New version of the Cyberpunk RPG?

[Maelcom404]

HOLY SH*T! Okay the V3 art does look horrible! I'm happy about CP2020 art after all ^^
It's just that art, not only the style but also the tools to do it have evolved so much, that it does look a bit old, but I didn't mean it in a bad way. Some illustrations are actually very nice (like the first pic you posted for example).

But yes, the only way to have a new edition would be that the game sells well. But even so, of all the gamers who'll buy the game, how many would be interested in a new PnP book? 10-15%? I don't even know if that'd be enough to make them do a new edition...

Haha, no problem, I understand what you were sayin', but the art can go to "ok" to "terribly wrong" depending on who is in charge about it.
Well that's the question, a new Pnp could be awesome, but I don't see them reprint the whole thing if there is not a huge amount of player to pay for it, so the videogame will probably help draw attention to the pnp, it's already done in some way, since a lot of people expecting CP77 never hearded about the pnp and now it's done, they just need to be pushed to it like "you liked the video game? ok, now if you and your buds dig it, you can do the pnp with a total liberty, taking the game as a start point", which would totaly fix the canon, and the mess with rules and the global background behind Cyberpunk.

 

[Suhiira]

Don't we all wish to work for Mike Pondsmith?

I prefer working for myself

 

[Shock34]

Cyberpunk 2020, as fun as it is, is really showing it's age. Cellphone modems the size of bricks in the game when players to the table and turn off their smart phones? Showing off 80's glam models when I have to pause in the middle of the game beyond some guy is blasting electronically made dubstep down the street? etc...

As much as I hate to say it, Shadowrun has my players attention. It has wireless, it has social media, it has an easier transition between Meat world and the Net. It has elements that is directly relevant and thus can more easily Identify with vs keeping stuff in the 80 retro future and keeping it there. For a game that includes Dragons and Magic for god sakes, it handles technological issues that are much more relevant to my players that I can pull with 2020.

Cyberpunk is back in the mainstream. Smart-Targeting guns are mainstream news, drones waging warfare is a hot topic, and more but it needs to be updated with the technology and issues of today otherwise you risk missing the boat.

 

[Maelcom404]

Cyberpunk 2020, as fun as it is, is really showing it's age. Cellphone modems the size of bricks in the game when players to the table and turn off their smart phones? Showing off 80's glam models when I have to pause in the middle of the game beyond some guy is blasting electronically made dubstep down the street? etc...

As much as I hate to say it, Shadowrun has my players attention. It has wireless, it has social media, it has an easier transition between Meat world and the Net. It has elements that is directly relevant and thus can more easily Identify with vs keeping stuff in the 80 retro future and keeping it there. For a game that includes Dragons and Magic for god sakes, it handles technological issues that are much more relevant to my players that I can pull with 2020.

Cyberpunk is back in the mainstream. Smart-Targeting guns are mainstream news, drones waging warfare is a hot topic, and more but it needs to be updated with the technology and issues of today otherwise you risk missing the boat.

Well about technology, it's really easy to fix.
My Cyberpunk 2020's game take place in the "present" world (2040, but the setting is somewhat like now), just take the global background and fix the holes, just like electric car, cheap cellphones, hacking (i use a reworked version of the network in solo of fortune, it's way easier for you to run the game, as for the netrunner which just have to launch a few dice once it's his turns and that's all), as for the look, I'd say, replace your glam-rock boy by ravers, modern gangs, etc... like this:

They're already more hyped when it's about playing a dirty punk with a mohawk from the combat zone than a rockerboy with a mulet, don't be affraid to be drity.
You just need to find a close example from nowaday, people doesn't listen to New Wave, but to Dubstep, so just tell them "well, a Rockerboy, can be anything from a Bill Clinton to Skrillex" and that's it lol.


Sure a new edition with all of this as a "plug and play" would be cool, no need to waste time making your whole world based on Cyberpunk 2020 (and that's what CDPR is doing with CP77 it seems), but social media, internet, drones, smart targeting guns, wireless, etc is already in Cyberpunk 2020, sure not in the exact form we know now (like the screamsheet being received by fax, just replace fax by "newsletter" or "facebook page" and here you go.).

I don't really see what's so "retro" in Cyberpunk 2020, yes, if you just take the book as it is, you'll think "will i have to play a guy with a mullet?", but IMO It's to the GM to make some work of it's own to fix some technology stuff, and that's not so much of a stretch, since almost everything is already written in the rules, you just need to update what is there depending on what you need, for a drone I'd make it hella hard to shoot, having a few guns and a really light armor (since it would be made with a somewhat armored plastic of some sort), smart gun are already here, etc...

