Nilfgaard Reveal - What do you think?

[ArianeGrosmont]

Morvran Voorhis' ability to disclose cards ruins the game. It's OP and takes the fun out of the game. This is the first card game I've ever seen where cards have the ability to disclose other cards, which can be acceptable, especially since you introduced other NG cards that push the player to show his own cards, but Morvran Voorhis' ability to disclose 3 cards is way OP.

It's the only card in the game that allows to put down 24 points in 1 turn, and if paired with Cahir gives you the chance to disclose all the cards in the opponent's hand, which goes against the basic principle of card games in general (that you don't know what's gonna be the opponent's next move).

I like Gwent because it reminds of Chess, a turn based game where you need to try to foresee the opponent's next move in order to win, but Morvran Voorhis' ability ruins all that. That's why, whenever I play against Morvran Voorhis' deck I forfeit even before the match starts. It's no fun!

Please do something about it.

Hey, can you let me know when you're about to play? I'll switch to my reveal deck. I could use a few easy MMR points from an automatic forfeit

But in all seriousness:
1.the comparison to chess- while definitely appropriate- doesn't help your argument: in chess you know exactly what pieces your opponent has and where they are on the board. And that doesn't take away the challenge of trying to figure out what's coming next.

3. As was mentioned by others, this is in no way the first time a card game uses this tactic.

3. The way I see it, the developers wanted each faction to have its' own something special (although the lines sometimes blur from one patch to the next). For instance: skellige has amazing interaction with the graveyard; northern realms have the trios and crewmen synergies of an army... For nilfgaard it's the reveal aspect

My point isn't that changes shouldn't be made, but that if changes are to be made, it should be in order to achieve ballance- (an OP card or synergy, abusing a bug/ broken mechanic etc.). I mean, I wouldn't want the graveyard interaction -something so special- to be taken away from skellige, even though in card games it's granted that a discard pile is no longer in play. Same goes for the nilfgaard special flavour: we shouldn't lose it because of some golden rule stating there's no peeking in card games.

​​​​​​​The point here isn't to make ''just another card game'', and if these rules that bind traditional card games seem holy to someone... well, they have many options to pick from other than gwent...

 

[ArianeGrosmont]

Gaillimh

1) Morvran doesn't give you 24 points
2) There are plenty of cards that give even more points
3) The Reveal archetype isn't even that strong
4) Knowing your opponent's cards is useless if you can't avert the impending doom
5) Thread merged

Not sure these two topics are the same: from what I gather, one asks: 'is reveal ruining the fun of the game?' while the other says: 'voorhis is OP and unfair'...

 

[4RM3D]

Not sure these two topics are the same: from what I gather, one asks: 'is reveal ruining the fun of the game?' while the other says: 'voorhis is OP and unfair'...

He was complaining about the ability to reveal cards, which is part of the reveal archetype. The only difference is that he just focused on a singular card. But the topic still remains the same. Also, for future reference, please do not discuss a moderator's decision in public. Instead, PM the moderation team if you wish to dispute it. (Not worth it in this case.)

 

[Mnorojo]

Reveal does pose some advantage. For example, you can wait before playing ceratin cards bases on what the opponent has. As we know, timing can win or lose matches. But reveal is by no means OP. If it were, it would dominate the ladder.

 

[Kerset]

OMG it so unfin to playz pls remove this and make my fav archetype the only playable one.
This is how this thread looks like. Why doesn't anybody say that NG knight is under-powered, if reveal is such powerful thing?

 

[ArianeGrosmont]

He was complaining about the ability to reveal cards, which is part of the reveal archetype. The only difference is that he just focused on a singular card. But the topic still remains the same. Also, for future reference, please do not discuss a moderator's decision in public. Instead, PM the moderation team if you wish to dispute it. (Not worth it in this case.)

No offense meant. I didn't want to dispute the decision, simply to understand it. Either way, point taken. Next time I'll do it privatly.

 

[williamr1024]

Gaillimh

1) Morvran doesn't give you 24 points
2) There are plenty of cards that give even more points
3) The Reveal archetype isn't even that strong
4) Knowing your opponent's cards is useless if you can't avert the impending doom
5) Thread merged

Yes it can give you 24.

Deploy, he gives you 6, calls out all golems, that's another 6, reveal all your foot soldiers, which calls them to the board, that is 12. 6 + 2 + 2 + 2 + 4 + 4 +4 is 24. Happens almost every time I start in the first round and if I have all my foot soldiers. Almost always results in an immediate pass unless they have an easy counter like swipe or weather.

Reveal is VERY strong in that at the end, if played right, you can have three cards in your deck or hand that have 15 - 20 power each (that can be close to 60 points in the final round). More if you use the coin to boost the highest card in your deck. And coupled with Cynthia to reveal the opponents highest card, if they are not smart enough to play that card immediately you can set it to 1 str. with your next play. It IS powerful, but nowhere near top tier powerful for ranking.

 

[4RM3D]

Deploy, he gives you 6, calls out all golems, that's another 6, reveal all your foot soldiers, which calls them to the board, that is 12. 6 + 2 + 2 + 2 + 4 + 4 +4 is 24.

