Obvious Downgrade

[gregski]

Moderators aren't polish

 

[Angelicorum]

Yeah, looks like a mask in my image. The other image though it looks more like an actual skull. Maybe because the image with the horse has a white color to it.

Probably the use of lighting. Every time I watch the video, I just keep looking at the way the face-masks are designed to further concede my point that they're used as a voice echo.

 

[DBag]

Let me put on my tin foil hat here for a moment.

CDPR is obviously a multiplatform developer now and has to deal with both M$ and Sony. Once you get into the multiplatform business there are also some rules you have to follow, the first and most important one being:

You shall not make the pc version look too good or too superior in any way in comparison to the Xbone and PS4 versions or you can forget about a release on the consoles

and the second most important rule being:

Your PR department shall not speak openly about any of this, and in case you have to, come up with something about Youtube's crappy compression being the root of all teh evil

Now let's look back a few months to the announcement of the Xbone CE being bolstered with a cloth map and a physical version of the ingame card game which name escapes me. Apparently this was some kind of concession CDPR was fortunately able to force through for not having to make any Xbone-exclusive ingame content.
But what if this deal with M$ involves other, non-disclosable terms CDPR has to follow as well? Like, for instance rule no. 1?
And it's probably the same with the Sony deal. Except that the PS4 CE apparently doesn't need any additional incentives to compensate for technical inferiority.

And now for the Elder Blood promo.
It was obviously rushed, and contains footage of widely varyingly quality, ranging from the good, the bad to the fugly. Albeit good intentions CDPR fucked up and now reap what they have sown. Which in my opinion is entirely justified for having the audacity (or balls rather) to release something like the Elder Blood video 2-3 months prior to release. I'm sorry if this sounds entitled or arrogant, but there's hardly any excuse for not making sure that ALL of the footage looks consistent and like from a game to be released in February(!) with "genre-defining, truly next generation audio-visual fidelity". Some of the footage certainly looked the part (Ciri, Yennefer, Eredin) while others (Caranthir, Eredin, some of the textures, some of the lighting) certainly do not. Again, despite good intentions, they brought this unto themselves and now have to deal with the backlash, and rightfully so.

And especially if you then have a representative of the company coming forward and claim that it was just a problem with CDPR's inhouse video compression and youtube's compression on top of that, which fucked up the footage in some parts. I'm sorry but everyone with just the basic knowledge of compression and artifacting knows that this is complete and utter bullshit. Compression can't decrease polygon count and directly fuck up textures to look like they're from 1999.
This is basically rule no. 2 right here.

Was there ever a case since the inception of multiplatform developement where a PR representative or otherwise company affiliated came out openly and said , "hey guys, don't worry about the quality of some of the footage, this was just coming from the 6 months old non-optimised build of the version for the consoles"? If there ever was such a case I honestly can't remember.
There would be much less shitstorming without a doubt if developers would be more transparent and specific about the promotional stuff they make public. But for some reason (rule no. 2) they simply cannot, and just let the shitstorms go by mostly uncommentated and without addressing specific gripes in fear of pissing off other parties. Apparently it's already too confidential and dangerous to properly tag screenshots with the platform and build they were taken from.

The bottom line is that CDPR might have been rebels once but if you become a multiplatform developer you unfortunately have to play ball with M$ and Sony which involves all sorts of shady business (rule no. 1 and 2) you don't always can wriggle yourself out of.

I don't see CDPR going the way of Crytek (yet) but they're the perfect warning example for a once mighty PC centric cutting edge developer fallen low because of getting into the multiplatform development business and the concessions to the consoles this entails.

This is a great post, it deserves more visibility.

 

[C0bR]

Yup the Neogaf insider thing was weird, especially since he was silent after his first post or so.

Indeed a awesome Snake Geralt. (or however a mix of the two is called.)

That's because someone here basically said he knew who the poster was and that he was full of shit.

We have not heard of him since.

 

[SageFox.326]

funny but i believe not all moderators are polish, or everyone here is from poland?

Also, you could look at some other posts that didn't "keep it civil".

 

[ReptilePZ]

Not all moderators are Polish.

For that matter, not all CDPR staff is Polish either.

Stick to the thread topic, please.

 

[wichat]

Moderators aren't polish and this forums isn't the polish forum. Any one could be a moderator. CDPR doesn't manage this forum nor created i think, CDPR make videogames. I'm in love with Poland., not the moderators of the worldwide forum.

???

Who is talking about moderators?
I'm afraid you've absolutly misunderstood me. Never mind.

Cheers!

 

[Jimbob_2.1]

It was, i gave some screenshots made by @Rustine in my previous post in this topic.

Anyway CDP RED are probably working on other uncompressed version which will be uploaded to youtube.

Thanks. My download speeds been crap lately so i guess I'll wait for the yt video.

Any thoughts from anyone who's seen the video?

 

[ReptilePZ]

@SageFox This is the last time you are asked to return to the thread topic and to cease discussing moderator instructions/decisions, unless it is done in the way described in the forum rules.

