NPC's and Their A.I.

[username_3643957]

NPC's and Their A.I.

An important element of the open game world of Night City is, of cource, going to be its inhabitants. So that raises the question, what will these inhabitants be doing as you play? How do you think it should be? Should they be limited to aimlessly walking about the streets to serve as fillers of the environment (obviously less favorable) or should they be involved in their own activities, actually doing something to simulate a living, breathing world?

And enemies, how smart should they be A.I. wise in being able to take you down? How hard should they be to defeat on the standard difficulty setting?

Lemme hear them thoughts.

 

[gregski]

I don't mind people just wandering in the streets to make them feel alive, I understand that simulating something like Night City has its limits. For me the most important thing is the atmosphere, not if every bunch of pixels I pass in the street has it's own "life".

Of course I expect that the NPCs behaviour will be contextual depending of where we are - the street/corporate building/gang hideout/hospital etc. Every area should have a set of different NPC behaviours.

 

[Littature]

Ah yes, AI I was wondering when a thread like this would come up. Anyway, as you said: NPC's limited to aimlessly walking about the streets to serve as fillers of the environment is definitely NOT favorable and totally breaks the immersion in the game. People should have their own thing to do, random conversations with people over the phone or people in the streets, doing their shopping etc. Also have some random events in there, like some thug trying to steal something or a gang fight between two gangs. Of course it is not possible for each NPC to be completely dynamic and like gregski said NPC behavior should be contextual depending of where we are.

As for this:

And enemies, how smart should they be A.I. wise in being able to take you down?

They should be as smart as possible.

And for the difficulty, I'm not really sure. An easier difficulty should probably make the enemies less tough as in have less health. Making an enemy more stupid because the difficulty is lower sounds silly to me. Maybe make them less accurate when playing in a lower difficulty.

 

[blank_redge]

Of course I expect that the NPCs behaviour will be contextual depending of where we are - the street/corporate building/gang hideout/hospital etc. Every area should have a set of different NPC behaviours.

Agreed.

While I don't expect ALL of the NPC toons to be robust and dynamic, I wouldn't mind little touches, here and there.

Turn a corner, see two NPCs having what appears to be a conversation, one waves goodbye, the other waves goodbye, the first climbs in to a parked car and drives off, the second walks off, down the block.

Walk in to a convenince store, NPC approaches the cashier NPC, brief exchange, customer walks out.

Little touches like that would be nice.

And, of course, if someone starts shooting, most (if not all) NPCs that aren't Boostergangers or cops should turn tail and run for cover, or otherwise go prone.

Making an enemy more stupid because the difficulty is lower sounds silly to me. Maybe make them less accurate when playing in a lower difficulty.

Agreed, especially the bolded.

 

[username_3643957]

No doubt gregski. Atmosphere is paramount.

Let me explain on the whole "wandering civilians" thing though. Now, I'm not saying that all of them should have a scripted round about around town in which they participate in this and that to simulate a life. That's not possible, at least not yet. There are going to be those who just wander, I suppose. But I think that to make this as immersive a game as possible, they should have some kind of contextual actions like just having some standing around and talking about what's been happening in the game recently, or "shopping" in stores, scoring illegal items in a dark alleyway, mugging, fighting, chasing, etc.

 

[braindancer12]

I don't mind people just wandering in the streets to make them feel alive, I understand that simulating something like Night City has its limits. For me the most important thing is the atmosphere, not if every bunch of pixels I pass in the street has it's own "life".

Of course I expect that the NPCs behaviour will be contextual depending of where we are - the street/corporate building/gang hideout/hospital etc. Every area should have a set of different NPC behaviours.

i think the same. More important for me are different looking characters. i hate clone characters like Batman Arkham Asylum or many other games.

 

[username_3643957]

Ah yes, AI I was wondering when a thread like this would come up. Anyway, as you said: NPC's limited to aimlessly walking about the streets to serve as fillers of the environment is definitely NOT favorable and totally breaks the immersion in the game. People should have their own thing to do, random conversations with people over the phone or people in the streets, doing their shopping etc. Also have some random events in there, like some thug trying to steal something or a gang fight between two gangs. Of course it is not possible for each NPC to be completely dynamic and like gregski said NPC behavior should be contextual depending of where we are.

