New Scoia'tael cards

[Barracuda88]

Justice plays for 13 for 12 with 2 4p thinning and requires a condition to be met on the board (unlike Simlas).

Yeah, I'm not gonna get into another weird math argument here. It's a 10p card that thins 2 5p cards, but it's still a 13 for 10 to me.

Post automatically merged: Jul 29, 2021

sorry but you got it wrong. justice thins 5 provision cards and simlas can thin 4p cards for the same value, the provision cost is exactly the same. and to act like justice has been played 2 years ago is super disingenuous, the card was in every competetive ST list, be it madoc, schirru, natures gift, even elves up until the day it got changed. it was so good in ST that it became auto include (for the reasons I already mentioned, it gave ST a big pointslam and helped its bad consistency).

It became autoinclude because we consider 13 point slam OH SO GOOD, and because ST has literally no other thinning options aside from brokilon sentinels. If you give the faction nothing but garbage cards, something has to be played.

 

[InkognitoXI]

Yeah, I'm not gonna get into another weird math argument here. It's a 10p card that thins 2 5p cards, but it's still a 13 for 10 to me.

Post automatically merged: Jul 29, 2021

It became autoinclude because we consider 13 point slam OH SO GOOD, and because ST has literally no other thinning options aside from brokilon sentinels. If you give the faction nothing but garbage cards, something has to be played.

No matter how you want to look at, those Volunteers would not be played outside of the package and thus were bricks, so the package costs you 20 provisions in 3 cards (of which you only want to play 1), the values are exactly the same on Simlas (20p in 3 cards), only that he is giving you more points if you use Pact/Swallow Potion or Tempering with Nature's Gift (or one of the other options) and the package bricking is also less likely, given that if you run 2x Tempering you would also run 2x Rebuke and possibly 2x Caress.
At the very least with Nature's Gift Simlas is objectively superior (and the targets he demands are less horrible bricks and you get 1 more carryover on Gord).

 

[Celadyl]

Yeah, I'm not gonna get into another weird math argument here. It's a 10p card that thins 2 5p cards, but it's still a 13 for 10 to me.

Post automatically merged: Jul 29, 2021

It became autoinclude because we consider 13 point slam OH SO GOOD, and because ST has literally no other thinning options aside from brokilon sentinels. If you give the faction nothing but garbage cards, something has to be played.

you cant bring up wrong numbers and when you are corrected say you dont want to be bothered with "weird math arguments" lol.

I mean I generally agree ST got the short stick lately (or longer) but can we not pretend every ST is trash? justice was never trash, it was even played for less points in SY and I dont think you'd argue SY is lacking good cards. simlas is not the messiah of ST but it's a solid card.

btw artorious has much more restricted deck building costs in not having more than 3 different bronze units. its not played in anything but hyperthin for that reason.

 

[Barracuda88]

you cant bring up wrong numbers and when you are corrected say you dont want to be bothered with "weird math arguments" lol.

I mean I generally agree ST got the short stick lately (or longer) but can we not pretend every ST is trash? justice was never trash, it was even played for less points in SY and I dont think you'd argue SY is lacking good cards. simlas is not the messiah of ST but it's a solid card.

btw artorious has much more restricted deck building costs in not having more than 3 different bronze units. its not played in anything but hyperthin for that reason.

They weren't "wrong numbers," no matter how much you "lol" at them. You play one 10p card, you thin 2 cards and you get 13 points on the board. With Simlas, you play 1 12p card, you thin 2 cards and put 14 points on the board. And even if you DO count whatever provision and call both cases "the same" value that only PROVES the point that Simlas is a bad card, because everything else in Gwent has been powercrept and here's Simlas, our shiny new card getting the "same value" as Justice. Yay.

Oh, and poor Artirius can only be played in hyperthin or otherwise he won't be 100% consistent? "Lol"

Post automatically merged: Jul 29, 2021

No matter how you want to look at, those Volunteers would not be played outside of the package and thus were bricks, so the package costs you 20 provisions in 3 cards (of which you only want to play 1), the values are exactly the same on Simlas (20p in 3 cards), only that he is giving you more points if you use Pact/Swallow Potion or Tempering with Nature's Gift (or one of the other options) and the package bricking is also less likely, given that if you run 2x Tempering you would also run 2x Rebuke and possibly 2x Caress.
At the very least with Nature's Gift Simlas is objectively superior (and the targets he demands are less horrible bricks and you get 1 more carryover on Gord).

Um, yes you can play the volunteers "outside of the package," just like you can play the brigade or dogs or whatever other thinning cards other factions play without Justice...

