual, not just whole floors

so some random door player sees while walking the street could be open
otherwise, if the game tried to make the whole interior of the whole city and load them all at once while players come nearby
there are chances of wasting too much of the performance on the thing that players might or might not use

for example, the mega building has only 2 apartment rooms in the current path which loaded with the whole floors
and if later they added other rooms in it that also loaded with whole floors it will be too much data to just prepare and most of the time never used

but if the game loads the room individually whenever it surely that player would use this then the whole hundreds of rooms in the mega building could be filled with the lower cost

Post automatically merged: Sep 18, 2022

or the compromise that is not so individual like the single room I previously mentioned

is to load one floor at a time along with every room in it but this will have some more data to be loaded that maybe not be used at all
and need to redesign some buildings to make sure that can be only accessed from one elevator only so they could continue on use the same trick like in current patch

 

[Tetsuo2]

Just wanted to add that these loading zones are not only really old, they have even been used by CDPR before: The Witcher 2 (Asssassin of Kings) had these when entering/leaving a town, for example.

And no, we don't want that again.

 

[northwold]

I don't think it's a question of the tech not being up to it. It's a question of what would you fill the rooms with? The game already contains an absolutely massive amount of interiors, all hand crafted. Unless you want procedurally generated pointless boring spaces (and it certainly looks like CDPR did NOT want that but environments that human beings had thought about), it would take literally years to do this. And if you want just random spaces of nothingness generated by a computer, well... Why?

 

[chin258456]

I don't think it's a question of the tech not being up to it. It's a question of what would you fill the rooms with? The game already contains an absolutely massive amount of interiors, all hand crafted. Unless you want procedurally generated pointless boring spaces (and it certainly looks like CDPR did NOT want that but environments that human beings had thought about), it would take literally years to do this. And if you want just random spaces of nothingness generated by a computer, well... Why?

I don't know about you but I'm one of the players that like to just walk around and vibing with the atmosphere
also using the mod to unlock all doors going to places took a photo and stuff
just looking at some small stuff in the world and letting my imagination fill the stories

and I let others play with my game too and most complaints from casual gamers are the world seems big but empty
too many signs for something to look interesting but the doors are always locked
She goes to a bar around kabuki but when I use a mod to open it for her it's an empty void inside

she looks disappointed

the mega building only has 2 rooms in total and the market down there that can't really go there

the markets and shops are only just cosmetic, there're not many things to interact with and too much spread apart making the world more empty than it should be

when the world looks promising but can't fulfill its promises it's quite heartbroken

and like I said that this's not something I hope to see soon
I just wish these would make it happen more sooner

Dev team so just get the jobs done with less effort

Post automatically merged: Sep 18, 2022

I don't think it's a question of the tech not being up to it. It's a question of what would you fill the rooms with? The game already contains an absolutely massive amount of interiors, all hand crafted. Unless you want procedurally generated pointless boring spaces (and it certainly looks like CDPR did NOT want that but environments that human beings had thought about), it would take literally years to do this. And if you want just random spaces of nothingness generated by a computer, well... Why?

and not only that
people on the mod forum had made a lot of custom-building interiors before
like insert an apartment around the afterlife
and some other things around the night city

the thing is that's a mod and it's not convenient and be a whole with every mod some mods can't be used with other

people tried to fill the stories to the city even though the systems did not support that

and (this might not be a fair comparison but) the GTA V's roleplay server is still a big thing nowadays even though the city is not quite as much handcrafted like 2077
but people use their imagination to make up stories with what they got, it's a big playground for people to let their imagination make them believe something that is not there

many girls play these games too
some of them are likely to head out and find a spot to make a photo for their roleplay stories
and not just this game

in Skyrim there're tons of original roleplay fiction they made up to an album that is not even something that happened in the game
people just like an eyes candy like that too
walking goofing around and tried to use the game to be their background for their made up stories

 

[ShinAkira00]

I'm sure they're aware, none of this is new and they've done it before. They and several other devs have been trying to move away from that. Even the new engine that they're moving to promises the same idea of no loading times. That's not something developers want to move back to.

Also, the map is already plenty big so I'm not sure why we'd want to make it bigger for that trade off.

