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KakitaTatsumaru

KakitaTatsumaru

Forum veteran
#61
Jun 27, 2020
Rawls said:
Couple interviews:
https://www.vg247.com/2020/06/25/cyberpunk-2077-interview-choice-consequence/
www.pcgamesn.com/cyberpunk-2077/interview-max-pears
Click to expand...
Contradictions:
"We want the player to feel like it’s their story. Players are going to customise their V in ways we might not have thought about, and we hope that people mess around with all of those options so it feels like it’s your story, your V, and your cyberpunk. "

"That’s the tricky part, to be honest, because it all started with defining V as a character. We wanted to give you as much freedom as we could, so you can decide what kind of cyberpunk you’re going to be. You can choose how you look, who you are, to some extent, and so on. But we wanted you still to be a cohesive person, like a person who would be alive, not doing stuff from totally different angles. So, you still seem to be the same character. "
 
K

kissybyc3

Forum regular
#62
Jun 27, 2020
gregski said:
Click to expand...
While I'm no fan of level gating, I think in CP2077 it makes a bit more sense than in Witcher, because here V actually starts out weak and ends up strong, so it is not too immersion-breaking that some gangs are just too tough for us now. In Witcher on the other hand, Geralt starts out the game as a master swordsman, and it makes absolutely no sense that he can't take on a bandit camp because "levels."
 
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lelxrv

lelxrv

Forum veteran
#63
Jun 27, 2020
Level gating was inevitable. I'm yet to see a game that manages to do both freedom of traverse and structured narrative without it. You either hub the shit out of it or level gate.

For me it's not an issue. There's still some freedom of exploration and stuff like that. You have many side opportunities and you're free to prioritize within allowed progression.
 
Last edited: Jun 27, 2020
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Metropolice

Metropolice

Senior user
#64
Jun 27, 2020
KakitaTatsumaru said:
Contradictions:
"We want the player to feel like it’s their story. Players are going to customise their V in ways we might not have thought about, and we hope that people mess around with all of those options so it feels like it’s your story, your V, and your cyberpunk. "

"That’s the tricky part, to be honest, because it all started with defining V as a character. We wanted to give you as much freedom as we could, so you can decide what kind of cyberpunk you’re going to be. You can choose how you look, who you are, to some extent, and so on. But we wanted you still to be a cohesive person, like a person who would be alive, not doing stuff from totally different angles. So, you still seem to be the same character. "
Click to expand...
Hm, I more so see certain constrictions you simply have to deal with depending on how you tackle a plot or story.

I'm by no means a quest or game plot designer or writer. But I would bring forth symbolic examples:

1) A random Call of Duty game
2) An (online?) sandbox building game
3) A(ny) recent Fallout or Elder Scrolls RPG game

With example 1 we have something very linear or defined. You are a set character in a "tunnel level" and fixed narrative - you cannot deviate much, only be in it for the ride like a rollercoaster ride. You enter, enjoy while staying on rails or a guided path and then exit.

The second example is probably located on the polar opposite side. I have played quite a few of them because I enjoyed them. You are in essence or often (depends on the exact game and frame) thrown into a large world where you, the player, has no hard-coded story path and has to make a lot up for himself or with other players, like factions. It's the "tight vs loose" approach. You have more freedoms and more definition because it's largely up to you, but there's no story path - or not one in the classic sense.

Option 3 is some sort of combination or compromise that you often see in many SP RPG games. Since I did not play the Witcher I cannot comment on that so I picked Fallout or TES. Here, you do have a story of sorts and a somewhat defined special character, but are granted many freedoms within the story frame. In New Vegas it would be what main factions or side factions you support or engage. Compared to the other options this is like a compromise because it aims to both tell an ideally compelling story while granting you certain deviations or freedoms - opposed to the total "being on rails" or "being in the gigantic sandbox" experience.

The same I see with Cyberpunk. Obviously, my own preference would've been a tad more freedom in terms of classic joinable factions within a main narrative but I get that it's a style choice in the end, depending on how you want to tell a story. They have picked this approach.

The trick basically is to tell a story with a somewhat defined character while still allowing you freedoms and customization or branching-out options. Sometimes it's a hard thing to balance. And it won't, can't, please everyone.

But before I judge this from afar, I will do so when I eventually play the game. So far nothing 'scared me off' at all and I look forward to the game and world. And perhaps also mods if modding will be above-average or solid, beyond simple mini-tweaks and texture or mesh replacers.

