NG Mill Redux Took a Turn for the Worst

+
NG Mill Redux Took a Turn for the Worst

"Mill will no longer be an issue" - Burza46 2017. Heh, well that what doesn't kill you, only makes you stronger. And so we have Hybrid Mill in the flavors of Alchemy, Soldiers and Reveal. Now, I have always been a supporter of Mill because it was a gimmicky deck with an alternative win condition that appeared every now and then, in the same way that NR hand buff is an one-trick-pony. However, that's all in the past, now that Mill has become far more consistent and, partly because of that, has become competitively viable. The reason is that you no longer need to dedicate your whole deck towards it. With Alchemy you've got Ale for buffs and Viper Witchers for control. Next, with Soldiers you've got a powerful finisher using Sentry. And finally, Reveal just out-tempos everything. I would go as far as to say that the new Mill is inherently even more problematic than Dwarfs or Consume. With more cards being introduced, Mill will probably get even stronger over time as more tools are made available to (indirectly) mill your opponent (e.g. Stregobor).

This is one of the things that needs to change and there are various ways to solve the problem. The easiest way is to prevent card draws when either player is out of cards, effectively killing Mill. I rather not take it to this extreme, but it's a possibility, nonetheless. A variation on that is that the restriction only applies to silver cards, not gold (e.g. Avallac'h). Alternatively, individual cards could to be tweaked; mostly making cards like Albrich doomed/stubborn. Instead of nerfing Mill, another possibility is to make more tools available to counter it. You cannot not thin in every case, so having cards like Nenneke does help. However, it is limited to NR with limited usage (not counting Assire, who is ironically used in Mill). The only "real" counter, at the moment, is using Summoning Circle on Assire, which is too situational.

In the end, it's tricky to solve this archetype without killing it. Having more tools available to counter it is definitely a step in the right direction; maybe combined with a slight nerf to Mill.
 
Last edited:
Mill always felt like it wasn't intentional, like an archetype that spawned and hinged on certain discrepancies in card descriptions, like the old Magne Division. I don't know but I hate it personally. So boring to play against and slightly less so with.

I'd far prefer it if it was killed altogether to be perfectly honest ;)
 
Last edited:
Mill is one of my favourite deck archetypes, when I told my friends about the different ways you could win a game mill was one that stuck out the most. I think that case alone makes it something that should somewhat stay in the game... though I don't feel that it is currently strong at all. I can't think of any variations of hybrid mill that actually benefit from the rounds going longer. Old mill pretty much always got to a point where the enemy had 0 cards but now it doesn't really get to that point as easily, at least in my opinion, which therefore just makes the rounds go for longer instead of removing the enemies opportunities
 
I find mill very annoying to play against - although having said that, I wouldn't like it removed from the game. I think card variety and alt win cons are pretty much nothing but a good thing, regardless of how annoying.
 
I did found Mill BORING before the Mid-Winter Patch, but now I am thoroughly enjoying it, as it is a great counter to the stupid Dorfs and if you draw Sweers in time it can totally kill the Consume vomit. Games also do not last as long as before, maybe because most of the decks are thinning down to 5-6 cards now.

I think the archetype should exist, as we lost so many others - just look at the state of Skellige and, hey - Scoia'Tael.
 
I always had a mill deck, since CB times and still update it with every patch, however i think its power depends on the meta, it's obviously good against decks that thin themselves a lot.
Outside that it's not that great and even its consistency is greatly exaggerated or i'm just that unlucky that i can't draw Avalac'h and also ended up cutting Renew because more often than not was a dead draw.
 
I think mill is a great archetype. It's has a completely different way of winning from other archetypes which I find cool. It feels you're exhausting your opponent's resources.
 
I tried a bit of Alchemy Mill NG last season, and as much as I enjoyed playing that deck (I'm enjoying it more than the old Emhyr Mill decks), it never felt healthy for the game! Currently, I think there are too many ways to mill the opponent. I never liked the fact that you can draw cards with a non-gold cards, long after your opponent has run out of cards. Doing that with gold cards is one thing, but having several silver cards to repeat that action, is just more than questionable from my point of view. And it's no longer a matter of deck thinning, because with all these mill options even a deck with little thinning can run out of cards.
 
Adding more cards, which can let your opponent draw more cards and declaring mill a thing of the past are two things which just don't fit together.
Look at this list:
Avallac'h, Shilard, Stregebor, Albrich, Sweers + Emhyr and Decoy to use Stregebor, Albrich or Sweers again + Renew + cards like Vilgefortz or Tibor you want to use after your opponent ran out of cards.
I've faced a lot of mill decks the last couple of days and although I won more than 50% of those matches I just can't enjoy playing against them. OP is correct by saying these decks have improved tempo. Because of that dead tutor cards are hurting more than before.
 
Last edited:
Fight Mill with Stubbornness!

Give Albrich and Stregobor the Stubborn tag.

Simple as that.

After all, 'Mill' works by endlessly replaying/bouncing the same cards with Emhyr/Decoy/resurrected Emhyr.
Just make sure those can not be played again and again and the problem is solved.
The system fully support it, and it's a matter to add a simple tag.
Players who use Albrich in Reveal will not be hurt, just like players who use Stregobor with Calveit.
 
ser2440;n10411522 said:
Tir_na_Lia There still exists Sweers which is a less obvious case. Do you give Sweers the stubborn tag or not? But other than that, that's a great idea :)

About Sweers, I'm on the fence.

His role as a tech card is essential to prevent decks like Nekker train from becoming too strong, but nowhere is written that he should absolutely be used more than once.

Since you made a direct question :), the answer is: "Sweers NOT becoming Stubborn would work just fine, provided Albrich and Stregobor get the tag".
It would probably be enough to cripple Mill.

I've heard they are considering make Avallac'h Doomed, I hope they'll really do it, no one Renews him outside Mill.
Shilard too should become Doomed, of course. He should be a finisher/tactical choice with Calveit, not an excuse to draw more cards.
 
There is a way more elegant way to deal with this an it is to make Truce as it is with Shilard - draw cards since your opponent have.

But I won't do it. I stopped having issues with Mill after the Mid-Winter Fiasco. Those are decks that actually rely on skill and not just on a braindead point vomit Bears/Dorfs RNG Extravaganza.
 
He should be a finisher/tactical choice with Calveit, not an excuse to draw more cards.

I use him like that on my Reveal Deck but that's because it relies on having the right cards in your hand that one :p It doesn't mill itself and its opponent to shambles and then exploits the fact they have no other cards left to draw more and gain card advantage.

I have huge issues with Mill actually. Aside from how boring it is, even if it doesn't often offer Card Advantage these days, it basically makes your thinners brick in your hand. If you use deck thinners, then they are bricked by Mill. If you don't, then you are at everyone else's mercy and only relying on the initial draw which is a good way to lose just about every game against anything but Mill.
 
It's only really fun when you are the mill player... being up against mill is not so fun. So yeah, it's an unhealthy thing in my opinion and has to go. Not letting you draw a card when you're opponent doesn't draw one is a good idea.

Mill would still kind of work though, I mean you'll be holding a bunch of good cards as a mill player, when one player has been milled, while your opponent will be holding a bunch of bricked cards. Don't know if that is a good thing either but you can't really prevent that from happening can you?
 
This is an interesting thread to me because I love playing against Mill decks. They play right into my deck's strengths, and I cannot remember ever losing to this archetype.

Is Mill difficult to play against for other faction-archetypes, because it reduces the efficiency of chain-summoning? (Swarn, SK Priestesses, QG etc..)
 
Top Bottom