My take on the problem with Nilfgaard

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This is the antithesis of the other thread about "NG being OP"
Here's my thread where I explain why I think NG is hot garbage and needs a buff:
-Golds are crazy good, but expensive. You can't run them all (obviously) but not even nearly as many as you'd want. You're forced to pick between a handfull when they're all so good. Stop making great NG golds and START MAKING GREAT NG BRONZES because...
-Bronze units are A W F U L. Magne is good, Hunters are essential in ball decks, Fangs are... okay but only work in a poison deck, Tortoise is playable, rest are just not good value, and Magne is basically the only good engine.
-Worst of all: nothing I've seen from the expansion so far seems to solve any of this. The new bronzes all have the same theme of "if you build the entire deck around these and if you set them up right, there's MAYBE a CHANCE that they get you SOME points", while the golds are again really really good (Ivar is broken OP imo)

This means NG will still struggle greatly in R1 because its bronzes can't compete in any way with other factions' bronzes, NG will still struggle in R2 because it'll get its golds bled, and ultimately nothing will change and it'll stay a meme faction.
Really disappointed by the new NG bronzes, I don't know if I'm the only one who thinks this way and if I am... sorry for being a party pooper. If I'm not, well, share the sadness. RIP NG
 
Without addressing OPs points one by one (as I believe this is about the 10th similar topic about NG being weak, etc. in the current meta), I'd pinpoint one major issue only with the faction, and mostly their bronzes - and that is their lack of internal synergy. NG has a lot of interesting archetypes, however these are typically not functioning well when mixed withon a deck. You have soldiers (clearly benefiting from other soldiers mostly), assimilate cards, deck manipulation cards, status cards, poison package, etc - yet, if you check their mechanics, usually they either require non-trivial setup, or just plain suffer when moved outside from their own archetype.

Looking at a faction that received a lot of hate nowadays, SK, or even NR for example, and examining their bronze package, we can spot two obvious things:

- they have (especially SK) solid options without any serious conditions to produce those sweet 7 for 4 and 8 for 5 provision cards;
- their bronze package has excellent internal synergy, allowing for great interchangeability, flexible ordering, and sometimes even a chance to compete with other faction's golds.

I really believe the key to address several factions "bronze unit" problem is to look into these small synergies between cards. The negative examples are NG, SC (porbably even in a worse state than NG tbh) and in multiple cases SY.
While the formula for success in case of SK is obviously the ease-of-use dmg/self dmg mechanic, the lack of such "finesse" is impacting some of the factions heavily.

As a quick conclusion, buffing a card by 1 or playing with provisions etc. while can be beneficial, it won't solve the core problem, the one being that cards need to benefit from / synergize with each other.
 
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I just want to add my two cents while not ( only ) addressing NG problems.
As Messyr said, bronzes need to have more synergies and should enable to player to have a different take on the game ( read: archetypes, combo ) but this needs to be done within all factions. Golds should be very, very powerful finishers or enabler but the outcome should not simply be decided on "Draw your golds or lose". Comebacks SHOULD be a possibility, even in seemingly unwinnable games. This is nothing a good overhaul of most bronzes couldn't solve, maybe while also touching a bit of 7-8 provisions cards.
 
SC (porbably even in a worse state than NG tbh)

Really? I've always seen Scoiatael having much better bronzes than NG. The dwarves are nuts and Nature's Rebuke is an amazing 5 removal with all its synergies. Sure the elves are garbage but the faction doesn't need those cards in the slightest, it has good options. NG right now has Magne as the universally solid bronze and that's it. Really not sure what made you say that
 
While I can't 100% confirm, looking at current plan for balance patch with 8.0, we will likely buff 6 NG bronzes and 4 golds. I think this will be a big step in a better direction.
that's great as a NG main I appreciate it, but one of the main problems with NG is bad leaders. any plans for those ?
 
that's great as a NG main I appreciate it, but one of the main problems with NG is bad leaders. any plans for those ?
I'd love for some reworks and buffs, but have you seen some of the other factions' leaders?
NG you can sort of make every leader work. With SK... no deck wants Rage of the Sea, Onslaught is straight up no points, Flurry is a bit of a meme. And NR has Stockpile and Royal Inspiration, both waaaaaay worse than any NG leader.
 
