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Obvious Downgrade

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C

caruga

Rookie
#2,541
Jan 27, 2015
Delnac said:
I think we are all starting to sound like broken records at this point. The core of the issue for me is twofold :

- The engine in the VGX trailer clearly showed a volumetric quality to its lighting. It added depth and atmosphere. The skin also didn't look as flat as the recent screenshots, it seems that some form of screen-space subsurface scattering has been removed. My hope is that those features are locked behind the Ultra settings as they no doubt will prove very memory and computation-expensive.

- Every single time that the words "platform parity" have been uttered, it has been synonymous with lazy PC port and political statements in favour of the consoles. Because piracy or whatever. You guys know first-hand how bullshit this is. You created gog. You are giving 16 DLCs away for free. You provided support for TW2 for more than a year after its release. You released TW2 without DRM in the face of your own publisher. You did and still get how to do things right. You have shown guts and vision before kickstarter even came along to prove everyone wrong.

So hearing these words come out of a CDProjekt lead is, to say the least, very scary if true. You guys used to be the poster child for PC development, showing for the first time in a while all the untapped power of the platform. I understand the point you make regarding manpower and engineering complexity. But providing higher resolution assets, various object draw distances and giving us the choice to melt our rigs in the fashion we desire doesn't sound too difficult. This is what we want, not ubersampling or nvidia bullshit. I would understand if you pulled previous rendering techniques for stability or performance reason. No problem, this is how it goes. Things get prototyped, look good and end up in trailers. Game development happens, things break and can't be fixed with a behemoth of a game lurking over your shoulder. But you didn't tell us that, instead we got these statements that make it feel like they have been pulled away to make the consoles look good.

This doesn't sound like you guys at all, but I understand where the concerns comes from. All in all, I wish you the best and can't wait for may :).
Click to expand...
Well said.

You know they could avoid all the anxiety and speculation if, with each trailer, there was full disclosure on the configuration used, the options that are toggled on/off, etc. I can't fathom why they don't.

All in all I hope I can make the game look like the earlier trailers, even if it only runs at 10 fps on my current machine. It's if they take certain graphical options out entirely (which presents a blatant 'why?' but other devs have done it in the past) that I'll be unhappy. Heck, have a 'future PC' tickbox that unlocks a new menu, so people don't misconfigure.

If they've locked anything, I hope it's merely the trailer content from hereon. They've downgraded what you see in the trailers so that from here on out nobody can feel mislead.

It's not all negative, what I've seen in this latest footage. The major issue I had with the latest footage was a lack of tessellation on stone and brick, foliage pop-in, missing shadows on foliage, the water looked kind of mediocre (heck, I think bioshock's water looked nicer), and the blood on that slain beast looked like red paint. Other things, like the glistening water on Geralt during bathing looked amazing. The faces look excellent (but again, we were shown better flesh-tones in earlier trailers).
 
Last edited: Jan 27, 2015
G

GrimZappa

Rookie
#2,542
Jan 27, 2015
sneky said:
Adam Badowski in polish interview about this downgrade think, my english is pretty bad so u need google translate, or maybe @gregski help or someone? He is also talking about elder blood trailer.



in brief: some locations will look like best looking trailers / some not depends on many things: location, weather, time of day
Click to expand...
BS. It's just PR talk and damage control nothing more. We all seen how the game looks now and how it look on E3... details, draw distance, sheer amount and quality of grass etc all is cut in half if not more, CDPR lied just like Ubi did with watch dogs... I hope soon there will be some law against false advertising for games, especially in Poland as clearly all trailers up to last few were fakes and ware advertising game that not exist...

Way to go CDPR you just lost few (and judging by reactions on various boards thousands) customers as Me and few friends decided not to buy your game... not because it looks ugly or something but because u LIED... I remember when few years ago you said that each platform will receive best looking game for that platform and now we now it was BS and all versions look same, even PC on top of that we now even super strong PC is unable to run W3 in more then 30FPS and that is just laughable for game looking like DA:I + popup... AND YOU LIED how it will look... https://i.4cdn.org/v/1422352368287.jpg different colors of light ? lol please at least have some balls to admit its downgraded....
 
C

caruga

Rookie
#2,543
Jan 27, 2015
GrimZappa said:
BS. It's just PR talk and damage control nothing more. We all seen how the game looks now and how it look on E3... details, draw distance, sheer amount and quality of grass etc all is cut in half if not more, CDPR lied just like Ubi did with watch dogs... I hope soon there will be some law against false advertising for games, especially in Poland as clearly all trailers up to last few were fakes and ware advertising game that not exist...

