Obvious Downgrade

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Reptile, are you proving your point by posting a gif. You know how She feels about that.

When I look at that I am like what more do you want!? I can't think of another game on the market that even comes close to how good the witcher 3 is looking. Except maybe Batman Arkham Knight, FF 15, or Metal Gear Solid 5. Still none of those have released any footage of anything close to their final builds yet.
 
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When I look at that I am like what more do you want!? I can't think of another game on the market that even comes close to how good the witcher 3 is looking.

True, but it is also the last one. There is no next time.

People still need to remember most rpgs have similar issues; they need to keep criticism within the genres inherant limits.
 
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It's just sad to see how after such a fantastic video from CDPR we are once again discussing this dead thread where we pick random screenshots and do pixel-search over them. Fuck this. Seriously, the latest Hands-On video showed how much the game has imrproved since we saw it last, whether it's the beautiful graphics or fluid animations - everything looked gorgeous. Yet people are still complaining about little things that makes little to no impact for the game.

How about you all just chill and trust CDPR, or ATLEAST wait for Monday's stream to get a better glimpse on the game. Jeez...
 
As far as I see and read, the downgrade claims aren't well backed. The holy grail trailers everyone seems to love have scenes that look terribly worse than the scenes praised over and over.

I even heard that the animations from VGX were better than anything we've seen before, and then they show the extended combat section in the "dev diaries" and its hilariously bad compared to the current showings of the game.

I think people worried about the graphics should try to understand that "quality" isnt some kind of precise number or amount you can count and compare, inside what makes a game's looks are many things separate from the technical aspects, such as pure art design, which unlike in the real world also tweaks the lightning and how it affects objects, the camera, the colours, naturally the time of the day, what specific clouds were blocking and/or allowing light in the scene, and post processing effects which get changed a lot.

I see many posts trying to argue the quality is inferior now, and when someone shows them its not, they start picking on what was saturation like before, contrast, etc. The overall look of the game, whether its now worse or better or the same, can change but not ALWAYS because of a downgrade, the devs tweak the game, just like I tweak my paintings for dozens of hours, and we end up with different results that we dont necessarily consider inferior, what the artists want and think is appropriate changes as the project goes on, especially during years, and in addition to this of course, a game is something extremely dynamic, you likely will never see the same exact scene again but in different versions or playthroughs.

If I have to talk about the village for example, what makes it look great is very very clear at least to me:

- The wind effects and the things flying, which differ according to the wind simulation the game has, and what place are you seeing.
- Everything moves, again, because of the wind, but also many animals and the windmills and the child all combined.
- The sharpening filter, it makes everything look so detailed you cannot properly tell whats the detail of the actual textures without the filter, additionally, that filter makes things "vibrate", which also creates more movement, and allows you to see detail from the textures you would only notice from up close without the filter.
- The shadow from the tree to the left covers half the image and naturally, because of the wind, it moves and makes everything have more depth and volume by blocking direct flat sunlight, otherwise the kid and the house and cart would look just as flat as the woman to the right, or the house to the right, or anything else to the right actually. Pay attention of course to the fact that the leaves flying are illuminated against that same shadow, which makes an excellent contrast you wouldn't see otherwise.

My personal opinion is that while some previous footage of the game looks better to me than most of what we get these days, thats because of very special characteristics of the scenes, not because of the graphics quality, I cannot possibly ignore some things missing from new footage that would make a comparison more apt, like the wind in the village and the dusk light in the swamps of VGX which we never saw ever again in any footage. For example people liked to compared that to the swamps from johnny but they are not even the same, because the one from the demo has a blue/gray mist that blocks light not allowing strong contrast to be made, and that was recorded during noon or afternoon, where sunlight has less colour.

Point is im not saying its downgraded or not, but im saying the footage we were given has key differences that make it impossible to judge somewhat accurately how the graphics have changed. I've said it already, to me the game now looks worse than before, but why? because we didnt see the same things, thats why, not because the same things as before are now of lower quality or downgraded, and if you are worried about the graphics, as you should be because its an important aspect, at least admit we cannot make a truly fair comparison, its pure logic. Exaggerations like saying a downgrade is confirmed, or its obvious, or its clear, or that you have evidence are just useless rage and attempts to create conflict.

I prefer to deal with what makes sense and seems rational, and in this case that means to realize that too much from the previous footage is entirely missing in the new footage, and thus any comparison is a major stretch. The only thing we can do, is hope CDPR releases footage that showcase the game's graphics better, and that some of that is actually comparable to the previous footage, as things are right now its way too different.
 