 

[AboundingTbone]

Let me put on my tin foil hat here for a moment.

CDPR is obviously a multiplatform developer now and has to deal with both M$ and Sony. Once you get into the multiplatform business there are also some rules you have to follow, the first and most important one being:

You shall not make the pc version look too good or too superior in any way in comparison to the Xbone and PS4 versions or you can forget about a release on the consoles

and the second most important rule being:

Your PR department shall not speak openly about any of this, and in case you have to, come up with something about Youtube's crappy compression being the root of all teh evil

Now let's look back a few months to the announcement of the Xbone CE being bolstered with a cloth map and a physical version of the ingame card game which name escapes me. Apparently this was some kind of concession CDPR was fortunately able to force through for not having to make any Xbone-exclusive ingame content.
But what if this deal with M$ involves other, non-disclosable terms CDPR has to follow as well? Like, for instance rule no. 1?
And it's probably the same with the Sony deal. Except that the PS4 CE apparently doesn't need any additional incentives to compensate for technical inferiority.

And now for the Elder Blood promo.
It was obviously rushed, and contains footage of widely varyingly quality, ranging from the good, the bad to the fugly. Albeit good intentions CDPR fucked up and now reap what they have sown. Which in my opinion is entirely justified for having the audacity (or balls rather) to release something like the Elder Blood video 2-3 months prior to release. I'm sorry if this sounds entitled or arrogant, but there's hardly any excuse for not making sure that ALL of the footage looks consistent and like from a game to be released in February(!) with "genre-defining, truly next generation audio-visual fidelity". Some of the footage certainly looked the part (Ciri, Yennefer, Eredin) while others (Caranthir, Eredin, some of the textures, some of the lighting) certainly do not. Again, despite good intentions, they brought this unto themselves and now have to deal with the backlash, and rightfully so.

And especially if you then have a representative of the company coming forward and claim that it was just a problem with CDPR's inhouse video compression and youtube's compression on top of that, which fucked up the footage in some parts. I'm sorry but everyone with just the basic knowledge of compression and artifacting knows that this is complete and utter bullshit. Compression can't decrease polygon count and directly fuck up textures to look like they're from 1999.
This is basically rule no. 2 right here.

Was there ever a case since the inception of multiplatform developement where a PR representative or otherwise company affiliated came out openly and said , "hey guys, don't worry about the quality of some of the footage, this was just coming from the 6 months old non-optimised build of the version for the consoles"? If there ever was such a case I honestly can't remember.
There would be much less shitstorming without a doubt if developers would be more transparent and specific about the promotional stuff they make public. But for some reason (rule no. 2) they simply cannot, and just let the shitstorms go by mostly uncommentated and without addressing specific gripes in fear of pissing off other parties. Apparently it's already too confidential and dangerous to properly tag screenshots with the platform and build they were taken from.

The bottom line is that CDPR might have been rebels once but if you become a multiplatform developer you unfortunately have to play ball with M$ and Sony which involves all sorts of shady business (rule no. 1 and 2) you don't always can wriggle yourself out of.

I don't see CDPR going the way of Crytek (yet) but they're the perfect warning example for a once mighty PC centric cutting edge developer fallen low because of getting into the multiplatform development business and the concessions to the consoles this entails.

Getting back on topic, what do people here think about this thorough post? Not many people addressed this person's assertion.

 

[Garret117]

I just registered because this situation is getting out of hands. It disgusts me to see how some people call criticism "annoying peolple", how, when there are complaints, others try to silence them with a "but...". If all of us acted that way, you can be sure TW3 would be a terible game. The same way that dozens of MMOs have failed because fanboys in official communities have tried to defend EVERY SINGLE BAD THING. Always the same: "that's irrelevant, it will be good!". You know what? It won't be if people don't complain about things, if bad quality of any kind has no repercussions.

I will tell you how great games are made. Great games are made when the developers know that any lie or downgrade will result in a mass of angry fans who care about the quality of the games, not a mass of puppies saying "it's of, CDPR, I don't care, I will buy 485738475 copies no matter what ".If you weren't afraid of hurting the feelings of the pooooor developers, we would have already gotten one thousand answers from them. Developers who fear the consequences of bad quality, as it should be, make sure there is no bad quality, only improvements.

I DON'T WANT PATCHES OR FIXES, I WANT THE THINGS THAT THEY HAVE ALREADY MADE AND SHOWN. THERE IS NO REASON TO REMOVE ANY OF THEM UNLESS IT'S GOING TO BE A HUGE DOWNGRADE CAUSED BY CONSOLES. Consoles that, as you can see, seem to be the focus. Constant console footage, videos, captures etc. Not a single recent capture showing what we will get for PC.

This thread isn't about the gameplay. It isn't about the story. It isn't about
"But...". It isn't about optimism and smiles. It's about downgrades, and I expected moderation to moderate to moderate off-topic messages.