Way to go CDPR you just lost few (and judging by reactions on various boards thousands) customers as Me and few friends decided not to buy your game... not because it looks ugly or something but because u LIED... I remember when few years ago you said that each platform will receive best looking game for that platform and now we now it was BS and all versions look same, even PC on top of that we now even super strong PC is unable to run W3 in more then 30FPS and that is just laughable for game looking like DA:I + popup... AND YOU LIED how it will look... https://i.4cdn.org/v/1422352368287.jpg different colors of light ? lol please at least have some balls to admit its downgraded....
Click to expand...
I'm not so sure. It's quite possible that they have some kind of adaptive graphics settings, that turns certain things on and off depending on the complexity of the scene. If they have such a feature, then I hope they make that, too, optional, so you can have everything switched on everywhere if you want, and suffer the frame-rate dips if they occur.

The main thing that makes me concerned, is that you'd think if they had the power to lay fears to rest, they would have done so by now.
 
Last edited: Jan 27, 2015
D

delnac.723

Forum regular
#2,544
Jan 27, 2015
caruga said:
Well said.

You know they could avoid all the anxiety and speculation if, with each trailer, there was full disclosure on the configuration used, the options that are toggled on/off, etc. I can't fathom why they don't. [...]
Click to expand...
Thank you for the kind words. I agree that it's not all negative, a lot of progress has been made. The movement overall looks a lot more fluid, the animations don't stutter like they seemed to and combat looks like the intense death dance it always was.

GrimZappa said:
https://i.4cdn.org/v/1422352368287.jpg
Click to expand...
I don't agree with your tone nor aggressivity, but your link has merit. Despite the obvious youtube compression making nobody any favour, It looks almost as if HDR got lost somewhere along the way or that their entire atmospheric light scattering changed. The gamersyde video confirms this. There is a whole dynamic range of colours oddly missing. Or maybe not and this is a time of day/scene configuration thing again.
 
Last edited: Jan 27, 2015
G

GrimZappa

Rookie
#2,545
Jan 27, 2015
Oh just look at the screens I linked, especially the one with Griff difference is massive its almost like running on some other engine...

But don't misunderstand Me the game still looks nice but thats not the point here, point is false advertising. Im just fed up with that and did not expect that from CDPR...

Iv played games for all My life and Im no longer someone You can call young, Iv seen some serious @@@@ in gaming industry but nowadays almost every company just pisses on gamers with PR and low quality buggy mess of a games, CDPR was sort of light of hope in that falling gaming world and now they just did what made them different from sort of Ubi and EA so yeah Im angry and disappointed so my tone is what it is... I live like 30 minutes car ride from CDPR Warsaw and I just really want go there and piss on their doors since i feel like they pissed on me :)
 
Last edited: Jan 27, 2015
A

Alastre

Senior user
#2,546
Jan 27, 2015
What sounds strange is that with all this mess about the downgrade (and this time after an hand's on and not a taser trailer) is the silece of the CDPR...tell us something please! :)
 
E

erxv

Rookie
#2,547
Jan 27, 2015
DONT compare gameplay to screenshots or trailers......

the first GAMEPLAY we got was E3 Microsoft Press Conference, then the next was pretty much the 37 min demo... THAT was GAMEPLAY (with HUD and all that other stuff), thats what GAMEPLAY means, showing how the game will look like when YOU actually PLAY it.....
and looking at that gameplay, the game looks as good or even better now.....

GAMEPLAY is not some random footage with random camera angles and no HUD......

in contrast, watch_dogs had the first 10 min GAMEPLAY, and that looked nothing like the final game, that was a clear downgrade....

learn the damn difference between GAMEPLAY and TRAILER
 
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K

Kretek

Forum veteran
#2,548
Jan 27, 2015
GrimZappa said:
Oh just look at the screens I linked, especially the one with Griff difference is massive its almost like running on some other engine...

But don't misunderstand Me the game still looks nice but thats not the point here, point is false advertising. Im just fed up with that and did not expect that from CDPR...
Click to expand...
Yeah, that screen with griffin is inflicting deepest wounds. Similar to you I think that game still look great. And it is obvious that no one would be whining now about graphics if they didnt promised us miracles on a stick. I really dont want to kick wounded friend but I also dont want to say it is raining when someone is pissing on me. Oh, and btw. Hello /v/.
 
M

MikeKing

Senior user
#2,549
Jan 27, 2015
If somebody from downgrade group actually bothered to make screenshot comparison from direct footage and not horribly compressed youtube videos then this comparisons could actually have some merit.

But I guess that would diminished their point so that is not actually gonna happen.
 
Last edited: Jan 27, 2015
K

Kretek

Forum veteran
#2,550
Jan 27, 2015
erxv said:
DONT compare gameplay to screenshots or trailers......

the first GAMEPLAY we got was E3 Microsoft Press Conference, then the next was pretty much the 37 min demo... THAT was GAMEPLAY (with HUD and all that other stuff), thats what GAMEPLAY means, showing how the game will look like when YOU actually PLAY it.....
and looking at that gameplay, the game looks as good or even better now.....

