Nuanced villians

[Garrison72]

Everyone knows how epic Letho and Jacques de Aldersberg were. They are, simply, some of the best villains in video game history. They had believable motivations and intelligent personalities. All of this was lost in TW3. The Wild Hunt and Eredin were generic villains. I'm not going to rant about that game, but I'm imploring CDPR to return to your roots when it comes to creating complex and interesting antagonists. Give us that Cyberpunk Letho. Make them complicated and morally ambiguous. Don't do the big bad evil again.

 

[Snowflakez]

Everyone knows how epic Letho and Jacques de Aldersberg were. They are, simply, some of the best villains in video game history. They had believable motivations and intelligent personalities. All of this was lost in TW3. The Wild Hunt and Eredin were generic villains. I'm not going to rant about that game, but I'm imploring CDPR to return to your roots when it comes to creating complex and interesting antagonists. Give us that Cyberpunk Letho. Make them complicated and morally ambiguous. Don't do the big bad evil again.

I agree, and I think you're going to get your wish. CP is a much different setting, after all.

I loved Letho.

 

[Yuli-Ban]

I don't have much to contribute to this topic other than some cardinal rules of what makes a good villain:

Why Good Characters Need Good Flaws

Villains versus Antagonists: 6 Tools for Creating a Compelling Adversary for your Protagonist

All of our iconic villains tend to have these traits. It's why Darth Vader is more famous than Sheev "The Senate" Palpatine. All of the bad villains in fiction— regardless of medium— tend to have the same basic problems: they only exist to oppose the hero, and thus they're evil for the sake of it. When you set their evilness against real life, all logic collapses into a Saturday morning singularity, but it works for a basic generic narrative. You're on the right path of making a good villain when you could write a fully-fleshed out mirror story that ends as a tragedy (unless they win, of course). Most generic villains would make for awful stories because what's the narrative arc? Especially considering that most generic stories typically involve having the villain win right up until the end as a means of increasing the tension. If you read a real life story like that, it'd be boring only to end giving you blue balls.

 

[Gillian_Seed]

When it comes to villains, for me there is nothing more powerful in an emotionally reflective sense than someone with whom I identify with yet despise. The villain I want to save yet am prepared to kill is my kind of villain.

 

[Sneky]

Everyone knows how epic Letho and Jacques de Aldersberg were. They are, simply, some of the best villains in video game history.

Gaunter o'Dim *blocks their path*

 

[Garrison72]

Gaunter o'Dim *blocks their path*

He's very stylish but not as well written as Letho or Jacque. The thing is, Letho especially is a very layered character. It takes some effort by the player to really understand his place in the story. Compare that to the Wild Hunt by CDPR which is basically: we want to get Ciri. It's incredibly shallow and one dimensional.

 

[227]

Give us that Cyberpunk Letho. Make them complicated and morally ambiguous. Don't do the big bad evil again.

Psh, Letho wasn't a villain. He was a misunderstood teddy bear who just happened to have a passion for decapitation.

Honestly, I think they painted themselves into a corner with W3 by building up to the Wild Hunt in previous games without a plan for how to handle something that's more a force of nature than a villain. I imagine we'll be returning to more focused villainy for 2077 out of necessity since it's not practical/possible to single-handedly take down a corporation. My only real worry is that the motivations of everyone who crosses V will boil down to simple, boring avarice.

 

[Sardukhar]

My only real worry is that the motivations of everyone who crosses V will boil down to simple, boring avarice.

Whoah. Avarice is beautiful.

 

[Draconifors]

Psh, Letho wasn't a villain. He was a misunderstood teddy bear who just happened to have a passion for decapitation.

That's one way to put it, I guess.

Letho, Jacques and Gaunter were all great villains, and I'd definitely like to see something -- or someone -- similar in CP.
Not just a "big bad guy".
All in all, I agree with this topic.

 

[MRM70]

I am not sure, whether a classical villain would work so well in Cyberpunk. When you can make so many decisions, your antagonist of one playthrough might be your ally in another playthrough. Different shades of grey approach may work better for the game

 

[doolydeath]

Always thought that a part of the whole Cyberpunk feel was that anyone could be a possible enemy if you look at them wrong. Having a specific recurring 'villian' would probably feel out of place.

