- Status
No way! Have you seen those interiors?
I'll be driving in FP for sure, even if I accidentally run over a few ppl lol
And you know what? I thank my lucky stars I can! Video game driving in non-driving-first games is hard enough in all perspectives.
The road is pretty much the only place where TPP works properly in 2077. The rest of the map is too compact for TPP camera controls. Simple as that.
Furthermore, while TPP enhances horizontal awareness. The feel of verticality is enhanced in FPP. And that feel of verticality is key to the setting.
I'll be playing in FPP for sure, driving included (I mean I'll be drive in FPP as well). I was kind of happy when they officially said it would be in first person. Sometimes you need to force a situation for everyone in order to push a certain kind of sensation you wanna give with the world etc, plus It makes a better look at the details and works good for immersion. If done PROPERLY. I often wished the witcher 3 to be in first person to appreciate the interiors, the details, and deliver me from that awful combat and Geralt's ugly model an aminations. (I had to install a mod to have it barely playable).
FPP is a design/artistic choice BUT:
1-Saves time because you don't have to make a good animated playable character. Because you won't see it and most studios use two different models for first person and third person. Actually in FPP there's no model in most cases, you're just an invisible entity moving around with a floatin gun, and maybe arms.
2-Makes the overall experience stiff if you don't actually animate the only model you use in a detailed way. If the point of view sticks to the eyes and you animate the head it might be a problem, it would suffice to keep the wobbling to a minimum, but at least animate combat animations and some not so problematic for movement enforced wobbling causing sickness. GTA and RDR first persons deal with many issues in clever ways.
When I saw the shadow of V on the container in the shooting footage of NCW, i was "Ohhh my...here we go". The character model was stiff as an iceberg as you could see from it's shadow, and looked like a model straight from CS mod. My bet is that clunckiness is partially given by the fact that they are using the same character model both for first person and as an entity in the world (like arma3 does it). That's why it feels cluncky.
Video for reference at the point I was describing. Check out his shadow and when it's projected in the room, don't look at the gun or the enemies, just focus on the shadow. That's where the problem lies. (if the bookmarked minute doesn't work for you jump to 17:55 and go from there)
FPP is a design/artistic choice BUT:
1-Saves time because you don't have to make a good animated playable character. Because you won't see it and most studios use two different models for first person and third person. Actually in FPP there's no model in most cases, you're just an invisible entity moving around with a floatin gun, and maybe arms.
2-Makes the overall experience stiff if you don't actually animate the only model you use in a detailed way. If the point of view sticks to the eyes and you animate the head it might be a problem, it would suffice to keep the wobbling to a minimum, but at least animate combat animations and some not so problematic for movement enforced wobbling causing sickness. GTA and RDR first persons deal with many issues in clever ways.
When I saw the shadow of V on the container in the shooting footage of NCW, i was "Ohhh my...here we go". The character model was stiff as an iceberg as you could see from it's shadow, and looked like a model straight from CS mod. My bet is that clunckiness is partially given by the fact that they are using the same character model both for first person and as an entity in the world (like arma3 does it). That's why it feels cluncky.
Last edited by a moderator:
Maybe the solution lies within a lore-respecting middleground where the game is strictly in first person, because CDPR has decided this of course, but there exists the vr glasses or vr contact lenses that V wears connected to a camera drone that follows them? Technically speaking, it's still first person, but allows V to see themselves and take nice photos, sometimes in some situations? This way, everyone wins. Unless CDPR doesn't like the drone thing, then whatever no big deal. It would explain why third person Car and Motorbike are possible though in a lore friendly way.
Post automatically merged:
I mean, the shadow does have some level of movement, but yes it is a little bit stiff. It could have more of a natural feminine hip movement I suppose. Hopefully this is only an early build. CDPR did say they delayed to smooth things out more right?
Last edited:
I just think it is borderline hypocrisy. People play the "immersion" card when it comes to FPP but as soon as it comes to driving, all options are on the table. You cant argue for FPP by saying it is immersive and puts you in the game in a way TPP cannot but then immediately click to the TPP view as soon as you get in the car.
Me, I will be driving in FPP because I think going to TPP kinda takes me out of immersion and the rhythm of FPP while on foot.
Last edited:
You had me laughing on the floor, and you're totally right.
I am guilty of liking third person car and motorbike view. I will be using first person a lot, but I will probably be using the third person car and motorbike views as well, probably a lot, even though I like the first person view too. Like I said in my other post, I think the best way to make things make sense is to have V wear invisible contacts that show a VR screen of a small hovering camera drone that explains the possibility of 3rd person motorbike and car views, and also allows V to take pictures of themselves and walk around a little and see their own self/clothing etc.What do you think?
