Whose, for example?
Take this
but also this
and this as well
All from top REDs.
Enough with this «unrealistic expectations» fallacy. Just like the «nitpicking» accusation, it's nothing but vapour.
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Take this
All from top REDs.
Enough with this «unrealistic expectations» fallacy. Just like the «nitpicking» accusation, it's nothing but vapour.
Well we all have our version of "perfect" now don't we?
I mean, lots of people were clearly expecting the game to look much better than it did, after the E3 showing. They thought that the demo of a game 8 months before release, will look just like the polished screenshots. That is kind of unrealistic.
And since their expectations were too high, not without fault from the REDs, the nitpicking started. After the demo showing, a lot of people were posting, forgetting that the game is still in development.
Same thing happened with the character reveals. The moment Ciri and Yennefer were "introduced", there were many comments on what CDPR did wrong with them. Which happened because of the extra hype during these days. We did not know if Yennefer or Ciri would be in the game, and everyone had his own version of the character in their head.
So, I guess what I'm trying to say is, that this game looks like it's going to be awesome. The REDs confirm that it IS awesome. Everyone is excited. Whenever we don't get the info we expect to get (be it interviews or gameplay), we get restless. Whenever we see something new that somehow looks different than we imagined, we get restless. This feeling of restlessness causes, "nitpicky" comments as well as posts full of impatience.
I mean, lots of people were clearly expecting the game to look much better than it did, after the E3 showing. They thought that the demo of a game 8 months before release, will look just like the polished screenshots. That is kind of unrealistic.
And since their expectations were too high, not without fault from the REDs, the nitpicking started. After the demo showing, a lot of people were posting, forgetting that the game is still in development.
Same thing happened with the character reveals. The moment Ciri and Yennefer were "introduced", there were many comments on what CDPR did wrong with them. Which happened because of the extra hype during these days. We did not know if Yennefer or Ciri would be in the game, and everyone had his own version of the character in their head.
So, I guess what I'm trying to say is, that this game looks like it's going to be awesome. The REDs confirm that it IS awesome. Everyone is excited. Whenever we don't get the info we expect to get (be it interviews or gameplay), we get restless. Whenever we see something new that somehow looks different than we imagined, we get restless. This feeling of restlessness causes, "nitpicky" comments as well as posts full of impatience.
Sorry guys. Just described the problem with link and asked to use international language.
I'm afraid I don't get what your point is.
From my experience, one tends to use clichés, hollow memes, vague abstractions such as «nitpicking», «unrealistic expectations», «comparing apples to oranges», etc., in place of real thought. For example, when you make a sweeping statement like «(...) lots of people were clearly expecting the game to look much better than it did, after the E3 showing», I have to point out to you it directly contradicts my experience around here. The worst reaction the E3 footage ever got was half a dozen «mediocre». Does this fit in with a scenario of unrealistic expectations wrecked across the board?
Personally, I'm extremely pleased with what came out of E3. But you did fail to mention the terms of comparison are not screenshots and E3 footage, but the VGX and SoD trailers and E3 footage, the latter holding its own, as I see it. Anyway, I don't think anyone stares at the monitor and finds himself thinking «Nope, game ain't flawless.» and then goes online on a criticism spree. What happens is people naturally react to what's important to them. So instead of posting generic complaints about the game looking much worse than what they expected, they start a thread on crossbows, on black hair not being really black, on Geralt having had a facelift, etc. These specific issues matter to them. That's pretty much all you'd be justified in saying.
Just how many people dissed the entire TW3 creative endeavour over just the crossbow, sub-black hair or too round an outline? As far as I can tell, it's not that most think the game is bad. They just want it to be as good as possible, knowing all along it won't be perfect.
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Well we do agree Jupiter, most people that post here, do so with the intention to help the game developers realize, what they have done wrong, so that the game will be the best it can be, when it comes out. Each and everyone, posts wherever they feel like they should, and as you said, they do it on threads that talk about what is important to them.
Our experiences of the E3 showing are different though. I remember the chat's reaction after the Microsoft showing. There were mostly comments like this: "The hell, people didn't clap", "Okay that was weird, I'll need to watch this again" and so on. Which would allow me to assume that the showing was received as mediocre by a quite a few people. Myself included at that point. Which means that it did not meet people's expectations. Since it was quite obvious to me that everyone wanted to type "WOW", but could not quite do so.
That being said, the climate changed quite a bit, after the next showings. It was still far away from what people expected before E3.
Now were these expectations unrealistic? I'm not one to judge that. But in my opinion and experience, they were higher than what was showed.
Nevertheless I am happy as well, with the overall E3 showings.
