Nvidia’s GameWorks: A double-edged sword for Witcher 3

[Scholdarr]

There are many AA modes that games can have, having TXAA as an option doesn't make it the only one. I consider it the best AA out there in terms of performance and visuals.

The best AA modes aren't even used today anymore. That's the real shame. Now we have TXAA as proprietary tech, great...

Tress FX is a pile of shit, not worth using since it can only work on 1 character.

Ok, I got it, you don't like the tech. But have fun with nvidias fur tech applied on more than one or two characters in the game. Bye, bye, FPS...

If a company like Crytek can't easily developer such things what makes you think CDPR can? Crytek having hundreds of employees by the way.

Of course Crytek could develop it on their own. They already did so in the past. They are just greedy guys and gladly take the money and work others present to them. That's the simple truth.

You can, but there's no good valid reason to not use Gameworks.

Of course there is: staying neutral and don't favor any specific group on PC. You might not take that as a "valid" reason but I do. Proprietary tech should die ASAP anyway. It's not helping PC gaming and PC gamers in any way.

Costs? Sorry DRM is one thing, using technologies that are hardware specific has nothing to do with morality.

Almost everything you do or decide in life has a moral element. You might not see it but that's your problem. Personally, I don't have ANY problem with DRM like the one used by Steam. I don't think that DRM is a bigger moral problem than using proprietary tech. It's that simple.

Right now? There's 2 games with Mantle and with 1 TressFX.

Battlefield 4
Thief
Tomb Raider
Murdered Soul Suspect
Stardock's new engine/game
Star Citizen possibly will use Mantle
...

But this is ot a penis lenght comparison anyway. Point is that there is this whole battle of GPU manufacturers is not good for the customers. Or do you want to have two GPUs in the future, one for games made specifically for nvidia tech and one specifically made for AMD tech to have the best possible experience? I certainly don't....

 

[mavowar]

How about staying classy for a start? There is no need to yell at me just because you seem to disagree with my post/opinion. I neither complain nor am I an "AMD shill". I just discuss a topic here. If you're not able to participate in a discussion in a reasonble manner please stay away and don't derail the topic...

AMD reacted because there were many complaints on the net and they seemed to take the chance to attack nvidia (which was more or less pretty stupid. That doesn't mean that there are solid statistics that the game runs poorly on AMD tech in general. Serious benchmarks don't support that claim. And my personal experience with the game doesn't support that as well. But it seems that too many people just don't know how to use a PC anymore. It's not a plug-and-play device like a console. You have to find the right settings working for your system, updating your drivers regularly, searching for the ideal configuration. If you're able to do that you won't have any problems in most games which is also the case for Watch_Dogs.

Classy? You may want to look in the mirror. Classy people can admit when they are wrong. Something you have not done yet in this thread. You made a claim I debunked it with links.

Also, I never yell in real life or on the interwebz. See now you are backing off claiming AMD made a mistake but your first posts were of a different nature. Your statements sound like something an AMD shill would say. Such as "proprietary" is bad "Open" is good" Well if open was so good guess What AMD would be rolling in the money. Instead they are on the brink of collapse. Yet Nvidia has Billions in the bank. They also command 60 plus percent of the market and gaining. AMD is losing market share.

Also, if AMD was so open Mantle would be open. It is not. Show me the code freely distributed some where? guess what you can't. You are one of those people who are "always" right but when presented with facts you pull the ole' You make choices in life and they all have moral consequences , if you fail to see that BLAH BLAH BLAH. Facts are facts, Open is not better most of the time. In some cases yes it works. If you want to drive technology forward there has to be a reward for those willing to take the risks to drive it further. Hence that whole "profit" thingy open loving types dislike.

You have your AMD. I will gladly pay a fair price for Nvidia like I have since I stopped using AMD products in 2008. Now If AMD gets off their butts and start to honestly compete with Intel and Nvidia Fairly once again. I might be Inclined to buy their product again.

 

[dragonbird]

Calm down everyone pls, this doesn't really help.

 

[Scholdarr]

Classy? You may want to look in the mirror. Classy people can admit when they are wrong. Something you have not done yet in this thread. You made a claim I debunked it with links.

Also, I never yell in real life or on the interwebz. See now you are backing off claiming AMD made a mistake but your first posts were of a different nature. Your statements sound like something an AMD shill would say. Such as "proprietary" is bad "Open" is good" Well if open was so good guess What AMD would be rolling in the money. Instead they are on the brink of collapse. Yet Nvidia has Billions in the bank. They also command 60 plus percent of the market and gaining. AMD is losing market share.

