OK, so NR is a bit insane, eh?

[quintivarium]

Like i said to The other user, play it and share your results

I have played two different mages. After your comment, I tried a third.

I quickly realized that posting results is not worthwhile. I don’t have huge amounts of playing time, so my sample would be small. (I actually spend much more time on forums because interruptions don’t ruin another player’s experience.) And I got a large number of very quick forfeits. Moreover, when complete games were played, my opponents often played extremely poorly, although to be fair, my own play was not very good either. I play almost exclusively on unranked — and because I have allowed my own ranking to drop by not playing ranked, I am sure ranked play would be worse.

Anyway, in cases where my opponents stayed in the game long enough to play them, I had no trouble getting enough patient mages to stick to play two very strong rounds. Although I have not yet encountered any control heavy decks, I found that opponents generally could only stop my mages in round one by over committing their removal. And I could outperform almost anything they played in the remaining rounds.

But I think we also need to recognize that not all players play at top levels. Ultimate balance might be judged by how well a card performs at top levels of play, but it also has to be manageable by the for more numerous players at other levels.

Based upon the number of quick forfeits and the lack of good games, I also conclude my opponents did not particularly enjoy the matchup.

But to take this discussion another direction, I very much enjoyed playing my last variant — a version of mages where my leader was shield wall and I focused on patience. Playing my cards well was a tactical challenge (one I am still not handling successfully), and the strategy was interesting. What I liked best about the deck was that I NEVER had a bad hand. There were lots of cheap cards, but every one of them was a meaningful contributor to the round in which I played it. I really appreciate not needing to rely on drawing gold cards, and I appreciate the flexibility in deck building afforded by the ability to effectively include a lot of inexpensive cards.

Rather than further nern evaluating balance, I would like to see more bronze packages boosted or introduced at the same level of effectiveness.

 

[radesign]

Avery simple solution is to row-lock mages patience.
The NR have siege ladder to counter this.

It would make this tutorial level easy deck a bit harder to play.

As it gets nauseating to play against, cause it`s so boring.

I either see purple or mages.

 

[xBiSx]

Yes, now even Skellige can't control everything

 

[NR4ever]

Yes, now even Skellige can't control everything

What will be a point of playing "anything" at all if there will be factions that control "everything"?

 

[xBiSx]

What will be a point of playing "anything" at all if there will be factions that control "everything"?

I mean something more like that SK full control deck can't handle with NR.
And what a point of playing Full Control deck if u can't control others.

 

[NR4ever]

I mean something more like that SK full control deck can't handle with NR.
And what a point of playing Full Control deck if u can't control others.

[...] I beat meta NG and meta NR in many of games with my far far away from meta deck (its also respond to Your posts in another thread about metadecks), and - btw - I am very poor player, so if I am able to do it, better players surely do much more often. Its Skellige what is tremendously strong against NR,and it is almost impossible to win without plenty of luck or bad opponent draw. But I don't play for about one week now so maybe something have changed during that 7 days in meta and my opinion os obsolete now- i doubt it, but maybe

 

[xBiSx]

[...] I beat meta NG and meta NR in many of games with my far far away from meta deck (its also respond to Your posts in another thread about metadecks), and - btw - I am very poor player, so if I am able to do it, better players surely do much more often. Its Skellige what is tremendously strong against NR,and it is almost impossible to win without plenty of luck or bad opponent draw. But I don't play for about one week now so maybe something have changed during that 7 days in meta and my opinion os obsolete now- i doubt it, but maybe

If you [...] don't get my idea. I explain you. Engine in your deck is resource just like Control. So u must understand how right to spend it. And here is the problem. NR have many engines and in the same time this engines is carry over. So even if you control all of them in the R1, NR can create more of them and use Shani. So NR get his points anyway and this points is more bigger than yours.

 

[Draconifors]

Users are reminded that being rude or disrespectful towards other people or their opinions is not permitted. Posts edited.

 

[NR4ever]

If you [...] don't get my idea. I explain you. Engine in your deck is resource just like Control. So u must understand how right to spend it. And here is the problem. NR have many engines and in the same time this engines is carry over. So even if you control all of them in the R1, NR can create more of them and use Shani. So NR get his points anyway and this points is more bigger than yours.

Dude I tried to play wizards deck and it is not as strong as You claim - when You encounter hard control like Skellige or copycat NG You can win only when You are better skilled or luckier than opponent. If none of that happens and You encounter well skilled skellige or NG player with fair draw You will loose. Ok it can be OP against weak control decks, and in advantage against certain factions, but against SK or NG you will loose most of games.

