Nilfgaard is Actually Not that Bad

[Lanaya]

Nilfgaard is Actually Not that Bad

Doing some more reading I came to the conclusion that no matter how bad these people are made out to be, they are saints compared to the northern kingdoms with their undeserving kings.

The emperor is truly deserving of his title. He is manipulative and strong willed. I like that. Specially when we discover some secrets about him, it should be our top tier alligance.

If I have to take sides like Roche and Scoiatelle in Witcher 2, I will definitely pick Nilfgaard over the northern kingdoms. I mean even in the trailer, the so called corrupt soldiers were faaaaaar better than any northener.

If there were northeners they would rape her first, hang her, then rape her again then burn her corpse. It has been seen through out the entire series how the soldiers behave and there are several cases of rape even when dealing with other genders and races (yes, even dwarves).

Nilfgaardian soldiers were of course at wrong to torture the woman, she simply deserved to die for "looting, canibalism and killing of the wounded" but still, they didnt rape her. If they had just killed her, it would have been far better. But Im gonna let that one slide. I mean they had to portray the woman as innocent looking and the Nilfgaardian soldiers as vicious and as dumb as possible. its a trailer, so no biggie.

What I'm trying to get at is that Nilfgaard is certainly superior compared the the neighboring realms. They actually give a shit about the land and its prosperity, and I have a hunch that in the upcomming Witcher 3, The Emperor will help us defeat the Wild Hunt. Why else would you cast Charles Dance? I mean how can you hate that voice? he practically killed the entire main cast of Game of Thrones and people still love him.

I say, give Emperor the world, he deserves to rule it, It might actually get some order. Less work for geralt.

Also, PLEASE DO NOT compare this with todays modern society. I know that comparatively they are ALL shit and brutal, but at that time line - the semi-medieval era - Nilfgaard is considered the best among them. Not that they are good, but that they are best among what exist.

Who else are you going to support?

The incestuous Foltest?
The Rapist Henselt?
The Midget Self Pretentious Radovid? whom helped the Salamandra??

Yeah, I'll take the Emperor any day of the week, thank you very munch.

EDIT: Here is some extra info that people keep posing as evidence, please read - it has some spoilers - but i removed the names so its not really a spoiler but rather an event:

Spoiler

People claim that the Emperor was force marrying his own daughter, a daughter he has not seen in his entire life. Meaning that the word daughter is to him just a word. Now even so, he did not marry her, he let her go. This is more admirable. Every day we humans tempt and lust for eachother. some of us have thoughts darker than the void, and yet we do not ACT upon it. If anything! Emyr is a better person for restraining himself and not doing it WHILE HE COULD, to give away that much power.

You have been blinded by propaganda against the Empire, yes they are bad, but they were more civilized that we ever were at that age, and certainly much more civilized than the Northern Kingdoms.

 

[username_2093396]

I mean even in the trailer, the so called corrupt soldiers were faaaaaar better than any northener.

If there were northeners they would rape her first, hang her, then rape her again then burn her corpse. It has been seen through out the entire series how the soldiers behave and there are several cases of rape even when dealing with other genders and races (yes, even dwarves).

...

The incestuous Foltest?
The Rapist Henselt?

How far have you read in the books? I ask because a lot of your complaints about the north also apply to things that Nilfgaard has done (or was willing to do).

