Voiced games really need something so that you know a character is talking to you though.
So you want to have the freedom to kill a busload of nuns who did nothing to you, but you want the line to be drawn in the sand, firmly, just before raping and child murdering? Interesting. What's so morally acceptable about killing a bunch of nuns, if you don't mind me asking?
It's already a reality in some ways. I remember watching a Ted Talk about the use of computer software tracking programs (primarily developed to aid in advertising [of course...
]). The long and the short of it is that a psychologist conducted a study over several years. He wanted to see if analyzing the results of these software trackers could somehow be used to predict mania in as-of-yet undiagnosed patients.
The simple answer was, "Yes. It was...amazingly accurate." It was more effective than any technique ever developed through science or medicine, and it was much faster, too.
What is terrifying is that he could not publish the study. He couldn't release his findings because, even after years of research and analysis between an entire teams of psychologists, psychiatrists, software engineers, and data analysts...they could not understand what the computer was doing. Somehow, this algorithm written to help websites decide what ads to pop up on your browser was more effective at detecting indicators of people suffering from severe, treatable psychological disorders than the experts, but they still don't understand how it works.
Now, I think it's only a matter of time before humanity starts simply "using the tool". And it's the computer that will be making the decisions.
]). The long and the short of it is that a psychologist conducted a study over several years. He wanted to see if analyzing the results of these software trackers could somehow be used to predict mania in as-of-yet undiagnosed patients.The simple answer was, "Yes. It was...amazingly accurate." It was more effective than any technique ever developed through science or medicine, and it was much faster, too.
What is terrifying is that he could not publish the study. He couldn't release his findings because, even after years of research and analysis between an entire teams of psychologists, psychiatrists, software engineers, and data analysts...they could not understand what the computer was doing. Somehow, this algorithm written to help websites decide what ads to pop up on your browser was more effective at detecting indicators of people suffering from severe, treatable psychological disorders than the experts, but they still don't understand how it works.
Now, I think it's only a matter of time before humanity starts simply "using the tool". And it's the computer that will be making the decisions.
The best way to do stealth, IMO, is the idea of hiding in plain sight. Most people never notice the binman, or the cab driver, and such things. If you're as mundane looking as possible, with a little electronic aid perhaps, you can show up on sensors and still not be noticed.
This is a great point, additionally, even in corp offices, not every corridor/room is going to be decked out with a full array of sensors. Yeah the technology exists, but it costs money to purchase/build, install, and monitor every sensor, that all quickly adds up and wreaks havoc on the bottom line. There will be gaps because a risk analyst said the chance of intrusion down this path isn't likely enough, or the potential cost if it does isn't high enough, etc, or maybe they did, but the exec heading the building's construction needed to show some cost savings and it was that or downgrading their Brazilian oak desk.
This is a good point, I didn't think about this. Guess that's where the FPS combat comes in. If you are good enough at twitch combat, you can take down anybody no matter you build.
Personal I think almost everything is fine, but it needs to fit the game. If a game just adds stuff like killing children just because they want to make a headline or something, Im against it. But I honestly think its a rough question, because you have a game (can't remember what its called) where you for instant can play a baby which purpose is to kill it self, in rather crazy ways, while the parent have to try to prevent it from doing so. Now this game is meant to be for fun, so probably wont upset a lot of people.
So exactly where to draw the line seems to be a bit blurred and can understand why a lot of game studios won't touch it, because if its done in a fun way it seems like almost everything is tolerated, but if its not you will get slammed.
But on the other hand no one seems to have a problems when stuff like that happens in movies, which is not really uncommon, only difference is that you as person doesn't make the decision directly in such cases. Guess what im trying to say is that I find this whole topic of what should be allowed and what shouldn't a bit confusing. Thought of the same with all the cursing and it being very shocking and needed to be beeped out. However watching people getting blown to pieces, tortured, raped, abused and whatever else you will find in a lot of movies is no problem. But cursing!! Now that is where you have to draw the line, to me it makes very little sense and not very well thought out, whoever figured out that cursing on TV is just to much.
So its all about content and a game is a lot like movies to me in that sense, if a game is suppose to morally challenge me, it need to do whatever it takes to do that, its part of the experience and it can either be done in a good way like watching a good movie or it can be done bad, and its the same with computer games I think, not sure why there should be a lot of difference in that regard. Im yet to see any computer games or movies that have gone to far, lots which are stupid and without a whole lot of purpose. But I don't have a problem distinguishing a game or movie from whats real.
Watching something shocking is stuff like "Earthlings" by Shaun Monson almost made me throw in the towel, but forced myself through it. Now here you could have an interesting discussion about morality
So exactly where to draw the line seems to be a bit blurred and can understand why a lot of game studios won't touch it, because if its done in a fun way it seems like almost everything is tolerated, but if its not you will get slammed.
