Negotiating with terrorist Johnny Silverhand

[Guest 4553918]

97 hours in: Corpo Netrunner after trying half a dozen bulids. Romanced Panam, just finished Gimme Danger, lots of side quests. Playing on old PS4 with drifty controller so it has been a challenge. Didn't expect next gen graphics so wasn't disappointed. As I progress the game is getting more unstable so I have stopped playing until further patches/updates. So far:
The game sounds great. If the graphics matched, it would be heaven. Really appreciate the time and effort the dev team put into crafting a dystopia populated by real people. Enjoyed stumbling across abandoned cars, alleys, people with stories to tell. Side characters have depth and unique personalities. Panam, Judy and Takemura are great. Saburo is chilling (okay slight pun intended) and Evelyn brought home the many dangers faces by sex workers. Bravo CDPR for taking that on. Really felt for Rouge. She's a throwback to an earlier time and stays in the business because she'd be dead otherwise. Unlike Johnny, she realizes her time has come and gone. Also really liked what Alt has become after 50 years as an AI. Very interesting character.
Would like to see:
Shared stash between characters. If my male V finds an epic pair of heels once owned by Lady Gaga, he can stash it so my female V can rock it. Also, would allow techie characters to upgrade gear for others. Currently nobody in game can do that for the character. If it makes the game too easy, switch to a higher difficulty.

Biggest gripe: Johnny Silverhand. In a universe of morally compromised characters, he's a megalomaniac and mass murderer. I can feel for a guy who is buried in a landfill (like V) but the fact is he belongs there. He's neither as charismatic nor as compelling (nor as relevant) as he thinks. His imprint on the game has made it difficult to form any attachment to V. V feels more like the player character in a game like Division where you level up and gain gear but don't grow otherwise.
CDPR responded to a ransomware attack by announcing it does not negotiate with terrorists. I salute you, CDPR!
Now why did you create a game with a plot revolving around the player's negotiation with a terrorist? Even a rocker voiced by Keanu? (who also did a great job)

I'm keeping the game loaded to see what it becomes and I mean it when I say I appreciate the tons of work that went into making it. Finally, THANK YOU FOR PISCES! I'm an avid scuba diver and Judy's dive animations were impressive. V needs to take lessons from her. And remember feed the cat.

 

[mbrto]

afaik you arent forced to do anything johnny tells you
you can ignore his requests and shut him up with pills
most of the time you can do the exact opposite of what he wants

i dont see what the problem is here

 

[Bozobub]

I think OP is commenting on how Johnny's character eclipses yours, more and more as time goes on, eventually literally, in the end. It's hard to maintain emotional investment in a character you've developed, with that in mind, especially since Johnny, simply put, is terrorist slime.

 

[Buckadoz]

afaik you arent forced to do anything johnny tells you
you can ignore his requests and shut him up with pills
most of the time you can do the exact opposite of what he wants

i dont see what the problem is here

You can, except it isn't really a choice, since if you go against Johnny you get an ending that is obviously a punishment. Johnny oozes moral indignation and self righteousness, but he didn't actually do anything about any corps until one killed his ex (which his arrogant ass thought was about getting to him, despite her being the best netrunner in NC) at which point he decides the best course of action is to nuke a building in the middle of a city. It's a little nuts that the ending where you go against what he wants is so explicitly a punishment.

 

[hulkman2456]

You can, except it isn't really a choice, since if you go against Johnny you get an ending that is obviously a punishment. Johnny oozes moral indignation and self righteousness,

You have other endings that aren't evil. Only one is. Actions from Arasaka he hates. Has done way worse than Johnny has. That's the perspective of this world. Johnny is total garbage. But there's bigger garbage in NC. Sorry, but V is also not a saint. If you hate Johnny. You have to hate V as well.

 

[a3n3a]

And even if you agree with his ideals, in the long run Johnny's actions probably solidified corpo rule. I mean, using a nuke to try and take down the symbol of corporate feudalism is the worst way to go about it. The quite literal fallout from this act of destruction must still affect the denizens of NC in '77, and gave the corpo overlords a broad platform to justify harsh repression against people who critique this neoliberal dystopia, because you know, the most outspoken critique of that system had to use a f*cking nuclear warhead...
Damn you Silverhand.

 

[hulkman2456]

And even if you agree with his ideals, in the long run Johnny's actions probably solidified corpo rule. I mean, using a nuke to try and take down the symbol of corporate feudalism is the worst way to go about it. The quite literal fallout from this act of destruction must still affect the denizens of NC in '77, and gave the corpo overlords a broad platform to justify harsh repression against people who critique this neoliberal dystopia, because you know, the most outspoken critique of that system had to use a f*cking nuclear warhead...
Damn you Silverhand.

Than V is also guilty of this same ending.

 

[exxxed]

I think OP is commenting on how Johnny's character eclipses yours, more and more as time goes on, eventually literally, in the end. It's hard to maintain emotional investment in a character you've developed, with that in mind, especially since Johnny, simply put, is terrorist slime.

I think we're overlooking the small fact of the matter that The Relic is overwriting V's personality, by the end V literally talks and reacts like Johnny (there's a faded Johnny voice that is present more and more behind V's dialogue the closer you get to the ending).

