Nilfgaard is Actually Not that Bad

[wichat]

I have noting agaisnt nilfgaarians but against their Emperor. He is the first racist in this world, he hate any kind of mage or sorceress, he used and throw away elves for his own interest, not Nilfgaardian's interests, and confined the rest of them to a ghetto called Dol Bathanna. Nilfgaard for Emhyr is not a country to protect an save as their leader he is but use them as his weapon for his goal. He rules with hate, a hate born from his curse and which he never forget, his targets are personal and selfish. Nilfgaard has no need any expansion but Emhyr dream with the prophecy and use milions of nilfgaarians only to caught Ciri, so... A good Leader? First define leader then maybe I could understand your point of view.

 

[DukeAlmighty]

Well, all sides commit a lot of atrocities during the war. The question is what system of government and what society/culture is better. I believe the imperial way of life is better. Are the Northern kings better than Emhyr? No. If we compare only the rulers, Emhyr wins hands down. So for me it is kind of obvious who to support. As long as CDPR gives us an option to support Nilfgaard (as a meta-game, from player perspective), and one of the end states is when the Empire wins the war and keeps all territories between Yaruga and Pontar, I will be happy.

Nilfgard is the invader, and North is the victim who tries do defend themselves. The rest is relevant.
No offense, but are you Russian by any chance ?

 

[Lurtz_Of_Orthanc]

Holy crap. A Nilf thread not begun by Vivax. O_O

We should totally be able to side with Charles Dance though. He's got too much style to be an automatic Big Bad.

 

[skipy833]

Spoiler

in short story "Somethink more" (which is part of book "Sword of destiny") Dandelion describes actions of Nilfgaard as "total annihilation war" and says that wars between northerns were never so brutal.
In the same short story is also said that nilfgaardians slaughtered entire population of thecity of Cintra.
In the "Time of contempt" is also described that Nilfgaard killed everyone in the city of Vengerberg (6000 people).
Cruelty of nilfgaardians towards civilians is described in the "Baptism by fire".

 

[Lanaya]

I have noting agaisnt nilfgaarians but against their Emperor. He is the first racist in this world, he hate any kind of mage or sorceress, he used and throw away elves for his own interest, not Nilfgaardian's interests, and confined the rest of them to a ghetto called Dol Bathanna. Nilfgaard for Emhyr is not a country to protect an save as their leader he is but use them as his weapon for his goal. He rules with hate, a hate born from his curse and which he never forget, his targets are personal and selfish. Nilfgaard has no need any expansion but Emhyr dream with the prophecy and use milions of nilfgaarians only to caught Ciri, so... A good Leader? First define leader then maybe I could understand your point of view.

Ha! finally, I was waiting patiently like a tiger, and I am twice as prepared my dear friend.

Mages and Sorceres are right to be hated, honestly all that power is misused for personal gain. Sex with illutions, and spells of mass destruction instead of solving cure to diseases and making this world a beautiful and better place. The mages in the Witcher world are right to be hated! so no blaming the Emyr on this.

The elves . . . I asked a question not long ago about the elves of this world and the other, I cant recall the details of this topic, but I remember your response was short and very clear. You said "... because elves are savage by nature" so . . . I dont blame the dude.

Tell me how did the Scoiatele made life better for the elves? how did the lodge of sorceresses help man kind in ANY way?

The rest of your post is pure conspiracy! and HOGWASH!!!! (as Zoltan used to say ) How can you know what the Emyr feels?? yeah he was cursed, but what can I man do?
and he just wanted to find his daughter. maybe it was out of secret love. he was proud to see her become so strong and was testing her by putting the ultimate obstacle in front of her. himself. that is fatherly love man!! self sacrifice!
and rumors of marrying her are all lies!! pics or it didnt happen! no really, if he had married her, raped her and given birth to a child then we talk, Foltest was faced with the same scenario and he did not hesistate jumping in between the legs of his sister. if Emyr was truly the hateful man you make him out to be, he would not have hesistated to rape his own daughter and marry her. He certainly had the power to do so.

