Just out of curiosity, are there any current games that handle dressing/undressing well? I remember wondering this in a recent thread over at The Witcher that was talking about capes - traditionally, the physics are a frigging nightmare, even worse than long hair. So has the technology been achieved yet?
I don't believe so, no.
It's been faked out many times to look like it, like with the romance in Mass Effect 2 between Shepard and Miranda. It merely pretends to have Miranda unzip her attire, when there is no zip, and it doesn't look like she zipped down anything. The camera pans to Shepard, then when we see Miranda again: BAM! She is [partially] undressed.
I hope game engines make it to that point, though.
Fallout New Vegas had both male and female strippers at the Gomorrah club. I think there were only a few of the prostitutes available for business. Both were female too. The way i see it...your catering to a demographic. If the ladies want some Magic Mike in their virtual rpg experience...then let it rain men upon them as a spring shower.
I hope CD Projekt do this right because I love Cyberpunk more than anything, but unfortunately too many of them get stuff like this completely wrong. Feels totally immersion breaking if the drugs or drinks reference real life stuff. Seeing stuff like Jet, Psycho, Vertigo and whatever else from other futuristic games was a good idea. You still get to have the narrative of a futuristic world (and more appropriately so, because it's customized) but without the risk of alienating a lot of potential players. I'm unfortunately cursed with severe alcohol anxiety, for instance, so inclusion of too much of that stuff as the real thing can mean I don't get to play this.
I loved Vampire: Bloodlines in general, but it was a picture perfect example of how not to do a nightclub. Music wasn't loud enough, and there weren't nearly enough people.
Mandatory for getting nightclubs to work properly in a game like this:
1. Find a low-cost way (in terms of processing power) to include hundreds of people at once in an enclosed space (and don't get lazy and use the same 5 models over and over). When the club is at its peak for the night, you should not be able to see the floor. Bonus points if you can implement changing traffic patterns (ie: new song comes on, people flock to the dance floor).
2. Implement some way to allow players to nudge/shove people out of the way when they're walking through the club. Bonus points if you can include a range of reactions (from "Oh, sorry, didn't see you there" all the way up to "Hey, you spilled my beer, moron!").
3. Make the music LOUD, and incorporate the fact that it's loud into any dialogue you engage in (thus necessitating the practice of grabbing the booth in the back corner to be able to do any real business). Also, invest in more than 3 tracks for the club's playlist. Bonus points for referencing the particular track that's playing into the current dialogue (as in, you bump into a skinny chick dressed in leather and spikes who's bouncing around to the music and she's all coked up and she looks right through you and says "Blood & Ice are AWESOME, dontcha think?!").
-- Ben
Mandatory for getting nightclubs to work properly in a game like this:
1. Find a low-cost way (in terms of processing power) to include hundreds of people at once in an enclosed space (and don't get lazy and use the same 5 models over and over). When the club is at its peak for the night, you should not be able to see the floor. Bonus points if you can implement changing traffic patterns (ie: new song comes on, people flock to the dance floor).
2. Implement some way to allow players to nudge/shove people out of the way when they're walking through the club. Bonus points if you can include a range of reactions (from "Oh, sorry, didn't see you there" all the way up to "Hey, you spilled my beer, moron!").
3. Make the music LOUD, and incorporate the fact that it's loud into any dialogue you engage in (thus necessitating the practice of grabbing the booth in the back corner to be able to do any real business). Also, invest in more than 3 tracks for the club's playlist. Bonus points for referencing the particular track that's playing into the current dialogue (as in, you bump into a skinny chick dressed in leather and spikes who's bouncing around to the music and she's all coked up and she looks right through you and says "Blood & Ice are AWESOME, dontcha think?!").
-- Ben
Item the first: I'm amused that we went from "night club / dance club / discotheque" to "strip club." Ha.
Item the second:
Item the second:
I think that could be a really cool random event; random person coming up to you, asking if you "want to score." If you agree, you get led to the grimy toilets in the back of the club; random chance of it being a legit transaction from a dealer, random chance that the person led you into an ambush to mug you...
