My take on why this game failed so hard, despite how good Witcher 3 was

[GeraltOfRivia_PL]

I am not a developer, programmist, or anything like that.

But think about it logically. With the Witcher 3, CDPR had lots of experience. The Witcher 1 and 2 are games with lots of flaws (especially 2, with its clunky inventory, broken minimap etc.) but they provided them experience for the Witcher 3. They knew (more or less) what to do and what not to do, because all the Witcher games share the same setting: a medieval fantasy with lots of combat, intense story, and lore.

This is not the case with Cyberpunk 2077. The game is their first title set in a futuristic setting with guns, cars, skyscrapers. They even changed the camera perspective.

They simply didn't have enough experience with that kind of game, and they failed.

 

[Wyverian4G]

I dont think its a "Fail" per say, i think the core game is a good game thats pretty flawed, the game has a shit ton of negativity surrounding it, and for good reason. More or less the game falls into the same traps The Witcher 3 did, but worse. Personally i love the game, but then again i'm also a fan of the Universe, but can't really defend the shady actions of CDPR management.

 

[VincentS4]

This game failed because they skipped at least two years of development, it came too quickly and in a rushed state.

 

[Myajha]

The game hardly failed. It sold a ton of copies, and very few were refunded, so I'd hardly call that a fail. The problem isn't the game per say, it's that they pumped up our expectations so very high, and didn't deliver on those expectations.

Still it's a good game that'll become great once the modders get a true hold of it. You can already see it now with what the modding community has put out, and with the release of the modding tools, it'll only get better.

But to answer your question why it "failed", it "failed" because management was more concerned with their investors and their bottom line, then they were in the game and game quality. It failed because CDPR has a strong tendency (even in the Witcher series) to make things in house, instead of seeing what's already on the market. They make very good games that would have been great ten years ago, but today feel dated and antiquated with some of what the other engines can do, compared to their own in house engine.

That and they didn't trust their developers enough. They over managed, constantly were moving the goal posts, and were getting involved in decisions that they didn't need to get involved in.

That won't change without a major shake up in CDPR, and since the majority stock holders are also the very same management that we're talking about here, that's never going to happen.

It's not about inexperience at all, it's about a closed circle, where the management basically ignored anything outside their bubble.

 

[Krul2k]

Nobody expected the spanish, i mean W3, or atleast not to the extent of the ppl waiting eagerly for CP2077

If CP2077 released before W3 it be a different story being played imo

Correct me here when im wrong as im sure most will but

I seem to recall spending more time with my "romantic" option in cp than i did in w3 IE questing an getting to know them

I seem to believe, if you only play either one game or the other and nothing else, the cast is alot more developed and you the player get to know them better in CP as opposed to geralt already knowing them and having a relationship already developed with them.

Ppl wanting to sit an drink an eat, when in W3 do you do it outside scripted scenes just like CP?

Story? Subjective from person to person

Features? W3 does have more i guess because of gwent but CP does have boxing and street races though wee could always do with more

On a 1 v1 game v game basis, bugs, crashes aside i personally feel more attached to the cast in CP than anything offered in W3 simply because im forging these relationships, im furthering them, im building them a hell of alot more than anything W3 offered, CP cast beats any cast in any Witcher game on a 1v1 basis and if we got a trilogy of CP games with a continuation of the same cast aswell as relationships and V as our PC i sure as hell will undoubtedly hold my hand up and say it will probably sit up as the best trilogy of games i've ever played even if every one launched with the same bugs and glitches but had the same expertly written storys and characters.

Luckily i live in a world where i can sit and enjoy both equally if i choose which i will

Firing squad at the ready

 

[Bloodartist]

Regarding the title: there is a simple reason: people who made Witcher 3 are not the people who made Cyberpunk 2077.
Large quantities of devs from W3 left CDPR in between.

 

[SigilFey]

I disagree with the concept that the game "failed". It clearly didn't "fail". It didn't instantly become "the greatest game of all-time, #1 on world-wide charts, and lauded as an instant classic, setting the standard for all similar games to follow..."

...but things don't need to achieve ultra-complete-#1-domination-victory in order to be successful. I'd say the game has already proven to be very successful. It saw hundreds of thousands of players on Steam alone at release, and continued to see that for almost a month. It's continuing to sell really well up to this day. It's obviously something a lot of people still enjoy.

And then, there are the hard truths:

1.) The Witcher 3 was an almost impossible act to follow. (I was saying this long before Cyberpunk 2077 was even formally revealed.)

2.) It's a relatively short, single-player game. (It's really unlikely for an SP game to compete with the ongoing popularity of an MP game.)

3.) It was extremely ambitious, although, not in a way that I think most players recognize or appreciate. The sheer level of cinematic work that went into this was staggering.

