Nilfgaard Reveal - What do you think?

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I already said this but I guess I will repeat it here.

I think reveal shouldn't exist at all. It is either going to be gimmick deck or OP so It is impossible to balance it out and as such has no room in game.
Look at it this way if two players with equal skill and comparable deck power then guy playing reveal is going to win 90% of the time because.
As more and more cards get added to game reveal is going to get more and more strength.

 
I am really trying to make it work, but i am not amused.

I play it with Mangonels and if these Mangonels remain unlocked or are not removed i win the first round easily.

But the problem is you have to win 2 rounds and i find my deck inconsistent. If I have a good draw in 3rd round I win, but if I do not draw good cards I lose by a big margin.

I need to experiment more, but I do not think it will be ever as good as my spy deck
 
I played reveal up until 2 days ago. Decided to try something new.

The problem with reveal is that it's incredibly predictable. Everyone knows you're running spotters so they rocus on card advantage and keeping debuffing cards in hand. It's still fun to play but any player that knows the game will see your moves a mile away.

Just give it a try. It's fun to play but predictable.

EDIT:

Mangonels are the worst reveal archetype you can play. You need to play them right away, making them easy targets for removal or locks. You can't keep them in hand like spotters.

EDIT 2:

Reveal is less about knowing your opponent's hand and more about buffing your win condition, the spotters. You don't need reveal to know which cards your opponents run. You can make a pretty good guess 2 minutes into any game.
 
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Yes, probably I will abandon Mangonels. Giving them a bit of armor might make them a little better but i agree, they are not that good.
A big problem I have with this deck is its win condition. I do not like the spotters. It feels cheap winning with them, plus your 3rd round is very predictable and boring. Play this card and hope for the best.
And people always expect them and have a counter in hand.
 
Mangonels work fine as long as you do not build the whole round 1 strategy around them.

You might put 2 Mangonels and 2 Scorpions, to diversify.

As long as your Round 1 strategy does not entirely rely upon Mangonels, and having 1 on board (without the aim to have 2 active) is just a bonus, they work well imo.
 
Mangonels are extremely situational. As soon as you put one down, the opponent will try to remove/lock it. If they can't, you're good. But you're only good for one round. They waste space you can use for scorpions, alchemists or even daerlan soldiers for thining.

Spotters are boring to play. Buff them and hope for the best. But they're the only reveal archetype that can go against the meta where everything is about buffing stuff, since weather was nerfed.
 
One thing that triggers me about mangonels is that they trigger when opponent reveals cards too. That way, if your opponent have a magonel on a mirror match, its gets pretty much impossible to win the round since they will hit your stuff when you reveal too.

I think reveal is a good deck, but as people already pointed out, it has a lot of issues still. Probably a t2 build.
 
Because you can see the opponents cards? But you already know most of his cards, depending on the faction. There are several archetypes and you know what the opponent's gonna play 2 minutes into a match.

I wouldn't mind a rework if it makes it better/more fun to play. But things are probably staying like this for now.
 
Snake_Foxhounder;n9105950 said:
Because you can see the opponents cards? But you already know most of his cards, depending on the faction. There are several archetypes and you know what the opponent's gonna play 2 minutes into a match.

I wouldn't mind a rework if it makes it better/more fun to play. But things are probably staying like this for now.

Yes because you shouldn't know what is my hand its weird and out of place. I wouldn't mind seeing one card but revealing my whole hand is ridiculous.
My opponent can calculate all my moves and abuse it while I'm left with trying to get best use of my cards and just hope for the best.
It is not really interesting gameplay if you ask me.

You get to see my cards and in process you play unit and draw anther card and if you have mangonel you get to him my units as well. This is too much...
 
Both mangonels and foot soldiers are really really bad late game draws. They do make up for it by boosting your R1 tempo by a great deal and in the case of the foot soldiers thinning you deck.

The difference between the two is that foot soldiers isn't vulnerable at all, you just play reveal them and they've done their job while putting strength on the table. The mangonels on the other hand, are highly vulnerable to removable/locks. It can be fine to run them, provided you don't base you game too much around them, and you manage to use them to bait removal away from your guardian or spotters. But I honestly don't feel they're worth the risk of a late draw, because of how vulnerable they are.
 
lomvicmarko;n9106090 said:
Yes because you shouldn't know what is my hand its weird and out of place. I wouldn't mind seeing one card but revealing my whole hand is ridiculous.
My opponent can calculate all my moves and abuse it while I'm left with trying to get best use of my cards and just hope for the best.
It is not really interesting gameplay if you ask me.

