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My Issue with the Empres Ending. [Spoilers]

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J

Jou05

Rookie
#21
Jun 13, 2015
Vargeras said:
well there are some other choices too that makes no sense from a book perspective (Hello Triss!). But The WItcher games were always about the decisions you could make. From the way Ciri is presented in the game (and also in the books were she sees herself as a witcheress anyway (and so does Geralt btw)), the witcher ending is the "canon" one. But that doesn't make those other endings wrong, they just add to the variety.

---------- Updated at 02:59 PM ----------


yes, it's the players choice (since she asks directly about your opinion, and if you say she shouldn't go because he just wants to use her for his plan, then she won't). There are plenty of "bad" choices you can make (Hello Triss!), but thats up to the players.
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Triss a bad choice? Book readers pls
It may not be the right one from the books perspective but in the games both Triss and Yen are equal and valid

Same with other big choices, book Geralt may not do certain things but Game Geralt is the player's (not fully but its an RPG after all)
 
Last edited: Jun 13, 2015
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V

Vargeras

Rookie
#22
Jun 13, 2015
Jou05 said:
Triss a bad choice? Book readers pls
It may not be the right one from the books perspective but in the games both Triss and Yen are equal and valid

Same with other big choices, book Geralt may not do certain things but Game Geralt is the player's (not fully but its an RPG after all)
Click to expand...
You shouldn't take everything so seriously...
 
H

Horwath1

Rookie
#23
Jun 14, 2015
Why would you take Ciri to the emporer? I stayed as far away from that asshole as possible. In my ending he hanged many people. F$&@ that guy.
 
L

latios507

Rookie
#24
Jun 14, 2015
Horwath1 said:
Why would you take Ciri to the emporer? I stayed as far away from that asshole as possible. In my ending he hanged many people. F$&@ that guy.
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Lol. Not everyone has the same outcome. I almost brought ciri to the emperor. Thank god I didn't :p
 
F

FarrySquall

Rookie
#25
Jun 14, 2015
To be fair, the epilouge quest in which Ciri become Empress have more fun, more content than another ending's quest (we can have a last conversation with Dandelion, Zoltan and some dialouge with Triss/Yen)
 
V

Vargeras

Rookie
#26
Jun 14, 2015
farrysquallko said:
To be fair, the epilouge quest in which Ciri become Empress have more fun, more content than another ending's quest (we can have a last conversation with Dandelion, Zoltan and some dialouge with Triss/Yen)
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yes and in the "bad" ending you can kill the surviving crone, which I think is aweseome while in the "good" ending you can do pretty much....nothing.
SO the worse the ending the more stuff you can do as compensation.
 
F

FarrySquall

Rookie
#27
Jun 14, 2015
Vargeras said:
yes and in the "bad" ending you can kill the surviving crone, which I think is aweseome while in the "good" ending you can do pretty much....nothing.
SO the worse the ending the more stuff you can do as compensation.
Click to expand...
I never get the "bad" ending so i don't know much about it. The Witcher ending's quest is just boring aside from the big surprise in the end.
This is how i rate the ending: Witcher > Empress > Bad End
And the content, from 2 of my playthough and the bad ending you mention: Bad > Empress > Witcher
 
V

Vargeras

Rookie
#28
Jun 14, 2015
farrysquallko said:
This is how i rate the ending: Witcher > Empress > Bad End
And the content, from 2 of my playthough and the bad ending you mention: Bad > Empress > Witcher
Click to expand...
Which is pretty much what I just said, so yeah xD
 
R

RepHope

Rookie
#29
Jun 14, 2015
carlos2033 said:
He say that on ship when you rescue Fringilla, when you pick different options in conversation with him, i watched that part on youtube so not shure what are conditions to have that conversation but it goes like this: You`re insolent because you believe i cannot afford to hurt you, and you`re right yet that will change one day when you no longer indispensable but .... disposable.
I found a video if you want to see it start around 19:30
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VvOBIlZbi8&index=78&list=PL4vbGURud_HrCSHT2MiwFyh6V-o5rmihz
Click to expand...
Thanks. What an ass, don't feel bad about not taking Ciri to see him now.

---------- Updated at 02:11 PM ----------

farrysquallko said:
I never get the "bad" ending so i don't know much about it. The Witcher ending's quest is just boring aside from the big surprise in the end.
This is how i rate the ending: Witcher > Empress > Bad End
And the content, from 2 of my playthough and the bad ending you mention: Bad > Empress > Witcher
Click to expand...
Part of the reason Witcher doesn't get that much content I think is because otherwise it would spoil the surprise at the end. Even then the amount of dialogue and modifications based on who won the Third War is pretty good. You get to talk to the Emperor, some peasents, a blacksmith, and finally Ciri. Empress gets the most because it's supposed to reaffirm Geralt and Ciri's bond one more time before they go their separate ways, to make the goodbye that much sadder. Bad Ending is basically Geralt going all out one last time before he lets himself be eaten.
 
