New Game+ explanation needed

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I normally play games very slowly and just enjoy the experience. I'm not really interested in trying to "get to the next part" quickly. Quite the opposite, I tend to take a lot of time to just wander around, explore nooks and crannies, take time to immerse in the world.

100% YES! This is why I LOVE that AAA games theses days often include some kind of parkour. I am playing Outer Worlds now (because 1.5 patch will not run without flatlining) I would give the game a 8 or 9 out of 10, but Geeezzz suuus it is so depressing when I see some pipes on a building or a stack of rocks that I know in any other game I could climb up on. They love their invisible walls in Outer Worlds!

I am dreaming of when they open CP2077 to official moding, that has always been my NG+ for 20 years.
 
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Huh? soooo... that was not for you * , why did you think it was? Or was that just an opportunistic reply?
I actually agree with you and others that want NG+.
Although I never used such a thing and may never. I did not know it existed, not in any of the games I played anyway.

* for the player that wanted to start a new game with the same character model but NOTHING else and was wanting to do the grind again.

That's a good call actually. I could do that if I have the save. I'm not sure I do though.

The only thing I'd worry about is if some stuff they've fixed benefits from a completely new game being started from version 1.5
 
I dont get the NG+ whine, tell me one game where NG+ was great?

i would take something like Far Cry 6 episode 1, game within game myself. Or Cyberpunk Racing game. Etc.
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I personally want an NG+ because the game is too damn short. The RPG element of the character development feels unbalanced to me compared to the length of the game. It somehow doesn't satiate me. The game is already over by the time I'm end-game'd out. Minor sides like gigs get old fast, and the thought of having to go through all that again just to get the money I need and the stuff I want to try just to re-run the game, makes me feel tired.

I think I played 50+. Thats isnt short. Sure if you rush through the main story, its probably 20 hour. It felt short, but if you did all exploration and events and stuff it wasnt. The game was also one big pancake, it probably made it feel even shorter, CDPR gotta go with more rounder design imho, Witcher 3 was much better at this.
 
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I dont get the NG+ whine, tell me one game where NG+ was great?
(Before I answer this, note, there is a caveat.)

Dark Souls -- really good NG+, new weapons, new items, new armors, etc., clever and subtle mechanical changes, keeping the player on their toes, a few more lore tidbits that help players to eventually figure out what is a freaking awesome premise for the games.

Salt and Sanctuary -- like Dark Souls, but in 2D. Same NG+ approach, but with even more new stuff in NG+.

Dragon's Dogma -- absolutely phenomenal use of NG+ as it almost begs you to play different ways. Plus, as the player makes key decisions at key points, making different decisions at different points and seeing the different results starts to make everything about the story and characters make sense. So, the only way to get the "full story" is to play through multiple times, multiple ways, and then put everything together into one big picture. And that final story is fantastic -- especially how they connect the idea of the player continuously starting over. (This is a genius piece of work; it's a shame it never really caught on.)

Caveat:

I don't really like NG+. Not into it and generally won't utilize it even if it's there. I'd rather just start over with a brand new character.
 
Mass effect andromeda hade a pretty decent NG+ with continued armor leveling and weapons. Some pretty fun builds could be achived too since you kept on leveling. the story was still kinda meh tho ;)
 
Dragon's Dogma -- absolutely phenomenal use of NG+ as it almost begs you to play different ways. Plus, as the player makes key decisions at key points, making different decisions at different points and seeing the different results starts to make everything about the story and characters make sense. So, the only way to get the "full story" is to play through multiple times, multiple ways, and then put everything together into one big picture. And that final story is fantastic -- especially how they connect the idea of the player continuously starting over. (This is a genius piece of work; it's a shame it never really caught on.)

Hmm that sounds actually pretty good if true. I played Dragon Dogma but never bothered with DLCs. Sounds damn expensive though, almost like overhaul for Cyberpunk 2077.

I still think "game within game" or somekind of "spin-off" is much smarter thing to do. They could change the games rules like Far Cry6's Insanity, or then new kind of spin-off ala Xcom Chimera Squad. My NG+ experiences havent been that good sadly, most of the time its just extra soulless meaningless grind, you repeat the same story etc.
 
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100% YES! This is why I LOVE that AAA games theses days often include some kind of parkour. I am playing Outer Worlds now (because 1.5 patch will not run without flatlining) I would give the game a 8 or 9 out of 10, but Geeezzz suuus it is so depressing when I see some pipes on a building or a stack of rocks that I know in any other game I could climb up on. They love their invisible walls in Outer Worlds!

I am dreaming of when they open CP2077 to official moding, that has always been my NG+ for 20 years.
It was a while ago again by now. But I took FO4 out for a spin at one time after playing Cyberpunk.