I believe strongly that a big part of the issue lies in their leaders. It's a very technical faction but right now their most technical leaders have either been reworked or deleted completely. I'm talking about Tactical Decision and Strategic Withdrawal.
The current Tactical Decision might end up being decent with some more support, but there is simply no replacement for Withdrawal's function. Now there are many cards that benefitted greatly from this leader stuck with no home. Archetypes like Swarm, Mill or Spies suffer greatly without it. An important play for Spy lists after MM was using it on Usurper to get some more spies, it wasn't particularly strong but without it Spies are nowhere to be seen. Swarm lists used Withdrawal on Vreemde for their big play, this can no longer be done therefore NG Swarm is gone. Mill is self-explanatory why it needed Withdrawal.
Other cards I'd argue needed Withdrawal to even consider being played are Shilard and Cynthia maybe even the Witcher trio but that might change with the upcoming expansion.

They have some subpar bronzes as well, sure. But I think simply giving NG as a whole more flat points will ultimately dilute the faction's identity.
There are ways to have this leader not play 2 cards in 1 turn, I really think they need to be considered instead of Imprisonment which is simply superfluous. Here's an example.
 

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Really? I've always seen Scoiatael having much better bronzes than NG. The dwarves are nuts and Nature's Rebuke is an amazing 5 removal with all its synergies. Sure the elves are garbage but the faction doesn't need those cards in the slightest, it has good options. NG right now has Magne as the universally solid bronze and that's it. Really not sure what made you say that
Stating simply that NG has no solid bronzes is at best misleading and at worst not true. Within their own "package", soldier cards are more than OK, at least a good chunk of them. Assimilate cards work very well in a package (just as dwarves work well if you avoid mixing them too much), the same goes for the status/aristocrat package. We can list several good cards as standalone untis. The issue starts when you pick these and move them out of their "comfort zone" - then their usefullness drops significantly, often to the 4 for 4 / 5 for 5 level (which is terrible in today's Gwent).

As for SC, you pretty much answered yourself here - the dwarves are indeed fine in their vacuum, most of them quickly starts to lose value outside the Mahakam Forge setup. There are a few good picks like Hamas, and Rebuke from the specials package, but we could list about a dozen that is just the same poor quality as in NG's case.
I believe saying that "the faction doesn't need elf bronzes in the slightest" is a fundamentally wrong approach. Yes, it needs those cards, they should be represented and act on a similar level of effectiveness as the positive examples you listed. A full archetype within a faction, barely hitting the 5 for 4 / 6 for 5 level, often within their own environment. Also, we should keep in mind that a good number of SC bronzes received a (well deserved) facelift just a few months before.
 
Stating simply that NG has no solid bronzes is at best misleading and at worst not true. Within their own "package", soldier cards are more than OK, at least a good chunk of them. Assimilate cards work very well in a package (just as dwarves work well if you avoid mixing them too much), the same goes for the status/aristocrat package. We can list several good cards as standalone untis. The issue starts when you pick these and move them out of their "comfort zone" - then their usefullness drops significantly, often to the 4 for 4 / 5 for 5 level (which is terrible in today's Gwent).

As for SC, you pretty much answered yourself here - the dwarves are indeed fine in their vacuum, most of them quickly starts to lose value outside the Mahakam Forge setup. There are a few good picks like Hamas, and Rebuke from the specials package, but we could list about a dozen that is just the same poor quality as in NG's case.
I believe saying that "the faction doesn't need elf bronzes in the slightest" is a fundamentally wrong approach. Yes, it needs those cards, they should be represented and act on a similar level of effectiveness as the positive examples you listed. A full archetype within a faction, barely hitting the 5 for 4 / 6 for 5 level, often within their own environment. Also, we should keep in mind that a good number of SC bronzes received a (well deserved) facelift just a few months before.