I understand that you do not quite like the word "nitpicking" and the likes. I don't either. I'll try not to use the quite popular term then.
What I feel like is happening, is that "naturally" people focus on the negative parts of the showings, since these are the ones that need to be worked on. This adds pressure to the REDs along with the feedback. Of course everyone is entitled to post whatever they feels like, always following the Forum rules. But I think it would be quite helpful to the developers to hear some nice words every now and then. Which happens, but in my opinion not enough, since I've been hearing that the REDs are kind of "scared" of our criticism. That should be enough of an indication.
So I would say, that there is no real disagreement here. Simply our experience of the E3 showing was different.
Our experiences of the E3 showing are different though. I remember the chat's reaction after the Microsoft showing. There were mostly comments like this: "The hell, people didn't clap", "Okay that was weird, I'll need to watch this again" and so on. Which would allow me to assume that the showing was received as mediocre by a quite a few people. Myself included at that point. Which means that it did not meet people's expectations. Since it was quite obvious to me that everyone wanted to type "WOW", but could not quite do so.
That being said, the climate changed quite a bit, after the next showings. It was still far away from what people expected before E3.
Now were these expectations unrealistic? I'm not one to judge that. But in my opinion and experience, they were higher than what was showed.
Nevertheless I am happy as well, with the overall E3 showings.
I understand that you do not quite like the word "nitpicking" and the likes. I don't either. I'll try not to use the quite popular term then.
What I feel like is happening, is that "naturally" people focus on the negative parts of the showings, since these are the ones that need to be worked on. This adds pressure to the REDs along with the feedback. Of course everyone is entitled to post whatever they feels like, always following the Forum rules. But I think it would be quite helpful to the developers to hear some nice words every now and then. Which happens, but in my opinion not enough, since I've been hearing that the REDs are kind of "scared" of our criticism. That should be enough of an indication.
So I would say, that there is no real disagreement here. Simply our experience of the E3 showing was different.
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Those same people clapped their brains out at a CGI trailer. So I wouldn't take the reaction of the Microsoft conference crowd too seriously. Not to mention TW3 was one of the few games (if not the only one, don't remember) to have a live demo, and not some pre-recorded b-roll or CGI crap.
And Jupiter is talking about the reactions on the forums, not of those on a stream or internet in general.
Oh I'm not taking their reaction seriously, most of them were not even fans of the series, I believe. I was merely stating what comments I saw in the chat and later on the forum, after the showing. Since I'm talking about the chat that the forumites were using.
Everyone cooled down in the end and started posting some constructive feedback. It's all good. What bothers me is that CDPR think that we are quite "nitpicky" (here we go again). Which is not a new thing anyway. But it's in our hands to change it.
To sum it up: we are all acting like ungrateful pricks who think they are better game designers / PR managers.
.....well, so what ? At least we recycle our trash !
I mean...we do that, right ?
(...is...is there anyone here who does ?)
.....well, so what ? At least we recycle our trash !
I mean...we do that, right ?
(...is...is there anyone here who does ?)
Well said my friend, well said.
I wouldn't be surprised if the reason the game got pushed back some was because of some of the issues people brought up on the forum (the animations, the potions, the combat, etc). It was a chance to get feedback from the friends and ensure they have enough time to do what they can to live up to expectations by the game's release. That being said, and I've said it before, you can't please everybody. There will things that people will bitch and moan about, but that also seems like a part of the norm in internet society these days, and there will be those who will have legitimate critiques and points. Maybe some of those will make it into a patch or into a possible Enhanced Edition, but I for one am just as excited for TW3 as I was when they finally did the first unveil of it.
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Main reasons why people were unsure about the Microsoft presentation:Oh I'm not taking their reaction seriously, most of them were not even fans of the series, I believe. I was merely stating what comments I saw in the chat and later on the forum, after the showing. Since I'm talking about the chat that the forumites were using.
Everyone cooled down in the end and started posting some constructive feedback. It's all good. What bothers me is that CDPR think that we are quite "nitpicky" (here we go again). Which is not a new thing anyway. But it's in our hands to change it.
-it felt rushed (and it was, CDPR themselves said they tried to cram as much as possible in the 15 min that they had available);
-it was a stream (later, cleaned up footage looked way better);
-it was running on an xbox (the swamp and Novigrad demos, which ran on PC, blew the MS one out of the water).
Aside from like 2 people (one of which got banned in the end) most received the demo quite well, while acknowledging that the game indeed still needed work (no surprise there).
I just went back to the first page and saw that they never mentioned showing the gameplay outside anywhere else other than Comic con. So yeah I don't think the people in charge of PR were planning on releasing it anytime soon if it ever gets released.
