Nobody Seems To Be Raving About FPP

[KingRevolt]

Outside of the melee animations making melee attacks look a bit weightless and lacking in impact the first person animations looked fine to me

Can't say the thought ever crossed my mind. It's a bit difficult to make that comparison I feel.

Yeah, I'm not sure that comparison even crossed my mind until now? I think the general animations across the board are quite chunky, and good! However, combat animations do seem to be kinda boneless at the moment, but we don't know the actual state of the game, so who knows

 

[theg4dfly]

However, combat animations do seem to be kinda boneless at the moment, but we don't know the actual state of the game, so who knows

Well, we do have a pretty good idea of the state of the game, given that the footage released was from not too long ago. But we have to remember that the combat was from the very beginning part of the game, where you don't have any implants yet and are basically doing unmodified basic combat. Maybe, after a slew of cybernetic body and arm upgrades, you start hitting like a truck and there is more weight in each punch. We don't know if that is already implemented. I'm just saying it's possible that they wanted to contrast that with your experience from the beginning of the game, so you can feel a sense of progression.

 

[Codecypher]

Well, we do have a pretty good idea of the state of the game, given that the footage released was from not too long ago. But we have to remember that the combat was from the very beginning part of the game, where you don't have any implants yet and are basically doing unmodified basic combat. Maybe, after a slew of cybernetic body and arm upgrades, you start hitting like a truck and there is more weight in each punch. We don't know if that is already implemented. I'm just saying it's possible that they wanted to contrast that with your experience from the beginning of the game, so you can feel a sense of progression.

The deep dive video that was seen before NC Wire. There was fem V with strong solo build with cyber hands. The big Animal gang dude she punched in the neck was so wrecked by that strike and it looked powerful to me.

 

[HellKnightX88]

Actually, "first person animations" are the problems, normally you make the exact same moves whatever you see it from your own eyes or if someone is filming you with a camera.

In real life yeah. Not in videogames.

Mirror's Edge looks fine in first person. It looks quite impressive.
This is what it looks like in third person:

You almost never implement your first person animations as if you're making a third person game and then just slap the player camera on top of the neck when you're done because the end result looks weird. It doesn't look good in first person.
The viceversa also holds true obviously as showcased by the above video.

 

[KakitaTatsumaru]

In real life yeah. Not in videogames.

Mirror's Edge looks fine in first person. It looks quite impressive.
This is what it looks like in third person:

You almost never implement your first person animations as if you're making a third person game and then just slap the player camera on top of the neck when you're done because the end result looks weird. It doesn't look good in first person.
The viceversa also holds true obviously as showcased by the above video.

Minus you took it the wrong way: using an FPS game turned to TPS.
Use animations meant to be seen in TPS and turn it to FPS and it looks good.

Examples:

 

[HellKnightX88]

Minus you took it the wrong way: using an FPS game turned to TPS.
Use animations meant to be seen in TPS and turn it to FPS and it looks good.

Did you read the entirety of my post?

Specifically this bit:

You almost never implement your first person animations as if you're making a third person game and then just slap the player camera on top of the neck when you're done because the end result looks weird.

Chivalry is made with first person in mind. The first person animations are specifically made for first person. They did not use the 3rd person animations directly in first person in a game focused on first person. You may be thinking "why go through all the effort of remaking animations in first person" and the answer is: third person animations look weird in first person if you just "transplant" them directly.

It's like trying to make a car, a boat and a plane at the same time and the end result will be something that doesn't drive too well when compared to cars, doesn't fly too well when compared to planes and doesn't sail to well when compared to boats.
It does all 3 but it doesn't excel at any of them.

RDR2 is build primarily for third person and even then they don't reuse the same animations, they're edited.
I've dicked around with the perspective in RDR2 in my still ongoing multi hundred hour playthrough and the animations aren't 1:1. All of the 1st person animations are tweaked compared to their 3rd person counterparts (or even missing in some cases).
For example there is no first person animation for the protagonist with a rifle idle in their left hand like you have in third person and that could have easily been done if your theory of just reusing third person animations directly was true.