 

[Draconifors]

Please remember to be respectful towards others even when you disagree with them. The direction here seems to be downhill at the moment.

 

[Celadyl]

They weren't "wrong numbers," no matter how much you "lol" at them. You play one 10p card, you thin 2 cards and you get 13 points on the board. With Simlas, you play 1 12p card, you thin 2 cards and put 14 points on the board. And even if you DO count whatever provision and call both cases "the same" value that only PROVES the point that Simlas is a bad card, because everything else in Gwent has been powercrept and here's Simlas, our shiny new card getting the "same value" as Justice. Yay.
Oh, and poor Artirius can only be played in hyperthin or otherwise he won't be 100% consistent? "Lol"

mate calm down it literally makes no sense to play 3 cards but only compare provisions of one of thise cards.
it's fine if you're disappointed with the ST cards, I feel you.

edit: I also didnt "lol" at your numbers but the switch of criticizing the numbers but then not wanting to talk about numbers.

 

[Barracuda88]

mate calm down it literally makes no sense to play 3 cards but only compare provisions of one of thise cards.
it's fine if you're disappointed with the ST cards, I feel you.

edit: I also didnt "lol" at your numbers but the switch of criticizing the numbers but then not wanting to talk about numbers.

Telling someone to calm down is about the worst thing you can do if you actually want somebody to calm down. It's fine, though. I don't really care for attempts to patronize. It's also fine to say that Justice is 13 for 10, not 13 for 20 - in my opinion - because you don't "play" 3 cards. You "play" 1 card. For example, if Justice pulled 5 6p dwarves out of the deck at once, for a total of 30 points instead of 13, would you be like, "Hey, it's fine. It cost 40 provisions to play that!" Or would it matter that 1 10p card just put 30 points on the board? That's what I meant about "weird math" and not wanting to talk about the numbers. I've had lengthy discussions on this very subject before, with both sides walking away without convincing the other, so I did not want to get into all that again.

 

[InkognitoXI]

Telling someone to calm down is about the worst thing you can do if you actually want somebody to calm down. It's fine, though. I don't really care for attempts to patronize. It's also fine to say that Justice is 13 for 10, not 13 for 20 - in my opinion - because you don't "play" 3 cards. You "play" 1 card. For example, if Justice pulled 5 6p dwarves out of the deck at once, for a total of 30 points instead of 13, would you be like, "Hey, it's fine. It cost 40 provisions to play that!" Or would it matter that 1 10p card just put 30 points on the board? That's what I meant about "weird math" and not wanting to talk about the numbers. I've had lengthy discussions on this very subject before, with both sides walking away without convincing the other, so I did not want to get into all that again.

No, in that case you should count the upgrade provisions (i.e. the provisions above 4p those cards need to have).
It is fine if you do not want to talk about the mathematical details, however saying "I do not want to talk about the details" and "Justice is a 13 for 10, while Simlas is a 13 for 12" cannot be true at the same time, given that the last statement is an evaluation you refuse to discuss accurately.

What you have to consider is that the total provisions of all involved cards together is the same in both cases, while you do not account any cost to milling 5p cards, rather than 4p cards.

 

[Celadyl]

Telling someone to calm down is about the worst thing you can do if you actually want somebody to calm down. It's fine, though. I don't really care for attempts to patronize. It's also fine to say that Justice is 13 for 10, not 13 for 20 - in my opinion - because you don't "play" 3 cards. You "play" 1 card. For example, if Justice pulled 5 6p dwarves out of the deck at once, for a total of 30 points instead of 13, would you be like, "Hey, it's fine. It cost 40 provisions to play that!" Or would it matter that 1 10p card just put 30 points on the board? That's what I meant about "weird math" and not wanting to talk about the numbers. I've had lengthy discussions on this very subject before, with both sides walking away without convincing the other, so I did not want to get into all that again.

well you're correct in your theoretical example but this is a case of comparison and the number of played/summoned cards is the same. it doesnt matter if the card you are actually playing is 10 or 12 when the cost balances out in the deck builder. both sets takes the same amount of provision and play about the same value and thinning.
I didnt mean to patronize you but it seemed you were going off on me a bit. my sincerest apologies then.
edit: I also know discussing with multiple people at the same time is tilting so I'll leave it at that

 

[Barracuda88]

No, in that case you should count the upgrade provisions (i.e. the provisions above 4p those cards need to have).
It is fine if you do not want to talk about the mathematical details, however saying "I do not want to talk about the details" and "Justice is a 13 for 10, while Simlas is a 13 for 12" cannot be true at the same time, given that the last statement is an evaluation you refuse to discuss accurately.

