Mysterious match up

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Mysterious match up

I believe it's a common feeling but I want to see if others have this problem as well.

When you tweak your deck or redesign a deck to counter another faction (for example running vicovaro medic to counter Skellige), the match up suddenly become a number of monster match up in a row, and when you take out your medics Skellige suddenly come back, say 3 Bran and 1 Crach in a row.

I wonder if that's a common experience , since I think more than a few player has experienced such thing, it's so prevalent to a level that it makes me thinking there is a hidden mechanic to let player not meet what they tech against.

Is that a feature or what?
 
Yes. Same finding. First thought was that it only looks like but it isn't true.

Then I made 3 different Bran decks. All around Hjalmaar and Kamby combo.
#1 is based on fast deploying with King Bran of 3 Clan an Craite Raiders and strengthening so to force winning the first round, while having equal no of cards left for both players.
#2 is based on lots of damage cards combined with Clan Tuirseach Axeman.
#3 is based on cards for strengthening the discarded Clan Tuirseach Skirmishers and resurrect ones.

For me it is clear the matchmaking mechanics is rigged.

If I play #1 I see lots of players getting first round cards that I NEVER SEE when playing the other 2 decks. Skellige Storm and Epidemic. Of course KB with Axeman. Seen few times Merigold's Hailstorm and FOR THE VERY FIRST TIME - .Arachas Venom. I swear I have never seen that Arachas in 3 months of play and MH...maybe once or twice...
If I play #2 I see lots of players having in the first round the SINGLE lock card in their decks and Alzur's Thunder. Lots of Ethinne players so that I cannot give too much damage to units. Of course my Skellige Storm stays in the back whenever I could really use it. My Alzur also is hidden whenever I need it. I have it delat however when playing against Ethinne.
If I play #3 guess what. Consume monsters!!!! With #1 and #2 I can barely get such an opponent.

After running almost a month only these 3 decks I am 99.99% convinced that game is rigged. Leave the 0.01% for the probability that I am the unluckiest on Earth.


In ranked I found it is even more rigged, even if I play against same decks as in casual...so that I am not playing that much and remained @ rank 8. But while at this small rank are probably less players I have to wait like 5 minutes plus for a game to start...hard for matchmaking mechanics to find the "proper" enemy.


 
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I've noticed the same thing. I tech in graveyard hate, I run into zero SK. I tech in weather clears, I run into zero Dagon/Eredin.

:huh:
 
Noticed the same; but I remember CDPR said nothing like this happens and its random, so I don't know; but it definitely does not feel like random matchups.

 
I wanted to make a post about this a couple of days ago aswell, after playing like 7 games in a row against dagon i had enough and decided to make a radovid anti-weather deck (i generally dislike radovid), i played 5 matches with it and not a single dagon opponent. After that i changed back to my deck and faced 2 more dagons in row.
How can this be a coincidence?
 
Tech against everything get matched against nothing?^^ This is a well analyzed psychological subject i think. Unless you guys go and test this over a couple thousand games or show it straight in the game code this is most likely just personal feeling and randomness. The funny thing about randomness is that even if its 100% random people will feel like they found some sort of patern;)

Or well let CDPR give an official statement.
 
Ive had this happen to me too quite often. Ill tech in Sweers to deal with NR RHs because I keep getting acrrewes over by them. Then I wont see another NR deck in 10 games. its annoying, but it does have to be a coincidence
 
Once i did anti weather, swarm deck. 3x Lacerate, some first light etc, and 4 matchup in row wasn.t monster. Then i was matched agains monster and was like finnallly, but still i lost connection then and i lost anyway. Switched back to Dagon lol
 
Tschjo;n9337521 said:
Tech against everything get matched against nothing?^^ This is a well analyzed psychological subject i think. Unless you guys go and test this over a couple thousand games or show it straight in the game code this is most likely just personal feeling and randomness. The funny thing about randomness is that even if its 100% random people will feel like they found some sort of patern;)

Or well let CDPR give an official statement.

This can be biased view sure since it's a bunch of personal view of course. But my deck happens to be what you call "tech everything", however the deck is NR so unable to tech against graveyard which usually make me struggle against SK, This feeling is pretty strong if you switch factions often. When I change to NG I got significantly less likely to match Skellige.

I don't mind an official statement or a blacklist system at least available in casual.
 
ResoundingBuahaha;n9338201 said:
I don't mind an official statement

A RED reply from elsewhere:

The matchmaking is not affected by any decks - neither yours nor your opponent's. The matchmaking system is based mainly on your performance, the number of games you played and their outcome.

 
ResoundingBuahaha;n9338321 said:
Ah thank you... but this really does not help explain why so many people experiencing such same thing.

The sampling pool is really too small to draw any conclusions. Even if 100 people on the forum post in this thread saying they experience the same thing, it's not even 0.0001% of the total players. There will always be weird situations with a large player base. In the end, it's still all random.