Besides, even if you want to be totally pessimistic: It'll be the first game in a series of games. We're in essence looking at the Witcher 1 here, and there will be follow-up Cyberpunk games with different changes compared to the prior ones. So, if one wanted to be pessimistic, which is fine, I'd argue that it can only get better with DLCs, potential mods and follow-up games.
 
Mybrokenenglish

Mybrokenenglish

Senior user
#65
Jun 27, 2020
KakitaTatsumaru said:
Lets hops mods will be there fast.
Click to expand...
Not on consoles. :giveup:
Post automatically merged: Jun 27, 2020

lelxrv said:
Level gating was inevitable. I'm yet to see a game that manages to do both freedom of traverse and structured narrative without it. You either hub the shit out of it or level gate.
Click to expand...
You haven't played RDR2, I guess. :)
 
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lelxrv

lelxrv

Forum veteran
#66
Jun 27, 2020
Mybrokenenglish said:
Not on consoles. :giveup:
Post automatically merged: Jun 27, 2020


You haven't played RDR2, I guess. :)
Click to expand...
I didn't play it, but what I read about it doesn't make it a fitting example to what I meant.
 
Mybrokenenglish

Mybrokenenglish

Senior user
#67
Jun 27, 2020
lelxrv said:
I didn't play it, but what I read about it doesn't make it a fitting example to what I meant.
Click to expand...
I probably didn't get what you meant then, but RDR2 is a huge open-world (main quest is 50ish hours alone), with lots of exploration, many random events, several side activities, and side quests that unlocks with game progression. No levels nor important loot.
 
Rasuka

Rasuka

Fresh user
#68
Jun 27, 2020
Was there any preview indicating that there is a photo mode?
Apart from the fact that there should be one, we knew nothing else about it.
 
lelxrv

lelxrv

Forum veteran
#69
Jun 27, 2020
Mybrokenenglish said:
I probably didn't get what you meant then, but RDR2 is a huge open-world (main quest is 50ish hours alone), with lots of exploration, many random events, several side activities, and side quests that unlocks with game progression. No levels nor important loot.
Click to expand...
Is it an RPG?
 
CyberBrett

CyberBrett

Senior user
#70
Jun 27, 2020
Mybrokenenglish said:
I probably didn't get what you meant then, but RDR2 is a huge open-world (main quest is 50ish hours alone), with lots of exploration, many random events, several side activities, and side quests that unlocks with game progression. No levels nor important loot.
Click to expand...
But it`s not an open world as such , you can`t go anywhere on the map only the first part of the map . Then when the story open up you can go to an other part of the map and so on .
 
Bloodartist

Bloodartist

Senior user
#71
Jun 27, 2020
ReptilePZ said:
Yeah, you need some sense of normalcy to make the unusual stand out. When everything is special, nothing is.
Click to expand...
In my opinion the best thing would be to have different areas of the city to have these elements. There would be the district of white-collar workers where V would stand out like a sore thumb. Then when I enter the seedy nightlife neighborhoods, everything would be bigger than life. I trust in CDPR, and I would rather have them err on the side of "more" rather than less. In in doubt, moar style!
 
lelxrv

lelxrv

Forum veteran
#72
Jun 27, 2020
ReptilePZ said:
Yeah, you need some sense of normalcy to make the unusual stand out. When everything is special, nothing is.
Click to expand...
Not sure why dialed to eleven should be special and standout in this world. Stand out here is when people don't use enhancements or drugs, when they don't look like pavos. Or when it's dialed to twelve.
 
Mybrokenenglish

Mybrokenenglish

Senior user
#73
Jun 27, 2020
lelxrv said:
Is it an RPG?
Click to expand...
of course not, but I don't see why being an RPG should limit the game design itself. You add numbers to RDR2, everything is playable in the exact same way.
CyberBrett said:
But it`s not an open world as such , you can`t go anywhere on the map only the first part of the map . Then when the story open up you can go to an other part of the map and so on .
Click to expand...
Sure you can go wherever you want from the beginning. There's absolutely nothing stopping you from going to saint denis after finishing the prologue and meet some random encounters.
 
