New video – Swap Update overview

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Some things I wish for:
1. Nerf for Isengrim Outlaw - create pool is way too limited and it has weather clear, lock, row movement and resurrect (hatori) all in the pool.
2. All ST bronzes are still unconditional 12-14 (sometimes even more), new scout into WD is 13, half elf hunter is 12, etc. This isn't true with other faction bronzes, which need multiple turns or specific board states to get 12 value. Some point buff is needed for many other bronzes in other factions or 1-2 point nerf is needed for cards like HE hunter, which also provides 2 elf bodies, vrihedd officer / vanguard, etc.
3. Slave driver, doppler, runestone, black blood and possibly olgierd are absolutely trash now in both constructed and arena. They are basically deleted from the game.
 
I'm somewhat dissappointed, if it's only the changes they telling in the vid.
If there will not also come changes to other cards/ new cards it will just be alchemy and greatswords instead of alchemy and Henselt-machines.
 
AVK1995;n10952447 said:
2. All ST bronzes are still unconditional 12-14 (sometimes even more), new scout into WD is 13, half elf hunter is 12, etc.
Hm? All? There is only one I can think of, and that's half elf hunter at 12.

- Dwarven Skirmisher is pretty close, they it requires hitting an enemy of 4 points or more. It's pretty close to unconditional ... but there is a condition (though it may be easy to achieve).
- Wardancer/Scout is a combo that requires having both cards in hand, which means it's not unconditional.
- Neophytes require at least two units in hand to get to 12.
- Dragoons have to stay on the board 4+ turnes to get to 12+ points.
- V Officers are powerful, but have the issue of drawing a random card, which can end up giving you a card you don't want.
- Vanguards are terrible if you have a short round 3. In long rounds they're awesome. That's conditional.
- Pryo's require opponent to have units on every row worth 3 or more to get to 12-14 range.
- There are some cards that can get there, like swordmaster, but that's hardly unconditional. Even if you buff it to a 16 value (8 body with 8 removal) with a hawker support, that's still 23 between two cards which is 11.5 per card.

Those are probably all the most powerful ST bronzes. And then there are several the obviously don't get to 12 on their own under any circumstances. Only one is completely unconditional 12 points, and that's half elf hunter. If you wanted to give that a 1 point ding somehow, I'm fine with it. Just about all the others can only get you over 11 if a condition is met.
 
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So to recap
  • Mulligans don't trigger Swap any more (Wardancer, Vanguard)
  • Blackblood is only Bronze (probably useless)
  • Doppler spawns random (probably useless)
  • Olgierd is now a modified Morkvaarg (immortal for the round unless locked or removed)
  • Runestones are more random (Less useful)
  • Dun Banner Nerfed by 5 points (probably useless)
  • Elven Scout is a more stable Vrihead Officer (actually a bonus for swap)
  • Brouver can't pull Spies (Yaevin combo is reduced)
  • Slave Driver is now a degenerate Cyclops (Might be even more annoying this way)


Damnit, there went my most fun deck to play..... Slave Robbers is completely done for

Expectation: Greatswords and Veterans to be topping the lists, along with Spell-a-tael, and new DD-Vipers
 
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Snake_Foxhounder;n10952372 said:
Slave drivers are just used as bodies for ale

Part of what made slave drivers so powerful was that you could use your opponents strategy against them while playing your own.

Playing against deathwish? Grab an archespore/dao and griffin.
Playing against SK GS? Grab a boat and a sword.
Playing against brouver? Cycle that create by getting a scout, then create all kinds of nonsense.

And on this goes. It was basically "my opponents best play plus one point".
 
We will see if this changes are good or a bad thing. I can't believe it that I don't need to wait another 5 months to see a patch. I took a pause after the homecoming announcement , and I was quite sad.
I still can't believe it what I see, a patch, changes! Thanks a bunch CD Projekt!

Long live the GWENT!!! Love you guys!!!

Regards
 
And play against weather and spawn a wild hunt hound, or play against ST and spawn a swordmaster. You're not guaranteed the "best play". Not to mention how that card destroys you in mirror.

You hope you get something good but a lot of the times you don't. Not something you can really use, just some points on the board to spread to 2 rows, then play novice with ale on the third row. They won't be used in alchemy anymore but they will find their uses, possibly in NG handbuff.
 
A lot of good changes, even if most of them are pretty boring. But as they will likely get some changes with homecoming again, I can live with the changed cards not being that interesting.
Wardancer seems pretty weak now. Compared to Daerlan footsoldiers, it is a lot harder to trigger and gives less points. So, 4 points would be better.
And I don't think Elven Scouts will see a lot of play. We had a unit, who could only swap(mulligan) cards in the past and that wasn't used. I doubt that any deck will include more than 1 from them.