As for this: They should be as smart as possible.

And for the difficulty, I'm not really sure. An easier difficulty should probably make the enemies less tough as in have less health. Making an enemy more stupid because the difficulty is lower sounds silly to me. Maybe make them less accurate when playing in a lower difficulty.

Couldn't agree more/.

 

[blank_redge]

i think the same. More important for me are different looking characters. i hate clone characters like Batman Arkham Asylum or many other games.

Agreed. I think both Saints Row 2 and GTA IV addressed this pretty well; people in different parts of town, dressed differently.

 

[username_3643957]

i i hate clone characters like Batman Arkham Asylum or many other games.

EXACTLY!

The most irritating thing I've ever seen in a game is when some NPC's are walking down the street and ALL of them look the same. This was ridiculously common in Saints Row the Third...

 

[gregski]

No doubt gregski. Atmosphere is paramount.

Let me explain on the whole "wandering civilians" thing though. Now, I'm not saying that all of them should have a scripted round about around town in which they participate in this and that to simulate a life. That's not possible, at least not yet. There are going to be those who just wander, I suppose. But I think that to make this as immersive a game as possible, they should have some kind of contextual actions like just having some standing around and talking about what's been happening in the game recently, or "shopping" in stores, scoring illegal items in a dark alleyway, mugging, fighting, chasing, etc.

Oh, yeah, I'm totally all for something like that! And knowing CDPR, we're going to have lots of such little touches, conversations we can overhear, people doing different things depending of what is happening in the game or what location we're in.

I mean, Witcher 2's Flotsam NPCs behaviours were rather simple, and still the town felt lively. And those hilarious bits of conversations between the inhabitants...they made me chuckle so often

 

[username_3643957]

Oh, yeah, I'm totally all for something like that! And knowing CDPR, we're going to have lots of such little touches, conversations we can overhear, people doing different things depending of what is happening in the game or what location we're in.

I mean, Witcher 2's Flotsam NPCs behaviours were rather simple, and still the town felt lively. And those hilarious bits of conversations between the inhabitants...they made me chuckle so often

Yeah if anyone can deliever CDPR can! And if the graphics are as good as the Teaser like they said it should be, this going to be one hell of a game.

P.S.

Ah! I still never had the pleasure of playing the Witcher, I should get it soon.

 

[wisdom000]

Ah yes, AI I was wondering when a thread like this would come up. Anyway, as you said: NPC's limited to aimlessly walking about the streets to serve as fillers of the environment is definitely NOT favorable and totally breaks the immersion in the game. People should have their own thing to do, random conversations with people over the phone or people in the streets, doing their shopping etc. Also have some random events in there, like some thug trying to steal something or a gang fight between two gangs. Of course it is not possible for each NPC to be completely dynamic and like gregski said NPC behavior should be contextual depending of where we are.

As for this: They should be as smart as possible.

And for the difficulty, I'm not really sure. An easier difficulty should probably make the enemies less tough as in have less health. Making an enemy more stupid because the difficulty is lower sounds silly to me. Maybe make them less accurate when playing in a lower difficulty.

Amen to all this.

Agreed. I think both Saints Row 2 and GTA IV addressed this pretty well; people in different parts of town, dressed differently.

Both games did an amazing job of it, seeing the larpers, cheerleaders, guitar players, barbershop quartets, shoppers and people fishing in SR2 made the world seem to fucking alive. Then in GTA 4 you had guys washing windows, having conversations with each other, talking on the phone, sweeping the streets, using ATM's.... both games did this simply brilliantly.

However the very best example of believable NPC AI's was in fallout 3... every morning on the aircraft carrier, all the NPC's would gather in the hold and have breqakfast together, where they would chat with each other, the kids would act like brats, the people would gossip, argue, mingle... it was fucking amazing... The first time I saw that I watched it with jaw dropped astonishment. It was literally the coolest background bit of nothing I have ever seen, programmed in just because, and half the people who play the game never even see it.

 

[Garrison72]

Biggest thing for me is having them react to time of day and the PC. In SR3, AI does what it does all day and night long. In TW2, ambient AI reacts to time of day, PC actions and weather effects. I'd expect the same from Night City.

