Obvious Downgrade

[GuyNwah]

Really, so why exactly does Watch Dogs look and run far superior on the PC, and t higher resolutions I might add.? And that only becomes an issue if the GPU runs out of VRAM. Only have 5.5GB total available, is an issue when it come to performance.

Probably because the game was badly implemented, first as a PC game and then ported to consoles. So it stands to reason that the secondary platform is a lousy port.

CDPR has done it the right way. One base, all platforms. That's only possible now that the difference between platforms is more quantitative than architectural.

 

[dasega]

4K Textures? Uh no, nor does any game exist that uses 4K textures throughout. Max Payne 3 had 2K textures for EVERYTHING on PC and that was 35GB because of it, it wasn't an open-world game, it wasn't extremely big, and it was 35GB. Do you really want to imagine the size of a game that uses 4K textures throughout? Not to forget the we don't have the necessary VRAM available to support such a game either.


Star Citizen?

 

[GuyNwah]

That basic fact changes nothing I've said. The consoles only have 5.5GB of memory available, max. Duplication isn't a problem when your PC is running 16GB system and 4GB VRAM. Despite Microsoft's best efforts with their shoddy API's, brute force wins the day.

Where did I say the consoles were for peasants? I'm simply pointing out, a decent PC will beat them, every time.

Duplication is always a problem when your resources must be copied. Copying takes time, interferes with other operations, and is generally not free.

 

[caruga]

Can we get to the bottom of why people are beating this dead horse?

Is it controversial at this point, that there is a decline in quality in the footage we've seen?

Here's what I've noticed:
lighting doesn't look nearly as good, shadows are basic and some are missing entirely (this is probably the major one when it comes to a subconscious feeling of realism--the old, allegedly real-time footage looked almost photorealistic at certain angles)
Poorer flesh-tones (lack of sub-surface scattering?), faces look better though in this latest footage than the Elder Blood trailer
Flat textures on surfaces, no bump-mapping/tessallation/parallax occlusion or whatever the correct term is
Water looks very basic, especially on the surface (Crysis and Bioshock have better water)
Mainly in this latest footage, the colours are garishly saturated (not really a fidelity thing, though)

There's also a lack of disclosure in trailers as to what, if anything, is pre-rendered, which could lead to further confusion or unrealistic expectations.

For instance, is the Yen on the left pre-rendered or 'touched up' in any way? The one on the right looks like it's last-gen by comparison.

It's when they talk of 'uniform draw distances across platforms', that suggests a lack of scalability and forced parity. That is what has me concerned.

Hold me to this: if the official word was that I can turn everything on and have it look like the best of what I've seen (at a price), I'll have nothing further to say.

I wonder why they haven't already reassured us. I wonder if it is because the answer is one we won't like, so they'd best say nothing.

 

[SeasonedWitcher]

Probably because the game was badly implemented, first as a PC game and then ported to consoles. So it stands to reason that the secondary platform is a lousy port.

CDPR has done it the right way. One base, all platforms. That's only possible now that the difference between platforms is more quantitative than architectural.

No, it was ported to the PC, and had to have its more advanced graphical features enabled by a third party, and still the PC trounced the consoles. So, what exactly is the name of this multi-plat game that runs an looks better on the consoles?

 

[sidspyker]

Star Citizen?

An unreleased game, one that specifically aims to be a visual spectacle FOR YEARS and targetted the 'next-next-gen' of graphical hardware so to speak, I'm not sure what you're getting at. There's also quite a difference between continuous objects needed in a world and in space.

They're not even remotely comparable, Star Citizen is not going to be playable at decent framerates while being maxed out for years, 4K? hell they plan to use 8K textures.

 

[SeasonedWitcher]

Duplication is always a problem when your resources must be copied. Copying takes time, interferes with other operations, and is generally not free.

Fair enough, so which multi-plat game runs and looks far better on consoles? In fact, which console game looks and runs far batter than the best PC game. You do realise the consoles struggle to even hit 1080p right?

 

[sidspyker]

Fair enough, so which multi-plat game runs and looks far better on consoles? In fact, which console game looks and runs far batter than the best PC game. You do realise the consoles struggle to even hit 1080p right?

You're mistaking the argument, nobody said that, all that's been said is consoles are more efficient and can extract more performance out of the same hardware compared to the PC using that exact same h/w config.

 

[SeasonedWitcher]

You're mistaking the argument, nobody said that, all that's been said is consoles are more efficient and can extract more performance out of the same hardware compared to the PC using that exact same h/w config.

Of course they're more efficient, but that does not overcome the fact that a decent PC more than makes up for the inefficiency, which is largely down to MS and DX. Hopefully DX 12 will put more of the available horsepower to use.

 

[dasega]

An unreleased game, one that specifically aims to be a visual spectacle FOR YEARS and targetted the 'next-next-gen' of graphical hardware so to speak, I'm not sure what you're getting at. There's also quite a difference between continuous objects needed in a world and in space.

They're not even remotely comparable, Star Citizen is not going to be playable at decent framerates while being maxed out for years, 4K? hell they plan to use 8K textures.

Getting at obvious console inferiority, maybe I went over the top with 4k, bottom line is you would see much better visuals on PC exclusive.

 

[Agent_Bleu]

Can we get to the bottom of why people are beating this dead horse?

Is it controversial at this point, that there is a decline in quality in the footage we've seen?