Post automatically merged: Sep 18, 2022

I don't know about you but I'm one of the players that like to just walk around and vibing with the atmosphere
also using the mod to unlock all doors going to places took a photo and stuff
just looking at some small stuff in the world and letting my imagination fill the stories

and I let others play with my game too and most complaints from casual gamers are the world seems big but empty
too many signs for something to look interesting but the doors are always locked
She goes to a bar around kabuki but when I use a mod to open it for her it's an empty void inside

she looks disappointed

the mega building only has 2 rooms in total and the market down there that can't really go there

the markets and shops are only just cosmetic, there're not many things to interact with and too much spread apart making the world more empty than it should be

when the world looks promising but can't fulfill its promises it's quite heartbroken

and like I said that this's not something I hope to see soon
I just wish these would make it happen more sooner

Dev team so just get the jobs done with less effort

Post automatically merged: Sep 18, 2022

and not only that
people on the mod forum had made a lot of custom-building interiors before
like insert an apartment around the afterlife
and some other things around the night city

the thing is that's a mod and it's not convenient and be a whole with every mod some mods can't be used with other

people tried to fill the stories to the city even though the systems did not support that

and (this might not be a fair comparison but) the GTA V's roleplay server is still a big thing nowadays even though the city is not quite as much handcrafted like 2077
but people use their imagination to make up stories with what they got, it's a big playground for people to let their imagination make them believe something that is not there

many girls play these games too
some of them are likely to head out and find a spot to make a photo for their roleplay stories
and not just this game

in Skyrim there're tons of original roleplay fiction they made up to an album that is not even something that happened in the game
people just like an eyes candy like that too
walking goofing around and tried to use the game to be their background for their made up stories

All of that is fine for players who want to use mods but the game isn't made for those niche gamers. It's a story driven game, so while immersion is important that's not the core of the game, the game play and story is.

The devs can't commit resources to things that the majority will have no interest in. If modders can make that a reality for those who do then that's great and CDPR seems willing to facilitate that.

 

[AikoHayashi]

- They have already added a lot of spaces that are not used for anything else than exploring (loot, shards).
- No loading screens please, it is fine as it is now.

 

[Notserious80]

Tbh most of these issues could pretty easily be solved with some "future" tech. The problem is its not availeble on old gen consoles and probably not all people is going too have access too it.

DirectStorage API Now Available on PC - DirectX Developer Blog

Starting today, Windows games can ship with DirectStorage. This public SDK release begins a new era of fast load times and detailed worlds in PC games by allowing developers to more fully utilize the speed of the latest storage devices. In September 2020,

devblogs.microsoft.com

Would solve these problems by loading textures very very fast on the fly directly into the gfx cards. Its already on both pc and new gen consoles (not sure any games really support it yet tho). In the future i think we wont be seeing loadscreens at all not even the hidden ones.

 

[chin258456]

I'm sure they're aware, none of this is new and they've done it before. They and several other devs have been trying to move away from that. Even the new engine that they're moving to promises the same idea of no loading times. That's not something developers want to move back to.

Also, the map is already plenty big so I'm not sure why we'd want to make it bigger for that trade off.

because it's just plain big and too less interactable
and the importance of ROLE PLAYING GAME is ROLE PLAY
which is mostly the game people are likely to out-of-game role play are the ones that are more open-end like Skyrim, fallout, GTA V, those kinds of stuff

But with 2077 it's too linear and too less roleplay part in it, but the role-players' interest in this somehow
And I remembered when the game was new and buggy all the people talk shit about 2077 these role-players are a big group that is willing to play the game in the most shitty state and didn't complain

while the majority of the casual players just dip out and complain about every single thing on social media even if it's something not related

when CDPR got hacked the casual players almost the entirety of the internet just laughing think it's served them right

Meanwhile, the girls' gamers who are quite new to the game are the ones who are concerned about the future of CDPR the most (as I noticed around my socializing)