Forgot the cheesy side, and just take the rules and the overall background and use your imagination, it's really easy to make your updated version of it so your player'll have some connexion with it.

On the Shadowrun side, I think you can't really compare both, Cyberpunk has one edition with a handfull of side-books to create the universe (not directly related to RT, so the canon can go really wrong sometime) when Shadowrun had a lot of official books, etc...
If Cyberpunk 2020 had as much popularity than Shadowrun I think we'd had a lot of edition with updated content, but even if Cyberpunk is quite old now, the rules are "soft" enought to be stretched around to your needs.

 

[shadownetthomas]

You are very right, you can just tweak the existing rules, etc, yourself to make them playable and attractive to new and/or reluctant players, but to do that kind of abstraction and "rewriting" of the rules, equipement and setting, you need to be a good GM, which everyone isn't (sadly)

 

[blank_redge]

You are very right, you can just tweak the existing rules, etc, yourself to make them playable and attractive to new and/or reluctant players, but to do that kind of abstraction and "rewriting" of the rules, equipement and setting, you need to be a good GM, which everyone isn't (sadly)

Hm. I find this an odd contention.

Being a good Referee / Game Master / etc. requires more than just laying a pre-canned game out in front of the players.

I think that CP2020, on its own merits, is flexible enough to allow for a plausible re-write to hook in players (wireless clouds, smartphones, etc.) If you don't want to keep brick-like cellphones, green-screen monitors, and tractor-feed printouts to add a particular flavor, there's nothing really stopping you from selectively retconning the props and background characters for the scene, as it were.

 

[HeadClot]

I would pay for a 2077 version of CyberPunk PnP

 

[Sardukhar]

I would pay for a 2077 version of CyberPunk PnP

How much would you pay, though?

Because such an effort would be very, very expensive.

Chrome 5 will be an update, out before 2077 is the plan.

 

[HeadClot]

How much would you pay, though?

Because such an effort would be very, very expensive.

Chrome 5 will be an update, out before 2077 is the plan.

I would pay at least 50.00 to 70.00 USD for a non-Collectors edition hardback.

I would pay at least 20 USD for a PDF version of the game

 

[Sardukhar]

So, regular prices then?


Developing CP2077 would take awhile and require writers, editors, artists, so forth. You'd have to do that pretty steadily to do it well and even then, you'd get guff if you went the wrong way from 2020, like V3 did.

You could reduce costs by offering PDF and order-to-print versions, sure, but you'd still have to pay that staff during development, which would take months. Let's ballpark it at, off the top of my head, out of my ass inaccurate, at $100,000. Assume you pay $20/hr for an 8 hour day, for four people. $640 a day. For at least four months of 5 day weeks. $51,200 just for payroll, never mind where to house them, power for said housing, advertising, bandwidth, so forth.

So try a budget of $100,000, to be on the safe side.

At $20 a copy, that's 5,000 copies. At $40 a copy, 2500 copies sold to break even...before DrivethruRPG, shipping print or bandwidth costs for getting copies to people.

Probably why it's smarter to release Chrome 5 and see how that goes.

 

[kabukiman1973]

I can be wrong, but usually new editions sell better than suplements: There is a lot of people who buy new rpg's just to take a look (I know people like that). A suplement means you are very interested in the game. And usually only GM buy them.

 

[Suhiira]

So, regular prices then?

So try a budget of $100,000, to be on the safe side.

At $20 a copy, that's 5,000 copies. At $40 a copy, 2500 copies sold to break even...before DrivethruRPG, shipping print or bandwidth costs for getting copies to people.

It's a LOT more expensive then that to print material, while I'm not a game publisher myself I know some folks that do and printing costs are almost unbelievable, and of course the more copies you print at once the cheaper, but then you have to warehouse the extra copies till they sell.
Then you need to add dealer mark-up cause they have to make a living too.
So triple (at least) the number of copies that have to be sold to break even.

 

[Sardukhar]

It's a LOT more expensive then that to print material, while I'm not a game publisher myself I know some folks that do and printing costs are almost unbelievable, and of course the more copies you print at once the cheaper, but then you have to warehouse the extra copies till they sell.
Then you need to add dealer mark-up cause they have to make a living too.
So triple (at least) the number of copies that have to be sold to break even.

Oh, those costs aren't a standard print run. There's a new thing called print-on-demand, very in-vogue, for people that prefer print copy to PDF. Apparently it drastically reduces print costs.

Still, you re-emphasize the main point - OMGITSEXPENSIVE. And it is.

 

[Maelcom404]

We should make a Cyberpunk2077-Forum Pnp.

"I roll a 6 with my Troll skill, and I make a topic about how I'd like to see a purple-explosive-penis in the game"

 

[blank_redge]

We should make a Cyberpunk2077-Forum Pnp.