 

[dadofsam71]

I'm not entirely convinced that NR is "insane" as I am still getting my fair share of beat downs by control decks. Course, I've only been playing for less than a month, so my card inventory is fairly sub-standard. =(

I am convinced. Alumni needs hit hard with the nerf stick. I literally created a deck geared to combat it(super control nilfgaard deck) and lost, not majorly but still lost handily enough even with good draws. Something needs done. Alumni is majorly toxic. It really is not enjoyable. I'll keep testing this deck but I should not have to play like this just to stand a chance at all.

Post automatically merged: Dec 3, 2021

Dude I tried to play wizards deck and it is not as strong as You claim - when You encounter hard control like Skellige or copycat NG You can win only when You are better skilled or luckier than opponent. If none of that happens and You encounter well skilled skellige or NG player with fair draw You will loose. Ok it can be OP against weak control decks, and in advantage against certain factions, but against SK or NG you will loose most of games.

No offense but if you don't think it is overpowered then you're probably playing it wrong or built it wrong. It needs taken down a notch with the nerf stick.

 

[rrc]

I am convinced. Alumni needs hit hard with the nerf stick. I literally created a deck geared to combat it(super control nilfgaard deck) and lost, not majorly but still lost handily enough even with good draws. Something needs done. Alumni is majorly toxic. It really is not enjoyable. I'll keep testing this deck but I should not have to play like this just to stand a chance at all.

Post automatically merged: Dec 3, 2021

No offense but if you don't think it is overpowered then you're probably playing it wrong or built it wrong. It needs taken down a notch with the nerf stick.

Along with Messenger Of Sea and Fucusya and Terra Nova.. as these three cards are the major offender IMHO. Only nerfing Alumni or NR Mages will only make SK and NG even more oppressive than now.

 

[NR4ever]

I am convinced. Alumni needs hit hard with the nerf stick. I literally created a deck geared to combat it(super control nilfgaard deck) and lost, not majorly but still lost handily enough even with good draws. Something needs done. Alumni is majorly toxic. It really is not enjoyable. I'll keep testing this deck but I should not have to play like this just to stand a chance at all.

Post automatically merged: Dec 3, 2021

No offense but if you don't think it is overpowered then you're probably playing it wrong or built it wrong. It needs taken down a notch with the nerf stick.

No offence taken - could You sheare that OP wizard deck? I will Tell You if I tested similar or different and in similar or different way

 

[dadofsam71]

Along with Messenger Of Sea and Fucusya and Terra Nova.. as these three cards are the major offender IMHO. Only nerfing Alumni or NR Mages will only make SK and NG even more oppressive than now.

You'll get no argument from me. Those can be equally as abusive.

 

[NR4ever]

You'll get no argument from me. Those can be equally as abusive.

I see that You are unwilling to sheare that OP beating everything wizard deck that You mentioned before, thats fine. I will than in simple way as it possible Try to describe how it looks like on avrage when I faced skellige with my trial wizard deck. Lets say that I am in the best situation, on blue coin:

Card 1: I play student and boost him with skull up to 8, opponent play a bear - its 8:8 on scoreboard
Card 2. I play defender to protect student, opponent use leader ability to wound defender, but only once hits defender breaking shield, so he do it again , that time hits defender two times, after that he uses Junod to kill defender - its 5:14 for him on scoreboard
Card 3. I play raffard vengance on melle range, and geave it zeal, and play marine to protect student - student is boosted back to 9, and vengance hits for 2 random opponent. Opponent heatwaves student, its 10- 12 on scoreboard
Card 4. I play leticia on long, opponent use trial of grasses to kill her - 10-12
Card 5. I use AA to play another student in melle, raffards vengance hits for 2, opponent uses koral to discard morkvarg - 19:21
Card 6 I put another student on long range to make patience, opponent uses Birna to discard two skirmischers and they go into melle - its 23: 39 on scoreboard

Long story short, in that scenario after that opponent passes , and I am one card behind, and in final round alumnies are usually 8 or 9 for 6, often without a zeal and he crushes the remains of my army with rain removal and pointslam. Details can be different depends on the draw on both sides but usually the core of R1 is the same: junod on defender, trail of grasses or gigascorpion venom on leticia, heatwave on boosted stident, pass after hi - tempo swings from birna and koral, and it the nutshell it is unable to do many patience points in R1 without going to card disadvantage.
So, If You have any hints what I was doing wrong, or what mistakes I made in building that deck - I am all ears. Because I really dont have idea how to beat without better luck, skills or draw meta reckless fury with that "OP" wizards deck, or with any NR decks at all.
But - as I said ealier - I am only a poor, amateur player, so I am sure that I did wrong many things, and therefore I am waiting for Your hints to prove me that wizard deck is really OP against midrange skellige when right played

 

[quintivarium]