What you have to consider is that the total provisions of all involved cards together is the same in both cases, while you do not account any cost to milling 5p cards, rather than 4p cards.

I think it's been established that the fact that total provision cost is the same and value output is the same between the two packages in question does not actually speak to prove that Simlas is a "good" or "underestimated" card. Once again, what we see is the new "legendary" Simlas achieves pretty much the same value and effect as old Novigradian Justice. Meanwhile, a general powercreep - more specifically general NEW CARD powercreep over old cards - is a thing and cannot be denied. So where does that leave ST? With a thinning card that's exactly the same as 2 year old Justice, except it fits a little better with the spell archetypes. Yes, we'll play it. It's a new card. But is it a good card at this point in Gwent? Personally, I don't think so. To me, it's playable, but uninspired, unexciting, and it's freaking 12p, so I'll have to take out the Protector, Eithne, Verno, or Wanderers to jam into a deck. In other words, "meh."

 

[InkognitoXI]

I think it's been established that the fact that total provision cost is the same and value output is the same between the two packages in question does not actually speak to prove that Simlas is a "good" or "underestimated" card. Once again, what we see is the new "legendary" Simlas achieves pretty much the same value and effect as old Novigradian Justice. Meanwhile, a general powercreep - more specifically general NEW CARD powercreep over old cards - is a thing and cannot be denied. So where does that leave ST? With a thinning card that's exactly the same as 2 year old Justice, except it fits a little better with the spell archetypes. Yes, we'll play it. It's a new card. But is it a good card at this point in Gwent? Personally, I don't think so. To me, it's playable, but uninspired, unexciting, and it's freaking 12p, so I'll have to take out the Protector, Eithne, Verno, or Wanderers to jam into a deck. In other words, "meh."

It is everything but meh, even with powercreep taken into consideration Simlas is good.
What you are probably refering to is the fact that Simlas does not fix the issue with ST and is "another good card" for its archetype, while not being the lynchpin they desperately need, which however still does not mean that Simlas is the issue.
If Francesca would have been fine, rather than boring garbage (and probably even worse than Rience) and would be the lynchpin for this archetype I am fairly certain we would not have this discussion.
Furthermore with Blue Stripes etc it would also not be out of the question to give ST a Pavetta for bronze Specials, which they also failed to supply (yet).

 

[Barracuda88]

It is everything but meh, even with powercreep taken into consideration Simlas is good.
What you are probably refering to is the fact that Simlas does not fix the issue with ST and is "another good card" for its archetype, while not being the lynchpin they desperately need, which however still does not mean that Simlas is the issue.
If Francesca would have been fine, rather than boring garbage (and probably even worse than Rience) and would be the lynchpin for this archetype I am fairly certain we would not have this discussion.
Furthermore with Blue Stripes etc it would also not be out of the question to give ST a Pavetta for bronze Specials, which they also failed to supply (yet).

Well, that'll be your opinion and this will be mine.

Of course, I say that, but come that new season I'll be the one playing 8 orbs in one turn, I'm sure. Which will still only play for about 24 lmao.

Post automatically merged: Jul 29, 2021

Funny stuff. Looking at the Revealed cards provisions:
NR: 4, 4, 7, 12
NG: 4, 5, 7, 12
SK: 4, 5, 7, 10
MO 4, ..., ...., 10
and then comes ST: 5,6,9,12 BAM. You would think, "Damn, ST cards must be so much better than all the rest!"

 

[Guest 4416545]

Mmmmmmmmmm, ok guys, maybe i am missing something but: simlas can potentially pull 4 waylays at the same time, right?

All copies means all copies and if you got 2 waylay in your deck + the 2 that vanadain generates on deploy... As long as you put them back to your deck simlas can be an atómic bomb, more if then you combine him with elf scenario.

Damm dont know, unless i am missing something i reallly want to try elfs again when the expansión is released.

 

[Unkn0wn0ne]

Mmmmmmmmmm, ok guys, maybe i am missing something but: simlas can potentially pull 4 waylays at the same time, right?

All copies means all copies and if you got 2 waylay in your deck + the 2 that vanadain generates on deploy... As long as you put them back to your deck simlas can be an atómic bomb, more if then you combine him with elf scenario.

Damm dont know, unless i am missing something i reallly want to try elfs again when the expansión is released.

Yes, he can tutor four copies of Waylay. Other players have suggested using Vanadain + Snowdrop to put the Waylays back into deck.
But most people consider it jumping through too many hoops for not enough payout.