Here's hoping that there's an option to backstab every single npc too. Hey, since everyone's so sex obsessed in the other threads, maybe even give your partner the classic Fallout 2 Pimpin' treatment as the amoral cherry on top!

 

[lelxrv]

The Witcher 3 had plenty of nuanced not so decent persons. Wild Hunt was more like force of nature, but there were many others, that were clever, dangerous and often sympathetic.

I'm calm about bad guys in Cyberpunk. CDPR has one of the best teams of writers in the business right now.

 

[Kyrinael]

I agree with the fact that W3 went to more generic way the main villain-wise, that being Eredin and his closest minions. However, it did not bug me because in W3's side quests there we so many interesting characters that stole the show more than often.

Knowing Cyberpunk as a setting, I am expecting even more of these "side villains" to steal the show but at the same time, I hope the main villain will be more charismatic character. Who knows, maybe the main villain will be different, depending on the choices you make on your way to fame as mercenary in CP2077, that's not an impossible thought either. And the fact that CP2077 is about building V's personal story should avoid the usual "save the world" vibe overall.

 

[kofeiiniturpa]

I'd rather not have a specific villain. I'd want that and whether or not there is one during a runthrough to be determined by how I play.

That said, I do want multidimensional characters, so who ever turns out to be "my" villain is an interesting and nuanced personality... and remains so also when s/he is not an adversary.

 

[Kyrinael]

I'd rather not have a specific villain. I'd want that and whether or not there is one during a runthrough to be determined by how I play.

That said, I do want multidimensional characters, so who ever turns out to be "my" villain is an interesting and nuanced personality... and remains so also when s/he is not an adversary.

Now that you mention this, would make a lot of sense as well. I wouldn't mind seeing this either and it would be pretty much perfect fit into the Cyberpunk setting.

 

[Hoplite_22]

Given the nature of CP, it not being about a "hero" but just trying to survive, calling some one the villian doesn't seem very likely. antagonist maybe.

 

[PrincessCiri]

Psh, Letho wasn't a villain. He was a misunderstood teddy bear who just happened to have a passion for decapitation.

Def agree with this Letho just needed a hug <3

To the thread topic:
I think open world games usually suffer from weak antagonists, unfortunately. TW3's Eredin was.... I mean he was there doing his thing but when you think about all the great things in the Witcher 3, Eredin is really not near the top of that list. The villains you met along the way (those ugly witch ladies, yeugh) you had more of a chance to get to know and interact with, so they had a much stronger impact.
In open world RPGs you usually don't get a chance to see much of the main villain because they're the Big Bad Guy who does damage to you from afar and makes things annoying but you don't actually have much to do with them personally until the climax where you get a boss fight and then walk off into the sunset.
If there's no emotional connection then the antagonist isn't usually that great. It's why Umbridge in Harry Potter is more hated than Voldemort, for example.

 

[Tuco]

All of this was lost in TW3. The Wild Hunt and Eredin were generic villains. I'.

I mean, sure... if we are going to pretend all the other characters didn't exist.

 

[ReptilePZ]

Eredin was not CDPR's character, Letho and Jacques were.

The story in TW3 was also a lot less grounded due to having to wrap up some of the more fantastical elements in the books, whereas CP2077 should be closer to TW2 - multiple factions, all trying to outplay one another. The elements are there for a deep, layered story. I have high hopes.

Of course, we won't know for sure until we get to play the game.

 

[227]

Whoah. Avarice is beautiful.

Thanks, Awkwardly Paraphrased Gordon Gekko, but if wanting something one doesn't have (or more of something one already has) made for a compelling villain, dog-in-the-middle-of-fetch would be the apex of villainy. Being shot by a spurned lover or something is inherently more interesting than being shot by someone who just wants your shoes.

Now, if said spurned lover also wants your shoes because she's building a replacement for you out of brooms and various pieces of your discarded clothing, that'd be interesting greed. "I want" isn't very fun without additional flavors, though.