I'm not saying "dont buff scoiatael bronzes" mate, I'm saying how could you even conclude that they're worse than NGs?
Soldiers aren't even good with an entire deck dedicated to them. Mahakam Forge deck stomps by comparison.
 
that's great as a NG main I appreciate it, but one of the main problems with NG is bad leaders. any plans for those ?
Enslave is a good leader, impostor ir also a great value. Tactical decision need a little buff (maybe the token should be a 7-8). Imperial formation needs a buff either boost of 3 or 4 charge. The one that plays a card from oponents hand should have more options, maybe 4 or 5 now is too rng. Encage is garbage and should be completely reworked. Lockdown may get a buff in provisions but it is ok.
 
that's great as a NG main I appreciate it, but one of the main problems with NG is bad leaders. any plans for those ?
I assume buffing NG Leaders is quite problematic because they always need to take Damien's ability to refresh them in to account, while it would be kind of sad if Damien would receive a rework, I think it would probably be the best solution if they want to buff the NG Leaders in to top tier level.
 
I assume buffing NG Leaders is quite problematic because they always need to take Damien's ability to refresh them in to account, while it would be kind of sad if Damien would receive a rework, I think it would probably be the best solution if they want to buff the NG Leaders in to top tier level.
They should just make him even more risky than he already is if so. Vattier and Syanna can do enormous 20+ point swings already but they are so risky barely anyone plays them. So I don't think it should be an issue at all.
 
I'm not saying "dont buff scoiatael bronzes" mate, I'm saying how could you even conclude that they're worse than NGs?
Soldiers aren't even good with an entire deck dedicated to them. Mahakam Forge deck stomps by comparison.
Mahakam Forge =/= Scoia'tael. If you check my previous argument, dwarves are exactly the sort of synergistic archetype that works well in a vacuum. Elves on the other hand are not even functioning amazing in their own deck unless carried by the scenario or the powerhouse goldens of the faction.
NG has the sort of issue that the overall synergy between their units is possibly the lowest right at the moment. Add in the relatively weak leaders and we are where we are now - a faction seriously depending on it's scenario or some key golden cards. If you run the same check on SK or NR for example, it is easy to see that they are pretty competitive in some rounds with their bronzes only.
 
Also Cahir, do something about him, he's either winning you the game or dying. My idea would be to make his effect "Every time an enemy is boosted, damage a random enemy by 1" This way you don't get that insane boosting which basically nullifies any boost the opponent might have BUT the damage he does are points no one can take back from you for example if he gets removed or reset (then all the boost you soaked up was for nothing, and serves you right for using such a cheese card :p ). Maybe give him 1 more point in power and 1 in armor if you think that in itself isn't strong enough.
 
Also Cahir, do something about him, he's either winning you the game or dying. My idea would be to make his effect "Every time an enemy is boosted, damage a random enemy by 1" This way you don't get that insane boosting which basically nullifies any boost the opponent might have BUT the damage he does are points no one can take back from you for example if he gets removed or reset (then all the boost you soaked up was for nothing, and serves you right for using such a cheese card :p ). Maybe give him 1 more point in power and 1 in armor if you think that in itself isn't strong enough.

Cahir looks great, there are a dozen different ways to deal with him, and against several decks he's ineffective.

While I can't 100% confirm, looking at current plan for balance patch with 8.0, we will likely buff 6 NG bronzes and 4 golds. I think this will be a big step in a better direction.

Finally:cry::cry::cry:
 
Also Cahir, do something about him, he's either winning you the game or dying. My idea would be to make his effect "Every time an enemy is boosted, damage a random enemy by 1" This way you don't get that insane boosting which basically nullifies any boost the opponent might have BUT the damage he does are points no one can take back from you for example if he gets removed or reset (then all the boost you soaked up was for nothing, and serves you right for using such a cheese card :p ). Maybe give him 1 more point in power and 1 in armor if you think that in itself isn't strong enough.
Well, if he would damage a random opponent by the EXACT AMOUNT of the boost before, I'd buy it (but it would be just as oppressive, if not more, as he would literally obliterate the opposing board after a few buffs) :shrug:
Simply one ping of a damage would turn him into a most uninteresting card, definitely not for the same provisions.
I'd say just imagine him as an alternative (and way less binary) Yrden. You can at least do something about Cahir. I don't mind him as a sort of terror against ultra greedy decks running without any movement/removal.
 
Well... I don't think he's interesting now lol. I mean, he's strong but that don't make him interesting. :D But okayy.
 
By interesting I mean at least he has a unique effect - a gamechanger vs. some decks, yes, but definitely not something you cannot react to. A fair card, polarizing, but fair. :)
 
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