And to provide another example.
I don't know how familiar you are with Skyrim modding but between Oldrim and SkyrimSE we've had a few immersive first person camera mods (basically when you look down you can see your body). They're not trivial to make, they require a lot of reverse engineering and are typically implemented as script extender plugins and not normal mods because Skyrim simply wasn't built for such mods.
Although now that I think about it Joy Of Perspective was done through editing the first person skeleton I believe... yes, that's another thing, the two perspectives don't even use the same skeleton in Bethesda's games.

Some of them use the first person arms and render the body from the neck down minus ehad and arms. They do this by dynamically scaling some bones in the 3rd person skeleton (head, arms) basically making parts of your 3rd person character infinitely small so they don't overalp with the first person bits and then just render everything left. They do this because the third person attack animations involving your arms look weird in first person in Skyrim.
And some camera mods don't and as a result some attack animations looks plain bad and they also have to solve other issues like spinning attacks spinning your camera around.

 

[KakitaTatsumaru]

Did you read the entirety of my post?

Specifically this bit:


Chivalry is made with first person in mind. The first person animations are specifically made for first person. They did not use the 3rd person animations directly in first person in a game focused on first person. You may be thinking "why go through all the effort of remaking animations in first person" and the answer is: third person animations look weird in first person if you just "transplant" them directly.

It's like trying to make a car, a boat and a plane at the same time and the end result will be something that doesn't drive too well when compared to cars, doesn't fly too well when compared to planes and doesn't sail to well when compared to boats.
It does all 3 but it doesn't excel at any of them.

RDR2 is build primarily for third person and even then they don't reuse the same animations, they're edited.
I've dicked around with the perspective in RDR2 in my still ongoing multi hundred hour playthrough and the animations aren't 1:1. All of the 1st person animations are tweaked compared to their 3rd person counterparts (or even missing in some cases).
For example there is no first person animation for the protagonist with a rifle idle in their left hand like you have in third person and that could have easily been done if your theory of just reusing third person animations directly was true.

And to provide another example.
I don't know how familiar you are with Skyrim modding but between Oldrim and SkyrimSE we've had a few immersive first person camera mods (basically when you look down you can see your body). They're not trivial to make, they require a lot of reverse engineering and are typically implemented as script extender plugins and not normal mods because Skyrim simply wasn't built for such mods.
Although now that I think about it Joy Of Perspective was done through editing the first person skeleton I believe... yes, that's another thing, the two perspectives don't even use the same skeleton in Bethesda's games.

Some of them use the first person arms and render the body from the neck down minus ehad and arms. They do this by dynamically scaling some bones in the 3rd person skeleton (head, arms) basically making parts of your 3rd person character infinitely small so they don't overalp with the first person bits and then just render everything left. They do this because the third person attack animations involving your arms look weird in first person in Skyrim.
And some camera mods don't and as a result some attack animations looks plain bad and they also have to solve other issues like spinning attacks spinning your camera around.

So, to resume you point: First person in video games is an utter failure at reproducing what they are trying to reproduce: Real life PoV (and its immersion).

 

[Nikola_Nesic]

First Person is not same as IRL view it is not even close, also people talk about Night City and how is cramp place and how camera would not work in 3rd person, from NCW you see that city is big for 3rd person, also Max Payne, Hitman, Batman Arkham games all are set in citys with 3rd person, also immersion is subjective term, not all going to be immerse in First person as they would be in 3rd person.

I would be really happy that if we get 3rd person after a year of game release, like players got First person for The evil within 2.

 

[HellKnightX88]

So, to resume you point: First person in video games is an utter failure at reproducing what they are trying to reproduce: Real life PoV (and its immersion).

Not really. Some games do it fairly well like GTA5/RDR2. Thief 3 shows it's age but it's very immersive to try to take cover in the shadows and as you look down notice that your arm is still hit by light so you shuffle a bit so it doesn't in order to avoid being spotted by that guard that keeps patrolling around.