Also, if AMD was so open Mantle would be open. It is not. Show me the code freely distributed some where? guess what you can't. You are one of those people who are "always" right but when presented with facts you pull the ole' You make choices in life and they all have moral consequences , if you fail to see that BLAH BLAH BLAH. Facts are facts, Open is not better most of the time. In some cases yes it works. If you want to drive technology forward there has to be a reward for those willing to take the risks to drive it further. Hence that whole "profit" thingy open loving types dislike.

You have your AMD. I will gladly pay a fair price for Nvidia like I have since I stopped using AMD products in 2008. Now If AMD gets off their butts and start to honestly compete with Intel and Nvidia Fairly once again. I might be Inclined to buy their product again.

I never argued pro AMD here...that wasn't the point of anything I wrote and my first posts weren't of any different nature. But I don't care what you think anyway. I just don't want to talk with you anymore since you don't seem to have any real interest in a reasonable discussion.

 

[Scheuk]

Lord Crash if watch dogs plays so good an AMD GPU then what in the hell is AMD and all the AMD paid shills on line complaining about. So you just debunked yourself. Game works does not cause a problem with AMD hardware Awesome!!!! Glad yo can admit it!!!! Now stop complaining.

Better to keep quiet if you have nothing to contribute.

Calm down everyone pls, this doesn't really help.

A clarification from the devs would be for the best.

 

[mavowar]

I never argued pro AMD here...that wasn't the point of anything I wrote and my first posts weren't of any different nature. But I don't care what you think anyway. I just don't want to talk with you anymore since you don't seem to have any real interest in a reasonable discussion.

Facts are unreasonable eh? You are most certainly "Pro" AMD Which in all honesty I could care less. You do not have to say the Words" I am an AVID AMD supporter" for me to know you are one. Call me a veteran of PC gaming. Been PC gaming for over 30 years and one thing I know to be fact when somebody starts talking about how "open" amd is and how great that is. I know that person is pushing the AMD agenda. I gave facts as to why AMD is not so great and that they are not open as many claim. So if you want to have a real discussion I am open to that. Debate is Great . However I do not debate with any body who claims "open" is always better. Facts prove otherwise. In some Instances an Open stance is fine. Things are stagnant on PC gaming. I applaud both Nvidia and Amd efforts to push PC gaming forward. I think Mantle is a great Idea overall. If gives AMD a viable reason for the consumer to purchase an AMD card. What I think would be stupid is for AMD to make it an "open" platform. AMD needs an edge if they want to compete with Intel and Nvidia. I was contemplating buying an all AMD rig since 2008 as a result. If they give Mantle to everybody what incentive do I as a consumer have left to purchase AMD products? Price is unimportant to me for the most part. I would rather save up longer to have better products and better driver support. So, again AMD needs to stop trying to the savior of "Souls" and start saving it's own ass. Proprietary works. Killer features drive the market and create growth for a company. Now other wise I will take this time to apologize if I seemed a lil aggressive. I frequent some sites that get a lil rowdy from time to time. I tend forget that this place has better quality people than the tech sites I tend to participate in. If you truly want to debate the subject I welcome it.

 

[mavowar]

Better to keep quiet if you have nothing to contribute.


A clarification from the devs would be for the best.

Hmmm......oh man......what did you contribute with this post? Also the mods on this site are great and do an excellent job. If I or anybody else gets"rowdy" they let us know, both in the post and with a PM. Since you are not a mod here please refrain from trying to be one. Thank you. Have a blessed day.

 

[Septerra_Core]

I will buy a NVIDIA card just to be sure Probably a GTX770

 

[Scheuk]

Hmmm......oh man......what did you contribute with this post? Also the mods on this site are great and do an excellent job. If I or anybody else gets"rowdy" they let us know, both in the post and with a PM. Since you are not a mod here please refrain from trying to be one. Thank you. Have a blessed day.

All you've done in this thread is accuse people of being AMD marketers or make claims about how Nvidia is better than AMD. I do not care for that. As an AMD card owner, I want to know if this game won't be gimped or unoptimized for my system, before I put down money for a pre-order.

 

[chiefje]

I will buy a NVIDIA card just to be sure Probably a GTX770

No offense, but this is what I am most worried about. I just want to play the game while it is at its best, and if TW3 with gameworks runs better on Nvidia cards (which it probably does) then I will technically be forced to buy Nvidia. Then comes along another game that has mantle (which might run a lot better on AMD hardware, you never know) and I'm stuck with Nvidia...

This shit will be creating a sort of split between games, that can't be good if you ask me...

 

[Septerra_Core]

No offense, but this is what I am most worried about. I just want to play the game while it is at its best, and if TW3 with gameworks runs better on Nvidia cards (which it probably does) then I will technically be forced to buy Nvidia. Then comes along another game that has mantle (which might run a lot better on AMD hardware, you never know) and I'm stuck with Nvidia...