"I roll a 6 with my Troll skill, and I make a topic about how I'd like to see a purple-explosive-penis in the game"

You're looking at a DIFF 20 to ensure that the thread doesn't get locked or merged. DIFF 25 if Dragonbird is on.

 

[Maelcom404]

You're looking at a DIFF 20 to ensure that the thread doesn't get locked or merged. DIFF 25 if Dragonbird is on.

Do I have some bonuses if I pay a Netrunner to make a fake website telling that someone at CDPR said they would be interested in explosive purples things?

 

[jacqsynn]

Oh, those costs aren't a standard print run. There's a new thing called print-on-demand, very in-vogue, for people that prefer print copy to PDF. Apparently it drastically reduces print costs.

Still, you re-emphasize the main point - OMGITSEXPENSIVE. And it is.

Yes I get my PDF's printed into books at lulu.com and it is very reasonably priced. I had the Swords and Wizardry complete rulebook printed out for me at just a hair over $10.00 US a copy for black and white softcover, 8.5 x 11 inches good ole full size game book. With print on demand you can put money into production quality you know that nice art and pretty colors if you choose. Then sell it through your electronic storefront in softcover, hardcover, color, or black and white at different prices depending on what options the end purchaser wants to pay for. With no need of having a warehouse full of books, just hope folks purchase your books to cover your earlier costs in creating the base book.

 

[wisdom000]

Very very few RPG companies make a grand profti. R.Tal, at the height of it's popularity, saw decent profit, no one got rich, but Mike at least was able to make a living at it, for a brief while...

What CDPR is doing here is pretty revolutionary... not sure it's ever really been done before. Sure, lots of video games have been based off RPG's, but we are talking a game based on a RPG that hasn't seen an official product from the company released in almost 2 decades....

Even at Cyberpunk's (without a doubt there most succesful line) most popular state, it was at best evenly tied with Shadowrun... and Fasa at the time had a much much larger budget, since they also owned Battletech. Shadowrun books were gloody full color affairs, the core rules were hardcover. They could afford artists like Tim Bradstreet....

But R.tal was able to keep up with them, because it was a much more pure cyberpunk game, the art wasn't by big names, but it was, for the most part, consistant and excellently done (as long as you ignore books like Protect and Serve.... christ that art was bad...). They also had support from second party publishers, Atlas, who produced more or less official canon material, and Ianus, who produced alternate reality stuff riding the White Wolf vampire craze. Cybeprunk had it's fans, Shadowrun had it's fans, and rarely was there overlap, because while the games did similiar things, they went about them in vastly different and contradictory fashions... Shadowrun was DnD in a bladerunner setting. Cyberpunk... it was straight bladerunner, straight gibson, straight appleseed, or straight Robocop, depending on your taste. It's rules were hard core, revolutionary at the time, in that they did away with level based hit point progression, and there was no crutch of magic to fall back on... Combat was lethal, brutal, and there was no magic reset.

But for all that, as the 90's drew on, it became obvious that some things needed updating, the rules needed adjustment...

Unfortunately R.Tal was already starting fto falter behind at this point... the Anime Liscense for Bubblegum Crisis was a decent sellerand the books were beautiful. It also let them test their new rules set, Fuzion... which unfortunately for R.Tal never caught on with most of the CP 2020 fan base... Dragonball, R.Tal's second anime liscencse, though hugely popular at the time, didn't even score a blip on the radar really, and I don't think the proposed Gundam game ever even got published.

By the time V3 was released, it was already years late from the original anounced date, and what we got.... pleased no one, and looked to be the death knell for R.Tal.

That CDPR are reviving the property is cause for celebration among us, that they are trying to remain faithful even mroe so..

But a new edition, I don't know that even CDPR will want to try and bankroll that, at least not until they see how succesful this game is going to be.

And there is no guarantee that a new edition of the pnp game would even break even in today's climate... which you have no idea how sad that makes me to say.

I mean most people would believe that a new edition would be based on the video game, not the other way around. And while video games based on RPG's are generally succesful, I can think of very few instances where pnp games based on video games have been profitable.

 

[TheCybersmily]

Excellent commentary Wisdom.
The other thought for Max Mike is to get a Kickstart to see the interest from the community and have the fans help bankroll the initial start up. I for one wouldn't mind throwing some dough his way.

 

[Vincentdante]

Excellent commentary Wisdom.
The other thought for Max Mike is to get a Kickstart to see the interest from the community and have the fans help bankroll the initial start up. I for one wouldn't mind throwing some dough his way.

That is one option, but let's keep in mind he has his hands full still with the previous Mekton Kickstarter on top of Chrome 5.