Just THIS. Blind fanboyism is never good. We shouldn't accept a patch to fix this or optimize that, a good game should be good from the start, there's no excuse for that. And like everything else, if you advertize some features you should know that you will have to be able to deliver them, or your customers will be angry, simple as that.

 

[AboundingTbone]

Just THIS. Blind fanboyism is never good. We shouldn't accept a patch to fix this or optimize that, a good game should be good from the start, there's no excuse for that. And like everything else, if you advertize some features you should know that you will have to be able to deliver them, or your customers will be angry, simple as that.

I think it's good to deliver something that is functional and enjoyable, but if the developer wants to add onto it later on that is completely okay. I don't think we're worried that CDPR will deliver something similar to AC:Unity. We KNOW it will be a thorough, functioning game.

It's the constant switching in quality with no definitive answer that is distressing people.

 

[wichat]

I'm only a gamer. I leave deep assertations with professional (they must be ) assessment to people deeply knowledgeable on the subject.

I cannot judge some one by one or two steps so I'll wait for the game. It's very tired discuting agaisnt ghosts. Hopefully nobody is forced to buy/play the game.


It would be too much ask for use I instead of WE?

 

[Ryanza]

delete

 

[JackalJ]

Well good luck finding a bug free open world game. Even the elder scrolls games are broken on release, and they have been going at it for awhile.

To expect a complete and perfect game on release is a dream that probably never will happen.

 

[AboundingTbone]

After playing The Witcher 2, I am excited to buy The Witcher 3 to see what CD Projekt RED has done with an open world / sandbox type game. I am also interested to see how the game turns out on these new consoles. But that is all for when the game gets released.

I am excited to buy The Witcher 3 to see what CD Projekt RED has done and if they fucked up, I can just sell the game. No problems.
I would like to buy a Ubisoft PC game to see what they have done and if they fucked up, I would like to sell the game. Oh wait. I can't sell it. Problem.
I would like to buy a EA PC game and see what they have done with the game and if they fucked up, I would like to sell the game. Can't sell it. Problem.

I wonder if that, can't sell the shitty PC games, has made people to look at trailers, pictures, reviews, Youtube personalities, ect, to find the finished game. Trailers, pictures and even demo's to a small degree, will never represent the final product. Only by buying and playing the game for yourself, will you be able to see and judge how the game looks and performs.

Looking back at this thread, it's sad to see what has happened to consumer behavior.

All that I know is that I have to play The Witcher 3 to see what CD Projekt RED has done. And if I don't like the game, I am glad that CD Projekt RED has given me the option to sell the game. And that is all that matters. Buy, play, sell if shit. Happy consumer.

I will say it again. Trailers, pictures, demo's, don't represent the finial product. If there are inconsistencies in the trailers and pictures, it means the game is not finished. Wait for the damn game to be finished. Or at least wait for the launch trailer.

While trailers may not represent the final product, the fact that it's getting progressively worse is worrisome. This is the opposite of what happened with the W2. Also, just because other companies falsely advertise their games doesn't mean CDPR, a company that prides itself on its honesty and consumer relations, gets a pass for it.

 

[Esputi]

Can't CDPR just release a screenshot or two from the recent PC build with everything turned to ultra? Maybe from a region already shown in prior gameplay videos, so that they don't give away anything new? That would pretty much put an end to the entire debate if we see new screens looking like the first trailers we saw. I pre-ordered the PC version of W3 (the CE, so that is a lot of money) and one of the reasons was that I wanted a better product than the console versions all around, and I am mainly a console player. While graphics aren't all, if they show something it should at least look like it. I don't want to get dark soul 2'd again. And please, to the people raging. Be more mature. There are more important things in live:cheers:

 

[AboundingTbone]

Can't CDPR just release a screenshot or two from the recent PC build with everything turned to ultra? Maybe from a region already shown in prior gameplay videos, so that they don't give away anything new? That would pretty much put an end to the entire debate if we see new screens looking like the first trailers we saw. I pre-ordered the PC version of W3 (the CE, so that is a lot of money) and one of the reasons was that I wanted a better product than the console versions all around, and I am mainly a console player. While graphics aren't all, if they show something it should at least look like it. I don't want to get dark soul 2'd again. And please, to the people raging. Be more mature. There are more important things in live:cheers:

Or in-game footage consistent with that of the VGX or SoD trailers. The 35 minute demo was not of such quality.

 

[SageFox.326]

I'm only a gamer. I leave deep assertations with professional (they must be ) assessment to people deeply knowledgeable on the subject.

I cannot judge some one by one or two steps so I'll wait for the game. It's very tired discuting agaisnt ghosts. Hopefully nobody is forced to buy/play the game.


It would be too much ask for use I instead of WE?

it would, because it's a we and not an i.

if every step is worst.... is a lead to something.

 

[GuyNwah]

Getting back on topic, what do people here think about this thorough post? Not many people addressed this person's assertion.

Starts from a false and unfounded claim, namely the claim that console makers require multiplatform developers to degrade their games.

Conclusions drawn from claims that are merely asserted without facts in evidence need not be addressed. Talk is cheap.