Nilfgaard Reveal - What do you think?

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I always have fun playing against reveal decks. Seems pretty balanced but a little predictable. I mean, you know the spotters are coming late round 3 but sometimes you may not have the tools to deal with them.

Or, they know all your cards but there is nothing they can do about it.

I like how NG has some cool stuff to deal with Succubus like Vilg and even Peter to hurt their own guy. That was done against me today.
 
Bottom line is, revealed cards or not, you always assume an opponent has igni or any of the debffing cards. Revealing cards isn't that big of an advantage as you play around removal/debuffs all the time, even when not playing reveal. It's mostly a psychological issue.

 
Snake_Foxhounder;n9105440 said:
Oh yeah, good luck in a mirror match. It would be fun to watch if it wasn't sad seeing your units get beaten up.

Played one of them : we both had mangonels - I had 2 mangonels and they had 1, they played the leader card and I whacked most of their side. That probably needs looking at!

As others have said, first round is mangonels and last round is spotters vs debuffs. Kinda predictable -- Dimeritium bombs and spores are essential these days so everyone has them.

It's similar to SK discard deck with Bran, there's a similar pattern of play again with those pirates working (and being countered) the same as the spotters and the scoia ones...
 
Snake_Foxhounder;n9105950 said:
Because you can see the opponents cards? But you already know most of his cards, depending on the faction. There are several archetypes and you know what the opponent's gonna play 2 minutes into a match.

I wouldn't mind a rework if it makes it better/more fun to play. But things are probably staying like this for now.

I agree with your statement now, but will that still be the case when there are say 10 times as many cards per faction with 5 or 6 different decks on each faction? I do not really mind reveal now, but in the future I think its game breaking as you will be able to tell which deck of the several viable ones on a certain faction. Right now now of those (when you have more than one variation) make a change in how you would play against it, but hope that changes as the game needs more "What does my oppenent have in there" feel and strategy to it. If the game gets it reveal becomes a horrible mechanic.
 
Having now built a reveal deck and played it some, its actually a fairly good deck and its not to powerful, you just have to counter it. Right now I do not see a big problem with reveal as a mechanic, but as stated in my reply I see it as a game breaking mechanic as the game develops. I mean we get a bunch more cards (this is how they make money) and 2-6 viable deck types per faction and the power of revealing cards becomes very big, and very broken.

I personally still see it as a game breaker as it stands. If it reveled a card, and then it went back to unrevealed immediately that would be less broken in the long run. Time will tell and we will see what happens. I think the changes moved the deck up, but not so much as to make it a broken or OP deck. It is a kinda fun deck, but not really my cup of tea. I do think the long term effects of the reveal mechanic will be negative to the overall game due to exposure of deck strategy before the player would have exposed which of several available he/she is using. That is if we ever get multiple viable strategies that you would defend against differently from the same faction. I personally hope for that in the future.
 
Reveal is a tier 2 deck that got hyped for the wrong reasons. I believe the more we go deeper in exploring this patch , the less we will be seeing reveal decks in rank.

It is true that revealing cards is OP but in order for the spotter to get max value, you will need to reveal ur own cards too. Plus The reveal archetype is so predictable and systematic that most of the times the revealed cards wont make a difference in strategy and order of play.
 
I would think that too xenok but the dev's are so against cards that can have a surprise impact that they seem to be nerfing them to the ground, because the surprise impacts were things like weather and villen, stamelford's tremor and kambi. Probably only weather was OP but they went and nerfed the rest of them their reasoning being like "we don't want you to get penalised for committing deep into a round" which to me felt like a judgement call, but it definitely gives insight into what cards they will add to the game or not. I would bet money on it that they'll never offer like a hard board wipe mechanism of the likes of what you see in MTG and hearthstone and lots of other games. I think scorch and bekkers twisted mirror is about the best hard control card we will ever see. Things like igni and stuff potentially also useful to reveal though most players will play around it already and the reveal archetype hasn't very many reasons for row stacking anyway. You still won't really be able to see if they have combos in hand because you never tend to reveal the whole hand. I seem to recall a card in duel of champions that made them reveal then discard or what not but once again if people think this level of reveal is insanely broken then that'll never be something you see. Maybe a card that is like "reveal all special cards" or something like that might be pretty cool, more specific revealing instead of the random level you get from it currently.
 
Played my spy deck against a reveal opponent. Went into round 3 a card down and still won. He saw every card I had and it didn't help him. Why? Because I played around igni or debuffs, which I assumed he had. And he did. I knew he had spotters, so I saved a debuff, which he knew I had. He tried saving them for last but it wasn't enough to keep up with my tempo.

Basically, your cards being revealed doesn't mean much if you understand the meta. You know which units a reveal deck has and you can easily play around them, saving debuffs for spotters. The opponent seeing your cards won't help him if he can't keep up.

I believe reveal deck are a bit of a gimmick. Having played it I can safely say I didn't really care about seeing the opponent's cards, as I pretty much assumed what he had and in most cases I was correct. The only purpose to revealing cards is buffing those spotter, which you save for round 3. And then, if you have card advantage, play one last. 90% of the time my opponents knew what I had and what to expect, so they saved counter cards in their hands. It's basically a coin flip on wheter or not you have card advantage in last round.
 
Thought about making a long winded post, using math and a pin-point but, I decided to summarize.

Reveal deck is like taking a 15 minute shit - naked- while the neighborhood watches.
 
It's an elegant but flawed deck, very fun to play.

Having said that, I have noticed that revealing cards is not that great of a thing actually.

I have won so many matches with a fully exposed deck and i always say to myself "how did this punk lose when he can see all my godaman cards?"