From the second novel:

Spoiler

Nilfgaardians soldiers raped a lot of people too. For example, it was a group of Nilfgaardians who took captured women and girls, including Mistle, raped them until they died, and then threw them into a ditch. From the fan translation of Times of Contempt:

When the population of Thurn fled the city before the news of the impending punitive expedition the notorious Peacekeepers of Gemmer, Mistle’s family also fled, but lost Mistle in the panic that gripped the crowd. A decorated and delicate lady, who from early childhood had been carried around in a sedan chair, was unable to keep up with the fugitives. After three days of wandering alone she fell into the clutches of slave hunters who followed the Nilfgaardians. A girl under seventeen years was worth a lot. If she was intact. The hunters did not touch Mistle, after checking earlier that she was intact. After that check, Mistle sobbed all night.
In the valley of Velda, the caravan of hunters was attacked and destroyed by a band of Nilfgaardian deserters. They killed all the hunters and male slaves. They spared only the girls. The girls did not know why they had been spared. The ignorance did not last long.
Mistle was the only one who survived. She was pulled from the ditch, where she was thrown, naked, covered in bruises, filth, mud and blood. She was saved by Asse, the son of a village blacksmith, who had followed the Nilfgaardians for three days, mad with desire for revenge for what the marauders had done with his father, mother and sisters, which he had witness while hiding among some reeds.

And in the final novel:

Spoiler

It's revealed that the Emperor is actually Ciri's father, which he knew all along, but he still spent the entire series trying to capture her so that he could force her to marry him against her will. He ultimately let her go only because she started sobbing that she had to marry him and would never see Geralt and Yennefer again. It's good that he had a change of heart, but what he was considering doing was as bad as Henselt and worse than Foltest (at least Foltest never raped anybody).

 

[Kodaemon5924]

Using a sawmill to mass execute prisoners of war /thread

 

[Garrison72]

I might join the Nilfs as well. Better than a bunch of ruthless and misguided misfit kings

 

[username_2093396]

Using a sawmill to mass execute prisoners of war /thread

Which reminds me of the elven brigade that officially served Nilfgaard during the battle of Brenna (not even talking about the Scioa'tael here, but an official unit that was acting under the Nilfgaardian general's command). They found the medic tents during the battle and killed a lot of wounded soldiers. The trailer might have been intentional irony, accusing the woman of killing the wounded despite all of the atrocities that Nilfgaard committed during the previous war.

 

[GuyNwah]

The ruthless intellectually and technologically advanced warmongers of the South are better than the ruthless ignorant backward warmongers of the North? Well, yeah, if you are a Leeuvarden; that is the side your bread is buttered on.

But no, there is nothing redeeming about the attitudes and actions of the Nilfgaardians. They are just more deliberate and efficient at pillage, rape, and genocide, and that hardly recommends them as leaders. Ward Dragon cited relevant passages; there are many more.

Geralt is right to despise the Kings of the North and just as right to hate the Empire for their abuse of captive societies and to call out the Emperor on his hideous plans.

 

[Lanaya]

How far have you read in the books? I ask because a lot of your complaints about the north also apply to things that Nilfgaard has done (or was willing to do).

From the second novel:

Spoiler

Nilfgaardians soldiers raped a lot of people too. For example, it was a group of Nilfgaardians who took captured women and girls, including Mistle, raped them until they died, and then threw them into a ditch. From the fan translation of Times of Contempt:

And in the final novel:

Spoiler

It's revealed that the Emperor is actually Ciri's father, which he knew all along, but he still spent the entire series trying to capture her so that he could force her to marry him against her will. He ultimately let her go only because she started sobbing that she had to marry him and would never see Geralt and Yennefer again. It's good that he had a change of heart, but what he was considering doing was as bad as Henselt and worse than Foltest (at least Foltest never raped anybody).

um . . . good that you posted those. lets highlight some of the keywords shall we?
fell into the clutches of slave hunters
band of Nilfgaardian deserters
(meaning they weren't official nilfgaardians that did that.)
He ultimately let her go -- some of the other kings were not as kind

Which reminds me of the elven brigade that officially served Nilfgaard during the battle of Brenna (not even talking about the Scioa'tael here, but an official unit that was acting under the Nilfgaardian general's command). They found the medic tents during the battle and killed a lot of wounded soldiers. The trailer might have been intentional irony, accusing the woman of killing the wounded despite all of the atrocities that Nilfgaard committed during the previous war.