As for Johnny, it's a redemption arc, he's trying to redeem himself, the fact that people don't like him is exactly the point, if you give him a chance you can discover how broken and deeply scarred he truly is and how much he regrets everything and the fact that he never had a second chance.

Ironically doing my Corpo playthrough whit The Devil ending, not giving Johnny the time of day at any point made me care for Johnny even more, because what he says at the end is truly heartbreaking for V even if they do not realize it at the time.

Post automatically merged: Feb 15, 2021

You can, except it isn't really a choice, since if you go against Johnny you get an ending that is obviously a punishment. Johnny oozes moral indignation and self righteousness, but he didn't actually do anything about any corps until one killed his ex (which his arrogant ass thought was about getting to him, despite her being the best netrunner in NC) at which point he decides the best course of action is to nuke a building in the middle of a city. It's a little nuts that the ending where you go against what he wants is so explicitly a punishment.

I think you're mistaking his facade for his actual character, Johnny Silverhand's entire persona is created to be anti establishment, corporate and forces of entropy. But in reality he's a war veteran that suffers from PTSD and remorse for the actions he's done that ultimately affected everyone around him and ended up paying the ultimate price for it.

 

[Ayinde_Palmer]

You can, except it isn't really a choice, since if you go against Johnny you get an ending that is obviously a punishment. Johnny oozes moral indignation and self righteousness, but he didn't actually do anything about any corps until one killed his ex (which his arrogant ass thought was about getting to him, despite her being the best netrunner in NC) at which point he decides the best course of action is to nuke a building in the middle of a city. It's a little nuts that the ending where you go against what he wants is so explicitly a punishment.

You can ignore Johnny the whole time and still get panam ending.

but the real story of Johnny is different

Johnny spent his entire career as a musician speaking out against corporations. Then one day, Arasaka kidnaps and kills his girlfriend, and tries to kill him in the process, twice. He fails to save her. Saddened, he goes back to music, getting angrier and angrier.
10 years later, he finds out she didnt die, they trapped her conciousness in the thier soul prison, and have been killing and stealing the consciousness of their enemies for the last 10 years. They have also been waging an open war in major cities for a couple years, (4th corporate war) with their competitors.

Thats actually when he decides to nuke the tower.

this is Johnny engram's memory of events. Its not completely accurate, its not certain if this is because soulkiller they used on him was not as good as it is now, or they specifically altered his memories, or he himself saw it differently.

the real truth is a little different, but this is the knowledge the player has.

Also, he wasn't completely wrong, Arasaka did consider him an enemy. (saburo's diary) Which might explain them trying to kill him twice in 2013.

 

[CS554]

I really appreciate this terrorist in our head angle played here.

 

[Ayinde_Palmer]

And even if you agree with his ideals, in the long run Johnny's actions probably solidified corpo rule. I mean, using a nuke to try and take down the symbol of corporate feudalism is the worst way to go about it. The quite literal fallout from this act of destruction must still affect the denizens of NC in '77, and gave the corpo overlords a broad platform to justify harsh repression against people who critique this neoliberal dystopia, because you know, the most outspoken critique of that system had to use a f*cking nuclear warhead...
Damn you Silverhand.

actually, his actions did the opposite, I dunno if this is in game(if it is, its on shards), but I been reading cyberpunk red, which is supposed to be cannon to 2077, that action ended the corporate wars, and governments throughout the world limited corporate influence. Arasaka took a significant hit and had to retreat from the world stage, Militech was taken over by the NUSA. Its only in the last 15-20 years that corporations have begun to dominate again. But they haven't had major wars since.

Also most people don't believe/ know Johnny was involved in the attack, other than the riots he started before the attack. The official story was arasaka did it as a resource denial maneuver against militech taking the tower. Some believe Militech did it. The Johnny did it theory is rumor and considered a conspiracy theory. Its also underplayed in Johnny's memories, but militech was in fact involved.

 

[a3n3a]

...and governments throughout the world limited corporate influence...
...Its also underplayed in Johnny's memories, but militech was in fact involved.

Ah, that's new, for me at least .
I've read some parts of it, especially the sections about netrunners because i find this concept fascinating (sadly the missions with the VDBs are incredibly underused).

On Johnny's character; detonating a nuclear warhead in the city center makes for great visuals (cfr the interogation scene with Saburo), but it's pretty much the most inexcusable thing one could do. Yes he regrets it, and yes he has some kind of redemption arc, but I just can't help myself wondering how easier it would be for most people to be able to sympathize with him if he had just used a non nuclear weapon

 

[OG_VELI]

this is Johnny engram's memory of events. Its not completely accurate, its not certain if this is because soulkiller they used on him was not as good as it is now, or they specifically altered his memories, or he himself saw it differently.

Also most people don't believe/ know Johnny was involved in the attack, other than the riots he started before the attack. The official story was arasaka did it as a resource denial maneuver against militech taking the tower. Some believe Militech did it. The Johnny did it theory is rumor and considered a conspiracy theory. Its also underplayed in Johnny's memories, but militech was in fact involved.