GAMEPLAY is not some random footage with random camera angles and no HUD......

in contrast, watch_dogs had the first 10 min GAMEPLAY, and that looked nothing like the final game, that was a clear downgrade....

learn the damn difference between GAMEPLAY and TRAILER
Click to expand...
Oh ryly? Key sentence here: "In-game footage". Many of developers are making same thing. Im calling them on their bullshit every time. I will call also CDP no matter how much I like them.
 
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G

GrimZappa

Rookie
#2,551
Jan 27, 2015
panaceum said:
Y if they didnt promised us miracles on a stick. I really dont want to kick wounded friend but I also dont want to say it is raining when someone is pissing on me. Oh, and btw. Hello /v/.
Click to expand...
Yeah if they showed the game as its is there would be no problem, everyone would be happy with it looks, but no they had to go AAA Pro Dev style on us....
 
A

Alastre

Senior user
#2,552
Jan 27, 2015
Still have some faith though...


I mean those screen are from TW2 Uber...ok it's uber and it was meant for PC only but...God the vegetation and the ground looks almost real!



And we are talking of a game of 4 years ago...really they can't do the same? (before you kill me, yes i know it wasn't an open world game! :) )
 
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K

Kretek

Forum veteran
#2,553
Jan 27, 2015
Isendur said:
If somebody from downgrade group actually Bothered to make screenshot comparison from direct footage and not horribly compressed youtube videos then this comparisons could actually have some merit.

But I guess that would diminished their point so that is not actually gonna happen.
Click to expand...
You kidding? Are you blind? You dont have to have uncompressed version to see downgrade. Just go and watch last gameplay on youtube. At the end there is old trailer. Now compare both. You still dont see it? If not I will gladly made some screenshot from uncompressed version for you. But later :D.

I just thought about something. Remember how ubisoft hide some graphic options in code of PC version of Watch Dogs? You could enable them by changing just one line of code. Game would look much, much better then and even run better. Hmmm. Maybe Reds will also leave those "PC/who cares" option hidden in code for us? :)
 
Last edited: Jan 27, 2015
A

AngusMacAskill.464

Forum regular
#2,554
Jan 27, 2015
They hyped the game too much with this. People remember. If they don't deliver the game from the initial trailer which, to be sure, was astonishingly polished and beautiful, then the people will and should be angry and will and should demand a refund, no matter how good the gameplay or story is.

Outright false advertisement is actually punishable by law. I can only hope CDPRED delivers. If they do not they deserve the outcry from their consumers.
 
Adamastor

Adamastor

Senior user
#2,555
Jan 27, 2015
i have been playing videogames since 1982 i remember back the good old times when final version of games had better graphics then the develop videos or screenshots, nowadays seems this ideology is lost for marketing sake :(
maybe some things they had to cut for the game to run smooth we don´t know, its weird because some things looked far more improved since last screens , other far worse.

one thing i know this is will be the end version of the graphics we will see in final release don´t spect to see major chances in game engine, they only have 2 months to correct small bugs or small graphics like the brick wall.

for me its fine as it is :)
 
D

djmedvedd

Rookie
#2,556
Jan 27, 2015
No problem, here some uncompressed comparsion
And here some VGX and E3 trailers (all this trailers have "in-game footage sign"
 
Sagitarii

Sagitarii

Mentor
#2,557
Jan 27, 2015
One can dream.

 
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S

Shiski.344

Rookie
#2,558
Jan 27, 2015
bombeyboxx said:
No problem, here some uncompressed comparsion
And here some VGX and E3 trailers (all this trailers have "in-game footage sign"
Click to expand...
lel that horse
 
ReptilePZ

ReptilePZ

Wordrunner
#2,559
Jan 27, 2015
Since we're doing comparisons, how about we compare similar scenes from this "mindblowingly better" VGX trailer and the current in-game shots.

I've taken the liberty to add an image of the new footage with a simple blue filter over it (as you can see by the colour of the YT video bar), so that only graphical fidelity can be compared, rather than subjective aesthetic differences.

Comparison 1






Comparison 2






The only real difference, aside from the colour filter (a purely aesthetic choice) is less bloom and motion blur, i.e. very cheap effects that have been tweaked a little.
 
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J

Jimbob_2.1

Rookie
#2,560
Jan 27, 2015
AngusMacAskill said:
They hyped the game too much with this. People remember. If they don't deliver the game from the initial trailer which, to be sure, was astonishingly polished and beautiful, then the people will and should be angry and will and should demand a refund, no matter how good the gameplay or story is.
Click to expand...
You can always cancel your preorder they've already said that. If you have doubts as to the quality of the game then by all means do this. As to a refund comes out, their is a refund policy on gog but if you pre order the game you only have yourself to blame. They have shown you gameplay videos. Either base your purchase on them or wait until after release and watch someone play the game on youtube. If you make your purchasing decisions passed only on a couple of trailers, then I am sorry but you only have yourself to blame. Assuming there even is a downgrade, you are already aware of it and so should wait untill release.

Now if the game looked worse than the extended gameplay videos. Then maybe I'd have some sympathy for you.
 
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