On the topic of the provisions maths:
If cards are only included for thinning purposes (like the dwarves for Novigradian Justice), then my understanding is that any provisions over 4p should be added to the provision cost of the thinning card. Because otherwise you would just thin 4p filler cards, instead of cards which might prevent adding higher provision golds.
e.g. Justice to thin 2x 5p = 12p. Justice to thin 2x 4p = 10p. Simlas to thin 2x Tempering = 12p. Simlas to thin 2x Orb of Insight = 16p.

 

[Madlax1992]

My opinion on the new cards is that Simlas is generally underestimated.
Simlas with Pact (or Tempering with Nature's Gift) is a good mixture between Portal and Novigradian Justice (especially with Tempering splitting the points on 3 different bodies), playing for 14+ for 12 (while thinning 2 4p cards and triggering Special synergies twice).
However Simlas is a generally good card, which becomes better in a sensible archetype.
The issue is that Simlas is not (without a Pavetta for Specials) the card that turns the archetype great, but a card that makes a good archetype better.

Elven Seer is also decent, being able to use Tempering on it to play for 9 for 5, while triggering Special synergies and Symbiosis (say from Nature's Gift).


The other 2 cards on the other hand make no sense, the Spell tag is completely worthless to ST (and outside of Gerhard nothing would change if they were blank in terms of tags, which is already a very bad sign) and the triggering number of 3 Specials is extremely high for average payoff.
I get why they assumed the number should be high, given that Specials is a very broad description, nevertheless 3 is far too high.

Beyond that to make matters worse those 2 new Specials do not even fit in the archetype they are intended to be a part of, they do not synergize with Nature cards and are not good enough to be an alternative (and to be honest Orb of Insight and Saov Ainmhi'dh being Nature cards would not be any less realistic than Tempering being a Nature card).
As if that were not bad enough those cards are also overcosted, Saov Ainmhi'dh is basically a Pact/Swallow Potion (without usable tag) for 5 more provision, with an ability that is hardly worth 5 additional provisions, while desiring to be played early, while requiring a unit for targeting and delaying to put out engines/answer engines, which is crucial during the early turns (for all intends and purposes it is a far, far worse version of Crow Mother).
Orb of Insight is also too expensive at being a conditional 8 for 6, which is not meeting any standards applied to 6p cards.

I would say that Saov Ainmhi'dh should either come out after 2 Specials and deal 6 damage, instead of boosting by 6 (which also solves the issue of find any opportunity of playing it early) or it should come out after 1-2 Specials and be priced at 7p, while Orb of Insight should either be a 5 card or a 7p Gold without doomed.

Simlas is a decent card, but too expensive at 12 provisions and too weak at 2 power. 2 power and 10 provisions, or 4 power and 12 provisions would've been more even. Elven Seer is ok I guess, in line with Sorceress and Whisperer, playable but not effective. The rest is badly designed overpriced garbage.

 

[rrc]

...
Funny stuff. Looking at the Revealed cards provisions:
NR: 4, 4, 7, 12
NG: 4, 5, 7, 12
SK: 4, 5, 7, 10
MO 4, ..., ...., 10
and then comes ST: 5,6,9,12 BAM. You would think, "Damn, ST cards must be so much better than all the rest!"

Yes. This. This is what is so hurtful to see. ST cards are over priced. They are by no means better than the other cards from other factions. If the ST cards were actually 4, 5, 7, 11 every ST player would have been happy and even other players won't feel like they are OP broken cards for the provisions. I don't know the reason behind why ST cards are this much over priced. But I know that I am not alone. Most people when they review the cards feel like they are over priced and would be good at lower provisions.

 

[Jollyrogerxberg]

but but all the synergy. At this point I would have Isengrim and yeaven just deleted from the game. Alongside Harmony. Just because (any other Idea?) these cards exist every elf is at (+1) potential power, every damn unit is weaker because of a potential harmony proc.
This is just bad.

I actually like the idea of a unit heavy mix in a spellatel instead of unitless removal. Actual powerfull elven mages casting the same spells as the player(beeing of supreme superpower). High risk high reward is okay. Anybody ever played a mage in a RPG? Mages are powerfull when and if they survive. I like that devs try to create a fluit archetype that plays these elvenmages/support and spells/specials in a healthy and interactable way.

I don't like the power. or the absence of power. So many cards with initial negative prov/points stats comboing up to a value that a good sk warri can get all alone. And again and again and again. We have a lot of these in scoia. Etriel/muirlega, Vri-Officer,....and now even the new set.

