These sound cool and will bring a much needed sense of freshness I missed for quite a while.
There is really nothing as spicy, in terms of leaks, as leader abilities and I actually started feeling we had too few.
In my opinion there should not be a staple leader ability and Jason's argument for leaders to get better with new releases (his example was Stockpile) is quite solid.
So I am of the opinion that new leader abilities should be introduced, even if the old ones are not perfectly balanced on the same powerlevel yet.
Uprising will definitely be better than Meve's ability, given that Meve's ability is weakening itself by being forced to constantly put out pressure slowly (which only Fruits of Ysgith can do properly, which is why it is the only one of these abilities that is powerful enough to see play), although Meve can turn on more things.
Spawning a Scytheman is already a 7 point swing with no boosted units prior to the 4 charges (and 4 neutral power targets), so it is an 11 point swing at worst, likely triggering synergies (e.g. Tridam Infantryman and Anna Strenger) and getting stronger as a finisher with every other boosted unit.
Also Vissegerd can be a good 11+ for 8 with this leader ability (which will hopefully increase its playrate).
Overwhelming Hunger is a massive buff to deathwish (after their own leader got murdered) and is basically a reintroduction of Death's Shadow with 2 more points tacked onto every charge and flexibility when to use the charges, this will definitely see play and is a much needed buff to monsters.
Mahakam Forge is a leader ability adding 5+ points and adding back the old open beta Foltest ability (with armor instead of boosting), which fits quite much with the resilient theme of Dwarves (although I have to say I am biased, since Dwarves are one of my favourite archtypes in the game).
Also Jason spoilered that a few old Dwarves will get buffed and that the new expansion would include Dwarf support.
Also Dwarves finally get an own leader ability (rather than just having Mystic Echo into old Mahakam Justice exploits).
Imposter sounds interesting, it is a lot less save in what it does than Ardal's seizing ability, however it has locking synergy (stealing, destroying and turning on Infiltrator) and is much more reliant on actually hitting an engine or unit with high base power.
Hidden Cache is basically another approach on King of Beggars ability to support and majorly buffs Hoards, hopefully to the point of currently unviable ones coming together in a deck and if SY lacks one thing it is fleshed out archtypes, which this will hopefully combat with another theme.
Blaze of Glory is the most basic idea of how Skellige works and it almost seems like a joke that this did not exist before.
It has grave setup, removal and basically a 100% consistent Hjalmar effect (and one can still run Hjalmar as well).
All of them look absolutely amazing.
I have to say I am quite hyped for them and the upcoming expansion, given that that one apparently will support Dwarves and the Wild Hunt(?).
Playing around with them will be a lot of fun.
I am just confused by how those will be unlocked.
Will everyone just get them right away ?
After all these are the first new abilities since the leader skins are decoupled from their abilities.
There is really nothing as spicy, in terms of leaks, as leader abilities and I actually started feeling we had too few.
In my opinion there should not be a staple leader ability and Jason's argument for leaders to get better with new releases (his example was Stockpile) is quite solid.
So I am of the opinion that new leader abilities should be introduced, even if the old ones are not perfectly balanced on the same powerlevel yet.
Uprising will definitely be better than Meve's ability, given that Meve's ability is weakening itself by being forced to constantly put out pressure slowly (which only Fruits of Ysgith can do properly, which is why it is the only one of these abilities that is powerful enough to see play), although Meve can turn on more things.
Spawning a Scytheman is already a 7 point swing with no boosted units prior to the 4 charges (and 4 neutral power targets), so it is an 11 point swing at worst, likely triggering synergies (e.g. Tridam Infantryman and Anna Strenger) and getting stronger as a finisher with every other boosted unit.
Also Vissegerd can be a good 11+ for 8 with this leader ability (which will hopefully increase its playrate).
Overwhelming Hunger is a massive buff to deathwish (after their own leader got murdered) and is basically a reintroduction of Death's Shadow with 2 more points tacked onto every charge and flexibility when to use the charges, this will definitely see play and is a much needed buff to monsters.
Mahakam Forge is a leader ability adding 5+ points and adding back the old open beta Foltest ability (with armor instead of boosting), which fits quite much with the resilient theme of Dwarves (although I have to say I am biased, since Dwarves are one of my favourite archtypes in the game).