Well, technically they were soldiers. and in the past there was no such treaty to leave the wounded alone. if you wound a soldier in your first hit, does that mean you cant kill him? of course not, you wound then kill. Their escape does not mean their immunity. They did what was rational AT THAT TIME LINE- Note that I disagree with anything resembling violence in real life. but in this fiction it makes sense strategically.

The ruthless intellectually and technologically advanced warmongers of the South are better than the ruthless ignorant backward warmongers of the North? Well, yeah, if you are a Leeuvarden; that is the side your bread is buttered on.

But no, there is nothing redeeming about the attitudes and actions of the Nilfgaardians. They are just more deliberate and efficient at pillage, rape, and genocide, and that hardly recommends them as leaders. Ward Dragon cited relevant passages; there are many more.

Geralt is right to despise the Kings of the North and just as right to hate the Empire for their abuse of captive societies and to call out the Emperor on his hideous plans.

Im not saying they are saints, Im saying saints comparatively. What would you do if you were forced to choose one of the sides? which would you choose? as you said, they do the same but are more civilized at it. Which of the lesser evils you take?

Although I think the trailer wanted to show us that we can actually choose none. I hope that is the case, but if it werent, what will be your choice? Nilfgaard or Northern?

 

[vivaxardas2015]

Well, all sides commit a lot of atrocities during the war. The question is what system of government and what society/culture is better. I believe the imperial way of life is better. Are the Northern kings better than Emhyr? No. If we compare only the rulers, Emhyr wins hands down. So for me it is kind of obvious who to support. As long as CDPR gives us an option to support Nilfgaard (as a meta-game, from player perspective), and one of the end states is when the Empire wins the war and keeps all territories between Yaruga and Pontar, I will be happy.

 

[Kodaemon5924]

Speaking of slave hunters - none of those in the north. You know why? Because the north doesn't have slavery. Nilfgaard does.

 

[DukeAlmighty]

That's why we love Witcher so much, because there is no black and white.
The quote from W2, flashback when you join Iorveth describes it best.
"Terrorists, murderers, death squad or freedom fighters in uneven battle, noble in their suffering - that all depends on point of view..."

 

[mai3r]

The only difference between Northern Kingdoms and Nilfgaard is that Nilfgaard actually knows what are they doing and why. Well, you can't say the same about Northern Kings...

 

[Lanaya]

Well, all sides commit a lot of atrocities during the war. The question is what system of government and what society/culture is better. I believe the imperial way of life is better. Are the Northern kings better than Emhyr? No. If we compare only the rulers, Emhyr wins hands down. So for me it is kind of obvious who to support. As long as CDPR gives us an option to support Nilfgaard (as a meta-game, from player perspective), and one of the end states is when the Empire wins the war and keeps all territories between Yaruga and Pontar, I will be happy.

I like you
friend request sent +1

Speaking of slave hunters - none of those in the north. You know why? Because the north doesn't have slavery. Nilfgaard does.

none of those in the north, you know why? because everyone is practically a slave. there may be no "official" slaves, but the way the north opperates, they all might as well be carried in chains.

That's why we love Witcher so much, because there is no black and white.
The quote from W2, flashback when you join Iorveth describes it best.
"Terrorists, murderers, death squad or freedom fighters in uneven battle, noble in their suffering - that all depends on point of view..."

true that sister.

The only difference between Northern Kingdoms and Nilfgaard is that Nilfgaard actually knows what are they doing and why. Well, you can't say the same about Northern Kings...

which is admirable. + for the Nilfgaard. Plough the north!

 

[Sam44]

none of those in the north, you know why? because everyone is practically a slave. there may be no "official" slaves, but the way the north opperates, they all might as well be carried in chains.

Yeah, Nilfgaard will surely try to free them for the third time by burning their villages and raping the women .