Looking at another hypothetical situation. Let's say this game has 1 million players. Going first 20 times in a row has the odds of 1 in a million. That means someone probably experienced this (and should buy a lottery ticket). (S)he posts on the forum saying the game is rigged, then one person replies "Hey, I went first 10 times in a row" and another says the same thing. Then players start thinking the game is rigged. In truth, going first 10 times in a row happens to 1 in 1000 players. On a player base of a million, that's still a lot of people who are unlucky.

No conspiracy going on, just cold hard statistics and probabilities.
 
4RM3D;n9338381 said:
No conspiracy going on, just cold hard statistics and probabilities.
Amem to that.

About the OP topic, I use Gwent Tracker. Just to contribute with a sample I have, here are my stats regarding my most played decks vs the oponnents I face with them:
--
DeckMonstersNilfgaardNorthern RealmsScoia'taelSkelligeAll Factions
Foltest Zerglings61 (39%)21 (13%)27 (17%)18 (11%)31 (20%)158
Eithne Dorfs85 (40%)28 (13%)33 (15%)37 (17%)31 (15%)214
Discard Queensguard26 (38%)10 (14%)13 (19%)10 (14%)10 (15%)69

--
These are all ranked games between. You can see that no matter what the deck, the % of matches against each faction remains considerably stable. Of course that some variance is expected due to the sample size and the micro changes in the meta. But I'm pretty sure that the more I play, the more those numbers will tend to even out.
 
Hahaha, man this happens so often that you can only swear at the fact that the game is messing with you. But in reality we are messing with ourselves, and we make minor tweeks to our decks, so the next time we face the deck we just lost to, we will have the upper hand. But then your next match needs your original set up so you lose two times in a row....DON'T BE THIS PERSON. Believe in ur deck and push through the bad beats.
 
4RM3D;n9338381 said:
Looking at another hypothetical situation. Let's say this game has 1 million players. Going first 20 times in a row has the odds of 1 in a million. That means someone probably experienced this (and should buy a lottery ticket). (S)he posts on the forum saying the game is rigged, then one person replies "Hey, I went first 10 times in a row" and another says the same thing. Then players start thinking the game is rigged. In truth, going first 10 times in a row happens to 1 in 1000 players. On a player base of a million, that's still a lot of people who are unlucky.
No conspiracy going on, just cold hard statistics and probabilities.

Man, you should really update your probability theories skills!!!! You are nowhere near to the correct calculations!


First, each player is from the probability point of view an individual events' stream.... THEY ARE NOT ALL TOGETHER. So, instead of adding up individual probabilities you have to multiply them!!!!!.

You can add them probabilities up only and only when an event is influencing the other event. Or players are individuals not connected one to another!!!! Not even at quantum level :p Every single is having his own series of coin results, not influenced by anything!.

Like you a have a fortune cake sliced in one million slices. If 1000 players would eat from same cake one slice each, accumulated probability to get the fortune would be 1000/1000000 = 1 in one thousand.

But, IN FACT, every player is having his own personal unique 1 millions slices cake !!! Moreover (and this is the fun part), he is having s NEW cake every day! (see below the explanation)

Don't have time now, but will come back later to show you the demonstration arriving to the correct figure.

And this number has to take into account the followings:
a)number of games each players is playing per day. Why per day? Because from each player psychological perspective, the pause between gaming sessions will reset the series. If one had 24 games, ended with 10 having the coin and next day starting with 10 games having the coin, he will never say HEY I GOT THE COIN 20 times in a row. He will say I had 2 times 10 coins in a row!.
b) the game age of player. It is correct to say that older players are having a higher chance to have encountered more times the 20 coins event.

This would be only a virtual demonstration cause you put it wrong from the very first beginning!

The correct problem would be:

Which is the probability for a player to have the coin more than "N" games out of his daily "M" games in his X days since he is playing Gwent? And the answer will derive into something similar to a Gauss Bell (my first guess is that it is one indeed) if one wants to aggregate the result for the whole player base.

You were double time wrong in your pseudo demonstration, by missing an important aspect of all those players posting about the coins. None of them was saying that it happened ONCE. They were all dazzled about having this "luck" multiple game sessions!!!! And that means P(N/M) x P (N/M) x ........x P (N/M).

Coming back to the topic, your comparison is like one between a bird and a melon, the common point being that they are of organic nature! You compared a double sided possible result with a 10 sided one. Also you mixed the number of players posting their findings on forums with the player base. How many active writers on such topics of the forum? 100? Guess I overestimate. How many casual players in the player base? 90%? They don't really care!. How many taking a look on probabilities? Insignificant. And so on......Most of the players just play the game as is, as long as the game indulges them without questioning anything!

Even if you take the individual unique series of mysterious events for the only 5 players posting here the numbers are off the normal probabilities grid!
 
Theodrik;n9338421 said:
Amem to that.