And very quickly I came to notice the 'feature' where enemies navigatie elevated terrain for shit and you could not 'climb' up something because there is no such thing as grappling the roofedge.

Only then did it dawn on me how much that little feature can make a world of difference.
The idea that I could not cimb up a ledge of 1/1,5m was outright crazy.
 
Honestly, I don't see the point in a NG+ where you are already maxed out to a very low level (50 is not that much), you can change the difficult at any time and you can't even re-spec your character attributes.
So it just makes sense to start a new character. Which is quite annoying to be honest. I would totally play NG+ if you could unlock more levels, more things etc. Otherwise it's pointless
 
Honestly, I don't see the point in a NG+ where you are already maxed out to a very low level (50 is not that much), you can change the difficult at any time and you can't even re-spec your character attributes.
So it just makes sense to start a new character. Which is quite annoying to be honest. I would totally play NG+ if you could unlock more levels, more things etc. Otherwise it's pointless
A simple fix would be to let you respec your attributes at the beginning of a NG+.
I'm all for NG+, it adds replayability and it's great for those of us that just wanna enjoy a replay of the story with our badass weapons/armor and try different builds without having to grind all over again.
 
I'm all for NG+, it adds replayability and it's great for those of us that just wanna enjoy a replay of the story with our badass weapons/armor and try different builds without having to grind all over again.
Just a detail, if we take TW3 as example of CDPR NG+, your "badass weapons/armors" don't remain "badass" for very long... (due to leveled items/enemies)
Your "end-game level 30 sword" is as useful as a toothpick after few levels.
 
Hmm that sounds actually pretty good if true. I played Dragon Dogma but never bothered with DLCs. Sounds damn expensive though, almost like overhaul for Cyberpunk 2077.

I still think "game within game" or somekind of "spin-off" is much smarter thing to do. They could change the games rules like Far Cry6's Insanity, or then new kind of spin-off ala Xcom Chimera Squad. My NG+ experiences havent been that good sadly, most of the time its just extra soulless meaningless grind, you repeat the same story etc.
I'd say that the Dark Arisen Expansion is definitely more grindy. It's still fun, and you can get some pretty cool loot, but it's mostly like a single, big dungeon. The main campaign is where most of the cool story stuff is hidden. I'd say that you can get pretty much the entire premise and all of the most important story and lore details after 3 playthroughs (NG++), provided you choose differently at each of the key story moments for each playthrough. Gameplay wise, too, it's so easy to totally switch your character's class, skills, gear, etc. that the game seems to pressure you into switching things up as you play. And it all has a cumulative, macro effect as well. I especially like how they work the "restart" into the story itself, though. That's what really got me.

For CP2077, I don't think the story really lends itself to an NG+ formula. Not that it can't be done -- worked more or less fine with TW3 -- but I'm not sure that there's any way to deliver a "return" on it. Like you, I normally don't even bother with NG+, gaining "prestige" ranks in shooters, etc.

But, like anything else, there are definitely ways to make it work!


Honestly, I don't see the point in a NG+ where you are already maxed out to a very low level (50 is not that much), you can change the difficult at any time and you can't even re-spec your character attributes.
So it just makes sense to start a new character. Which is quite annoying to be honest. I would totally play NG+ if you could unlock more levels, more things etc. Otherwise it's pointless
Well, leveling systems are arbitrary. In the original D&D, characters were max level when they hit 20. They later expanded it to involve "godlike" characters that could reach level 30. That's how most western RPGs rolled for long time. Gaining a level was supposed to be a monumental achievement. Literally game-changing at certain milestones, where characters would attain completely new abilities automatically, based on their class. The focus of the games was much different, as well. Not so much combat-combat-combat. Much more story, lore, teamwork, problem solving, mysteries, etc.

JRPGs normally took on a more number-crunchy approach overall, and in many of their games, characters would gain a level for killing a rat, and 5 minutes later, they'd gain another level for collecting all 5 shiny rocks. This was the more incremental / immediate-reward approach that began to become popular in a gaming crowd that preferred more action-oriented experiences.

Nowadays, we've got some evolutions of that system that blend in the best of both worlds. The whole Diablo style of Action-RPG coupled with other titles that started experimenting with skill "trees" and classless systems directly gave rise to the mechanics that we see with modern RPGs and Action-RPGs. NG+ was the next, logical step, as designers tried to compete with the limitless play offered by MMOs.

But...I'd still argue that it simply won't work well for everything. If I'm a creator, and I see that my "NG+" will simply be tweaking values for existing weapons, or trying to hamfist new gameplay mechanics into the existing system, that might come across as clunky and lame. I may simply decide, "No, that's not really in-line with my game's design."
 