What I'm saying is that just using third person animations directly in first person can look weird. They need some tweaking. And if you're going to make a game that is solely first person then developing your animations specifically for that purpose is the way to go instead of making sure they look good from a 3rd person perspective and just use those diretly in first person.

 

[gogmeister777]

I'm pretty sure they confirmed that even romance scenes are in FPP so get ready for the ultra creepy awkwardness of kissy lips zooming in super close on your screen and worse!

Just wanted to point out, since it's kinda funny, that if you see lips zooming in and kissing your actual 'screen', then that'd be the equivalent of your lover kissing you directly on an eyeball - lid open and everything. I doubt CDPR are going for something as unusual, painful and kinky as that.

So yeah.....I don't think you need to worry about that when kissing You'll see pretty much whatever you would in real life if you kept your eyes open while smooching; their eyes looking into yours or their eyes closed.

 

[Nefla]

Just wanted to point out, since it's kinda funny, that if you see lips zooming in and kissing your actual 'screen', then that'd be the equivalent of your lover kissing you directly on an eyeball - lid open and everything. I doubt CDPR are going for something as unusual, painful and kinky as that.

So yeah.....I don't think you need to worry about that when kissing You'll see pretty much whatever you would in real life if you kept your eyes open while smooching; their eyes looking into yours or their eyes closed.

I mean, when holding a gun you'd see your whole arms and your chest but in a FPS you just see hands or just the guns so this kind of thing is already wonky. I just can't imagine kissing and sex scenes in FPP to be anything other than awkward and creepy.

 

[iv2b]

Minus you took it the wrong way: using an FPS game turned to TPS.
Use animations meant to be seen in TPS and turn it to FPS and it looks good.

Examples:

The rdr2 animations aren't the same both first and third person, look at the lasso for example.

When holding it you're seeing an animation designed for first person specifically, after which it transitions to the real reeling animation after the throw (which is exactly when both hands disappear unless you look straight down).
The same can be seen with the unarmed fights shown in the video where your fists are right in front of your camera (regardless of angle too), while in third person they're much lower. Once you actually start punching then you see the real animations which causes your hands to pretty much go out of sight half the time.

I'm not sure about chivalry, but mordhau does cheat by having 2 different animation sets.
All swing animations are the same, while everything else is different between first and third person.
When performing a cut the game blends between the two.
This can be observed by holding a longsword and quickly switching between first and third person, you'll see that in first person the sword the held at an angle, while in third person it's held vertically.

 

[KakitaTatsumaru]

The same can be seen with the unarmed fights shown in the video where your fists are right in front of your camera (regardless of angle too), while in third person they're much lower. Once you actually start punching then you see the real animations which causes your hands to pretty much go out of sight half the time.

Actually that's one of the things I already said: unrealistic view because weapons are almost always on sight.
To one who have already wielded weapons that's very disturbing.
There is a reason some people have begun to thinks the camera was on the chest:

 

[iv2b]

Actually that's one of the things I already said: unrealistic view because weapons are almost always on sight.
To one who have already wielded weapons that's very disturbing.
There is a reason some people have begun to thinks the camera was on the chest

Hah that's a fair point, it happens when the first person camera's fov is too low and to be fair cp2077's quite low too.

My point's only that you can't take normal animations and slap a camera in the character's head (or chest) without it looking all over the place, everything else is fair game.

 

[StereoFlava]

How are people still butthurt about this after 2 years?
I understood the disappointment back in 2018 i was one of those, but come on.
This game won't have a third-person view period(DLC or Expansion), anyone who thinks otherwise hasn't the slightest idea how much time and money it would take to implement that in a game with this many systems, animations, it's clear this game was built with FP view in mind from the ground up, it is in its foundation.

 

[Sild]

Alright. Seems anything worth saying has already been said. A few pages back. This is going the same way as all the other "TPPvsFPP" threads we had, which means it's time to put this one to rest.