Also Jason spoilered that a few old Dwarves will get buffed and that the new expansion would include Dwarf support.
Also Dwarves finally get an own leader ability (rather than just having Mystic Echo into old Mahakam Justice exploits).
Imposter sounds interesting, it is a lot less save in what it does than Ardal's seizing ability, however it has locking synergy (stealing, destroying and turning on Infiltrator) and is much more reliant on actually hitting an engine or unit with high base power.
Hidden Cache is basically another approach on King of Beggars ability to support and majorly buffs Hoards, hopefully to the point of currently unviable ones coming together in a deck and if SY lacks one thing it is fleshed out archtypes, which this will hopefully combat with another theme.
Blaze of Glory is the most basic idea of how Skellige works and it almost seems like a joke that this did not exist before.
It has grave setup, removal and basically a 100% consistent Hjalmar effect (and one can still run Hjalmar as well).
All of them look absolutely amazing.
I have to say I am quite hyped for them and the upcoming expansion, given that that one apparently will support Dwarves and the Wild Hunt(?).
Playing around with them will be a lot of fun.
I am just confused by how those will be unlocked.
Will everyone just get them right away ?
After all these are the first new abilities since the leader skins are decoupled from their abilities.
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The stream Jason Slama was on earlier. I checked the VOD.
And since that information is still not on this thread, these leader abilities are coming with the patch April 2nd.
Even though i really like new leader abilities (i was close to getting Mastery on all of them, im at 29/36 right now, then what would i play?), it's obviously a case of powercreep, most of these new abilities will completely replace the previous popular ones, and not just on the first few days when they're new and everyone wants to try them.
The NG and SY ones in particular, seem broken right from the get-go, i wish the dev team tested them further and balanced them as to not cause another Dethlaff, where it became so dominant it had to be nerfed within a week of release. (and MO and NR abilities also seem really really strong)
Even though i really like new leader abilities (i was close to getting Mastery on all of them, im at 29/36 right now, then what would i play?), it's obviously a case of powercreep, most of these new abilities will completely replace the previous popular ones, and not just on the first few days when they're new and everyone wants to try them.
The NG and SY ones in particular, seem broken right from the get-go, i wish the dev team tested them further and balanced them as to not cause another Dethlaff, where it became so dominant it had to be nerfed within a week of release. (and MO and NR abilities also seem really really strong)
It is funny you mentioned these (NG and SY), given that they appear to be among the weaker ones of these leader abilities.
Hidden Cache is basically moving one 1 level up in terms of hoards, of course Saul, Peaches, The Flying Redanian and Sea Jackal are strong, however unlike Off the Books this passive ability adds flexibility over more points (saving 1 coin on a tribute is effectively worth a point).
Beyond that Hidden Cache can be worth up to 3x3 coins, while Off the Books is worth 3x2 coins, although Off the Books is a lot more flexible and unless one bleeds (or gets bled) in round 2 one will only get 2 uses, so the same number of coins as on Off the Books, only that that one (Off the Books) can use them all in the same round if one wishes.
Imposter sounds strong as it has lock synergy and has no power cap on the target, however unlike Enslave this ability has a far lower floor and the engine can be turned on again with a simple purify.
Imposter also, while adding 2 points on the "stolen" unit, does not add the points of the target twice, as Enslave does.
Enslave is worth 2xP and Imposter 1xB+2 (where P is the Power of the target and B is the base strenght of the target).
Imposter seems like Enslave with a lower floor, maybe higher ceiling and some locking synergy (Slave Driver [meh], Vattier De Rideaux [meh, unless used with Blizzard Potion and even then kind of bad], Master of Disguise [a good (now) consistent engine] and Vanhemar [good tall punish]).
All in all they appear to be far from broken (at the very least compared to already existing leader abilities).
If anything the only potentially broken/overtuned one would be Overwhelming Hunger, given that that one is a straight upgrade from the old Death Shadow ability, which was already decent (before it was gutted).
That being said, with MO being at Tier 2-3 or lower I am not sure if that would be too problematic anyways.