 

[ReptilePZ]

Just like I said in a similar thread (though with actual examples there - not here though as I'm in bit of a hurry) Nilfgaard isn't much different than the North. We're just seeing the war from the North's POV so we get to see all the propaganda and the trouble Nilfgaard is causing for them, which is why they seem like the 'good guys' when they're actually just as bad.

Wouldn't say Nilfgaard is necessarily any better than the Northern Kingdoms though. Pros and Cons on both sides, it's kind of a theme in The Witcher. It depends on your personal point of view, there's no clear answer. Do you think the evil done by the North is the greater evil or is it the one that Nilfgaard is committing?

"I'd rather not choose at all."

 

[sfinx]

Doing some more reading I came to the conclusion that no matter how bad these people are made out to be, they are saints compared to the northern kingdoms with their undeserving kings.

I have to put that in spoiler - it's too long and some important spoiles are contained in my post.

Spoiler

Which people you think? There is only one dictator..
Or if you think also Nilfgaardians with their ideas of higher nation and northern barbarians, nearly naked primitives with no hygienic habbits etc, I am not sure..

The emperor is truly deserving of his title. He is manipulative and strong willed. I like that. Specially when we discover some secrets about him, it should be our top tier alligance.

Strong will have sorceresses either and also others. His will is more like obsession. He nearly killed person, which saved his life, hunted his daughter like a dog. (I like her words from Something ends, something begins, she has some job in Nilfgaard.. )

If there were northeners they would rape her first, hang her, then rape her again then burn her corpse. It has been seen through out the entire series how the soldiers behave and there are several cases of rape even when dealing with other genders and races (yes, even dwarves).

And why do you think nilfgaardian soldiers are better? We don't have much informations about them. And as I saw, that wasn't normal hanging, that was brutal beating and probably only reason, why there wasn't any raping is that would be to hard and controversial for trailer. But remember what civilian people though about their raids during war.

Races? Again - we don't know much about Nilfgaard and how many non-humans live there. It could be something like perfect world of Aen Elle

But Im gonna let that one slide.

I don't want to be rude, but you are very naive, "one slide" is just one picture from whole movie called "war".

I say, give Emperor the world, he deserves to rule it, It might actually get some order. Less work for geralt.

Sorry, no way. One big state, under controll of one dictator? It will never work and many people will die for his dumb ideas of one big nation.
We already saw two wars, where that idiotic emperor didn't hasitate to bring whole world into war. Hundred-thousands of innocent people died, just because he wants to be the biggest..
Who else from the North burned whole countries? His acts (which he will try now in 3rd round) are the worst, what someone can do.
1) He started world war
2) He brought racist war on the North
3) He bought Squirrels to do wicked attacks
4) Than he betraied them
5) He wanted to kill Geralt and Yennefer (if there wasn't anything else, this is too much for me)

Who else are you going to support?

The incestuous Foltest? // too late but Foltest was way better than Emhyr - incest? That is worse for you than world war?? And you probably forgot something about incest and Emhyr.. I have to say - incest between brother/sister is much better than incest between father/daughter
The Rapist Henselt? // Never! You are right, "rapist" is just small part of his personality. He started new war, just because he wanted more (like emperor) - so he is on my Kill Bill (like emperor).
The Midget Self Pretentious Radovid? whom helped the Salamandra?? // Never! He is also on my blacklist, because he hurted sorceress

But you forgot Lodge (or capitole).. You can laught, but they have the best experience, how to rule the world. Because they already do that. Emperor, kings and others have just their goals and dreams, but no experience..
They don't see borders, they are interested in life of humanity, not Nilfgaardians, Kaedweni people or others.
You can say Emhyr has the same goal, but you cannot be sure. And the most important thing - how many deads contain their methods? Did they started three world wars? Did they burn whole countries? They also made big sacrifice on Sodden, but for the future, they get over that and they don't have any problem to sit at one table with their former enemies.

