Obvious Downgrade

[MkTama]

Well, this thread seems to have confined itself to arguing about what people think the developers said and ignoring what people who have actually played the game have to say.

Maybe, unless somebody has anything more than misinterpretations of what developers said in a language that isn't their own, it's time to lock this.

Bring posts with real substance and real evidence, or we've had enough of it.

No one here will ever hold substance or evedence, it's only a matter of trust/distrust in CDPR since the info we were provided is not enough and since the game is still under development. This was the very nature of the topic since it was opened. If this is worth discussing, we can talk, for sure no one can give real answers besides developers. Even then, not anyone will be convinced.

Anyway I am waiting 'till the next statements or material as I already expressed my 2 cents: we'll see in due time. For now, big commotion without solid proof that there is a need to worry about anything.

 

[misho8723]

If the game is still going to have this type of volumetric clouds in the final version, I would be so happy.. it's not just another effect on the list, but it adds so much to the overall atmosphere and to the world..

 

[Scholdarr.452]

If the game is still going to have this type of volumetric clouds in the final version, I would be so happy.. it's not just another effect on the list, but it adds so much to the overall atmosphere and to the world..

True. I'm actually quite curious if stuff like that is connected to the dynamic weather system. Like e.g. volumetric fog in the woods after a heavy rain when the sun breaks out again and the wetness in the woods start to evaporate. That would be pretty awesome...

I think CDPR should really do a "weather effects" video, showing all the great weather conditions like sunshine, rain, snow, storms and the transitions. Game journos have praised the weather system and its relative "realism" a lot and it's probably something that really enhances the visual impression and the overall atmosphere in some or almost any situation.

 

[501105]

No idea if the following link has been posted already, but I am rather curious what others make of it.
Is it purely the difference in color and sharpening that I am seeing?

http://imgur.com/a/8I1He#IadKiFB

 

[Scholdarr.452]

No idea if the following link has been posted already, but I am rather curious what others make of it.
Is it purely the difference in color and sharpening that I am seeing?

http://imgur.com/a/8I1He#IadKiFB

It already has been posted and discussed. We're again going round in circles...

But yes, it's mostly a difference in color. If you go a bit back in this thread you can see a poster from CDPR in which they introduce different color settings and palettes for different regions in the game. No man's land has a different color palette than Novigrad and also a different color palette than Skellige. It also has something to do with weather conditions and daytimes...

 

[501105]

It already has been posted and discussed. We're again going round in circles...

But yes, it's mostly a difference in color. If you go a bit back in this thread you can see a poster from CDPR in which they introduce different color settings and palettes for different regions in the game. No man's land has a different color palette than Novigrad and also a different color palette than Skellige.

Ah, good to know, thank you.
I can not believe that it is a simple color difference myself (missing effects and all that, but I will go to earlier pages to see the discussion).

 

[megatonante]

"color palette is changed" is kind of a weak argument, since the supposedly not-downgraded part of those images looks so much better than those that are recent and supposedly downgraded. If it's just a color palette thing, why did they chage it to make the game a bit less beautiful?

 

[Agent_Bleu]

No idea if the following link has been posted already, but I am rather curious what others make of it.
Is it purely the difference in color and sharpening that I am seeing?

http://imgur.com/a/8I1He#IadKiFB

It already has been posted and discussed. We're again going round in circles...

But yes, it's mostly a difference in color. If you go a bit back in this thread you can see a poster from CDPR in which they introduce different color settings and palettes for different regions in the game. No man's land has a different color palette than Novigrad and also a different color palette than Skellige. It also has something to do with weather conditions and daytimes...

These warrant a, one, supplementary post.


@Scholdarr , I'm sorry but bollocks. Bo-llo-cks.

The gap in graphical fidelity is so monumental- lighting, shadow and texture quality - that only mental gymnastics of Olympic calibre have a shot at passing it as mere differences in colour palette. So now we have a different kind of problem in our hands. I am going to believe Marcin when he says those very exact scenes in the VGX and SoD trailers showcased in the link will be there in their exact, unaltered integrity in the final game, on PC.

So the forceful conclusion is this: REDengine 3 is currently wildly inconsistent.

 

[Beasthunt]

Does hardware actually exist that can play TW3 on ultra with 60fps?

Hahahahahaha. I doubt it. A 980 still doesn't max out TW2 at 60fps with ubersampling on.