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Blaze of glory - cool, first cards that come to mind are morkvarg for 5+5, and jutta for possible 12 and getting her in graveyard for sigrdrifa or hjalmar, so it's flexible and strong
Hidden cache - is the most interesting, because you just HAVE TO win round one for this to be good (possibly great), if you don't - it's trash, and i like that
Imposter - is also interesting, not as good against engines/orders as enslave (less points and your opponent can just purify the lock), but can possibly get even more points vs tall units and combo with vanhemar, or get and destroy opponents defender (good vs NR MO SK a bit worse vs ST but still good). It's absolute garbage against swarmy low units with no abilities, i doubt it will see much play on higher levels, depends on the meta.
Mahakam forge - can't say much before seeing changes to cards
Overwhelming hunger - Looks amazing, this and hidden cache will definitely be the first two i'm trying out
Uprising - although it looks decent, i'm afraid nr will just be getting bled, and this doesn't look too good in a short round 3 (not terrible tho, even if you only boost 2 units scytheman will play for 5 so it's 9 points, which is respectable)
Hidden cache - is the most interesting, because you just HAVE TO win round one for this to be good (possibly great), if you don't - it's trash, and i like that
Imposter - is also interesting, not as good against engines/orders as enslave (less points and your opponent can just purify the lock), but can possibly get even more points vs tall units and combo with vanhemar, or get and destroy opponents defender (good vs NR MO SK a bit worse vs ST but still good). It's absolute garbage against swarmy low units with no abilities, i doubt it will see much play on higher levels, depends on the meta.
Mahakam forge - can't say much before seeing changes to cards
Overwhelming hunger - Looks amazing, this and hidden cache will definitely be the first two i'm trying out
Uprising - although it looks decent, i'm afraid nr will just be getting bled, and this doesn't look too good in a short round 3 (not terrible tho, even if you only boost 2 units scytheman will play for 5 so it's 9 points, which is respectable)
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Reddit user thescrubscribe made a list of the leaks.
If you already interacted with the board it only kills one of the highest Units.
Is that correct?
As far as I understood it during the stream is that you can only kill multiple highest units if playing Scotch or Gigni is the first move during your turn so you can't line units up with boosts or damage in the same turn.
If you already interacted with the board it only kills one of the highest Units.
Is that correct?
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Leeks, not leaks. The latter would not be allowed, but vegetables are fine.
(Sorry, I had to.)
I understand Hidden Cache is debatable on how strong will be, since you need to play all 3 rounds to get most out of it. Still, -3 in the hoard condition is ridiculous, compared to -1 in tribute condition that Off the Books has. And you already mentioned a lot of great units with Hoard that will become even better.
However, with NG ability i completely disagree. The new ability will be totally dominant.
You are comparing it to Enslave, however how someone, "somewhere else" pointed out, it can be used as an even better Wild Card Bounty+Graden, and this is if you just use it with Vanhemar.
Enslave might be better for strong engines or order cards in the 4/5 pt range, but the new ability is deadly against tall units and defenders (since a locked defender still defends), and can lead to crazy uncounterable combos with Vattier and defender on the same turn, then you can seize the unit you used the leader ability, or any other with just a cheap lock, next turn.
Regarding the other leaders, im not very excited with SK and NR ones simply for the fact i already used decks that fit perfectly with those abilities, and i dont want to repeat strategies i already used extensively in the past (although my Meve scytheman decks were some of my favourites in HC... but that was when they were not expected)
Thing is that tribute actually pays coins though, so a discount is worth actual points, while a discount on hoard is flexibility (which is admittedly very valuable), so saying that that -3 is worth actual -3 coins spend is just wrong.
Of course Vanhemar is a good combo with it, however saying it is a better Wild Card + Graden is putting it a little too far.
Admittedly in case of targets like Pugo Boom Breaker both are worth 25 points, however against targets like Yghern the new leader ability is completely worthless.
(I will agree though that Vanhemar needs a provision increase)
From my observations the only defenders that are good are Azar Javed (against which Imposter is awful) and the Nilfgaard defender (which is 1 matchup and Vincent is amazing against them already anyways if you want to tech that much).
Outside of the niche scenario that you are up against defenders you want to target (which is only really nilfgaard) Vattier is dead weight and effectively a 3 for 11.