About the OP topic, I use Gwent Tracker. Just to contribute with a sample I have, here are my stats regarding my most played decks vs the oponnents I face with them:
--
DeckMonstersNilfgaardNorthern RealmsScoia'taelSkelligeAll Factions
Foltest Zerglings61 (39%)21 (13%)27 (17%)18 (11%)31 (20%)158
Eithne Dorfs85 (40%)28 (13%)33 (15%)37 (17%)31 (15%)214
Discard Queensguard26 (38%)10 (14%)13 (19%)10 (14%)10 (15%)69
--
These are all ranked games between. You can see that no matter what the deck, the % of matches against each faction remains considerably stable. Of course that some variance is expected due to the sample size and the micro changes in the meta. But I'm pretty sure that the more I play, the more those numbers will tend to even out.


The bias of such statistic is, given there's a player who tech against archetype A, assume he is more likely to meet with unfavorable match up archetype B, from opponent B's perspective it must be a favorable match up, Which in turn makes the statistic looks normal (1 good match up and 1 bad match up add into the pool. Repeat this 1 million times for the sake of sample size, of course we are going to see more balanced match up stat accordingly with meta shift.

My point is this situation is more likely to occur when you tech against something, with a complete deck played a thousand time, of course the stat is going to be similar to meta stat.
 
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Stormbuster

The only point I was trying to make was with a large player base, there are bound to be irregularities, which is something you hear players talk about on the forums. No one is going to make a post when everything is perceived to work correctly. No, when things start going south is when the discussion flares up. When those player group together in threads like these, then a false perceptive arises that the game is rigged, even when CDPR says otherwise. You don't need mathematics to explain this. Once again you are saying things out of context.

Your tactic is to throw so many mathematical formulas around until people start drowning in them or stop caring about it. That tactic didn't end well in this thread, never mind the others. Now, you dodged this whole discussion and went straight to example I gave, which was way too simplistic to be used for the discussion you are trying to have now, which was also besides the point.

First of all, I am very well aware the chances of the coinflip are different than that of what the OP mentioned. It was meant as a simplified example. Next, in my example I wasn't talking about the events over time, instead I just said what if a million players played 20 games. That's different from the situation you are describing. When a million players play 20 games then, statistically speaking, one of them had the same coinflip 20 times and approximately a 1000 players had the same coinflip 10 times in a row. Also, I know that you cannot simply add the chances together, after all, if you have a 10% chance of X happening and you roll 10 times then you still haven't got a 100% (10 * 10%) chance. You will never have a 100% chance; but with 99.99%, for the purpose of my example, it might as well have been.

Please, stop beating people to death with numbers, especially when it doesn't add anything to the discussion.
 
ResoundingBuahaha;n9338751 said:
My point is this situation is more likely to occur when you tech against something, with a complete deck played a thousand time, of course the stat is going to be similar to meta stat.
Honestly, what I just read is: My point is I have no point.

You contradict yourself. By your statement if you tech your deck against something specific and queue you probably won't face what you teched against. And I tell you this, you're right! You probably won't face that specific deck on your next match. And do you know why? Well, let's take my sample of 441 games into consideration. The most played faction is Monster, which corresponds to ~39% of all played decks. Let's say that among Monster decks, the most played is the Consume one. Let's assume a very high number here, like ~20% of all played decks is Consume Monster. If you tech against this very deck, that is the most played deck out there, your odds of not facing it on your next match is of 80%! Now imagine that chance against the other less played ones, like that video you posted about a tech against Brann.

Anyway, I'm just trying to point out that it's all a bug of your imagination. I have it clear to me that the situation you present doesn't happen because of a mysterious matchmaking mechanic or flaw, but rather because of pure statistics. And if the numbers can't show you that, then I won't presume that I can. I'm out.
 
Theodrik;n9338961 said:
Honestly, what I just read is: My point is I have no point.

You contradict yourself. By your statement if you tech your deck against something specific and queue you probably won't face what you teched against. And I tell you this, you're right! You probably won't face that specific deck on your next match. And do you know why? Well, let's take my sample of 441 games into consideration. The most played faction is Monster, which corresponds to ~39% of all played decks. Let's say that among Monster decks, the most played is the Consume one. Let's assume a very high number here, like ~20% of all played decks is Consume Monster. If you tech against this very deck, that is the most played deck out there, your odds of not facing it on your next match is of 80%! Now imagine that chance against the other less played ones, like that video you posted about a tech against Brann.

Anyway, I'm just trying to point out that it's all a bug of your imagination. I have it clear to me that the situation you present doesn't happen because of a mysterious matchmaking mechanic or flaw, but rather because of pure statistics. And if the numbers can't show you that, then I won't presume that I can. I'm out.

Relax, I'm not saying your stat is not true or invalid or you are not correct. I simply suggests the stat can be misinterpreted or not. I get your idea.

And I'm also not trying to prove there is a mechanic, This post is just saying this thing happens as if others share same experience, group therapy if you want to call it.
 
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