When the game is a laughing stock by almost everyone these types of players are the ones who care
they are loyal, and the female is kind of repeatedly plays the same old games for years when they hooked into

now come to the technical part I don't want to bring GTA V to the table but cut the quest and action out GTA's map is still full of something to stop by
many food stores next to each other sell different products even if it's blatant cosmetics and not important to the game mechanics
there are so many places to interact right next to each other

and not to say about the slow pace area to feel the atmosphere like suitable bench and chair , players doing an animation of finished eating, bike rental , interactive bar , cinema , sports, shooting range,etc
to be fair the GTA V world design is easier to do so since the game only focuses on wide space not complex heigh area

now back to 2077, the world design overall is top-notch better but it makes the game harder to wrap around too
Night city is not just bigger but taller as well so many high rise building people not just travel further but traverse up and done as well

that makes the space of emptiness with nothing to look closely look bigger
they have very few interacting spots in much more vastly areas

the night city's just a big chunk that is hard to chew for DEV to make it more alive
it's harder to develop around it

and I respect CDPR for trying , I just don't want to be the the one who complain for things like a wishlist without looking for the truth
So I give my idea to help the DEV team to live easier

 

[LeKill3rFou]

which is mostly the game people are likely to out-of-game role play are the ones that are more open-end like Skyrim, fallout, GTA V, those kinds of stuff

Just a detail which have its importance if you ask me, Cyberpunk 2077 like The Witcher 3 are "story-driven" games (in which the "story" is the main purpose). So in these two open-world games, which are not "sandbox", there is less interactions with the world than Bethesda games or Rockstar games.

And about GTA V, I could be wrong, but I don't remember this kind of map on my solo playthrough... so I suppose it come from the multiplayer version in which keeping player "busy" are one of the main goal and is a totally different type of game.

Edit : And again, like @northwold said, if most of doors can't be open or areas closed/empty, it's not due to technical issue/limitations... I'm sure if in V's megabuilding all the apartments were "filled" and visitable, the engine/game could handle it with no problem.
It's just not the type of game that CDPR make and they don't think that filling the world with "useless" area is worth it (without speaking of the insane amount of work to do it, for "nothing").

 

[Notserious80]

Yea i kinda agree with @LeKill3rFou . I was also hoping for much more interactivity with the city and being able too explore more. Theres some hidden eastereggs and so on but its generaly just outdoor areas. Most doors are locked and with nothing inside. Heck even entire buildings are just empty space. I kinda dont like it either but if they would try too fill all up with stuff this game would probably take 200 years too make...

The roleplaying aspect of cp2077 is sadly quite lacking outside of the story and what you make up yourself. With proper modding tools it might be able to get better but i kinda doubt CDPR will be doing more around it. Most places become inactive after you have done the quest there and unless you mod opendoor and so on you will never be able too enter again. Its just not CDPRs style with a living open world sadly. Its very story focused and they are very good at that (even if im not a big fan of some parts of cp2077s story).

I would personally welcome alot of the ideas your comming with but i sadly dont see it happening.. Its just not CDPRs focus.

 

[chin258456]

that's a mainly criticized point of the game
it lacks QoL playing and being too linear for RPG standard
even compare to the witchers it's not having much of a branching outcome

and I know a lot of people which have many different opinions on something and I gathered their think about 2077 and tried to see the compromise that could be made for people who play the game for namesake, people who felt the atmosphere in the slow pace, people who interested to a story

So the thing is the average GAMER-TYPE likely to be ok with the big world but pointless like FARCRY-esque type of game for they just goofing around and find more loots, while the stories along the way are a bonus tag along, when asked them about preferring current 2077's world or Ubisoft's checklist world they tend to prefer Ubisoft's

and VIBING-TYPE is likely to just feeling to have surprised of came across an interesting thing, what I'm telling is the female fans of this game paid the full 50 USD for a walking simulator and feel this game's worth it, the other gameplay side is a bonus tag along for their playing just give them the big world to let their imagination connected the dot they can talk all days about the fan-fiction of night city they come up with after hearing a random conversation on the streets

And the STORY-TYPE is likely to not mind the gameplay just read everything they came across hoard every item just to read their description,
choose every dialogue option, do every side quest they are not really into playing things as I see they quite play it not so good even for easy mode
but they still love the game

the VIBINGs are the group that I saw they are most loyal to the game when hitting low points and are okay with compromise when I kinda asked them
and the average joe is kinda mixed feeling
I think they would more love the world like the current 2077 but every door is accessible without a loading zone, but if asked them between 2077 empty world or FARCRY pointless checklist world
they choose far cry because at least sometimes they can have some brainless fun

 

[northwold]

I think you need to bear in mind two things:

1. It is a hand-made environment. Every room has been designed.

2. You can't compare it with something like Skyrim. Skyrim has almost no buildings in it compared to the size of the map, and the buildings are small. Relatively speaking, it would be easy to populate every interior because there simply aren't many interiors! Likewise, people talk about GTA, but GTA has a fraction of the number of interiors that are already in Cyberpunk.