I doubt that Whinch will see much play, but it can be usefull with Nathils nonetheless.

I don't know where slave drivers will be seen in the future, but I doubt it will be alchemy.

Olgierds change is curious but understandable and offers some new options. I could see him being used in deathwish (obviously), consume and self-wounding Skellige.

From the video I understood that there will be also some minor balance changes, which weren't mentioned here, so I'm looking forward to those, too.
 
Snake_Foxhounder;n10952594 said:
And play against weather and spawn a wild hunt hound, or play against ST and spawn a swordmaster. You're not guaranteed the "best play". Not to mention how that card destroys you in mirror.

You hope you get something good but a lot of the times you don't. Not something you can really use, just some points on the board to spread to 2 rows, then play novice with ale on the third row. They won't be used in alchemy anymore but they will find their uses, possibly in NG handbuff.

they allways got value cards like dragoons or neophytes, hell even swordmaster is 11points in 2 bodies. also elvenmerc into ointment vico ointment vico beer was obscene.
 
cloak111;n10952558 said:
And on this goes. It was basically "my opponents best play plus one point".

Except it wasn't, i already had this discussion with another guy who didn't understand what "average" means.
The whole fun of slave driver was to play with opponents cards and have different games every time, now it's just another cyclops.
 
Iuliandrei;n10952720 said:
Except it wasn't, i already had this discussion with another guy who didn't understand what "average" means.
The whole fun of slave driver was to play with opponents cards and have different games every time, now it's just another cyclops.

True. On "average" you're not pulling the best card you can pull. Sometimes you get bricked, other times you don't, but from my experience with it I'd say was making good and consistent plays with it.

I don't think playing with the opponent's cards is "fun" when those cards can create game winning synergies with your deck, (Elven mercs or sages for example). It makes no sense to play ST cards from an NG deck (and this just kills faction identity).
 

DRK3

Forum veteran
Pretty happy with much of these changes, particularly the BS that was Brouver + spy when you lose the coin flip + Wardancer on R2 that often would make me go down 2 cards on CA, unless i had a silver spy of my own.

Not happy about the Olgierd change, as it was one of my favourite cards, and now, it wont ressurect on other rounds correct?

At least i already have something interesting in mind for the new slave driver.
 
cloak111;n10952558 said:
Part of what made slave drivers so powerful was that you could use your opponents strategy against them while playing your own.

Playing against deathwish? Grab an archespore/dao and griffin.
Playing against SK GS? Grab a boat and a sword.
Playing against brouver? Cycle that create by getting a scout, then create all kinds of nonsense.

And on this goes. It was basically "my opponents best play plus one point".

Alchemy never had over 50% winrate on Gwent meta report. That means despite its popularity, it's never been tier 1. People just don't like slave drivers because of what they can potentially do which doesn't mean they consistently do what ppl assume they do. Thus, comes the nerf. It got nerfed cuz the community in general doesn't like it.

I am so disappointed GS will be the same. And I predict that GS + Vesmir + Mandrake will be the next big meta and most popular since Swim is working on a way to abuse Sabbath + Olgier. That's sadder than the meta we have right now.
 

rrc

Forum veteran
Dominika;n10952048 said:
Check out the overview of the upcoming update with Paweł Burza and Rysik!



Serioiusly CDPR? Absolutely NOTHING for Skellige? You think it is perfectly balanced? Greatswords and seemingly infinite resurrection and extreme deck thinking with the Pirate, Corsair, etc. are all fine? What can I say? The first time I am terribly disappointed with CDPR (unless there are some changes for SK which you guys haven't mentioned yet). Nothing about VWs too?

:wat::sad::scold::facepalm::fury:
 
GS is hard to change. It is the only engine deck left in T1. Of course it is strong, but it is hard to change without killing whole archetype. That is why I am ok with no Gs change. GS will be regulated partially with control meta (and grave hate which ids also big GS problem).

I guess brouver nerf will not change much in terms of using clever. Also changing scout can be neutral, as it will enable more boost to elves, but on other hand there will be less elves bodies. I guess only real nerf is a doppler which is useless now. I would prefer to rebuild this card then just change into useless.

Alchemy got another control option (which is insane and too much)), but they will have problem with nerf of create mechanism and problem with filling all rows. It means they will be rather nerfed, but control option is insane. GS (or any other engine) vs alchemy will be sure loss for GS. I think Nilfgaard has too much removal now.
 
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mli_dragon;n10952915 said:
Alchemy never had over 50% winrate on Gwent meta report. That means despite its popularity, it's never been tier 1. People just don't like slave drivers because of what they can potentially do which doesn't mean they consistently do what ppl assume they do. Thus, comes the nerf. It got nerfed cuz the community in general doesn't like it.