 

[Ayinde_Palmer]

Ah, that's new, for me at least .
I've read some parts of it, especially the sections about netrunners because i find this concept fascinating (sadly the missions with the VDBs are incredibly underused).

On Johnny's character; detonating a nuclear warhead in the city center makes for great visuals (cfr the interogation scene with Saburo), but it's pretty much the most inexcusable thing one could do. Yes he regrets it, and yes he has some kind of redemption arc, but I just can't help myself wondering how easier it would be for most people to be able to sympathize with him if he had just used a non nuclear weapon

the official plan was for the nuke to go off underground at the database which would have shielded the damage. it getting detonated topside was not according to plan. you can see from the post above the real story, But yeah, johnnies memories are somewhat false, I didnt bring that part up, because the player probably wouldn't know the real story. I just shared what Johnny engram, and other ingame sources tell us about johnnies motivations

 

[Rensarvik]

It is quite amusing how they put a man who exploded nuke in the middle of city into player's head, but never really allow player to discuss the event seriously with him. You can't really question Johnny about whether it was really worth it, considering that 50 years later everything is pretty much exactly same, or point out that he was basically just Militech pawn in corpo war. There is memorial to the nuclear attack, but if you walk though it there is no reaction whatsoever from Johnny, even though he sure loves to give smartass comments in random bars and whatnot. Whole nuclear mass murder is basically just glossed over, while player is being fast tracked towards becoming best buddies with Keanu Johnny.

 

[exxxed]

View attachment 11177021

Really good stuff this, thanks!

 

[Tofujunky]

That's why you should:

Spoiler

ignore Johnny and rescue Takemura when the hideout explodes. Then go with Takemura to Hanako and fight Yorinobu together. That's how the game lets you "resist" becoming Johnny. I loved telling Johnny to fuck off and let me live my life in the Devil's ending.

 

[Ayinde_Palmer]

It is quite amusing how they put a man who exploded nuke in the middle of city into player's head, but never really allow player to discuss the event seriously with him. You can't really question Johnny about whether it was really worth it, considering that 50 years later everything is pretty much exactly same, or point out that he was basically just Militech pawn in corpo war. There is memorial to the nuclear attack, but if you walk though it there is no reaction whatsoever from Johnny, even though he sure loves to give smartass comments in random bars and whatnot. Whole nuclear mass murder is basically just glossed over, while player is being fast tracked towards becoming best buddies with Keanu Johnny.

Johnny actually as a character is very defensive, and secretive, we only know as much as we do because the relic forced some of our memories to be shared. There are only a few moments where you can see his character. The most telling thing is he doesn't force control of V, and helps v retain control/survive. Regardless to how your relationship goes. That and you can see how they choose to live if they get the body.

and you really don't have to be his friend, you can treat him like an enemy.

Post automatically merged: Feb 15, 2021

That's why you should:

Spoiler

save Takemura and go with him to Hanako and fight Yorinobu together. That's how the game lets you "resist" becoming Johnny. I loved telling Johnny to fuck off and let me live my life in the Devil's ending.

to each their own but hanako and saburo are the worst humans, and takamura has pledged undying loyalty to them

 

[Tofujunky]

Johnny actually as a character is very defensive, and secretive, we only know as much as we do because the relic forced some of our memories to be shared. There are only a few moments where you can see his character. The most telling thing is he doesn't force control of V, and helps v retain control/survive. Regardless to how your relationship goes. That and you can see how they choose to live if they get the body.

and you really don't have to be his friend, you can treat him like an enemy.

Post automatically merged: Feb 15, 2021

to each their own but hanako and saburo are the worst humans, and takamura has pledged undying loyalty to them

Hanako isn't really a bad person:

Spoiler

she doesn't kill anyone other than Yorinobu and she actually saved Yorinobu in the past. Both Hanako and Yorinobu knew that Saburo wanted his engram in Yorinobus body. They both are nuts that let him do that.

Takemura is really no one special, he's just a high ranking soldier, basically like a daimyo in feudal Japan. The fact he pledges undying loyalty to the Arasakas is really meaningless under that lense. He's just a peasent turned "samurai" that follows Bushido and Samurai things like the other children chosen for these jobs in his commumity. I like the fact that he's basically a nobody that just follows the same path as other nobodys in his home country. Makes his character more appealing to my V, gives my V a chance to teach him something, and vice versa.

Saburo's terrible but this is not even about the Arasakas. It's about who matters to you more, Johnny or Takemura.

 

[Ayinde_Palmer]

Hanako isn't really a bad person, she doesn't kill anyone other than Yorinobu and she actually saved Yorinobu in the past. Both Hanako and Yorinobu knew that Saburo wanted his engram in Yorinobus body. They both are nuts that let him do that.

And Saburo's terrible but this is not even about the Arasakas. It's about who matters to you more, Johnny or Takemura.

Hanako knowingly brings back saburo, who according to his diary, told hanako he would wipe everyone in night city if he felt like it, right before seeing Yorinobu. Siding with takamura means being a big part of bringing saburo back to the world/power.

Its interesting to focus more on the personal, but saburo in power is a big price to pay