Cheylus

Cheylus

Senior user
#30
Jun 14, 2015
I like the "bad" and the "empress" endings more than the "witcher" one, considering how the first two are made. But "morally" and personally, I thought "witcher" was better.
In any case, Emhyr knows Ciri is alive at the end of the game ("witcher" ending). He simply accepts she doesn't want him and doesn't want to argue with Geralt about it (I read somewhere he says "I don't want to see you two again" in the polish version, while in english/french it looks like he's talking about Geralt only). No inconsistency for me here, it fits the character from the books if what I read about the polish script is true.

Him not helping me in Kaer Morhen killed the empress ending for me. He should have accepted Geralt's request without question. Philippa's unknown schemes too.
 
T

Thatfella

Forum regular
#31
Jun 14, 2015
Horwath1 said:
Why would you take Ciri to the emporer? I stayed as far away from that asshole as possible. In my ending he hanged many people. F$&@ that guy.
Click to expand...
My 1st playtrough I didn't, but I took her the 2nd time just to see what would happen.

Cheylus said:
Him not helping me in Kaer Morhen killed the empress ending for me. He should have accepted Geralt's request without question. Philippa's unknown schemes too.
Click to expand...
One of my points exactly, That showed me he only wants Ciri for his own personal goals and that he really don't care for Ciri. If he actually cared for her he would have sent every man possible to Kaer Morhen without question. it should not matter who's leading if your daughter's life is on the line.

Crach died helping Ciri & Gearlt but Emyhr never lifted a finger.
 
Last edited: Jun 14, 2015
O

OutgoingHermit

Rookie
#32
Jun 14, 2015
saricc said:
I don't like it much either. It doesn't make sense for the character imo. On top of that I feel like it's the result of Geralt giving Ciri bad advice (aka go see you're manipulative and horrible scumbag father instead of, "Your father wants to see you. Seeing him is up to you. And since you asked, he's a maipulative and horrible scumbag.").
Click to expand...
I have no problem with Geralt encouraging her to go see Emhyr. It's absolutely clear after the events at the end of Lady of the Lake that Emhyr, despite being a scumbag, loves Ciri and would never hurt her. He's even willing to take actions he'd normally consider out of the question (such as sparing the lives of untrustworthy people who know extremely compromising state secrets) so as not to hurt her.

He's a lot like Yennefer in that respect. *ducks*
 
Z

Zeroscape

Forum veteran
#33
Jun 14, 2015
buffbutler said:
I have no problem with Geralt encouraging her to go see Emhyr. It's absolutely clear after the events at the end of Lady of the Lake that Emhyr, despite being a scumbag, loves Ciri and would never hurt her. He's even willing to take actions he'd normally consider out of the question (such as sparing the lives of untrustworthy people who know extremely compromising state secrets) so as not to hurt her.

He's a lot like Yennefer in that respect. *ducks*
Click to expand...
Alternative interpretation:
Emhyr realizes that killing Geralt and Yen will have a profound negative impact on Ciri and reduce the likelihood of her cooperation moving forward. Ciri is incredibly headstrong so it would no doubt be a serious concern to his ambitions.

Without more information, I'd wager his actual thoughts were somewhere in between those two stances.

Thatfella said:
That showed me he only wants Ciri for his own personal goals and that he really don't care for Ciri. If he actually cared for her he would have sent every man possible to Kaer Morhen without question.
Click to expand...
I equate Emhyr with Tywin Lannister from Game of Thrones, especially Tywin's relationship with Jaime. His primary motivation, always, is legacy and empowering his own domain. Emhyr may long for Ciri on some level, but this is totally overshadowed by his ambition and drive. Ciri is the best option to solidly unifying the newly conquered territories but not the only one. He plays the political game much more than a personal one when it comes to Ciri.
 
V

Vargeras

Rookie
#34
Jun 14, 2015
Cheylus said:
(I read somewhere he says "I don't want to see you two again" in the polish version, while in english/french it looks like he's talking about Geralt only). No inconsistency for me here, it fits the character from the books if what I read about the polish script is true.
Click to expand...
Well before that he asks about Yennefer, and Geralt answers that she wants to stay in the North, so I think with "you two again" he means Geralt and Yennefer.
 
O

OutgoingHermit

Rookie
#35
Jun 14, 2015
Zeroscape said:
Alternative interpretation:
Emhyr realizes that killing Geralt and Yen will have a profound negative impact on Ciri and reduce the likelihood of her cooperation moving forward. Ciri is incredibly headstrong so it would no doubt be a serious concern to his ambitions.
Click to expand...
As you say, I think it's definitely somewhere between the two. But I think if you've read that part in the books, it should be a very clear indication that it is 'safe' to take Ciri to him.
 
L

lwp

Rookie
#36
Jun 14, 2015
Zeroscape said:
As it stands I also got the impression that the choice was made without Geralt's input.
Click to expand...
Seemed like that to me as well. But it's not exactly a bad thing, since she would go to Geralt for advice about 'witchering' things, but would probably never seek his advice for politics.