4.) During the busiest, craziest time of the development cycle, it was completed during the worst global pandemic in living memory. (That's going to have an effect.)

5.) It's not what many players were "expecting", but just listening to many of the harshest reviews and criticisms out there, I would need to argue that they are based on hearsay, misinterpretation, or outright assumption -- not objective understanding of what was actually announced or revealed. (In short, speculation and imaginings being treated as official announcements and verified confirmations.)

*And I'm breaking right here to remind everyone that I am speaking for myself. This is not an official CDPR statement. I'm speaking as a member of this community, nothing more.

6.) Then...we have the launch. That was an "ouch", and CDPR readily accepted responsibility and accountability for it -- especially concerning players on last-gen consoles. (But that sucked.)

So, was it the greatest, most amazing RPG ever made? Nope. Probably not.

But I still had a blast with it! I loved the narrative arc of the story, and I felt that the core of the game was really engaging and moving. I felt that the character development and interaction was incredibly nuanced and well presented. I thoroughly enjoyed the main quest, and I absolutely appreciated the harrowing ending to what was a very evocative and existential plot. I feel the choice / consequence was very apparent and subtly handled across the board.

And most importantly, I am perfectly confident that the ongoing work is going to polish the game up to fine sheen. At least as slick as TW3 -- even if it never captures, as universally, the mass market the same way.

I don't feel the game "failed" even slightly. It was just a rather clunky success that pales in comparison to its utterly legendary predecessor. It has no reason not to proudly stand on its own merits and continue coming into its own...even if it never gets to "#1".

(Point-in-case: neither Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning nor Dragon's Dogma ever "topped the charts". Both are continuing to sell to this day. [Playing another run of Dragon's Dogma now, actually.] A title doesn't need to own the entire continent to be a success.)

 

[Krul2k]

Want to hire my pawn?

 

[BigRock22]

I agree with most of the comments above and what needed to be said has been said.

The game is most definitely not perfect or an instant hit. But it has clearly not failed and has been a massive financial success which is backed by data and not internet feels: https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/...w-the-biggest-digital-game-launch-of-all-time

I personally love the game but I cannot say I am surprised it has divided opinions on everything from plot to game mechanics. But in the end CDPR put forward their creative vision. The way the gaming community accepts it will always be subjective. It is impossible to develop a game that pleases all audiences. If you try to please everyone, you will please noone.

 

[SigilFey]

I agree with most of the comments above and what needed to be said has been said.

The game is most definitely not perfect or an instant hit. But it has clearly not failed and has been a massive financial success which is backed by data and not internet feels: https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/...w-the-biggest-digital-game-launch-of-all-time

I personally love the game but I cannot say I am surprised it has divided opinions on everything from plot to game mechanics. But in the end CDPR put forward their creative vision. The way the gaming community accepts it will always be subjective. It is impossible to develop a game that pleases all audiences. If you try to please everyone, you will please noone.

Part and parcel with constantly trying to re-invent the wheel, I'd say. It's invariably going to leave a lot of people feeling like they bought a "hot dog" and got "falafel" instead. But that doesn't mean falafel isn't awesome. (I love falafel.) It just means that people need to realize that not all of those push-carts on the streets are selling hot dogs. Push carts can also be used to sell falafel. Or gyros. Or sticky rice.

Want to hire my pawn?

Yes'm. Sooo many disconnection issues. Looking for good, low-level Pawns... (Started a brand new character. Going to do a Mystic Knight build, ultimately.)

 

[Blurts]

Decent critic reviews and decent sales mean that this game is not a failure. It's just not the classic we were expecting, but could be a fairly forgettable game. It all depends on what CDPR do over the next few months.

 

[Myajha]

Part and parcel with constantly trying to re-invent the wheel, I'd say.

Out of all your posts on this topic, this is the only (partial) comment I disagree with, and I think hits the nail on the head of why so many people feel abandoned.

The problem is, that I think CDPR didn't re-invent the wheel or even try. From the looks of it on the outside, it went with safe and tried and true (aka the hot dog) instead of pushing the envelope (aka the falafel). They kind of mentioned how this game was supposed to be revolutionary and state of the art, and other then looking pretty it's mechanics are tried and true, and dated by comparison to other games out there. Saints Row has better driving, Mass Effect had better character creation and choices mattering, as well as others, such as GTA5. There's nothing new and revolutionary about Cyberpunk other then its setting.

And to be honest it doesn't really get the setting perfect either. It's kind of a 75% on everything it tries, and never goes for that 100%.

Don't get me wrong, I love New York street hot dogs (forget Chicago, New York hotdogs are where it's at) but really when you kind of market falafel, you kind of expect falafel.