Guys you have to realize that you're a very small community, yes of course there are some people at CDPR(those hired to be here at the forums) who care but right now when its all about Business and numbers, then we are all inconsequential.
I'm imagining Marcin or someone going to whoever's in charge of PR and showing them how much we want to see the footage but the guy/gal shows him the numbers and explains that no it can't be done.
Guys you have to realize that you're a very small community, yes of course there are some people at CDPR(those hired to be here at the forums) who care but right now when its all about Business and numbers, then we are all inconsequential.
I'm imagining Marcin or someone going to whoever's in charge of PR and showing them how much we want to see the footage but the guy/gal shows him the numbers and explains that no it can't be done.
Check the 4th page, no exact date given but they've said the footage will be shown to public.
It took awhile...and I do mean just that, but I just went through each and every page of the 86 so far in this thread.
I've laughed and sometimes I've cringed but mostly I've appreciated the posts and the sharing of videos. You know who you are. :laughing:
I think I expected something grander in the end though, with the build-up and speculation of there being another video or more info to reveal. All in all I'm happy. I am. And I still love the devs and have the utmost faith in them!
I think @shinobi2u's picture of the hypetrain got the most laughs from me. Many thanks for that! Best post in thread however go to @Kinley! ^_^
EDIT: Oh, and I ciriously(!) think @EmperorZorn and @Kinley should join forces for Gamescom! I expect nothing less of it being a blast. :laughing:
No, but I'd love to see your adventure in pictures and of course @Kinley's prepared interview, with @EmperorZorn as trusty wingman. I wonder if you look as I've pictured you. And no, don't let the gif speak of my imagination. 'Tis was just cool 'broment of joining forces', that's all. ^_^
I've laughed and sometimes I've cringed but mostly I've appreciated the posts and the sharing of videos. You know who you are. :laughing:
I think I expected something grander in the end though, with the build-up and speculation of there being another video or more info to reveal. All in all I'm happy. I am. And I still love the devs and have the utmost faith in them!
I think @shinobi2u's picture of the hypetrain got the most laughs from me. Many thanks for that! Best post in thread however go to @Kinley! ^_^
EDIT: Oh, and I ciriously(!) think @EmperorZorn and @Kinley should join forces for Gamescom! I expect nothing less of it being a blast.
:laughing:
No, but I'd love to see your adventure in pictures and of course @Kinley's prepared interview, with @EmperorZorn as trusty wingman. I wonder if you look as I've pictured you. And no, don't let the gif speak of my imagination. 'Tis was just cool 'broment of joining forces', that's all. ^_^
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Here's a suggestion for making the wait for Gamescom more tolerable, play the previous Witcher games again =D I'm currently on my fifth playthrough of TW2, and will probably play both again in quick succession before the release of TW3.
Yep, I been playing TW2 on my 360 to pass some time. It's so awesome to think about TW3 when I play TW2 because to me at least TW3 is way better in every way, and it is what I always wanted TW2 to be in the first place.
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Please remember that we are under NDA, so we cannot give away answers to a lot of questions that are being asked except in the broadest terms. This leads a lot of people to not post, because why say something when you can't give clear answers? And why can we not talk about things? Various reasons...none of them nefarious or backhanded. Most of the time it's due to the natural process of game development, meaning that things change, at any stage of development and giving specific details only risks a possible change later and then you'll look silly. So that's one reason.
Of course, sometimes talking to fans can be scary as well. Words of RED's tend to be put under a microscope and analyzed from every possible angle and sometimes, no matter how clear we try to be, they will be misinterpreted, which can lead to problems down the road.
Again, I do not think we are scared, so much as we can't really address it here. For example, I can't tell you details about changes from the version that was shown at E3 to what we have now. I can't talk about them, because again, various reasons and none of them have malicious intent behind them.
One other main reason is that we simply do not have the time to really post here and the people who do have time, seldomly have a deep insight into the systems or parts of the game that are being talked about. I am taking about half an hour out of my day right now to write this post. Half an hour I could be spending polishing a quest (and will be, because I'll add that half hour to the end of the day, but you get my meaning).
A lot of us prefer to let our game speak for itself. It sometimes is a bit frustrating (and leads to the desire to not talk publicly) that there is a feeling of distrust from fans. While perfectly understandable in today's industry, please try to understand this from our point of view. as well. We try our best to deliver a great game. But while it is in development, things are in flux. Things change. Yes, even "close" to release.