It's simple, he knows what cards i have and has an idea of when i'm going to play them, but he sorted his deck when all cards were face down, cards usually prepared for the generic reveal playstyle, therefore when my deck is revealed he will simply not have the counters needed for my cards.

Plus the archetype is too obvious and easily countered. Especially to a guy with a knapsack of shackles and lock cards.

Sometimes all revealing does is confirm that your opponent has better cards and you are defo going to lose, then the whole gimmick backfires, imo.
 
I think they could have that W3 mechanic on Nilfgaard faction where Emyr could see only 3 cards just one time ..... so, the reveal mechanics could still be useful without being abused .... anyway, yep, seems something situational : sometimes, even if the adversary has access to see your entire deck hand, you still have cards combination that will win the match, no matter what the Nilfgaard player can possible do .... when this happens, it's fun as hell just to imagine the deception feeling coming around to the Nilfgaard player , hehe
 
I like it, it keeps losing to my Monster Consumer which I argue is the best archetype in the game right now. I went from locked at 2200 last patch to 2780 right now in like four days of solid play. As for the deck its pretty obvious the moment the leader comes out what is going to happen, furthermore its very much reliant on the starting hand. If you have too many of the muligan cards and direct draw cards in your hand you're pretty much screwed especially to the other common decks in the meta right now like the buff dwarves and of course Monster Consume.
 
Being a Nilfgaard player I used to play the spy archetype but since the last nerfs it's getting more difficult to win with spies, so I tried the reveal archetype.

As a result I'm winning more games bur having less fun, please give me back my spy deck and stop nerfing John Calveit's troops.
 
HTMekkatorque;n9114860 said:
I would think that too xenok but the dev's are so against cards that can have a surprise impact that they seem to be nerfing them to the ground, because the surprise impacts were things like weather and villen, stamelford's tremor and kambi. Probably only weather was OP but they went and nerfed the rest of them their reasoning being like "we don't want you to get penalised for committing deep into a round" which to me felt like a judgement call, but it definitely gives insight into what cards they will add to the game or not. I would bet money on it that they'll never offer like a hard board wipe mechanism of the likes of what you see in MTG and hearthstone and lots of other games. I think scorch and bekkers twisted mirror is about the best hard control card we will ever see. Things like igni and stuff potentially also useful to reveal though most players will play around it already and the reveal archetype hasn't very many reasons for row stacking anyway. You still won't really be able to see if they have combos in hand because you never tend to reveal the whole hand. I seem to recall a card in duel of champions that made them reveal then discard or what not but once again if people think this level of reveal is insanely broken then that'll never be something you see. Maybe a card that is like "reveal all special cards" or something like that might be pretty cool, more specific revealing instead of the random level you get from it currently.

I can see your point, however if you are right and we never get cards that can really change the game from a simple unit buff debuff game, it will get old fast and die.
 
El_Mosca;n9117050 said:
As a result I'm winning more games bur having less fun, please give me back my spy deck and stop nerfing John Calveit's troops.
Funny with my deck I'm doing fine with reveal but am having less fun, I actually prefer the spies even though I'm worse. I've found the reveal deck to be so slow, its the worst when all your cards are revealed as the opponent but you CLEARLY have a better hand and he drags it out for eternity because they're either trying desperately to find a win (Admirable) or are a sore loser (less so).
 
Morvran Voorhis' ability ruins the game

Morvran Voorhis' ability to disclose cards ruins the game. It's OP and takes the fun out of the game. This is the first card game I've ever seen where cards have the ability to disclose other cards, which can be acceptable, especially since you introduced other NG cards that push the player to show his own cards, but Morvran Voorhis' ability to disclose 3 cards is way OP.

It's the only card in the game that allows to put down 24 points in 1 turn, and if paired with Cahir gives you the chance to disclose all the cards in the opponent's hand, which goes against the basic principle of card games in general (that you don't know what's gonna be the opponent's next move).

I like Gwent because it reminds of Chess, a turn based game where you need to try to foresee the opponent's next move in order to win, but Morvran Voorhis' ability ruins all that. That's why, whenever I play against Morvran Voorhis' deck I forfeit even before the match starts. It's no fun!

Please do something about it.
 
Let me guess what's next? First Light is OP because ST (which is pretty shiat in the ranked btw) can draw Elven Mercenaries?
 
Gaillimh;n9365381 said:
It's OP and takes the fun out of the game
Statement of opinion. Considering Reveal Decks are nowhere close to dominating the 4000 MMR+ range it is also highly unlikely to be true.

Gaillimh;n9365381 said:
It's the only card in the game that allows to put down 24 points in 1 turn,
Not true at all. There are my cards that can put 20+ on the board quite easily. I've played a Grave Hag that gave me 40+ points a few times.

Gaillimh;n9365381 said:
I like Gwent because it reminds of Chess, a turn based game where you need to try to foresee the opponent's next move in order to win
Which doesn't change at all in a reveal match up. A lot of the time in Reveal Decks all you see is your own death three moves sooner. Him knowing your cards changes very little in the grand scheme of things. Especially with the way Reveal Decks are constructed, as generally in optimized decks they dont have as many counters as other decks do.

My only advice here would be learn to counter these decks. 99% of the time the issue isn't the cards it's the player.
 
Gaillimh

1) Morvran doesn't give you 24 points
2) There are plenty of cards that give even more points
3) The Reveal archetype isn't even that strong
4) Knowing your opponent's cards is useless if you can't avert the impending doom
5) Thread merged
 
Gaillimh;n9365381 said:
This is the first card game I've ever seen where cards have the ability to disclose other cards, which can be acceptable, especially since you introduced other NG cards that push the player to show his own cards.



This is an element in a lot of card games. And honestly, Morvran still isn't as abusive as some other cards, such as:

 
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