Again, back to the main point. I am not saying he is a saint. Just saying he is faar better than Foltest, Radovid, Henselt, etc . . . every king does everything for personal gain at this point. Emyr does it right, and without endangering his soldiers. He could have just marched his entire fleet and attacked the north, he weakened it by political manipulation (that is an intelligent move we see even carried out today - actually it is being carried out right now if you watch the news) then attacked and conquered in one fell swoop with very to little injuries at best.

Emyr may be a self interested pig. But its a pig that knows in order to succeed and not become bacon you must also keep the people happy. he rules with an iron fist, but every once in a while makes a gesture that makes people love him.

 

[sfinx]

No no no!!! None of that crap of what COULD have happened. SHOW ME FACTS of WHAT DID happen. Every day we humans tempt and lust for eachother. some of us have thoughts darker than the void, and yet we do not ACT upon it. No, if anything! Emyr is a better person for restraining himself and not doing it WHILE HE COULD.

Please, firstly you should calm down a little bit. Secondly - you should quote what "could not have happened" and what facts are you missing?

Facts - ok...
Many and many dead civilians during Emhyr's raids in many countries.
Burning vilaages and whole countries, murders, stealing, ruining economy.

you said, you read books, so I will remind you few parts..

“This war is different,” the bard explained seriously. “The
Nilfgaardian army leave nothing behind but scorched earth and
dead corpses. Entire fields of corpses. It's a war of annihilation,
of complete destruction. Nilfgaard against everything. The
cruelty...”
...
The roads are strewn, for miles, with gallows and pyres
...
The Verden Operations Group committed unheard of atrocities against civilians.

and many others

You wanted to hear, what happened - so this happened "unheard of atrocities against civilians" from nilfgaardian army. I don't care if that came from order or like side-effect from Emhyr needs to be world Messiah, but this happened and I don't think you will find worse crime ever happened.

What he could and waht he did: He ordered to execute (no matter which way of this he offered to them) Geralt and Yennefer, just because they knew too much. That is true. I don't care if crying of little girl woke up some conscience inside him, that doesn't change anything on that.
He also stared three world wars - just this short sentence is too much and clear judgement for him. I don't care if he wanted to bath the world in blood and fire and after that he wanted to take care about it, but he is criminal.

 

[CostinRaz]

Everything Dandelion says should be taken with a large grain of salt since he does have a large tendency to exaggerate.

As for the Verden Operations Group weren't those Scoia'Tael?

 

[Lanaya]

Please, firstly you should calm down a little bit. Secondly - you should quote what "could not have happened" and what facts are you missing?

Facts - ok...
Many and many dead civilians during Emhyr's raids in many countries.
Burning vilaages and whole countries, murders, stealing, ruining economy.

you said, you read books, so I will reming you few parts..
You wanted to hear, what happened - so this happened "unheard of atrocities against civilians" from nilfgaardian army. I don't care if that came from order or like side-effect from Emhyr needs to be world Messiah, but this happened and I don't think you will find worse crime ever happened.

What he could and waht he did: He ordered to execute (no matter which way of this he offered to them) Geralt and Yennefer, just because they knew too much. That is true. I don't care if crying of little girl woke up some conscience inside him, that doesn't change anything on that.
He also stared three world wars - just this short sentence is too much and clear judgement for him. I don't care if he wanted to bath the world in blood and fire and after that he wanted to take care about it, but he is criminal.

I dont blame you for thinking such way. but its war. Shit happens. I hate mixing world together but same thing is happening now. We have our so called Nilfgaard wannabe that was involved in all the wars and is starting the next world war. But people still love them and would die to be in their land, oppressing or not.

When its time of war, the rules change. But I dont want to be an asshole and ignore what he did. Yes, he is a criminal. Yes, he killed millions. I agree, I never said otherwise. I just said he is better than the North. If I could I would take the middle road, not choosing north or south, my own way, geralts way. But if the game is gonna force a choice on me like Roche and Iorvete then I have to go with Emyr. He handles his shit better. He kills but not for joy, for victory.