I can take that from Geralt's point of view:
He saved Emperor's life, helped to remove his curse, saved his daughter and cared about her and what? After all, Emhyr chosed death for him and his love. And he wanted to use Ciri in very bad way.

Lodge - they could kill him. They had reason for that - they had to know, he will stand between them and Ciri, but they didn't do that. Even if they could - Philippa could kill him twice, but she didn't, also Fringilla surely had chance to do that, when they wanted to stop him, but they didn't choose this. Philippa also gave him promise - she didn't have to do that, but she did and she hold that - who else behaved like that? If I take games - in my storyline, Philippa brought Geralt back from battlefield, Sheala warned him in Loc Muinne to give him possibility to save his life.

I hope, you will not be angry for this post, I respect your opinion, but I have totally different and I just wanted to bring some arguments for that

 

[Cs__sz__r]

"The incestuous Foltest?"

Spoiler

Ehmyr planned to have sex with his daughter, Ciri.

"The Rapist Henselt?"

Spoiler

He would have accomplished said statement above by basically raping her.

"The Midget Self Pretentious Radovid? whom helped the Salamandra??"

Spoiler

And Ehmyr colluded with the Scoietel, who are considered terrorists among humans. Also midget?

 

[ionmilescu]

All right Nilfgaard all the way!

 

[Sam44]

I have to put that in spoiler - it's too long and some important spoiles are contained in my post.

Spoiler

Which people you think? There is only one dictator..
Or if you think also Nilfgaardians with their ideas of higher nation and northern barbarians, nearly naked primitives with no hygienic habbits etc, I am not sure..

Strong will have sorceresses either and also others. His will is more like obsession. He nearly killed person, which saved his life, hunted his daughter like a dog. (I like her words from Something ends, something begins, she has some job in Nilfgaard.. /> )

And why do you think nilfgaardian soldiers are better? We don't have much informations about them. And as I saw, that wasn't normal hanging, that was brutal beating and probably only reason, why there wasn't any raping is that would be to hard and controversial for trailer. But remember what civilian people though about their raids during war.

Races? Again - we don't know much about Nilfgaard and how many non-humans live there. It could be something like perfect world of Aen Elle />

I don't want to be rude, but you are very naive, "one slide" is just one picture from whole movie called "war".

Sorry, no way. One big state, under controll of one dictator? It will never work and many people will die for his dumb ideas of one big nation.
We already saw two wars, where that idiotic emperor didn't hasitate to bring whole world into war. Hundred-thousands of innocent people died, just because he wants to be the biggest..
Who else from the North burned whole countries? His acts (which he will try now in 3rd round) are the worst, what someone can do.
1) He started world war
2) He brought racist war on the North
3) He bought Squirrels to do wicked attacks
4) Than he betraied them
5) He wanted to kill Geralt and Yennefer (if there wasn't anything else, this is too much for me)


But you forgot Lodge (or capitole).. You can laught, but they have the best experience, how to rule the world. Because they already do that. Emperor, kings and others have just their goals and dreams, but no experience..
They don't see borders, they are interested in life of humanity, not Nilfgaardians, Kaedweni people or others.
You can say Emhyr has the same goal, but you cannot be sure. And the most important thing - how many deads contain their methods? Did they started three world wars? Did they burn whole countries? They also made big sacrifice on Sodden, but for the future, they get over that and they don't have any problem to sit at one table with their former enemies.

I can take that from Geralt's point of view:
He saved Emperor's life, helped to remove his curse, saved his daughter and cared about her and what? After all, Emhyr chosed death for him and his love. And he wanted to use Ciri in very bad way.

Lodge - they could kill him. They had reason for that - they had to know, he will stand between them and Ciri, but they didn't do that. Even if they could - Philippa could kill him twice, but she didn't, also Fringilla surely had chance to do that, when they wanted to stop him, but they didn't choose this. Philippa also gave him promise - she didn't have to do that, but she did and she hold that - who else behaved like that? If I take games - in my storyline, Philippa brought Geralt back from battlefield, Sheala warned him in Loc Muinne to give him possibility to save his life.