Vattier won't be an issue, he is row locked, your opponent can just play his defender in ranged row. Only defenders you would like to have are SK MO NR and a little bit less ST (7points) ones, NG is only 4 points.
We agree that it will be good against tall units (14 points at best).
But it will be bad in many matchups, against SY you will almost never get more than 8 points (opponent will play around it with frightener). Same thing against a lot of ST decks, and some SK decks.
We agree that it will be good against tall units (14 points at best).
But it will be bad in many matchups, against SY you will almost never get more than 8 points (opponent will play around it with frightener). Same thing against a lot of ST decks, and some SK decks.
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Wild Card + Graden vs Pugo is 23 points plus 9 coins
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Edit: I forgot the 5 coins from Wild Card.
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OK, so i never really used Wild Card Graden as i find that combo disgusting, and i was not even considering the coins you get, so maybe this NG ability+ Vanhemar wouldnt be better, but slightly worse.
And i did fail to consider two particular cases where i thought it would be good against, but it isnt:
-Yghern, i thought it would be an easy +30pt swing, but im guessing since he isnt played and its a base copy, it will have no armor and immediately destroy itself. Still good vs other tall units though.
-the NG defender, its 7pt+4armor ONLY because of that bronze tactic it spawns, but if you use it on an enemy NG defender it wont spawn that tactic, being just 2pt+2armor+2 leader ability boost, so not worth it
Overall, i still think it will be superpopular and generate tons of hate for NG, as usual.
P.S. - i've tried Vattier decks many times, with that zeal potion most of the times. The problem of that combo is usually you need 3 turns to set it up:
one for the potion, one to lock the enemy unit you want, and another for Vattier. And if the enemy you want to lock comes last turn, you cant do it unless you already played Vattier before, making the zeal potion just a +3pt to get it out of removal range OR you have a NG stratagem with Radeyah, but that comes with a 3 dmg, not good if you want to seize the locked target.
But now? Its just a 2 turn combo: zeal potion, then on last turn you play Vattier, give zeal, use leader ability on last turn enemy unit and seize him (and also have another copy of it +2). It will probably be a popular strategy, specially because NG has other amazing order units that could use zeal like Damien and Skellen and Maraal (neutral but most used in NG).
And i did fail to consider two particular cases where i thought it would be good against, but it isnt:
-Yghern, i thought it would be an easy +30pt swing, but im guessing since he isnt played and its a base copy, it will have no armor and immediately destroy itself. Still good vs other tall units though.
-the NG defender, its 7pt+4armor ONLY because of that bronze tactic it spawns, but if you use it on an enemy NG defender it wont spawn that tactic, being just 2pt+2armor+2 leader ability boost, so not worth it
Overall, i still think it will be superpopular and generate tons of hate for NG, as usual.
P.S. - i've tried Vattier decks many times, with that zeal potion most of the times. The problem of that combo is usually you need 3 turns to set it up:
one for the potion, one to lock the enemy unit you want, and another for Vattier. And if the enemy you want to lock comes last turn, you cant do it unless you already played Vattier before, making the zeal potion just a +3pt to get it out of removal range OR you have a NG stratagem with Radeyah, but that comes with a 3 dmg, not good if you want to seize the locked target.
But now? Its just a 2 turn combo: zeal potion, then on last turn you play Vattier, give zeal, use leader ability on last turn enemy unit and seize him (and also have another copy of it +2). It will probably be a popular strategy, specially because NG has other amazing order units that could use zeal like Damien and Skellen and Maraal (neutral but most used in NG).
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No you don't, you get coins for tribute from wild card (slander), you spend them, then you get 9, and nothing is overcapping.
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I am not attracted to the new habilities, some seem recilated.
They also create new ones as if the current ones were well balanced among them, there are some that are almost never used.
The dwarf that deals damage by breaking artifacts, they will change it so that the target is RNG ..................
And that unnecessary drama with the parthners about the "leaks", as if there had ever been big problems with leaked content, another unnecessary thing.
Someone should give them a compass to focus on where to pay attention, noone of these "news" improves the game.
It continues along the same lines, changing a few skills, throwing away a lot of new content to sell, ignoring the one that needs to be updated.
I did not expect much, but also not something so basic.