This shit will be creating a sort of split between games, that can't be good if you ask me...

Yeah it may will, but since I give money to AMD all my life I think I have the right to help NVIDIA too.
Also, I don't believe that in extreme graphics cards the visual difference of games which are optimized for either one of two vendors will make the games unpleasant if you don't own the one which the game is optimized for..
And last but not least, nott all the people go crazy buying games who are optimized like that. I for example play only 2 games. One is the Witcher and the other is Starcraft

 

[archaven]

I just upgraded my graphics card from Nvidia to AMD R9 290. This sounds like bad news. CDPR please don't side with either one. Please stay neutral. That is what i like about you.

 

[Scheuk]

Yeah it may will, but since I give money to AMD all my life I think I have the right to help NVIDIA too.
Also, I don't believe that in extreme graphics cards the visual difference of games which are optimized for either one of two vendors will make the games unpleasant if you don't own the one which the game is optimized for..
And last but not least, nott all the people go crazy buying games who are optimized like that. I for example play only 2 games. One is the Witcher and the other is Starcraft

These are corporates we are talking about, I'd recommend not basing your purchasing decisions for the express purpose of 'helping them', just choose whichever product seems best. Secondly, it's high end cards suffering from performance issues is far more common than you think, take a look at the links I put in the OP, and those are just for the games that use Nvidia Gameworks, the same as Witcher 3.

 

[Elegast7]

I just upgraded my graphics card from Nvidia to AMD R9 290. This sounds like bad news. CDPR please don't side with either one. Please stay neutral. That is what i like about you.

Stay neutral? So they shouldn't add tech because you can't fully run it? Seems a little selfish.

 

[Scheuk]

Stay neutral? So they shouldn't add tech because you can't fully run it? Seems a little selfish.

That isn't how technology works. When they use Nvidia's proprietary tech and services, they make it difficult for the game to be optimized for AMD platforms. They could always come up with the tech themselves if they so wished it, or use ones open source. I'd venture to say that it's devs who use proprietary technology that favors one manufacturer over the other, is what's selfish. AMD cards can render moving hair, particle effects and physics just as well as Nvidia cards, but that becomes hard to do when Nvidia keeps its tech under lock and key, ensuring that games can not even be optimized well enough for AMD cards.

 

[Elegast7]

That isn't how technology works. When they use Nvidia's proprietary tech and services, they make it difficult for the game to be optimized for AMD platforms. They could always come up with the tech themselves if they so wished it, or use ones open source. I'd venture to say that it's devs who use proprietary technology that favors one manufacturer over the other, is what's selfish. AMD cards can render moving hair, particle effects and physics just as well as Nvidia cards, but that becomes hard to do when Nvidia keeps its tech under lock and key, ensuring that games can not even be optimized well enough for AMD cards.

So AMD can do the same as nvidia and it can be optimzed perfectly on nvidia cards? If so, then indeed you are right.

 

[Scheuk]

So AMD can do the same as nvidia and it can be optimzed perfectly on nvidia cards? If so, then indeed you are right.

What? That doesn't make any sense.

 

[Elegast7]

What? That doesn't make any sense.

Dude, I just replaced the word Nvidia with AMD. The argument was that if you're an AMD-card owner you are at a disadvantage because the nvidia tech won't run good on those. You replied that 'AMD cards can render moving hair, particle effects and physics just as well as Nvidia'. I said then, if you can optimize amd tech on nvidia-cards better than you can optimize nvidia tech on amd cards then you would be right.
Is it understandable now?

 

[Scheuk]

Dude, I just replaced the word Nvidia with AMD. The argument was that if you're an AMD-card owner you are at a disadvantage because the nvidia tech won't run good on those. You replied that 'AMD cards can render moving hair, particle effects and physics just as well as Nvidia'. I said then, if you can optimize amd tech on nvidia-cards better than you can optimize nvidia tech on amd cards then you would be right.
Is it understandable now?

You do realize that games don't have to use either one of the proprietary teach and services, right? That isn't what this thread is about, no one is asking them to switch over to AMD instead of Nvidia, I just don't want to be given the short end of the stick because CDP is using proprietary services like Gameworks.

 

[Elegast7]

You do realize that games don't have to use either one of the proprietary teach and services, right? That isn't what this thread is about, no one is asking them to switch over to AMD instead of Nvidia, I just don't to be given the short end of the stick just because CDP is using proprietary services like Gameworks.

You are right about that, but that wasn't why I responded. The difference is that I believe that cpdr will do a lot to release the game with the best graphics they can. If they think Nvidia can deliver that, they wil use their tech. And (to what is was originally responding) they shouldn't abandon that because someone doesn't has the right graphics card.