 

[Daywalker30]

Let's not forget that he "supposedly" Downgrade talk is mostly of the gameplay footage we've seen so far.
From the (PC) impressions on the "Hands On" Event a week ago, all people who played it and made a Preview of the game said that they could only play on "High" setting.

The maxed Ultra setting (and maybe Very High ? ) were locked due to optimizing it, which probably means the performance is still not high enough.
Remember the gameplay footage last year on E3 and Gamscom? They had some performance issues, which are mostly fixed now.

So we haven't actually seen how it really looks when maxed out, except for some shots in trailer maybe.

 

[ReptilePZ]

The gap in graphical fidelity is so monumental

I'm sorry, but where exactly do you see this monumental gap, because it simply is not there. Rather than making overblown general statements, let me comment on each of the images:

First comparison: Completely different lighting and camera angle, VGX image is oversharpened to ludicrous levels (just look at the artefacts on the grass in front of the mill,) the actual assets are identical. In motipn, it has some nice wind effects, which we've seen in other areas of the latest gameplay footage.

Second image. Again, different colour saturation (on the flame, I imagine it would look exactly the same if we had this same scene on the latest build that was shown, which has a much higher saturation level than the 35-min demo did) and a brighter night (it's a full moon). The assets are of the same quality.

Third comparison: Comparing screenshots taken under perfect conditions to gameplay stills. Okay... Overlooking the impeccable composition of the shots in these handpicked screenshots, the assets are still the same. The griffin and Geralt in the screenshot of the supposed pre-downgrade version also seem to have a wet effect on them, which is weird.

Swamp comparison: Assets are, again, literally the same (look at the trees.) Different lighting setting, less saturated colours on the 35-minute demo. Also, VGX footage has more bloom (blinding reflection from Geralt's armour) and sharpening (grass looks like it's going to cut you.)

Geralt's face - Yeah, that scar looked pretty low-res and lacked depth in the SoD trailer shot, didn't it. Beard looks a bit shit, too. And will you look at that non-nVidia hair. Ugh.

Siren looking funny - I would cherry-pick an image of a siren from the Debut trailer if my laptop would allow it.

Geralt without shading - Uhm, I don't get it. It shows Geralt's face without shader effects.

Gifs - yeah, those are gifs of SoD alright. By the way, the purple haze in the horse scene was actually mentioned in one of the previews, guy said it looked amazing, if a bit funny when the light was reflected on character models in cutscenes. The water effects during a storm look amazing, too, hope we get to see more of those as we get closer to launch.

Bottomline: I don't see this "obvious" downgrade. It's just the nature of an open world game to not look consistent all the time.

 

[misho8723]

True. I'm actually quite curious if stuff like that is connected to the dynamic weather system. Like e.g. volumetric fog in the woods after a heavy rain when the sun breaks out again and the wetness in the woods start to evaporate. That would be pretty awesome...

I think CDPR should really do a "weather effects" video, showing all the great weather conditions like sunshine, rain, snow, storms and the transitions. Game journos have praised the weather system and its relative "realism" a lot and it's probably something that really enhances the visual impression and the overall atmosphere in some or almost any situation.

Yeah, the weather effects is something I would love to see in a video or other form.. volumetric clouds, storms, sailing in the open sea to see the waves, wind, etc.. yeah, this stuff is really interesting

 

[megatonante]

I'm sorry, but where exactly do you see this monumental gap, because it simply is not there. Rather than making overblown general statements, let me comment on each of the images:

First comparison: Completely different lighting and camera angle, VGX image is oversharpened to ludicrous levels (just look at the artefacts on the grass in front of the mill,) the actual assets are identical. In motipn, it has some nice wind effects, which we've seen in other areas of the latest gameplay footage.

Second image. Again, different colour saturation (on the flame, I imagine it would look exactly the same if we had this same scene on the latest build that was shown, which has a much higher saturation level than the 35-min demo did) and a brighter night (it's a full moon). The assets are of the same quality.

Third comparison: Comparing screenshots taken under perfect conditions to gameplay stills. Okay... Overlooking the impeccable composition of the shots in these handpicked screenshots, the assets are still the same. The griffin and Geralt in the screenshot of the supposed pre-downgrade version also seem to have a wet effect on them, which is weird.

Swamp comparison: Assets are, again, literally the same (look at the trees.) Different lighting setting, less saturated colours on the 35-minute demo. Also, VGX footage has more bloom (blinding reflection from Geralt's armour) and sharpening (grass looks like it's going to cut you.)