I hope, you will not be angry for this post, I respect your opinion, but I have totally different and I just wanted to bring some arguments for that />

 

[Lanaya]

I have to put that in spoiler - it's too long and some important spoiles are contained in my post.

Spoiler

Which people you think? There is only one dictator..
Or if you think also Nilfgaardians with their ideas of higher nation and northern barbarians, nearly naked primitives with no hygienic habbits etc, I am not sure..

Strong will have sorceresses either and also others. His will is more like obsession. He nearly killed person, which saved his life, hunted his daughter like a dog. (I like her words from Something ends, something begins, she has some job in Nilfgaard.. /> )

And why do you think nilfgaardian soldiers are better? We don't have much informations about them. And as I saw, that wasn't normal hanging, that was brutal beating and probably only reason, why there wasn't any raping is that would be to hard and controversial for trailer. But remember what civilian people though about their raids during war.

Races? Again - we don't know much about Nilfgaard and how many non-humans live there. It could be something like perfect world of Aen Elle />

I don't want to be rude, but you are very naive, "one slide" is just one picture from whole movie called "war".

Sorry, no way. One big state, under controll of one dictator? It will never work and many people will die for his dumb ideas of one big nation.
We already saw two wars, where that idiotic emperor didn't hasitate to bring whole world into war. Hundred-thousands of innocent people died, just because he wants to be the biggest..
Who else from the North burned whole countries? His acts (which he will try now in 3rd round) are the worst, what someone can do.
1) He started world war
2) He brought racist war on the North
3) He bought Squirrels to do wicked attacks
4) Than he betraied them
5) He wanted to kill Geralt and Yennefer (if there wasn't anything else, this is too much for me)


But you forgot Lodge (or capitole).. You can laught, but they have the best experience, how to rule the world. Because they already do that. Emperor, kings and others have just their goals and dreams, but no experience..
They don't see borders, they are interested in life of humanity, not Nilfgaardians, Kaedweni people or others.
You can say Emhyr has the same goal, but you cannot be sure. And the most important thing - how many deads contain their methods? Did they started three world wars? Did they burn whole countries? They also made big sacrifice on Sodden, but for the future, they get over that and they don't have any problem to sit at one table with their former enemies.

I can take that from Geralt's point of view:
He saved Emperor's life, helped to remove his curse, saved his daughter and cared about her and what? After all, Emhyr chosed death for him and his love. And he wanted to use Ciri in very bad way.

Lodge - they could kill him. They had reason for that - they had to know, he will stand between them and Ciri, but they didn't do that. Even if they could - Philippa could kill him twice, but she didn't, also Fringilla surely had chance to do that, when they wanted to stop him, but they didn't choose this. Philippa also gave him promise - she didn't have to do that, but she did and she hold that - who else behaved like that? If I take games - in my storyline, Philippa brought Geralt back from battlefield, Sheala warned him in Loc Muinne to give him possibility to save his life.

I hope, you will not be angry for this post, I respect your opinion, but I have totally different and I just wanted to bring some arguments for that />

No no no!!! None of that crap of what COULD have happened. SHOW ME FACTS of WHAT DID happen. Every day we humans tempt and lust for eachother. some of us have thoughts darker than the void, and yet we do not ACT upon it. No, if anything! Emyr is a better person for restraining himself and not doing it WHILE HE COULD.

 

[StaGiors]

Well if I had to choose between leaders I think Esterad Thyssen would be the best.From the few scenes he had in the book he really seemed to me like he is a strong-willed and actually quite chivalrous ruler.Too bad he was killed.Still his wife is alive though.And while I wouldn't quite mind seeing Radovid's and Henselt's kingdoms defeated,I would be actually sad if Kovir falls to Nilfgaard too.I mean come on you gotta have some diversity