It's just sad to see how after such a fantastic video from CDPR we are once again discussing this dead thread where we pick random screenshots and do pixel-search over them. Fuck this. Seriously, the latest Hands-On video showed how much the game has imrproved since we saw it last, whether it's the beautiful graphics or fluid animations - everything looked gorgeous. Yet people are still complaining about little things that makes little to no impact for the game.

How about you all just chill and trust CDPR, or ATLEAST wait for Monday's stream to get a better glimpse on the game. Jeez...

I think we all need to chill.

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This thread is active again?

I'm pretty sure the new gameplay is from the Xbox One, guys. Xbox button prompts everywhere, deliberate shots showing Xbox controllers or Xbox Ones in many live action shots. Despite the fact that they did play on every platform, the Xbox One was the star of this video. I'm wondering if it's part of a deal they have with MS to show Xbox One in some videos. Even The WItcher twitter only posted 1 picture of the game and it was the Xbox One.
 
First off, I'd like to admit my ignorance of game development and the fact that I don't have the sharpest eye for graphics. So if anything I say is inaccurate feel free to let me know (in a friendly manner please:respect:). Allow me to give my opinion on the situation.

Tl DR: I have no idea what I'm on about but I'm going to waffle on anyways:smiling:

My opinion is that It's not fair to make definitive judgements at this point, but I'm inclined to think there has been no downgrade. What we saw in 2013 was clips of gameplay lasting 1 or 2 seconds in the first couple of trailers. It seems to me that the graphics weren't finalized yet and so CDPR were very selective with what they showed off. Even I can see that, although they looked really good, there were some elements that looked worse than they do now (such as hair and faces), but also things that looked better (at least to me). The stuff that looked worse have obviously now been improved as the game has been developed. As for the things that looked better, well I'm not sure to be honest. Maybe there was a downgrade or maybe they only chose footage that was more flattering to the game (it is a trailer after all). We also seem to generally believe they used filters in order to make the game look better. So in my mind It's pointless comparing stuff to back then because it's so Different (note: not necessarily worse)

Really I don't think it's fair to compare Gameplay with trailers in general. In a trailer there going to show the best parts of the game It's very hard to then reach that quality in footage taken straight out of the game. Having said that though I really don't think that the gameplay demo looked THAT much worse than the sword of destiny trailer. And I think, except for a few people most people didn't really express any worry of a downgrade at that point.

Now what about the notorious Elder blood trailer. To me it was obvious what they showed us in that was far worse than anything we'd seen before. This was when there was actually something to the downgrade claims. I mean, a trailer that looks worse than the last bit of gameplay we were shown? Yeah, that's a cause for concern. CDPR denied that there was a downgrade however and claimed that the trailer was rushed out. @TheEvilChris claimed it was due to Youtube compression IIRC. From what I can tell however, that wasn't the only reason it looked worse. I'm not saying He deliberately lied to us though, I don't know if he knows that much about exactly what happened because He's not actually working on the game. So it could've simply been a communication error. As I've said I'm really just speculating here but at the time we had no way of knowing if there was a downgrade or if it really was just rushed for VGA's.

As for the newest hands on footage, We can't really use it to judge either. The main reason being We've had know conformation as to which platform It's on. Also some of the feature were disabled because it's not optimized yet. One things for sure though, it looks much better than the elder blood trailer which makes me think that it (the elder blood trailer, that is) was rushed as CDPR claimed.

So I've made my point... I think. Anyway, congrats if you made it through that load of nonsense, you officially just wasted a minute and a half of your life :hatsoff:

As far as I see and read, the downgrade claims aren't well backed. The holy grail trailers everyone seems to love have scenes that look terribly worse than the scenes praised over and over.

Yes, this. I haven't read your whole post yet but I have noticed that whilst some scenes looked really good others didn't look to much better than W2 in some respects. I think CDPR did a very good job at flattering the game by picking only the best footage and clever usage of filters. If there's a problem here then it's that they made the trailers look to good. not that there was an actual downgrade.
 
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I have no problem with the graphics as they are now, but the Witcher generated a lot of hype in the last 2 years thanks in large part to amazing graphics seen in the trailers. If the final game doesn't match those, it's dishonest marketing and should be called out. That might sound like a big accusation but it has been very common in the industry lately. CDPR might be better than most but they're not above criticism.