The issue is that Night City is a large city with skyscrapers. In real life, that would involved probably several hundred thousand interiors. That plain cannot happen. It would take a decade, if not more, just to design them. And for what? There'd be nothing interesting to do inside because making actually interesting content on that scale would take a lifetime.

This is not a tech problem. The game engine is streaming an enormous amount of the world in real time. That's why the game really needs a solid state drive to run, but the game can do that right now and it doesn't need loading screens.

It is an *amount of work* problem.

Even compared to Novigrad in Witcher 3, the sheer scale of the setting in Cyberpunk makes the idea of fully populating the city interiors completely ludicrous.

 

[chin258456]

I think you need to bear in mind two things:

1. It is a hand-made environment. Every room has been designed.

2. You can't compare it with something like Skyrim. Skyrim has almost no buildings in it compared to the size of the map, and the buildings are small. Relatively speaking, it would be easy to populate every interior because there simply aren't many interiors! Likewise, people talk about GTA, but GTA has a fraction of the number of interiors that are already in Cyberpunk.

The issue is that Night City is a large city with skyscrapers. In real life, that would involved probably several hundred thousand interiors. That plain cannot happen. It would take a decade, if not more, just to design them. And for what? There'd be nothing interesting to do inside because making actually interesting content on that scale would take a lifetime.

This is not a tech problem. The game engine is streaming an enormous amount of the world in real time. That's why the game really needs a solid state drive to run, but the game can do that right now and it doesn't need loading screens.

It is an *amount of work* problem.

Even compared to Novigrad in Witcher 3, the sheer scale of the setting in Cyberpunk makes the idea of fully populating the city interiors completely ludicrous.

the way I compare it to Skyrim is the way the system works in the older game compared to the modern game to load the scene to make an interconnected world

and the GTA V issue I already stated that different ways of designing the world are different, to begin with, but to point out the issue 2077 has more effect because of that different principle of designing

and the question of why the answer is to make the game less empty and appeal more to the average mass
the game had some players back but if nothing to hold them back after they finished they will slowly go like the last time

the QoL and little detail like these are things to make players wanna go back and enjoy the night city after they are done with the stories

and maybe if possible to achieve something never think it can be done before and being the talk of the town for the next years or decades the 2077's still the thing people still look back and amaze the amount of work they did

 

[GrimReaper801]

the way I compare it to Skyrim is the way the system works in the older game compared to the modern game to load the scene to make an interconnected world

You're basically asking CDPR go back against what the industry and what players want. We're moving away from loading screens. Data streaming tech has jumped leaps and bounds over the last decade. The overwhelming majority does not want to go back to loading screens, hidden or not.

and the question of why the answer is to make the game less empty and appeal more to the average mass
the game had some players back but if nothing to hold them back after they finished they will slowly go like the last time

This is such a flawed argument. Why does it matter? It's a single-player game. Whether people play it for 20 hours or 5000 doesn't change anything. As long as it sells and sell it does. Case in point, yet again, CP2077 went on sale to coincide with Edgerunners' release and it's been in the top 5 sellers since. Interest in the game is still very high.

If there was a multi player component to it you would have a point. It would be important to retain players and have them spend as much time in the game as possible. There isn't and there won't ever be one. You need to understand that the point of the game was never to provide endless replayability. It's a story driven game, there is a beginning and an end. It's not tech limitations, this was never meant to be a sandbox game. Ever.

 

[CS554]

So the thing is the average GAMER-TYPE likely to be ok with the big world but pointless like FARCRY-esque type of game for they just goofing around and find more loots, while the stories along the way are a bonus tag along, when asked them about preferring current 2077's world or Ubisoft's checklist world they tend to prefer Ubisoft's

and VIBING-TYPE is likely to just feeling to have surprised of came across an interesting thing, what I'm telling is the female fans of this game paid the full 50 USD for a walking simulator and feel this game's worth it, the other gameplay side is a bonus tag along for their playing just give them the big world to let their imagination connected the dot they can talk all days about the fan-fiction of night city they come up with after hearing a random conversation on the streets

And the STORY-TYPE is likely to not mind the gameplay just read everything they came across hoard every item just to read their description,
choose every dialogue option, do every side quest they are not really into playing things as I see they quite play it not so good even for easy mode
but they still love the game

Not a bad effort.