I am so disappointed GS will be the same. And I predict that GS + Vesmir + Mandrake will be the next big meta and most popular since Swim is working on a way to abuse Sabbath + Olgier. That's sadder than the meta we have right now.

Exactly the opposite my friend. It ALWAYS had an over 50% winrate in the Gwent meta report. See here: https://gwentup.com/report/18/18

That's the latest. Go to Calveit and the bronzes (like Ointments, Viper Witchers and Novices) and look at the deck's winrate in the highest tier. Older reports are also archived if you want to cross reference.

The funny thing is, I expect Spies to make a comeback, but this will depend on how prevalent greatswords will be. Their winrate has already gone up to 49. something % with Emhyr, and with Usurper, they even have a greater than 50% winrate in the highest tier, effectively making them Tier 1 again. Goes to show that this deck, when unexpected, can be VERY dominant. Similar to axemen :)

To talk about the changes themselves, I am glad you are taking care of the abusive mechanics of Brouver and ST but leave the overall power of Elven Swap mostly unchanged. Come to think of it, an Elven scout will add extra swaps to the swap/Nova deck, potentially searching for better cards and triggering the vanguards more, while the overall effect is not that different than the Vrihedd Officer (Officer into Vanguard is 11 + 1 for every other elf on the board, Scout is 10 + 1 for every other elf on the board). I think swapping dopplers for First Light cards in the Swap deck is can be a pretty effective change too or Dol Blathanna Archers or another high strength elf.All things considered, it might be worth to go for 28 cards and add extra elves AND first light cards, since now the deck will be thinning even more. You just have to watch out not to play Wardancers from the deck, which is not a bad thing to have to do some deck maneuvering, Alchemy has to watch out with novices in order to avoid seeing a double bricked ointment early on for example.

Alchemy I think also took a light hit. The potential workarounds I see are either using Slave infantry instead of drivers (Alchemy is already control heavy), OR, not using Ales, but instead Petri's Philter/ Swallow potions.

Henselt, I am glad of this change if I am honest. Even with 2 machines, Henselt is worth 13 + 11 + 3 = 27 points. Not shabby at all.

Greatswords fortunately have their counters. Aside from Nilfgaard and their Vicovaros/Assire, there's Also Monsters with Ozzrel and Caretaker. I do predict a surge of decks containing these.

Overall, I get a positive vibe from those changes. I never had much of a problem with greatswords aside from how effectively they destroy weather decks, which is something that eventually needs to be addressed. But in the current meta, in context, in this place and time, you are addressing certain things that were flawed, and that's good.

Quick question though, you did not mention Hym or Triss: Telekinesis, or Aguara: True form, or Kiyan. Are we to assume these will remain the same? you did say you are addressing the entirety of Create.
 
ser2440;n10952984 said:
Exactly the opposite my friend. It ALWAYS had an over 50% winrate in the Gwent meta report. See here: https://gwentup.com/report/18/18

That's the latest. Go to Calveit and the bronzes (like Ointments, Viper Witchers and Novices) and look at the deck's winrate in the highest tier. Older reports are also archived if you want to cross reference.

Yes, in the lastest, Alchemy barely made to 50%. (I am talking about winrates above rank 20. I rarely pay attention to lower ranks.) I check those reports frequently and rarely, very rarely, Alchemy makes above 50% unlike Henselt, Brouver, and GS. It is sad that sometimes ppl just pick a data that superficially fits their argument while ignoring the whole statistics. Nothing useful nor informative there that you add to my previous comment. And it's just annoying.
 
Snake_Foxhounder;n10952594 said:
And play against weather and spawn a wild hunt hound, or play against ST and spawn a swordmaster. You're not guaranteed the "best play". Not to mention how that card destroys you in mirror.

You hope you get something good but a lot of the times you don't. Not something you can really use, just some points on the board to spread to 2 rows, then play novice with ale on the third row. They won't be used in alchemy anymore but they will find their uses, possibly in NG handbuff.

Sometimes but when it does hit it is completely broken. Against deathwish it ends up playing more archespores than the opponent which is ridiculous. Against NR armor it pulls a ton of their best buffing bronze cards. It's absurd that the opponent gets to use your best cards even better than you can.
 
Evald;n10952975 said:
GS is hard to change. It is the only engine deck left in T1. Of course it is strong, but it is hard to change without killing whole archetype. That is why I am ok with no Gs change. GS will be regulated partially with control meta (and grave hate which ids also big GS problem).

It isn't hard to nerf GS ... and when we say "balance" we don't mean "change." The archetype itself is fine, but it isn't balanced while all others are being nerfed. 1 or 2 point deduction to GS will do it. And VW is fine as to what it does. I hope CDPR don't kill an archetype in the name of "balance."
 
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