They also create new ones as if the current ones were well balanced among them, there are some that are almost never used.
The dwarf that deals damage by breaking artifacts, they will change it so that the target is RNG ..................
And that unnecessary drama with the parthners about the "leaks", as if there had ever been big problems with leaked content, another unnecessary thing.
Someone should give them a compass to focus on where to pay attention, noone of these "news" improves the game.
It continues along the same lines, changing a few skills, throwing away a lot of new content to sell, ignoring the one that needs to be updated.
I did not expect much, but also not something so basic.
Mahakam forge looks weak. Also dont like the idea of a nerf to igni or scorch.
My thoughts about the new leader abilities:
Blaze Of Glory: At first I thought this is ridiculously OP, but now I think this is good ability, but not broken or OP. I don't think this will be used with Crow Mother or Morgvarg, but rather with Jutta. For full benefit, the enemy should have such a tall unit. Unlike Wholeson Junior or Adda, extra damage dealt doesn't come back, so, if there is no valid target for 12 strength, this is just a weaker version of WJ and Adda. But against Monsters this will be super powerful, as, in the last turn, you can get 24 points from this leader (but Second Wind can get 35+ points in one turn.. so.. not so OP or going to a staple SK leader)
Hidden Cache: Hoard needing -3 is bonkers. This passive ability alone makes this leader much more versatile and useful than King of Beggers or Sigi. But I had always found Hoard as a bad mechanics. You need to keep your coins in your purse and not use it even if you have to for those cards to work. Now, most of the hoard can be triggered without losing significant value by using this. I think this will replace (replace is such a big term. No one is using King of Beggars or Sigi already. So, it is safe to say it wont replace them) King of Beggars and Sigi. So, in addition to Wild Card and Blood Money, this will be the third option for the players.
Imposter: This is actually bonkers. But apparently most of the design team is a fan of NG so, what else to expect? The whole RNG fiesta of NG along with the disgusting Bribery, Damien, Skellan non sense, this will just get added to "10 reasons to hate and loathe NG". If defenders and Damien is not in the game, this ability is a good interesting one. But defenders (Vattier and Damien) are just going to make this a flustercuck.
Overwhelming Hunger: (Amazing name by the way. My most favorite name of the leader ability in the game). Three charges for DW units is actually very strong. For DW archetype, usually the strategy is to push R2 so that all the consume units are used and make the DW units kind of toothless in R3 (without anyone to consume them). This leader ability just takes that counter away making DW archetype formidable.
Uprising: I am not so sure. NR already gets bled. For maximum potential, you need 4 units on board in R3. Using a single charge in R1 or R2 makes this even weaker and everyone knows this. I think this is a weak ability.
Mahakam Forge: My thought? And prayers for this ability. The weakest and junkest ability. A leader who plays a 4P card and it is a one time ability and he has 15 provisions? All dwarfs have +1 armor. I believe two or three cards will benefit from having armor. Against control decks this may bring more value. Only time can tell. But I am just terribly disappointed with this ability, but of course, the first ability I will try on April 2nd.
Blaze Of Glory: At first I thought this is ridiculously OP, but now I think this is good ability, but not broken or OP. I don't think this will be used with Crow Mother or Morgvarg, but rather with Jutta. For full benefit, the enemy should have such a tall unit. Unlike Wholeson Junior or Adda, extra damage dealt doesn't come back, so, if there is no valid target for 12 strength, this is just a weaker version of WJ and Adda. But against Monsters this will be super powerful, as, in the last turn, you can get 24 points from this leader (but Second Wind can get 35+ points in one turn.. so.. not so OP or going to a staple SK leader)
Hidden Cache: Hoard needing -3 is bonkers. This passive ability alone makes this leader much more versatile and useful than King of Beggers or Sigi. But I had always found Hoard as a bad mechanics. You need to keep your coins in your purse and not use it even if you have to for those cards to work. Now, most of the hoard can be triggered without losing significant value by using this. I think this will replace (replace is such a big term. No one is using King of Beggars or Sigi already. So, it is safe to say it wont replace them) King of Beggars and Sigi. So, in addition to Wild Card and Blood Money, this will be the third option for the players.