On art and creative side of things there's immersion in sense of virtual tourism. That can be sometimes something people don't associate with immersion but for example games with even mediocre driving physics tend to have very good paint and livery editing features. I don't know today but few years back, these features had most persistent crowd and it turned out a lot of them were serious hobbyist, students or apprentices or real professionals. So why some paint works and liveries in racing games look like they are done by professionals? It's because they are. And why when somebody asks new shapes nobody supports that particular enhancement, that's because it's worthless in practicing how to use tape economically.

In story driven game like CP 2077 that has some very interesting things going on that are really difficult to summarize for the sake of scope alone, but something for example: [SPOILERS] Kazimierz Dąbrowski’s Theory and Existential Depression in CP2077 | Forums - CD PROJEKT RED

For story driven game certain level of cohesion is needed to make things work together and make sense to player / tourist and in general make other things possible.

Then there's immersion, immersive mechanics / features and there's immersion has a different meaning because user goal is different. In that context immersion is a word invented to obfuscate connection to Freudian death drive.

So yeah, you are on to something there and it's definitely better than using same term for things that are quite different and if you think of these as spectrums, extremes might create situation that virtual environment turns not so good experience for different crowds. Say there were positive reaction for changes in how fixers work in patch 1.5 but for me there's certain practical problem with that accessing some things I liked to revisit on GIG's and then it's also so infantilizing that for me it's out right toxic. I just fucking can't. And I'm not buying Bartigan's explanation above as they could just tied gigs becoming available to either Street Rep or character level.

Panam stuff is also... it doesn't work and when going to topic of sexuality, infantilizing means emasculating and while there was some positive feedback about that too, I just have this feeling that there's this thought there that more automatically means better.

Loot, virtual pets, all that, I'm fine with them as long as I don't need to get involved with that and they are all optional content. For some they are important features, we can coexist, like the same game, even different features are what makes game experience work for us.

This relates to topic. Having more places to explore, it sort of doesn't work if there's nothing to be found. One of the details of Night City, floor plans make sense surprisingly well. It's like real world apartment buildings. You seen type or apartments, you seen them all. I don't say you can't request it, but hope you understand why it's irrelevant to many.

 

[chin258456]

You're basically asking CDPR go back against what the industry and what players want. We're moving away from loading screens. Data streaming tech has jumped leaps and bounds over the last decade. The overwhelming majority does not want to go back to loading screens, hidden or not.



This is such a flawed argument. Why does it matter? It's a single-player game. Whether people play it for 20 hours or 5000 doesn't change anything. As long as it sells and sell it does. Case in point, yet again, CP2077 went on sale to coincide with Edgerunners' release and it's been in the top 5 sellers since. Interest in the game is still very high.

If there was a multi player component to it you would have a point. It would be important to retain players and have them spend as much time in the game as possible. There isn't and there won't ever be one. You need to understand that the point of the game was never to provide endless replayability. It's a story driven game, there is a beginning and an end. It's not tech limitations, this was never meant to be a sandbox game. Ever.

many singleplayer games could have such replayable value
take THE LAST OF US for example
it's linear, story-driven, singleplayer but players based not just disappear after the game ends like in 2077 the launched peak drops too quick, only a handful of players stay after they finished the story, which sends not a quite good message
being a singleplayer only game doesn't need to be uninstalled as soon as the game ends

the game should make players satisfied and want more, not just be there, done that experience

and how could you sell more games if the product's something that comes and goes with no further value?

every player playing the game could have a chance to attract people around them to interest in the game too

more players stay more chance to sell more games, that's it

or else 2077 could not hold the player base for too long like again and again and maybe not able to attract them back entirely

and it may not be a sandbox but adding the sandbox element to the game does not reduce the value of the game either

 

[LeKill3rFou]

being a singleplayer only game doesn't need to be uninstalled as soon as the game ends

Just a detail, did you ever check the number of players who even finish games ?
(not only Cyberpunk, but most of games)
In general, it's less than 20% and it's often way less than 20%. So I assume if a player didn't even finish the game (at least the main story line), no chance that he would replay it again... replayability or not.