Little addendum here. People WERE actually clapping and cheering for the Witcher Demo at the MS conference. The stream/audio just did not capture any of the crowds reactions. But from what Konrad told us, there was a HUGE reaction to the demo.
I would not go so far. People are acting like this because they care about the game. This is understandable. Trust me, it would be a lot worse if there would be constant silence or only praise from the community. As someone pointed out, nothing will ever make EVERYone happy. It is important that the community voices concerns and gives feedback.To sum it up: we are all acting like ungrateful pricks who think they are better game designers / PR managers.
.....well, so what ? At least we recycle our trash !
I mean...we do that, right ?
(...is...is there anyone here who does ?)
It is also important for people to realize that we have reasons why we do things the way we do. Sometimes, it feels like fans just assume we are not showing things when we COULD show so much more. And if we can't show more, it must be because our game is completely unfinished or whatever horrible disaster reason.
The truth is most often much simpler. We are making a game. Things change. Showing things in development is something we only do sparingly, because we always try to show the best possible representation of the game we can, be it screenshots, trailers or other marketing things.
In the end, I guess, I am asking for a bit of trust. I know that's hard to do with something you hold so dear. And I am not asking for you to not speak out your mind if you see something that seems weird/lacking/could be better. Just try to not assume the worst simply because there is no screenshots/videos for a while or we do not respond to every question asked. Keep in mind that our main focus lies in making the game amazing and that does not always equate to having amazing trailers all the time.
Thank you all for your continued support and enthusiasm. It helps us a lot.
@GingerEffect
Thank you for this post, and for the time you spent on it. I do understand why you do not at times answer to questions or not post here on the forum. I do not mind it at all, since I'm sure there is always a reason. By saying "I'm sure", I mean that I trust that it is so.
That is what I was trying to say, and hopefully you did not misunderstand it. That us forumites need to SHOW more trust to you guys, since I believe it will make your job easier as well as browsing the forum, more fun. Of course you guys are not scared to answer our questions, that is why I put the quotation on the word. What I meant was, that when you do sit down on interviews, to answer questions from the forum, you give out this feeling of unease, which might be attributed to humor as well, since people on the Forum, really do pay attention to every little detail, and give you guys a hard time. It's not bad that they do either, as you said so yourself. But sometimes, trust must be shown.
So yeah, keep doing what you are doing, obviously it is working. And even if we might want answers to some questions, we understand why you sometimes do not give them. You've shown me at least, that whatever decision you guys make, is because you want to make the game the best it can be. And I know that you do not like lying to gamers. I thank you for that. You have my full trust and support. As little as it is.
Thank you for this post, and for the time you spent on it. I do understand why you do not at times answer to questions or not post here on the forum. I do not mind it at all, since I'm sure there is always a reason. By saying "I'm sure", I mean that I trust that it is so.
That is what I was trying to say, and hopefully you did not misunderstand it. That us forumites need to SHOW more trust to you guys, since I believe it will make your job easier as well as browsing the forum, more fun. Of course you guys are not scared to answer our questions, that is why I put the quotation on the word. What I meant was, that when you do sit down on interviews, to answer questions from the forum, you give out this feeling of unease, which might be attributed to humor as well, since people on the Forum, really do pay attention to every little detail, and give you guys a hard time. It's not bad that they do either, as you said so yourself. But sometimes, trust must be shown.
So yeah, keep doing what you are doing, obviously it is working. And even if we might want answers to some questions, we understand why you sometimes do not give them. You've shown me at least, that whatever decision you guys make, is because you want to make the game the best it can be. And I know that you do not like lying to gamers. I thank you for that. You have my full trust and support. As little as it is.
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No, thank you @GingerEffect, and for that half hour! I know how you feel, I've spend many hours here when I should have been doing something else. :happy:
Give my love to the team! I have faith in you, as I'm sure many of us have. I doubted once, but it only brought me here to this forum where I could meet new friends, learn of you devs, and learn of my mistake and that I had just misinterpreted a video. To think I seriously thought you devs would have Geralt fighting with hidden blades once. Not my proudest moment I tell you, but I own up to my mistakes and I'm grateful for it being set straight. And of course I'm grateful for you making two great games. I'm sure the third will be just as great! Thank you again!
Give my love to the team! I have faith in you, as I'm sure many of us have. I doubted once, but it only brought me here to this forum where I could meet new friends, learn of you devs, and learn of my mistake and that I had just misinterpreted a video. To think I seriously thought you devs would have Geralt fighting with hidden blades once.
Not my proudest moment I tell you, but I own up to my mistakes and I'm grateful for it being set straight. And of course I'm grateful for you making two great games. I'm sure the third will be just as great! Thank you again!
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