Imposter: This is actually bonkers. But apparently most of the design team is a fan of NG so, what else to expect? The whole RNG fiesta of NG along with the disgusting Bribery, Damien, Skellan non sense, this will just get added to "10 reasons to hate and loathe NG". If defenders and Damien is not in the game, this ability is a good interesting one. But defenders (Vattier and Damien) are just going to make this a flustercuck.
Overwhelming Hunger: (Amazing name by the way. My most favorite name of the leader ability in the game). Three charges for DW units is actually very strong. For DW archetype, usually the strategy is to push R2 so that all the consume units are used and make the DW units kind of toothless in R3 (without anyone to consume them). This leader ability just takes that counter away making DW archetype formidable.
Uprising: I am not so sure. NR already gets bled. For maximum potential, you need 4 units on board in R3. Using a single charge in R1 or R2 makes this even weaker and everyone knows this. I think this is a weak ability.
Mahakam Forge: My thought? And prayers for this ability. The weakest and junkest ability. A leader who plays a 4P card and it is a one time ability and he has 15 provisions? All dwarfs have +1 armor. I believe two or three cards will benefit from having armor. Against control decks this may bring more value. Only time can tell. But I am just terribly disappointed with this ability, but of course, the first ability I will try on April 2nd.
Now it is a combo that scales with 3 times the strenght of the target, just as Graden, only that Graden+Wild Card does not rely on an additional Artifact you have to play (which adds up to another card with only 3 more points) and hope that it will not get hit by a stray Bomb Heaver.
The combo against Pugo Boom Breaker will give you a 6 power Vattier, 10 power Pugo and 12 power Pugo, so you get 28 points in total, which is already one of the best targets you can get, Graden Wild Card (as corrected above) against that would be 23 + 9 coins, so 32 if you have a (common) spender and that one is less fragile and only uses 1 card from hand, rather than 2.
I am going as far as to say this will be the strongest SY leader ability, but also for the fact that the leader abilities SY currently have are among the weakest in the game.
I sincerely doubt that, the only 2 defenders that see common play are Azar and Ffion and those are horrible targets for Imposter to copy, not to mention that one can always see the leader ability and could thus just play in the row that Vattier is not locked into (so in the Ranged Row) and even then any leader that has removal or can play an additional card can break through both defender and Vattier immediately.
At best a game takes 16-18 turns, which means that Meve gets 9 boosts.
This leader has 4 boosts and spawns a card that is guaranteed to be at at the very least 4 points, making this have a floor of 8.
Beyond that this leader has actual flexibility in that one can just save all charges or use 1 earlier if it can secure a round (what 1 shot leaders cannot do).
For maximum potential you could also just use it on a tridam infantry to make this a 12 point leader and that should even get the full value in a 3 card round 3 (which is the lowest it can get [outside of mill]).
If you get 4 targets to get into green strenght (boost neutral power units) you get 4 points (boosts) + a 7 point Scytheman, while also setting up a potential Vissegerd to get 6+ charges.
Beyond that one naturally amasses a few additional boosted unit.
I am quite sure that Uprising is a lot less fragile than people expect.
Protection on Resilience Gabor, 1 additional point on the new Yarpen Zigrin (while the charge ability is worth 7 points on Yarpen), protection on dwarves against anti-swarm and row punish (lacerate, Wild Boar) (having the opponent pick to either give the armor on multiple dwarfs value or allowing them to get the scaling ones like Barclay Els, Zoltan Chivay etc), Dwarves Berserkers are back to 5 armor, Mahakam Marauder moves out of the initial 5 damage range, Dwarven Mercenaries now take 4 damage to take down (unboosted, which the leader ability can also change), Figgis Merluzo (defender) moves out of 7 damage range (Stunning Blow no longer kills it) and the anti-row punish aspect buffs Zoltan: Scoundrel and Dennis Cranmer.
If Dwarves really get support in the next expansion and a few reworks (Barclay was already announced [and I doubt they are going to nerf him again (after nerfing dwarves after noone played them anymore)]) I can see this ability being quite decent.
The instant speed on the leader ability also helps keeping a defender or mercenary alive and the fact that one can play this immediately after playing mercenary (potentially through Novigradian Justice) is a huge deal compared to the vanilla Tempering.