I don't know if there has been a downgrade or not. However, lets assume that there was a downgrade, which means that it can be one of two conclusions:

1. CDPR is being deliberately malicious and anti-consumer. For me, this is very hard to believe when the company has worked very hard over the last decade to build trust and goodwill with consumers. And that is still very much apart of the W3 marketing, no other major studio is anywhere close to them in that regard. It also seems strange that they would show off an allegedly "downgraded" version of the game over a year in advance. If the intent was to mislead us, then I imagine they'd do a much better job of hiding it.

OR

2. CDPR's vision was a little too ambitious and certain things had to be scaled back to meet performance goals. I don't see anything wrong with a situation like this. Its an honest regression that makes the game more enjoyable to play. This is a young studio working on the largest project in its history, its their first open world game, and their first multiplatform release. So its absolutely feasible that they were a little high in the clouds and overshot what could be pulled off in an open world. Which is fine, its great that developers have that level of ambition.

If you really believe its conclusion number 1 then you should continue creating awareness and letting folks know how slimely they are. If you think its conclusion number 2, then it really isn't a big deal and you should cut them some slack. In fact, number 2 doesn't even mean that the game has been downgraded, it just means that some of the more intensive effects probably won't receive the same optimization and are reserved for super high end PCs that can brute force them, similar to Uber Sampling in W2.
 
It could both those things. Their vision was too ambitious and then they lied to people. They said over and over again that the game would look significantly better at launch. Well here we are just 3 months before launch where they say the game is completed and the game looks considerably worse in terms of technical graphics then the VGX trailer and even the better parts of sword of destiny.
 
You know at this stage I think it can be safely said that the CDPR fanbase has become as bad as the Blizzard one if that's the reaction to someone giving criticism over the downgrade.
 
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Still my favorite gif from the game, simply stunning! And nah, swamp in the demo didn't look nearly as good as this. Hopefully it's just the lighting (i.e. time of the day).
I'm pessimistic about that, the swamp detail in the demo wasn't nearly as sharp, the lighting wasn't as dynamic and the feel was just off compared to this glorious scene
 
I don't know if there has been a downgrade or not. However, lets assume that there was a downgrade, which means that it can be one of two conclusions:

1. CDPR is being deliberately malicious and anti-consumer. For me, this is very hard to believe when the company has worked very hard over the last decade to build trust and goodwill with consumers. And that is still very much apart of the W3 marketing, no other major studio is anywhere close to them in that regard. It also seems strange that they would show off an allegedly "downgraded" version of the game over a year in advance. If the intent was to mislead us, then I imagine they'd do a much better job of hiding it.

OR

2. CDPR's vision was a little too ambitious and certain things had to be scaled back to meet performance goals. I don't see anything wrong with a situation like this. Its an honest regression that makes the game more enjoyable to play. This is a young studio working on the largest project in its history, its their first open world game, and their first multiplatform release. So its absolutely feasible that they were a little high in the clouds and overshot what could be pulled off in an open world. Which is fine, its great that developers have that level of ambition.

If you really believe its conclusion number 1 then you should continue creating awareness and letting folks know how slimely they are. If you think its conclusion number 2, then it really isn't a big deal and you should cut them some slack. In fact, number 2 doesn't even mean that the game has been downgraded, it just means that some of the more intensive effects probably won't receive the same optimization and are reserved for super high end PCs that can brute force them, similar to Uber Sampling in W2.

Well even if it is conclusion 1 I wouldn't go so far as to call it malicious since it's pretty much standard nowadays to exaggerate the visuals as sad as that is. Also, even though I think there should be nothing wrong in discussing this, I do find it sad that this seems to be the most active thread at the moment.
 
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You know at this stage I think it can be safely said that the CDPR fanbase has become as bad as the Blizzard one if that's the reaction to someone giving criticism over the downgrade.

Criticism is needed in anything but it needs to be respectful and on point. Seen a fair amount of mindless swearing.

I admit that i am on the fence i can't say one way or the other yet.
 
Well even if it is conclusion 1 I wouldn't go so far as to call it malicious since it's pretty much standard nowadays to exaggerate the visuals as sad as that is. Also, even though I think there should be nothing wrong in discussing this, I do find it sad that this seems to be the most active thread at the moment.
Why? isn't it important to discuss whether CDPR mislead its costumers?
 
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