CyberBrett

CyberBrett

Senior user
#74
Jun 27, 2020
For all the Judy lovers out there :love:

 
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Mybrokenenglish

Mybrokenenglish

Senior user
#75
Jun 27, 2020
lelxrv said:
So if it's played in the exact same way, why fret about it?
Click to expand...
first, it'd be the same way for RDR2, but not for CP77 when you have bullet sponges and locked missions because of the levels.
Second, it's immersion-breaking.
 
ReptilePZ

ReptilePZ

Wordrunner
#76
Jun 27, 2020
Bloodartist said:
In my opinion the best thing would be to have different areas of the city to have these elements. There would be the district of white-collar workers where V would stand out like a sore thumb. Then when I enter the seedy nightlife neighborhoods, everything would be bigger than life. I trust in CDPR, and I would rather have them err on the side of "more" rather than less. In in doubt, moar style!
Click to expand...
Well, that's sort of the hope, right? We've only seen small parts of the game, and mostly from the prologue, so ideally that is why the characters have been so weak.

Although I don't think that having everything in a given area be bigger than life just because there's a magical rule in the lore is believable. It's a valid choice for them to make, of course, however I don't personally think that having a world populated by less believable characters will result in a game as memorable as CDPR might want. It's hard to care after 100 hours of in-your-face, larger-than-life characters.

lelxrv said:
Not sure why dialed to eleven should be special and standout in this world. Stand out here is when people don't use enhancements or drugs, when they don't look like pavos. Or when it's dialed to twelve.
Click to expand...
As I said above: because it isn't believable and I'm already over it after less than 2 hours of footage, when we're talking about a game with a much longer runtime than that. It's hard to care and feel the tension of a situation when the characters themselves don't seem to be invested.

We know there's a turning point after 'the gig' where V gets brought back down to Earth and things might start getting more serious. I hope that's the case.
 
lelxrv

lelxrv

Forum veteran
#77
Jun 27, 2020
Mybrokenenglish said:
first, it'd be the same way for RDR2, but not for CP77 when you have bullet sponges and locked missions because of the levels.
Second, it's immersion-breaking.
Click to expand...
RDR2 is basically an action game with free roam. There's no need for beefed up enemies because of how much your character evolves.

It's a challenge for many action RPGs, though. Being both narrative-driven and with an extended character progression, I don't think game industry came up with a perfect solution for it. You have to cut it short somewhere. You have to cut length of a game to keep free roam and fine tune a million things, increase length yet split it into many hubs to narrow it down and make it easier to balance or simply brute force it with level gating and bullet spoonges. In every case there's a major sacrifice.
 
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Raxaphan

Raxaphan

Senior user
#78
Jun 27, 2020
I read that there are 240 perks in total. I wonder if all of them are useful, or only just a handful you go with every time you play and the rest are just fillers.
Also never understood how putting perks into a weapon category can magically increase its damage and critical.
I also have problems with putting points in body, intelligence etc can improve you without doing an activity associated with that attribute.
 
KakitaTatsumaru

KakitaTatsumaru

Forum veteran
#79
Jun 27, 2020
lelxrv said:
Level gating was inevitable. I'm yet to see a game that manages to do both freedom of traverse and structured narrative without it. You either hub the shit out of it or level gate.

For me it's not an issue. There's still some freedom of exploration and stuff like that. You have many side opportunities and you're free to prioritize within allowed progression.
Click to expand...
You know that you can make things more difficult without resorting to level gating, you know?
There's a reason why it's harder to attack Arasaka in it's own place or to go to Combat Zone, and the reason isn't "levels".

Saying that level gating is inevitable is a lacks of imagination to me.
 
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Rawls

Rawls

Moderator
#80
Jun 27, 2020
KakitaTatsumaru said:
Contradictions:
"We want the player to feel like it’s their story. Players are going to customise their V in ways we might not have thought about, and we hope that people mess around with all of those options so it feels like it’s your story, your V, and your cyberpunk. "

"That’s the tricky part, to be honest, because it all started with defining V as a character. We wanted to give you as much freedom as we could, so you can decide what kind of cyberpunk you’re going to be. You can choose how you look, who you are, to some extent, and so on. But we wanted you still to be a cohesive person, like a person who would be alive, not doing stuff from totally different angles. So, you still seem to be the same character. "
Click to expand...
Those aren't contradictory. Both can be true. Like I've been saying for years they're trying to strike a balance between allowing for player agency and a character that has narrative depth. These two things do not have to be mutually exclusive.
 
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