Im sorry but didnt foltest do THE SAME thing? henselt just comitted the same SHIT!!! in witcher 2. Murdered innocent woman and children, raped them too while he was at it. THey are all trash and that is my point. my point is that if they are all trash, Emyr is on top of the pile, and not at the dirty bottom. get what I mean?

All criminals, some less than the others. k??

Everything Dandelion says should be taken with a large grain of salt since he does have a large tendency to exaggerate.

As for the Verden Operations Group weren't those Scoia'Tael?

I always admire your posts, +1 thank you good point. great point. my knowledge is not complete, I can be BSed if the person writes as if he is the author of teh books. thanks for the save

 

[wichat]

Ha! finally, I was waiting /> patiently like a tiger, and I am twice as prepared my dear friend.

This sentence sounds a little childish />

Seriously,

As all in the Witcher world it's doesn't matter what all those people done but how Emhyr react to its concequences: he is a leader who must protect and save his citizents and the only way he do it is using them for a personal crusade. Emhyr's behaviour is the matter. He doens't consider the people from conquered lands by him like equals (ask to Cahir's family, e.g.), so he is a racist. Convincing the people to conquer another neighboring village with the idea that they are superior is racism, Convincing the people to conquer another neighboring village with the idea that they are superior hiding his real purposed is treason (remember, Emhyr's is the leader of those men and women, not their owner). No matter how big or great can be this country, Nilfgaard no need any expansion, but Emhyr lead them to 3 consecutives and horribles wars, for what? A prophecy feed with hate and with the remaining deep inside him of the beast he were (or maybe always be).. That's to me is not a leader: he is a torturer. Like those psychopaths who have lived next to one for 20 years being the perfect neighbor, intelligent, funny, ecuanime .... while he was burying children in his garden .... But for Emhyr, the only, the unique point of humanity reference is the presence of Geralt and this is the only explanation why a litttle few of acts of him seems humans.


Sadly, a lot of follower of Geralt saga who read the books forget one detail that Spakowski don't do: Emperor Emhyr is the result of the curse an he atcs under the impact of the trauma.

In the saem line, a lot of gamers, no matter if they have read the books or not, forget that Geralt is a mutant. Both are basic treats of their personalities. They are not normal humans.

 

[Sam44]

I dont blame you for thinking such way. but its war. Shit happens. I hate mixing world together but same thing is happening now. We have our so called Nilfgaard wannabe that was involved in all the wars and is starting the next world war. But people still love them and would die to be in their land, oppressing or not.

When its time of war, the rules change. But I dont want to be an asshole and ignore what he did. Yes, he is a criminal. Yes, he killed millions. I agree, I never said otherwise. I just said he is better than the North. If I could I would take the middle road, not choosing north or south, my own way, geralts way. But if the game is gonna force a choice on me like Roche and Iorvete then I have to go with Emyr. He handles his shit better. He kills but not for joy, for victory.

Im sorry but didnt foltest do THE SAME thing? henselt just comitted the same SHIT!!! in witcher 2. Murdered innocent woman and children, raped them too while he was at it. THey are all trash and that is my point. my point is that if they are all trash, Emyr is on top of the pile, and not at the dirty bottom. get what I mean?

All criminals, some less than the others. k??



I always admire your posts, +1 thank you /> good point. great point. my knowledge is not complete, I can be BSed if the person writes as if he is the author of teh books. thanks for the save />

Whether the devs will add an option to join Nilfgaard is questionable, but there is no way that Geralt from the books would help Emhyr with his conquest.

 

[sfinx]

You just wrote "hate mages", but you didn't bring any solid arguments..

Did they started wars? - I don't think so - they finished them. Both peace contracts and chance to live normally again (ruined again by Emhyr) was their work. They also manage defence against attacker in both wars, so yes, they care about humans and also about themselves - is that wrong?

Cospiracy? Are you kidding me? You blame them for conspiracy in witcher world? That is really funny.. You can count on fingers persons, who wasn't in something like that. Their conspiracy also managed to defeat Nilfgaardians for the second time. So conspiracy? Yes - because without them, there wouldn't be any North.