Perhaps I'm playing devil's advocate here, but will you all really have fun with such things as nightclubs, and enough of fun to warrant devs sacrificing hundreds of hours of work for just this feature? I mean, besides having a drink (which will most likely have no constructive effect on my PC), clicking here and there to make my character dance, and perhaps buying something illegal from a shady guy in the corner, I doubt I'll even bother going there more that few times in the entire game. I mean, what could make me want to go clubbing in CP? Obviously there could be jobs that'll require me going there, but I'm not talking about such external determinants. What the clubs could offer me, besides few moments of 'that's cool' before leaving to do something more interesting?
I think most people are voicing ideas along the lines of, "It would be cool if they introduced..." rather than, "I really hope they include..."
None of the ideas I've seen in the thread so far would be dealbreakers for me, were they not included, but it'd be REALLY cool if they could implent any (or all!) of these suggested features.
None of the ideas I've seen in the thread so far would be dealbreakers for me, were they not included, but it'd be REALLY cool if they could implent any (or all!) of these suggested features.
I'd find it amusing to see just how we would all divvy up the developer's time allotment if we were in charge of DeveloperSim. We sure are worried about them not wasting any of the no-deadline-provided hours they have or any of the no-budget-mentioned resources.
Meanwhile, CDPR is looking at having in-game translators for non-local languages of the NPCs.
Wanna bet who would have included that on their list of features worth doing before it came out?
I would bet...less than1 in 10.
Meanwhile, CDPR is looking at having in-game translators for non-local languages of the NPCs.
Wanna bet who would have included that on their list of features worth doing before it came out?
I would bet...less than1 in 10.
Ahh, but you're mixing up "requirement" with "solution" here.
Frequently-stated requirements: Wide variation in NPCs, NPCs who don't just repeat the same phrases over and over again when you pass them. Voiced game.
Problem: Expensive dubbing in multiple languages
Solution: Translator implant with subtitles.
I..suppose. After dubbing the bulk of the conversation for the protagonist and every main NPC you speak to, ( because there is no way that the Europeans and the Chinese players are going to want to see the bulk of significant conversation as a sub title), I'm not sure how much cheaper it will be to have the bit-part NPCs and streetpeople subtitled. Especially when you have to have voice actors for the different languages anyway.
But maybe you're right - no idea on that cost analysis. So you're thinking CDPR is using the translator trick to cut down costs?
But maybe you're right - no idea on that cost analysis. So you're thinking CDPR is using the translator trick to cut down costs?
When it comes to RPGs one of the main catalysts I've seen is the repetitive line that filters into EVERY game. "Your sitting in a bar...." Night City has several clubs of note. The Afterlife. The Slammer. Totentenz. The Forlorn Hope. All of them cater to different types and clientelle, and all have been a catalyst in some way to the many stories in Night City. Even if those clubs are little more than go in and wander around they should be included. A couple things that might be added in regards to those clubs...
A certain level of Wardrobe and Style to get into a certain club...we cant have just anyone coming to the top club in the city.
Maybe a dance option....to work on that ever important dance IP.
Fixers in each location...so you can have your get a job in a bar moment.
NPC easter egg types....player characters aren't the only ones who go to clubs. Sometimes they spark some conversation...sometimes perhaps a mini mission. {Pretty girl in club...."Oh no a member of the ghetto boys stole my car...can you help..."
Drinking & Drugs. Both are pretty prevelent in the canon so you might as well have some.
The slammer....This screams cage matches and fight club to me.
Scheduled Events....Club concerts which invite some fun and maybe a little adventure.
Random drunks who need their asses kicked for being douchebags.
Chicks looking for a dance partner or good time.
A friendly game of darts or pool.
Maybe a not so friendly game with some hustling and maybe that cue stick turns to an improvised club.
Maybe bouncer missions.
Lots of possibilities for fun...
A certain level of Wardrobe and Style to get into a certain club...we cant have just anyone coming to the top club in the city.
Maybe a dance option....to work on that ever important dance IP.
Fixers in each location...so you can have your get a job in a bar moment.
NPC easter egg types....player characters aren't the only ones who go to clubs. Sometimes they spark some conversation...sometimes perhaps a mini mission. {Pretty girl in club...."Oh no a member of the ghetto boys stole my car...can you help..."