It was a while ago again by now. But I took FO4 out for a spin at one time after playing Cyberpunk.

And very quickly I came to notice the 'feature' where enemies navigatie elevated terrain for shit and you could not 'climb' up something because there is no such thing as grappling the roofedge.

Only then did it dawn on me how much that little feature can make a world of difference.
The idea that I could not cimb up a ledge of 1/1,5m was outright crazy.

Bethesda SHOULD have better grappling in their later games ( morrowind had levitation spells). Mod makers keep putting this in TES games however so far Beth's games (except for fallout 4) do not include collision for many of the roofs. I made a parkour mod for Skyrim and discovered that about half of the high points did not have collision (you would fall right thru the world or get trapped once you got up on the roof.)

HOWEVER...

They (Bethesda) DID give the player the ability to get up on almost all the high points in fallout 4. But you have to get the jetpack power armor to do it. I play Fallout 4 with a mod for a "portable" jet pack (no power armor needed). That alone has added another 100 hours of playtime to my fallout 4 by allowing me to almost double the exploration footprint and it gave me a way to find hidden items and a few quests that I had missed by only walking the earth! :p

There is an entire OTHER Fallout territory (with a few of their own stories) hidden up on top of the "floating islands" of the collapsed freeways!

With so much more to explore now, I created a mod to take advantage of this called the Happy Scrapper where you find parts in the wasteland and build a complete automobile, system by system. (brake system, transmission system, fuel system and so on). This (my crafting mod) keeps me playing Fallout 4 a few times a month even now in 2022. Not because I want to grind forever, but because it give me an excuse to go enjoy the wonderous Fallout world building once in a while. And Fallout 4 runs better now (with a performance mod and bug fix mod ) than most games (that I play) made these days.

In fact now that I think about it Fallout 4 has not CTD on me for a few years.

Highest point in Fallout 4:

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Green arrow show a large room WITH items in it that looks like the DEV cut some some story line or was going to be a player home.
Red Arrow is a body with a journal telling his story and items and I think there was a mini quest.
Both could only be reached with jet pack.

Bodies, some stories and MANY items to scavenge on various rooftops and high ledge points in the base game.
.
EDIT: Also I should make it clear this jet pack is actually a "jump pack". The rockets would only blast for a few seconds then you would have to wait a short cool down. So you HAD to plan your jumps and pathways up to the higher points you may want to get to. And if you fell using the portable jump pack you would die. Trinity tower took me a little more than a game hour to vertically maneuver to the very top. So this is a LOT like Parkour.
 
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Just a detail, if we take TW3 as example of CDPR NG+, your "badass weapons/armors" don't remain "badass" for very long... (due to leveled items/enemies)
Your "end-game level 30 sword" is as useful as a toothpick after few levels.
Which is precisely why I didn't like how they did NG+ in TW3 and have criticized it in the past... so hopefully they don't reuse the same method. The Mass Effect series is a better example of NG+.
 
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Which is precisely why I didn't like how they did NG+ in TW3 and have criticized it in the past... so hopefully they don't use the same method. The Mass Effect series is a better example of NG+.
I never try on Mass Effect NG+. When I import a save, it's always from the previous episode (and when I play, I generally play the 3 episodes in a row).
But I never used NG+ in any game. I always delete my previous saves and start from scratch in all games (I like the beginning when you have "nothing", so NG+ is not for me, for sure). As far as I remember, the only game that I use a kind of NG+ (if it could be considered as NG+), it's BD3 in chaos mode... :)
 
For CP2077, I don't think the story really lends itself to an NG+ formula. Not that it can't be done -- worked more or less fine with TW3 -- but I'm not sure that there's any way to deliver a "return" on it. Like you, I normally don't even bother with NG+, gaining "prestige" ranks in shooters, etc.

I think spin-off is much better. Lets face it theres tons and tons of Cyberpunk "assets" as far I know. Cars, NPCs, Interiors, Clothes, Cyberware, Clothes etc etc. Entire City in fact, they could run all kind of spin-offs thru it.

At least we can finally say the MP was buried... I would take spin-off over NG+ in any day.
 
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But I never used NG+ in any game. I always delete my previous saves and start from scratch in all games (I like the beginning when you have "nothing", so NG+ is not for me, for sure).
I used it only once in the Fallen order. But it wasnt what i expected. if i remember well, all my skills were reseted too so it wasnt such fun how it could be. Some mod that fixed this came later on nexusmods, but too late for me. it looks we have opposite preferences about new game+ :)
 
At least we can finally say the MP was buried...

Unfortunately the reason we can say this difienetfly for CP2077 is the same reason we can say almost difienetfly they WILL have it in their following games (including other cyberpunk games) in the new engine.
 
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