I have never played the "immersion" card.
What I'm saying, is that it doesn't look like CDPR has invented a new way to control TPP camera and thus the dense urban landscape of Night City is only really feasible from the FPP. Especially if you want to have verticality to the map.
Simply put, TPP doesn't do tight spaces and a cyberpunk city explicitly reconstructed along Japanese lines of urban planning is going to have plenty of tight spaces.
if you consider the practicality of TPP in the architectural space of Night City, the camera just doesn't look like it has enough space to operate in such confined areas. a third person camera would constantly be closing in on the character to fit an alleyway, crowded public space, cluttered hideout. third person cameras need a lot of potential free space in which to move (spiderman, GoW, SR3, Just Cause). Night City isn't designed with the kind of orbital space around the player character to 'place' a camera that features the character in third person...not without forcing the camera to constantly be making drastic changes in fov everytime you walk inside a building interior or a cramped alley.
cars are different, because driveable spaces provide an option: first person camera (which just requires a little more deftness on the part of the player) or third person camera where the orbital space around the car needs to be more restricted anyway (it's gonna almost exclusively be horizontal), so camera fov transitions are less common if you drive in a space where looking to the side won't do anything for you (like through an alley)
cars are different, because driveable spaces provide an option: first person camera (which just requires a little more deftness on the part of the player) or third person camera where the orbital space around the car needs to be more restricted anyway (it's gonna almost exclusively be horizontal), so camera fov transitions are less common if you drive in a space where looking to the side won't do anything for you (like through an alley)
Last edited:
This is exactly my point.
They removed the V apartment cutscene from the 2018 demo due to "immersion" but leave in TPP driving with cars and motorcycles.
This is one of the best discussions I've seen on the topic with really good points on both sides, IMO. I confess, I am very partial to 3PP in cRPGs. One of the things I loved about Mass Effect 1-3 was getting to see -MY- Shepard in the dialogues (same in DA:I and seeing my Inquisitor). I'll embrace the silly geekiness of it: I like the "dress up" aspect of RPGs.
That said, while I would still prefer to have 3PP in CP2077, I think it's absolutely correct there are technical and design issues in an urban environment that don't exist in other games. Having the camera whipping around in 3PP could be very disorienting (breaking "immersion"), while just a fixed 1PP just lets you get into it and isn't disruptive. I feel like "immersion" is a bit of a lazy way to describe it, but when I think about the technical and gameplay issues around it, it makes more sense.
That said... maybe if they had done 3PP, those shadows wouldn't be so atrocious. <shudder> I'm kind of sad
nikolaskelset pointed that out; now I won't be able to not notice it.
That said, while I would still prefer to have 3PP in CP2077, I think it's absolutely correct there are technical and design issues in an urban environment that don't exist in other games. Having the camera whipping around in 3PP could be very disorienting (breaking "immersion"), while just a fixed 1PP just lets you get into it and isn't disruptive. I feel like "immersion" is a bit of a lazy way to describe it, but when I think about the technical and gameplay issues around it, it makes more sense.
That said... maybe if they had done 3PP, those shadows wouldn't be so atrocious. <shudder> I'm kind of sad
nikolaskelset pointed that out; now I won't be able to not notice it.
From the videos I have seen FPP driving seems feasible and many other games have it exclusively like Far Cry.
I am standing my ground and if CDPR wanted full immersion they would have had driving only in FPP. Regardless of any perceived technical limitations for FPP driving, it is still the most immersive method and one that keeps you in the world as V. The moment you get on a motorcycle and switch it to TPP and see your V from a TPP driving, the whole "FPP was a design choice to immerse people into the world" argument goes down the drain.
i make my case from a tehnical perspective about the implementation of design elements. i see other people arguing about the semantics of immersion. they're not the same conversation.
but if you want to have that conversation, the immersive effect of FPP for the player char on foot is not the same as the immersive effect as TPP for the player char in a moving vehicle.
it's difficult to discuss but i'm hoping once the game comes out i can explain it better with like, a video or something. i know what you're saying, but you and i are actually talking about different issues.
but if you want to have that conversation, the immersive effect of FPP for the player char on foot is not the same as the immersive effect as TPP for the player char in a moving vehicle.
it's difficult to discuss but i'm hoping once the game comes out i can explain it better with like, a video or something. i know what you're saying, but you and i are actually talking about different issues.
Oh my god now I can’t unsee that. Genuinely the first thing I’ve seen from this game that bothers me a little. Man that shadow is atrocious.
- Status