Drinking & Drugs. Both are pretty prevelent in the canon so you might as well have some.
The slammer....This screams cage matches and fight club to me.
Scheduled Events....Club concerts which invite some fun and maybe a little adventure.
Random drunks who need their asses kicked for being douchebags.
Chicks looking for a dance partner or good time.
A friendly game of darts or pool.
Maybe a not so friendly game with some hustling and maybe that cue stick turns to an improvised club.
Maybe bouncer missions.
Lots of possibilities for fun...
Just speculating, and looking back at what happened with TW2. There were definitely indications that the cost of dubbing was significant - they only dubbed into languages where there was expected to be a large market.
So not so much a way of cutting costs, but possibly a way of meeting certain requirements without a big cost increase. Or a way of diverting resources to meeting other requirements
And yes, it's one hell of a trick. And a good reason why CDPR don't, and shouldn't, respond directly to every request made in the forum. When customers suggest solutions, a developer should be looking at the base requirement - there's often an alternative solution that works a lot better.
I have no problem with that. For starters (almost) everybody that have played crpgs understand english well enough.
Secondly I think most European countries have subtitles on TV so people are very used to those. Few countries like Spain dub TV shows, but I can't see majority actually wanting that since it sounds so horrible usually.
Personally I watch movies and TV shows without subtitles, but always turn those on when playing games. Not that I would propably need them very often, but I just wanna make sure that when my companions decide to start fight when I'm having conversation I don't miss anything important
I'd be interested to hear what people from countries like Spain or Germany, where films/TV are usually dubbed, do think about it. I could be wrong, but I always got the impression that the dubbing was a state decision, not a preference expressed by the viewers. And there seem to be a lot of people on The Witcher forums who say they prefer the Polish version + subtitles, even if there's a fully-dubbed version available in their own language, just because the acting is better. Especially on the first game.
Also, I don't know about China, but in other developing/newly-developed countries, there's a preference for NOT dubbing English-language films, because exposure to English is thought, rightly or wrongly, to help improve the locals' English-language skills.
Also, I don't know about China, but in other developing/newly-developed countries, there's a preference for NOT dubbing English-language films, because exposure to English is thought, rightly or wrongly, to help improve the locals' English-language skills.
Yeah, well, in Poland it's a deeply rooted custom to use narrator instead of subtitles, and while there are some ideas of changing it, I don't see it happening quickly.
That's also my point. It'd be cool to have every single bit of the game as thickly packed with stuff as possible, but it all requires work, and even if CDPR declares that they'll release the game when it's ready, it's only partially true. CDPR is a company like any other, and they won't be able to simply put more and more money to polish every single bit of the game, even if they'd have TW3 to (hopefully) provide them with lots of resources. The CP2077 project would simply become unsustainable.
Don't get me wrong, I would love to have clubs glamorous as hell, full of sounds, lights, bouncing people, bouncing tits, bouncing bouncers, catfights, and whatnot, but I'm also aware that they'll only serve as a few minutes of distraction. I believe that's precisely why in most games clubs and pubs and inns and whatever are made as they are being made - empty, stiff and half-assed. Players will go there once or twice, spend maybe whooping 15 minutes and won't ever show up again, busy with actually doing things elsewhere. It simply isn't feasible putting a lot of effort in basically one-time quirk with no real impact on the game itself.
Now, if there'd be something that would really motivate me to go there repeatedly... Clubs would then actually become part of the game. Question is, what could be such a motivation. And I'm not talking about quests/jobs/whtevr, because they are basically external motivations. Sadly at the moment I don't have any idea of such.
Hm. Well, as someone who goes clubbing pretty regularly in real life, I can tell you why *I* enjoy clubbing, but I don't think that "the clubbing experience" can really be translated in to a game. In a game context, I see clubs / bars as more of a background; a studio or stage set, where the story unfolds, as it were.
To meet men?
To show off your awesome barbed-wire tats?
To Waggle?
To feel young and hip?
To put out your hip?
Because you absolutely, posilutely Got To Boogie?
Because violating parole makes the air taste sweeter?
Because everytime you look at a Kindergarten class you cry and need to drink?
All the above, plus sextra-dazzle?
I'm just guessing, here, based on, you know, stuff.