But on the other hand no one seems to have a problems when stuff like that happens in movies, which is not really uncommon, only difference is that you as person doesn't make the decision directly in such cases. Guess what im trying to say is that I find this whole topic of what should be allowed and what shouldn't a bit confusing. Thought of the same with all the cursing and it being very shocking and needed to be beeped out. However watching people getting blown to pieces, tortured, raped, abused and whatever else you will find in a lot of movies is no problem. But cursing!! Now that is where you have to draw the line, to me it makes very little sense and not very well thought out, whoever figured out that cursing on TV is just to much.
So its all about content and a game is a lot like movies to me in that sense, if a game is suppose to morally challenge me, it need to do whatever it takes to do that, its part of the experience and it can either be done in a good way like watching a good movie or it can be done bad, and its the same with computer games I think, not sure why there should be a lot of difference in that regard. Im yet to see any computer games or movies that have gone to far, lots which are stupid and without a whole lot of purpose. But I don't have a problem distinguishing a game or movie from whats real.
Watching something shocking is stuff like "Earthlings" by Shaun Monson almost made me throw in the towel, but forced myself through it. Now here you could have an interesting discussion about morality
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If you have to ask that question, then we aren't going to be able to communicate effectively. I am pretty sure you know the answer, and are either being obtuse or just trolling.
That's the price of cinematic storytelling with a fully voiced protagonist.
As far as your first question goes, I don't know where that line is, and there is a lot of trouble in trying to establish that line if it isn't your name on the art.
On your second question I find more ground for discussion though. I don't think it would be morally reprehensible to depict characters suffering. I think it would encourage players to consider their actions and give a deeper gaming experience. I think MANY players on the other hand would be disturbed by it to the point of not wanting to play/purchase your game, and reception among critics would likely be pretty polarized. I don't believe it would have any more of a desensitizing effect than showing that people are virtual and don't suffer when you mow them down by the dozen. I think the real downside to this is that depicting suffering in your game would be impactful enough that many people are going to see this as the point of your game even if you had intended otherwise.
On your second question I find more ground for discussion though. I don't think it would be morally reprehensible to depict characters suffering. I think it would encourage players to consider their actions and give a deeper gaming experience. I think MANY players on the other hand would be disturbed by it to the point of not wanting to play/purchase your game, and reception among critics would likely be pretty polarized. I don't believe it would have any more of a desensitizing effect than showing that people are virtual and don't suffer when you mow them down by the dozen. I think the real downside to this is that depicting suffering in your game would be impactful enough that many people are going to see this as the point of your game even if you had intended otherwise.
Yeah, it's going to have to be a LOT more "creative" then you typical "Hide in Shadows".
Is stealth impossible in CP2077.
No.
Is it as easy as most games make it.
HELL NO!
Well said all around, but this particular bit struck a chord with me. Never going to be OK with rape or child abuse (even animal abuse bothers me, which is probably why most games shy away from it except in the cartoony GTA "hey I ran over that dog and he went flying!" way) in a game, no matter how much someone advocates for "DARK THEMEZ" and "MATOORITY!"
If you're a mature individual, you don't need to be able to rape someone in a game to feel good about your purchase.
I do think it's interesting where our society draws the line, but I understand why that line is drawn and largely agree with it.
From what I gathered fron videos by the ytbers who say the E3 demo, all situations can be aproached from different angles and all problems has multiple solutions tahat can bring different outcomes like fight or deal etc. But I wouldn't hold my breath for the full non-combat playthrough option.
And this is what terrifies me about AI in real life.
So many people assume we can control AIs, how when we can't even understand them?
But let's not rehash this point yet again, find the discussion in the archives.
With all due respect to Maximum Mike he failed to take a number of factors into account in CP2020.
No need to get defensive, I'm not judging you for your views on morality. I'm genuinely asking what's so acceptable about killing a bunch of nuns? but not killing children in a game. I've killed a bunch of children in Skyrim. Straight up Fus Ro Dah'd them out of existence because they make annoying and snarky remarks. It seems the developers of Skyrim knew we couldn't hurt children and deliberately made them some of the most annoying NPCs in the game. Hell, I even drained a few kids dry in broad daylight as a vampire lord. Food is food, no morals there. As for rape in games, it'd be great to rape the rapists in a game. Like Witcher 2's Loredo, A certain Pillars of Eternity character. Whoreson Jr from Witcher 3. The satisfaction of making them feel what they did to others would be something new, but I understand why things like that aren't actual choices available in a game.
Lol dude, did you just wake up after the launch of Fable? This hasn't been a thing in a solid decade.
CD Projekt has already made three games with moral choices that were never black and white. I think itll be fine.