Geralt's face - Yeah, that scar looked pretty low-res and lacked depth in the SoD trailer shot, didn't it. Beard looks a bit shit, too. And will you look at that non-nVidia hair. Ugh.

Siren looking funny - I would cherry-pick an image of a siren from the Debut trailer if my laptop would allow it.

Geralt without shading - Uhm, I don't get it. It shows Geralt's face without shader effects.

Gifs - yeah, those are gifs of SoD alright. By the way, the purple haze in the horse scene was actually mentioned in one of the previews, guy said it looked amazing, if a bit funny when the light was reflected on character models in cutscenes. The water effects during a storm look amazing, too, hope we get to see more of those as we get closer to launch.

Bottomline: I don't see this "obvious" downgrade. It's just the nature of an open world game to not look consistent all the time.

Sorry, but taking this image: http://i.imgur.com/IadKiFB.jpg
you can't say that the first comparison (the two horse shots) is not downgraded. I am not expert in assets and the like, but just from a simple look you can tell the scene on the right is almost incredible, that on the left is The Witcher 2 tier.

 

[Scholdarr.452]

Sorry, but taking this image: http://i.imgur.com/IadKiFB.jpg
you can't say that the first comparison (the two horse shots) is not downgraded. I am not expert in assets and the like, but just from a simple look you can tell the scene on the right is almost incredible, that on the left is The Witcher 2 tier.

Ahem, no. I also just took a "simple look" and I disagree.

Maybe you should also play TW2 again (not even to mention that the comparison is kind of stupid given the fact how limited the level architecture and foresight in TW2 was)...

And then again, the "comparison shots" compare completely different areas in the game with different vegetation, lighting, weather and so on. Pointless. You can't make a serious comparison without comparing EXACTLY the same scene at the exactly same location at the exactly same daytime and weather. Everything else is just speculative given the fact how little we've seen from the world so far...

 

[ReptilePZ]

Sorry, but taking this image: http://i.imgur.com/IadKiFB.jpg
you can't say that the first comparison (the two horse shots) is not downgraded. I am not expert in assets and the like, but just from a simple look you can tell the scene on the right is almost incredible, that on the left is The Witcher 2 tier.

I can and I did. Like I said, the composition in the handpicked screenshot is indeed very nice, but the asset quality is the same.

 

[Adamastor]

wow these thread must be a record in blue posts, anyway for those you think the graphics are downgraded or you have doubts simple wait for the reviews and videos of the game after the released date and then make your decision to buy or not imo the game looks great as it is i don´t care about old footage or screens if this 15 demo is what we get i´m happy

 

[Vigilance.492]

Sorry, but taking this image: http://i.imgur.com/IadKiFB.jpg
you can't say that the first comparison (the two horse shots) is not downgraded. I am not expert in assets and the like, but just from a simple look you can tell the scene on the right is almost incredible, that on the left is The Witcher 2 tier.

The biggest give-away is the trees, vegetation and the top of that rock wall. It's all the same asset quality.

However look at the shadows, and how fucked up the blacks are in the screenshots on the left, and the colouring in general. Whoever took that picture has some skewed colours on their PC. Compare it to this...

 

[DBag]

First comparison: Completely different lighting and camera angle, VGX image is oversharpened to ludicrous levels (just look at the artefacts on the grass in front of the mill,) the actual assets are identical. In motipn, it has some nice wind effects, which we've seen in other areas of the latest gameplay footage.

How can you honestly say that? The vegetation looks far superior in the VGX screen. That's the first thing that catches my eye. If indeed, as you say, the actual assets are identical, and the only three things that make the grass look flat, sparse and generally underwhelming are lighting, camera angle and sharp effect -- boy, are we in for a wild ride in terms of visual consistency.

 

[misho8723]

Don't forget the game had SSAO off, so that's maybe some things look somewhat flat

 

[ReptilePZ]

the only three things that make the grass look flat, sparse and generally underwhelming are lighting, camera angle and sharp effect

How sparse the grass is depends entirely on the location. The only way that can be compared is to find the same spot in-game and compare. Other than that, it's pure speculation. As for it looking 'flat,' sharpening can do wonders in making textures pop-out and catch your eye. The problem with sharpening is that it also causes some artefacts in places, like the green area in front of the mill that I pointed out.