And I have another point. What is the strategy? these new card have a nice theme and the "count to three and go" is obviously the "playstyle" of elven mages. Start with the sage as bait then follow with flute-ladys or a sorcerer and the seer and then roll out the spellforce building a huge gord.

But how? This makes just half a deck. How to complete it? Heatwave, bekkers, rockslide, Triangle, more control? Try to work in some nature, rebuke is needed for sure but have not enough space to support nature because our elves want to cast spells.

And second who should lead these lads into battle. Since franny steped down and joined the army, PS? ping around and make waylay playable but have clunky sentinels and adding more bad dreams to what is supposed to bea mulligan nightmare allready?

Still it all is a bit hollow. Sure some tactics/archetypes needed multible expansions to be playable in a final state (Warris, Pirate/ships) but hey this in totally on you yes you! devs. (or marketing grrrr) You hipe us with an expansion but only give us 4 new card of our favorite faction. NATURALLY everybody wants good stuff. If you release 20 cards nobody cares if half is mehh, but with only 4 at a time it needs at least 3/4 good

 

[Markus_Wirth]

To be honest I am disappointed of SC POP Spellatel for various reasons.

1) I consider it too be kind of uncreative. NR got patience. MO got Sabbath. NG got the high-risk high-reward Rience and now some creative spy support including even double agents. SK got creative rain synergizing/creating cards. SY got also some unique bounty support cards like Witchfinder.
And what did SC get? Cards creating or tutoring specials (Francesca, Sorcerress, Simlas, Elven Seer). Cards benefitting from specials (Whisperer: To my mind uncreative but the most powerful addition of SC POP). The other cards do have from my perspective only Meme Potential.

2) SC got 3 cards which are not competitive at all:
- Vanadain: Yes, he can be powerful if not answered and you manage to make him word and benefit from these deadeye but this is so situational that you only consider him Meme
- Saov: At value-provision perspective so much worse that already existing counterparts (e.g. Crowmother)
- Orb of Insight: Biggest joke of the whole expansion. Can be a 4 for 6 if drawn in a late round 3. Yes it can have value, if it goes into two Seers in round 1 and helps Gord as a finisher. But why the hell do all the factions get cheap cards which can be great in specific situations (NR: Aretuza adept at 4 provision can be easily a +3 engine each turn; NG Blightmaker + Mage Assasin combo is still very cheap point slam + deck thinning, SK Havfrue Singer is a conditional 8 for 5 plus conditional +2 each turn engine; MO bleeding effigy can ba even a 13+ for 4 in specific situations + graveyard attack. Do not even talk about prenerfed witch apprentice. With the new cards also Gan Ceann can offer huge point slam for 5 provisions).
One has to notice that there is not a single 4 provision POP card.

3) Lacking synergies
For each and every other fractions I saw great synergies for existing archetypes/leader abilities.
What do I see for SC?
Cards like Sorceress and maybe even Elfen Seer can fit into Nature Gifts deck. Even Simlas might be an expensive risky point slam option for Nature´s Gift. But all the other cards are not fitting for various reasons (Francesca wants to have a strong special finisher which nature cards do not offer, Hamadryades want to be boosted by Dryad Caress, Whsieperer are clogging your board as it is already full of treants).
I somehow see a control heavy spellatel Precision Strike deck and built it for PoP I with all new cards except Vanadain but I have to admit that it was my worst performing POP focused deck.
My expectation after the patch is that there will nothing change significantly for SC. There will be the same elf decks with or without traps and the same strong Nature´s Gift. From time to time there will be a dwarf focused deck but I would expect to see PoP II cards only for expiremential reasons. Maybe some Simlas in Nature´s Gift or some Elven Seers hoping for a giant unanswered Gord. But nothing more.

 

[Lokiat0r]

And second who should lead these lads into battle. Since franny steped down and joined the army, PS? ping around and make waylay playable but have clunky sentinels and adding more bad dreams to what is supposed to bea mulligan nightmare allready?

PS without sentinels, perhaps? Not entirely efficient, but then neither is bricking your hand...

 

[EduFerraz]

lets be honest.

Vanadain will problably rework to "create 2 waylays and than put 2 cards back to your deck".

So you can create those waylay and put they back to your deck. Than simlas will play those 4 waylay and with vanadad on board that will play for 26 points + the potencial to create more 4 dead eye elves and put more 12 points on board..

And everyone who is blaming now will love that combo

(its that what i am thinking will happens, otherwiser, those SC cards ae the weakest from this expansion)