Right, I calculated it wrong in my head. Still, having 3 Foot Soldiers and 0 Golems in your hand isn't going to happen that often. Regardless, it is a strong opening, but that is not enough to win. The Reveal archetype is pretty solid. When I said "not even that strong", I meant in the top ladder, i.e. there is nothing about the Reveal archetype that warrants a nerf.

 

[Gaillimh]

Statement of opinion. Considering Reveal Decks are nowhere close to dominating the 4000 MMR+ range it is also highly unlikely to be true.


Not true at all. There are my cards that can put 20+ on the board quite easily. I've played a Grave Hag that gave me 40+ points a few times.


Which doesn't change at all in a reveal match up. A lot of the time in Reveal Decks all you see is your own death three moves sooner. Him knowing your cards changes very little in the grand scheme of things. Especially with the way Reveal Decks are constructed, as generally in optimized decks they dont have as many counters as other decks do.

My only advice here would be learn to counter these decks. 99% of the time the issue isn't the cards it's the player.

1- Yes there are stronger cards like Grave Hag, but Grave Hag is even more OP, considering that it needs only 1 turn to trigger its ability, more powerful than many gold cards.

2- Knowing the opponent's hand can change the game completely, especially if you have cards with strong deploy abilities (like Geralt: Igni).

3- I didn't say it was the strongest deck, I said that it's no fun!

 

[Draconifors]

Reveal was the first deck I built in Open Beta (custom build, heavily teched against dorfs), and I had a lot of fun playing it. After some weeks it got a bit stale due to always having the same strategy. I still think it's a cool archetype and refreshing to play every now and then, though.

 

[Gaillimh]

This is an element in a lot of card games. And honestly, Morvran still isn't as abusive as some other cards, such as:

Touché. You're talking about Magic, though, where you have a deck of 60 cards where you can have only 4 types of the same card. What are the chances of getting that card?

While here we're talking about a leader card, so you can use it in every single match! Plus, in Magic you draw a new card at every turn, in Gwent you don't.

 

[ArianeGrosmont]

1- Yes there are stronger cards like Grave Hag, but Grave Hag is even more OP, considering that it needs only 1 turn to trigger its ability, more powerful than many gold cards.

2- Knowing the opponent's hand can change the game completely, especially if you have cards with strong deploy abilities (like Geralt: Igni).

3- I didn't say it was the strongest deck, I said that it's no fun!

1. I'm starting to think we have very different definitions of 'OP', if out of all the current things going on with monsters, you pick grave hag as an example for it...

2. Actually, with a card like Igni I find people play it safer by assuming their opponent does hold Igni. Meaning in order to eliminate this assumption you'd have to reveal all of your opponent's cards. Very possible, but in no way something you can achieve simply by playing Voorhis as your leader...

3. That's a completely different point, and a subjective one, which is why no one is saying you're 'wr​​​​​​ong' or 'right' in this: there is no 'wrong' but or 'right'. but you did state that it's OP, which is what some of us are disputing.

 

[Moridin2244]

1- Yes there are stronger cards like Grave Hag, but Grave Hag is even more OP, considering that it needs only 1 turn to trigger its ability, more powerful than many gold cards.

You said there is no card that can put 24 points on the field, I showed you one that can easily put 40 points. You're not even arguing against the point...

2- Knowing the opponent's hand can change the game completely, especially if you have cards with strong deploy abilities (like Geralt: Igni).

Every game I play I assume G. Igni is in play, literally every game. The same with other power cards, at the high level decks are limited and most run a certain segment of cards.

My point is you seem to not play at the high echolons of play (3800 mmr +) meaning the likely scenario is not that these cards are OP, it is that you just are not that good at playing against them. Instead of arguing they are OP when pretty much everyone is in agreement they're not perhaps a better use of time would be crafting a better deck to handle it.

 

[ChlopiecZZapalkami]

Nilfgard too OP

reveal and spy nilfgard has to be nerfed it destorys board and what i deploy is being smashed instantly. it is insane.
CDPR nerf pls

if you dont know what iam talking about watch lifecoach stream =)

 

[Ramcius]

and i thought you were serious for a second

 

[ChlopiecZZapalkami]

iam serious he is crushing peoples dreams with reveal nilfgard, and if people will copy his deck they all will crush dreams of those who doesent have the resources to meake dream crushing deck like it!

 

[Ramcius]

well, i'll take NG meta over armor NR and ST

 

[zecenker]

I am intersted to know, how others fell about the card reveal ability

It is mostly useless, really. If they lose the game, they do, never realizing they would spend their time better thinking about the game rather than peeking at my cards.
In fact, the more they reveal their cards, the better for me.

:wisegirl:

 

[TheZirrKing]

I Ladder with ONLY Nilfgaard, and I can say that it isn't that big a deal and it is actually better to reveal your own Fire Scorpions, and Foot Soilders over enemy cards anyways, the aspect of seeing your opponents cards is a plus but I think its fine considering it is a faction exclusive and hasn't been much of a problem in the past,

 

[xenogorgeous]

it's not a dominant archetype in this game, so, no worries about it