Spell for destruction and not for healing? Again - verry funny. Why you don't blame men in army for bringing death instead of helping to civilian people?
But there is one difference - they don't act like army, they don't use force again civilian people in the way and amount like armies.

how did the lodge of sorceresses help man kind in ANY way?

As I said, they help to deafend the North and stability of world two times. They calmed down that agressive idiots on meeting in Cintra, so they gave chance to bring peace..
Their plan was to hold world in stabile curse.

You probably expect, mages should be some holly persons - with no personal interest, which will travell across the world and heal and protect peoples. Strange .. all other sides brought death, misery and suffering - much worse things than little bit of selfish care about interest of mages (but that was just part of their goals) - and you don't have any problem with that, but mages should be judged some other way??

 

[sfinx]

Everything Dandelion says should be taken with a large grain of salt since he does have a large tendency to exaggerate.

I agree with that, but this time it doesn't change anything, now that was truth - like that example from Verden (that is not from Dandelion). And burned countries and murdered civilians is not his fiction.

As for the Verden Operations Group weren't those Scoia'Tael?

I don't think so, you probably mean Vrihedd

 

[wichat]

Everything Dandelion says should be taken with a large grain of salt since he does have a large tendency to exaggerate.

No, Geralt see it in his journey to find Ciri. It's quite described in detail in books. Horror is really shocking.

 

[Kodaemon5924]

Yup, it's the very basis of the nilfgaardian method of conquest: the conquered get either slaughtered or sent deep into the empire as slaves, while Nilfgaard brings in settlers to take their place.

 

[sfinx]

but its war. Shit happens.
...
When its time of war, the rules change. But I dont want to be an asshole and ignore what he did. Yes, he is a criminal. Yes, he killed millions.

I hope your rules are equal for everyone - mages included. But I have no illusions ... simply - millions killed on the way to rule world is "shit happened" and few killed on the same way of mages (even when it wasn't their goal, but let's say that was) is reason to be hated ..

I respect your opinion, but You cannot be judge..

He kills but not for joy, for victory.

North : Nilfgaard -- 2 : 0
I know, what do you mean, but when it was last time, when sorceresses killed someone for joy?
And I don't even bring counts of dead bodies and that little problem if that was interested persons or simple civilians.

 

[Lanaya]

Ha! finally, I was waiting />/> patiently like a tiger, and I am twice as prepared my dear friend.

This sentence sounds a little childish />/>

Seriously,

As all in the Witcher world it's doesn't matter what all those people done but how Emhyr react to its concequences: he is a leader who must protect and save his citizents and the only way he do it is using them for a personal crusade. Emhyr's behaviour is the matter. He doens't consider the people from conquered lands by him like equals (ask to Cahir's family, e.g.), so he is a racist. Convincing the people to conquer another neighboring village with the idea that they are superior is racism, Convincing the people to conquer another neighboring village with the idea that they are superior hiding his real purposed is treason (remember, Emhyr's is the leader of those men and women, not their owner). No matter how big or great can be this country, Nilfgaard no need any expansion, but Emhyr lead them to 3 consecutives and horribles wars, for what? A prophecy feed with hate and with the remaining deep inside him of the beast he were (or maybe always be).. That's to me is not a leader: he is a torturer. Like those psychopaths who have lived next to one for 20 years being the perfect neighbor, intelligent, funny, ecuanime .... while he was burying children in his garden .... But for Emhyr, the only, the unique point of humanity reference is the presence of Geralt and this is the only explanation why a litttle few of acts of kim seems humans.


Sadly, a lot of folloer os Geralt saga who read the books forget one detali that Spakowski don't do: Emperor Emhyr is the result of the curse an he atcs under the impact of the trauma.

In the saem line, a lot of gamers, no matter if they have read thebooks or not, forget that Geralt is a mutant. Both are basic treats of their personalities. They are not normal humans.

the tiger part was a joke from when we met =/ i guess you forgot

But I said, I do agree that Emyr is all that and maybe worse. But comparatively he is better than the other kings. That is my only point. The title is said they are not "that bad" they still bad, just not as much and foltest, radovid, henselt, etc . . .

Whether the devs will add an option to join Nilfgaard is questionable, but there is no way that Geralt from the books would help Emhyr with his conquest.