 

[MasticatorDeelux]

I think what people really want is for things in the game to make sense, whenever possible. Considering NPC reactions are a key part of that, it's a necessity.

 

[Lolssi83.811]

I agree pretty much everything said so far. Just few observations Night City is megapolis with millions people? So can't really expect to have conversation with everybody. Or that there would actually be millions people. Hitman has done some amazing crowds, but not expecting that level here.
Day and night npc cycle. How are shops open in Night City (didn't like it in skyrim when I arrived to town at night and shops were closed)? I'm totally fine if shops are closed at night, but millions of people living in city many will propably have different day and night cycles than normal, so city should feel alive at night also. Though this is cyberpunk.. is there even gonna be day time?

Now about combat. Without any defensive gadgets headshot should kill npcs pretty much everytime. Also one or two shots to middle torso should finish the job.
About combat AI I'd like to see something like original Half-Life commandos tossing granades and flanking you.

Or even better F.E.A.R AI. Not the best example video below but you get the idea. Flanking and moving, jumping over obstacles and through windows finding ways to reach you that you wouldn't perhaps expect.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0q3WQO-OGg

 

[wisdom000]

Though this is cyberpunk.. is there even gonna be day time?

I have seen a couple of other people say this..... where the hell are people getting the idea that there isn't a day time? I know its called Night City, but that was just the name of it's founder. Trust me, the sun shines in night city now and again... when its not covered up by rain clouds or smog,.... but there is definitely day time...

 

[braindancer12]

I think what people really want is for things in the game to make sense, whenever possible. Considering NPC reactions are a key part of that, it's a necessity.

right

 

[Lolssi83.811]

I have seen a couple of other people say this..... where the hell are people getting the idea that there isn't a day time? I know its called Night City, but that was just the name of it's founder. Trust me, the sun shines in night city now and again... when its not covered up by rain clouds or smog,.... but there is definitely day time...

Deus Ex mostly I'd quess. Also what I remember (been 15-20 years) and pics I've seen lately from Blade Runner seems like mostly night time.

 

[Sardukhar]

It is mostly night time. The name of the city was no coincidence - it is a city of metaphorical and, with the rain and smog, often literal night. Much of what you and your Team does will be under cover of patchwork darkness, lit by the yellow-acid beams of distant halogen bulbs. The rain will obscure your visors, steam up your combat masks and blur the outlines of distant objects. Dim, dark and scary.

Of course, Wisdom is correct, though. There is day time. It's bright and cutting, slashing through the clouds of dust that rolled in along the highway from the desert. The sunlight shows every crack, every seam and the results of the acidic atmosphere on the cheap semi-plastic of Night City's buildings.

The sun is reddened, thanks to the pollution, staining your friends' faces bloody and drawn, reflected too brightly in their mirrorshades and from the hundreds of windows in vehicles and store-fronts around you. Windows that can repel racing vehicles and bullets with equal ease. Windows that show you the truth: you are getting too old for this. You'll be 24 next Friday, two years older than your brother when he died in this shitty town.

In the distance, the impassive silver rows of corporate power reach into the merciless sky, their towering disdain for you and yours echoed by the casual arrogance of luxurious company aerodynes that come and go from their secure precincts. Occasionally, one of the powerful can be seen flying lower than usual from these gleaming ceramic-composite needles, a few stories above the Street. The light catches the customized fan-housings of the hyper-expensive AV-7 you used to dream of owning, but know only too well you will never touch.

Well, not with your hand. You pat the etched-metal of the Ruger Lawmaster riding on your hip. It doesn't gleam or glow. It's seen years of hard use and abuse. The contacts on the grip are worn to a dull sheen and the ammo count glows "14" in pale green, barely visible in the sun.

You're getting a headache. You command your eyes to polarize and a darkened shadow descends across the world, shades of grey replacing the colour. Much better.

Far above you, the never-distant clouds drift in again. Fat droplets of polluted water start to land around you, spattering grey mud across your boots.

You settle in to wait for night-time.

 

[rednotdead]

We have ourselves an artist, it seems.