 

[Gillian_Seed]

Speaking purely based on the game itself and not the financial profits:

Was the game a failure at launch? - Yes according to CDPR's stated goals when they announced they were making it. CDPR said they were making a next gen, mature themed, deep and true RPG experience. They failed.

Can the game be built into the game they claimed they were making? - I have no idea but I think it's very unlikely.

 

[Myajha]

Can the game be built BY CDPR into the game they claimed they were making? - I have no idea but I think it's very unlikely.

I added in something, that I think makes your statement correct. Give the modders a chance. Look what they are doing in Fallout 4 even to this day, and you can see the miracles that modders can accomplish.

 

[Blurts]

Part and parcel with constantly trying to re-invent the wheel, I'd say.

And that's really were they failed hardest of all. They claimed they were going to reinvent the wheel with the 'next gen in open world games', but what we got actually lacked innovation so much that players could have been forgiven for wondering if they'd bought the wrong game.

The hot dogs and falafel in your tortured metaphor had nothing to do with it.

 

[Gillian_Seed]

(Point-in-case: neither Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning nor Dragon's Dogma ever "topped the charts". Both are continuing to sell to this day. [Playing another run of Dragon's Dogma now, actually.] A title doesn't need to own the entire continent to be a success.)

KOA and Dragons Dogma were failed games but not in the way CP2077 is a failed game. KOA and Dragons Dogma were failed games most likely because they were actual RPG's instead of being a mindless looter first person shooter like Cyberpewpew 2077 and they didn't have a 10th of the marketing push that Cyberpunk 2077 had. If they did, they would have been much more successful. That being said, KOA and Dragons Dogma were actually good games that didn't rely on popular first person shooter gameplay mechanics and an enormous misleading marketing campaign.

KOA and Dragons Dogma are successful now not because they had to be rebuilt or because they were released as early access games but because they were good games or a very good game in terms of Dragons Dogma that slipped under mainstream radar. Cyberpunk 2077 is as mainstream as it gets and it's panned by most expecting anything remotely resembling something with more depth than a puddle.

Post automatically merged: Jan 28, 2021

I added in something, that I think makes your statement correct. Give the modders a chance. Look what they are doing in Fallout 4 even to this day, and you can see the miracles that modders can accomplish.

Whatever the modders add isn't anything that CDPR can claim for the game unless CDPR adds it themselves.

 

[Krul2k]

Tis a goblin!!

 

[Kalfear]

I am not a developer, programmist, or anything like that.

But think about it logically. With the Witcher 3, CDPR had lots of experience. The Witcher 1 and 2 are games with lots of flaws (especially 2, with its clunky inventory, broken minimap etc.) but they provided them experience for the Witcher 3. They knew (more or less) what to do and what not to do, because all the Witcher games share the same setting: a medieval fantasy with lots of combat, intense story, and lore.

This is not the case with Cyberpunk 2077. The game is their first title set in a futuristic setting with guns, cars, skyscrapers. They even changed the camera perspective.

They simply didn't have enough experience with that kind of game, and they failed.

Game didn't fail
It set the all time digital release sales record (after refunds were tallied in no less)
It made back its entire development costs and more in one day

So game did not fail by any means

HOWEVER I do think CDPR reputation has taken a nasty hit that could affect future product sales

Obviously there is the Last gen Console out cry and everything associated to that.
There is a very easy fix to that problem moving forward
But to suggest it comes off as platform flaming so Ill just leave that one at that

The Forced First Person is causing a big backlash from people who over all liked the game
CDPR need to drastically re evaluate their NEW stance on that moving forward
They got it by based on CDPR past reputation but I think that was a one off exception.
If they try to release another FPP only RPG
I think pre order sales will take a nasty hit because of the feedback from CP2077 over issue.

Personally I think the biggest issue in this game is despite repeatably telling people this is a RPG and not a GTA clone.
A big chunk of players still expected "GTA the Cyberpunk version"
So clearly the marketing team needs to fix future messages to get the word out.

One thing I give Obsidian all the credit in the world for is how hard they announced Outer Worlds was NOT a Fall Out clone and people should not expect a Fall Out Clone.
Because when that game was announced, EVERYONE, including myself was thinking Fall Out with more Story and RPG elements.
That's what CDPR needs to learn to do
understand saying it once or twice isn't going to penetrate some players skulls
you have to manage anticipation with honesty.

So there is definate areas to fix moving forward
But to claim this game failed is just flat out wrong

 

[Gillian_Seed]

Tis a goblin!!

Goblins ill like fire!

 

[Krul2k]

Goblins ill like fire!

Even in numbers a weakling is a weakling still


I'll show myself out before the threads closed lol