They probably will, this game is famous for the power of choice. that is what 90% of the 6 million people playing the game want to see, the freedom of choice and the consequence of said choice. so i highly anticipate that a nilfguard choice will be available.

You just wrote "hate mages", but you didn't bring any solid arguments..

Did they started wars? - I don't think so - they finished them. Both peace contract and chance to live normally again (ruined again by Emhyr) was their work. They also manage defence against attacker in both wars, so yes, they care about humans and also about themselves - is that wrong?

Cospiracy? Are you kidding me? You blame them for conspiracy in witcher world? That is really funny.. You can count on fingers persons, who wasn't in something like that. Their conspiracy also managed to defeat Nilfgaardians for the second time. So conspiracy? Yes - because without them, there wouldn't be any North.

Spell for destruction and not for healing? Again - verry funny. Why you don't blame men in army for bringing death instead of helping to civilian people?
But there is one difference - they don't act like army, they don't use force again civilian people in the way and amount like armies.

As I said, they help to deafend the North and stability of world two times. They calmed down that agressive idiots on meeting in Cintra, so they gave chance to bring peace..
Their plan was to hold world in stabile curse.

You probably expect, mages should be some holly persons - with no personal interest, which will travell across the world and heal and protect peoples. Strange .. all other sides brought death, misery and suffering - much worse things than little bit of selfish care about interest of mages (but that was just part of their goals) - and you don't have any problem with that, but mages should be judged some other way??

My dear friend, calm down. No need to get angry. You are clearly biased towards mages. same as the people that are for the gun act. Mages are a solution to a problem they caused. we dont have mages in the real world, tell me how would the Witchers world mages could have changed our history? would they be used for anyting other than producing weapons of mass destruction? they do more harm than good. they save who they want to save, and kill when it suits them. the lodge proved just that. why didn the lodge use a pacify spell in henselts war? why use a spell that devastated the earth so hard that a curse appeared just in its wake? Mages and sorceresses are FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR worse than Emyr, this is a fact. They have power and misuse it badly. I dont expect them to heal the world, but they should also stop contrinuting to it as well.

Mages in battles are like guns vs guns. its the same deal, the north would have been there without them, if not better. their existance caused disturbances in the battlefield ask anyone, they will tell you.

i can tell your a mage lover, me too, they are cool and would love to see more of them, but we should not be blinded by our passion towards someone. Emyr is a criminal, I know. Im just comparing them to the others, heck, he even may not be my favorite, I like mages more and would like to see them succeed but that does not hide the fact of what they are doing.

Yup, it's the very basis of the nilfgaardian method of conquest: the conquered get either slaughtered or sent deep into the empire as slaves, while Nilfgaard brings in settlers to take their place.

I dont get it, the same thing was done quite in recent history and no one bats an eye. Emyr does it and everybody looses their minds.

 

[wichat]

the tiger part was a joke from when we met =/ i guess you forgot />

But I said, I do agree that Emyr is all that and maybe worse. But comparatively he is better than the other kings. That is my only point. The title is said they are not "that bad" they still bad, just not as much and foltest, radovid, henselt, etc . . .

Foltest (despite all his crimes) is the only King I read worrying for his citizens and innocents. The Lodge is the only Institution I read they worry for Human and Non-Human Kind. Emhyr's doesn't care at all about that. So, no, to me, comparatively he is NOT better than the other kings.

 

[secondchildren]

No matter how much you feel or you are addicted to a subject (or to a fictional empire), calm down, stay polite and express your opinion with clearness and calmness. Topic will be immediate lock and people involved will get a ticket to relaxation resort if necessary.

Also....
what's the point of upvoting your own posts guys?

 

[wichat]

Also....
what's the point of upvoting your own posts guys? />/>/>

Do they?

I love these mods of us, really />/>/>

 

[AltheAxe]

North v South, pick the lesser evil, (sounds familiar). There is the option not to support either. Lets not forget Saskia also, perhaps a little too idealised to survive but do you choose who has the biggest badest army or the people who extol the ideals of humanity.