Zeroscape said:
I equate Emhyr with Tywin Lannister from Game of Thrones, especially Tywin's relationship with Jaime. His primary motivation, always, is legacy and empowering his own domain.
Click to expand...
Very good point. He is a very selfish individual and Ciri is more of a tool than a daughter to him.
 
Last edited: Jun 14, 2015
Z

Zeroscape

Forum veteran
#37
Jun 14, 2015
buffbutler said:
As you say, I think it's definitely somewhere between the two. But I think if you've read that part in the books, it should be a very clear indication that it is 'safe' to take Ciri to him.
Click to expand...
I just don't think it's so cut and dried as you make it out to be. There was a lot at work in that scene which would have likely influenced his decision, including what Geralt did for Emhyr in the past and seeing Yen-Geralt-Ciri as a true family that's struggled so hard to find each other. Without dialogue from him we can only speculate, but I think he was ultimately unwilling to cause more tragedy for Ciri because he had already lost her.

A stance, admittedly, he changes in the games.

---------- Updated at 05:58 PM ----------

lwp said:
Seemed like that to me as well. But it's not exactly a bad thing, since she would go to Geralt for advice about 'witchering' things, but would probably never seek his advice for politics.
Click to expand...
Politics, no, but I think her conundrum was figuring out what she feels she owes to the world. Is giving up her happiness worth it for a chance to make a legitimately positive impact on many lives, or is the risk of being manipulated and succumbing to the pit of vipers too high for someone like her?

Maybe she felt she already knew Geralt's answer to that, but she should've really talked to him and Yennefer about it. But that's my stance having read the books, the games take a decidedly more hands-off approach in their family relationship. It's a lot more tepid.
 
L

lwp

Rookie
#38
Jun 14, 2015
Zeroscape said:
But that's my stance having read the books, the games take a decidedly more hands-off approach in their family relationship. It's a lot more tepid.
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I just started the Tower of the Swallow so hopefully I'll see the family dynamic continue to develop. I did see another thread as well that mentioned the family dynamic was toned down alot in the game.
 
O

OutgoingHermit

Rookie
#39
Jun 14, 2015
Zeroscape said:
I just don't think it's so cut and dried as you make it out to be.
Click to expand...
Emhyr isn't entirely cruel. He has no problems with executing or assassinating political players, but he can't bring himself to murder the fake Cirilla.

I'm personally of the opinion that he has paternal feelings for Ciri based on his time as Duny.
 
D

dzbrown

Rookie
#40
Jun 14, 2015
I felt like the Emhyr knew that Geralt was lying, which was interesting because Ciri then asks him if he believed it and Geralt expresses some doubt. It was a scene that deserved a little more depth, because I felt it was essentially the Emhyr accepting the circumstances and willing to let Ciri go. Realistically speaking, even in the epilogue "Ciri's exploits are known". How could this fact not reach the Emhyr? It was his acceptance to let her walk her own path. His frustration of this fact was directed at Geralt, telling him "I never want to see you again". Because he knew it was probably Geralt that influenced her decisions and prevented him, the Emhyr, from getting what he wanted, i.e bringing her to him (this assumes the Witcheress ending). I think he leaves Geralt and Yen alone because he knew that without them, Ciri would still be in danger or dead. This is also interesting because it could be viewed as Geralt himself influencing Ciri's actions, but I did feel that Geralt was trying to channel, at least in several of the chosen prompts, to allow Ciri to be herself. This is why his tutelage and mild 'pressuring scenes' in the epilogue felt out of place. He was willing to let her be herself throughout the entirety of the game (for those that chose it) and in the end he is pushing her to a certain outcome...it felt out of place.

But back to the Emhyr: so even under his calm visage of contempt (and this could probably very well be out of character for him in the books), he was willing to let go, accept the circumstances, and let Ciri do what she wants. After all, my take on the empress ending was that (at least how it seemed to me) Ciri wasn't doing it for herself, she was doing it because she was influenced and/or guilted into making that decision, which wasn't really much of a decision at all. Her sadness and reluctance combined with her acceptance of the situation though without any enthusiasm, demonstrated to me that she was, once again, allowing herself to be used: just as Avallac'h used her to stem the White Frost. Sure, she might have done it on her own volition, though the question is whether or not she would have done it without the coaching, and opinions of her mentor during their sessions.

Ciri, seems, after all, to be a bit impressionable though good-natured and empathetic, and people take advantage of this fact. As for her own wishes and whims, I thought she made that clear in several instances over the course of the game, she wanted to be free, she wanted a playful, interesting, adventurous and 'simple' sort of life away from the grand machinations of world politics or extraterrestrial doomsday scenarios. But due to her empathy and due to her not wanting to see others hurt, people exploit this and 'Grima Wormtongue' their own ideas and ambitions into her.

Of course a bit more exposition on her own thoughts, as well as that of others in what they wanted her to do (Emhyr) would have provided a lot more insight into all of this, but instead we are left to somewhat speculate..maybe that's for the best, maybe not.
 
Last edited: Jun 14, 2015
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