Here's what I've noticed:
lighting doesn't look nearly as good, shadows are basic and some are missing entirely (this is probably the major one when it comes to a subconscious feeling of realism--the old, allegedly real-time footage looked almost photorealistic at certain angles)
Poorer flesh-tones (lack of sub-surface scattering?), faces look better though in this latest footage than the Elder Blood trailer
Flat textures on surfaces, no bump-mapping/tessallation/parallax occlusion or whatever the correct term is
Water looks very basic, especially on the surface (Crysis and Bioshock have better water)
Mainly in this latest footage, the colours are garishly saturated (not really a fidelity thing, though)

There's also a lack of disclosure in trailers as to what, if anything, is pre-rendered, which could lead to further confusion or unrealistic expectations.

For instance, is the Yen on the left pre-rendered or 'touched up' in any way? The one on the right looks like it's last-gen by comparison.

It's when they talk of 'uniform draw distances across platforms', that suggests a lack of scalability and forced parity. That is what has me concerned.

Hold me to this: if the official word was that I can turn everything on and have it look like the best of what I've seen (at a price), I'll have nothing further to say.

I wonder why they haven't already reassured us. I wonder if it is because the answer is one we won't like, so they'd best say nothing.

Thanks for attempting to refocus the discussion on the phenomenon itself.


Yes, the downgrade is quite evident to me, the Elder Blood trailer being the exponent of it. After watching it in its uncompressed un-adulterated version, it is still, have to say it, quite shoddy, so much that the official explanation seems to hold no water. To me, that's rather unsettling. Furthemore, REDs continued reticence to disclose which platforms and which settings footage is on piles on top of that. So, drawing from your post, I propose 3 simple yes or no questions to @Marcin Momot and @TheEvilChris .

1) Was the Elder Blood trailer on PC?

2) Can the scenes in the VGX/SoD trailers be replicated in their graphical fidelity integrity on high end PCs when the game finally launches?

3) Before the game releases, are you going to put out gameplay footage - and not just cutscenes - on maxed out PCs on Ultra explicitly labelling it «PC footage on Ultra»?

Answering these would go a long way, I think.
Thanks in advance.

 

[caruga]

2) Can the scenes in the VGX/SoD trailers be replicated in their graphical fidelity integrity on high end PCs when the game finally launches?

Of course there's a difference between reproducing graphics and reproducing them at a decent frame-rate. I was able to run Witcher 2 ultra + ubersampling on my gtx 260, just not playably so. My concerns will be assuaged if they just say 'you can turn on it on' or 'there's a slider for that'. Right now I wonder if the fidelity we've seen earlier is even accessible.

 

[AboundingTbone]

Of course there's a difference between reproducing graphics and reproducing them at a decent frame-rate. I was able to run Witcher 2 ultra + ubersampling on my gtx 260, just not playably so. My concerns will be assuaged if they just say 'you can turn on it on' or 'there's a slider for that'. Right now I wonder if the fidelity we've seen earlier is even accessible.

His point is whether or not the option is actually there.

 

[caruga]

His point is whether or not the option is actually there.

Yeah, and...?

 

[DukeAlmighty]

@Xigmus
What makes you think it'll look worse? Most people describe it and they like the scene itself, the visuals there are.... pretty damn bad honestly, everything looks half done/unfinished and very rough. The atmosphere is what captures you, but the individual assets? They are really bad. Look at the wood on the windmill, character models, 2D looking huts, sharp as hell grass that look as if it will cut you, Geralt's hair.

Everytime someone mentions it, they describe the atmosphere, the scene and the liveliness of it and mistake that for visual fidelity is what I've found.

All that is true, except I haven't seen those flying particles (dandelion lint of what ever that is) in any of gameplay videos, looks very cool.

 

[Marcin Momot]

Thanks for attempting to refocus the discussion on the phenomenon itself.


Yes, the downgrade is quite evident to me, the Elder Blood trailer being the exponent of it. After watching it in its uncompressed un-adulterated version, it is still, have to say it, quite shoddy, so much that the official explanation seems to hold no water. To me, that's rather unsettling. Furthemore, REDs continued reticence to disclose which platforms and which settings footage is on piles on top of that. So, drawing from your post, I propose 3 simple yes or no questions to @Marcin Momot and @TheEvilChris .

1) Was the Elder Blood trailer on PC?

2) Can the scenes in the VGX/SoD trailers be replicated in their graphical fidelity integrity on high end PCs when the game finally launches?

3) Before the game releases, are you going to put out gameplay footage - and not just cutscenes - on maxed out PCs on Ultra explicitly labelling it «PC footage on Ultra»?

Answering these would go a long way, I think.
Thanks in advance.

1. Yes
2. Yes
3. Not sure but that's a good idea and something we will definitely look into

 

[1337Smithy]

/thread

 

[ReptilePZ]

 

[delnac.723]

1. Yes
2. Yes
3. Not sure but that's a good idea and something we will definitely look into

Thank you, we couldn't have asked for more. Good luck for the last few months .

 

[Agent_Bleu]

The huts look 2D in the Windmill animated GIF? Really?

It has also been claimed the scene in the latest footage where the griffon swoops down on Vesemir is pretty much identical to its counterpart in that same VGX trailer. Watch both in slo mo. Even dting the fact that it's probably a different species of Griffon, the two look s apart, the original being far more detailed, nuanced in that you can see its bone structure and layered feathers, not just an (almost) amorphous dark outline which, incidentally, also happens to be very aliased.

I'm sorry, but to me these two claims sound just about as extreme as that one saying current lighting is PS2-grade.