You get to see my cards and in process you play unit and draw anther card and if you have mangonel you get to him my units as well. This is too much...

That's the thing. I can already make a pretty good guess about what's in your hand, depending on your leader and the first few cards you play. Each archetype has specific cards that synergise well with it and you can already guess what the opponent will play, revealed cards or not. You can carry some "strange" cards but a decent player will keep most things in mind, even lesser played cards like Bekker's mirror.

I think this is just a psychological issue on your part. The opponet being able to see your hand makes you feel "naked" but it's not tha different. Qute honestly, I use that against the opponent. Use revealed cards to draw him into playing something, then use a card he didn't know about.
 
Agreeing with people here: Reveal sucks.

It's only good in round 1 when there's lots of cards to reveal. Round 2 it's weakened by all the cards played in round 1. Round 3 it's useless as nobody has cards.

Everyone knows what you're playing and will counter it. Hard. It's so gimmicky. It also is scorch/igni bait.

It's also super unreliable. Every card activated by reveal requires an outside card to work. ALL OF THEM. No revealing cards in hand? You're basically dead in the water. Mulligan is superior as that doesn't need outside cards to thin the deck and do effects most of the time. There's even leaders who mulligan! Also Nilfgard has weak card search anyway so good luck finding your reveal cards.

More on how weak and unreliable Nilfgard's search mechanics are in the Calveit Nerf thread:
https://forums.cdprojektred.com/for...270-john-calveit-cahir-nerf-is-terrible/page4
 
Forgot to add something, though I already mentioned it before. Most reveal players don't really care about seeing the enemy hand. The meta is predictable so there's no need for that. The main goal of reveal is buffing spotters by revealing cards, even if you use cards that reveal your own.
 
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There is huge difference between guessing and knowing(dell duh). Because I can exploit your guess and bluff you into passing because even if I play certain archetype or whatever you don't know how good was my draw. I can literally play standard few cards like lets say current dorf opening and transition into full on removal. If you get to see scorch in my hand or something that is critical for my success and you not knowing about it key for it work. You might guess but if you see it there is no way you are going to risk getting spotter out for example.

Maybe right now reveal is not as bad as I make it to be but in future it can be serious issue if reveal as archetype gets a lot more tools and what not and as it seems that is bound to happen. Can you say that my fear is not justified ?
 
lomvicmarko;n9106440 said:
Can you say that my fear is not justified ?

Knowledge is power. However, an impending doom cannot always be averted. If you see that meteor rushing towards earth, you know you are screwed anyhow. So, the question becomes, how often can you change the course of the battle by playing cards in a different order with the insight you've gained from Reveal. I actually don't think Reveal can change much in most cases. For example, saving your spotters, knowing that the opponent has Igni, can be a life saver. But if you have no other cards left, then you have to play it regardless. Like many mechanics, Reveal is situational and like may mechanics, Reveal can potentially turn the tide of battle, but not in any way that makes it too strong.
 
Yes, you can typically know the goal of an opponent deck, and by extension what cards they may have or play to reach that goal, after seeing the leader or first few card plays. On the flipside, there is a difference between making an educated guess about which cards your opponent might have or play, and knowing it with certainty. Just like there is a difference between what they have in hand vs the cards still in their deck. Revealing in hand cards provides information you may not have otherwise. So in that sense it is an advantage. Pretending more information or confirmation of your suspicions isn't helpful is asinine.

Having said all of that, I don't think revealing opponent cards is a magic I win button. Even with your cards in plain sight you still have a good chance to win with a reasonable deck if you play them well. Besides, it isn't like reveal decks pull off or do anything more or less ridiculous compared to other decks at the moment. Pretty much every deck seems to rely on doing something retarded to win the game, whether it be 84 pts of resilient carry-over, getting 35 points off your GY or spamming strengthening effects.
 
Yup, Mangonels are too unreliable. But Reveal seems better off without these cards anyways since NG has enough useful bronze cards.

I think it's an interesting deck. But I agree that in a lot of matches revealing cards doesn't give you any new insight. Especially against stuff like Spelldorfs. Besides often playing Regis is enough to get a good idea of the opponents deck. Still atm I find Reveal NG more enjoyable than Spy NG.
 
I played a good amount of ranked tonight (for me) and reveal was something I was glad to see because I had an easier time beating it over any other deck. I don't think I lost to it once. Monsters and Dwarves were a tougher battle for my deck.
 
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