I see that You are unwilling to sheare that OP beating everything wizard deck that You mentioned before, thats fine. I will than in simple way as it possible Try to describe how it looks like on avrage when I faced skellige with my trial wizard deck. Lets say that I am in the best situation, on blue coin:

Card 1: I play student and boost him with skull up to 8, opponent play a bear - its 8:8 on scoreboard
Card 2. I play defender to protect student, opponent use leader ability to wound defender, but only once hits defender breaking shield, so he do it again , that time hits defender two times, after that he uses Junod to kill defender - its 5:14 for him on scoreboard
Card 3. I play raffard vengance on melle range, and geave it zeal, and play marine to protect student - student is boosted back to 9, and vengance hits for 2 random opponent. Opponent heatwaves student, its 10- 12 on scoreboard
Card 4. I play leticia on long, opponent use trial of grasses to kill her - 10-12
Card 5. I use AA to play another student in melle, raffards vengance hits for 2, opponent uses koral to discard morkvarg - 19:21
Card 6 I put another student on long range to make patience, opponent uses Birna to discard two skirmischers and they go into melle - its 23: 39 on scoreboard

Long story short, in that scenario after that opponent passes , and I am one card behind, and in final round alumnies are usually 8 or 9 for 6, often without a zeal and he crushes the remains of my army with rain removal and pointslam. Details can be different depends on the draw on both sides but usually the core of R1 is the same: junod on defender, trail of grasses or gigascorpion venom on leticia, heatwave on boosted stident, pass after hi - tempo swings from birna and koral, and it the nutshell it is unable to do many patience points in R1 without going to card disadvantage.
So, If You have any hints what I was doing wrong, or what mistakes I made in building that deck - I am all ears. Because I really dont have idea how to beat without better luck, skills or draw meta reckless fury with that "OP" wizards deck, or with any NR decks at all.
But - as I said ealier - I am only a poor, amateur player, so I am sure that I did wrong many things, and therefore I am waiting for Your hints to prove me that wizard deck is really OP against midrange skellige when right played

I'm sorry, I can't let this go unchallenged.

Turn 1: OK, seems reasonable

Turn 2: To injure your defender requires 4 damage pings (one for shield, 2 on armor, 1 to damage). You have two units on the board. Each opponent leader charge hits 3 times. There is under a 50% chance of hitting defender 4 times with only two leader charges. An opponent using this tactic must be willing to expend full leader charge, and could still be unlucky and not hit defender 4 times.

Turn 3: I would probably not play heatwave with this SK deck, but I will accept that a player might. Your 9 strength student is a juicy target -- I don't understand why you wouldn't leave it at 7 (out of conventional removal range even here) and save the marine charge to boost Leticia next round -- your opponent can't remove both student and marine in one round.

Turns 4-6: OK I guess if you accept turns 2 and 3 -- but see concluding analysis.

Analysis: In this scenario, your opponent drew and played Junod, Heatwave, Trial of Grasses, Koral, Morkvarg, Birna, 2 Skirmishers, Raging Bear and (likely) 3 leader charges -- do you honestly expect me to believe this is a typical draw? And even if it was, think about your opponent's commitment -- they have very little left. Even a card down with limited carryover you should have good chances.

 

[MikeBiazzo]

Turn 2: To injure your defender requires 4 damage pings (one for shield, 2 on armor, 1 to damage). You have two units on the board. Each opponent leader charge hits 3 times. There is under a 50% chance of hitting defender 4 times with only two leader charges. An opponent using this tactic must be willing to expend full leader charge, and could still be unlucky and not hit defender 4 times.

Reckless fury is pin damage; armor is not counted.

 

[NR4ever]

Turn 2: To injure your defender requires 4 damage pings (one for shield, 2 on armor, 1 to damage). You have two units on the board.

As @MikeBiazzo mentioned reckless fury pings are piercing armour (I am suprised that You didn't know that as author of thread about.... leader abilities, btw) so 3 pings in my example hit defender breaking his shield and wounding him from 7 to 5, while 3 another hits student decreasing his hp points from 8 to 5. I didn't want on purpouse present better scenario for opponent when 2 pings hits defender in first use of leader ability to avoid exackly that kind discussion about probability and RNG (even when hitting defender 2 out of 3 pings what was enough to injure him had 66% chances to happen)

Post automatically merged: Dec 3, 2021

this scenario, your opponent drew and played Junod, Heatwave, Trial of Grasses, Koral, Morkvarg, Birna, 2 Skirmishers, Raging Bear and (likely) 3 leader charges -- do you honestly expect me to believe this is a typical draw?

Yes, and in that scenario I had two students, defender, AA, leticia, and raffards vengance on hand - very good draw for both of us. As I mentioned, it can be a little bit different due to draw, but core of play is the same. If opponent wouldn't have his cards like junod or heatwave, while I had vengance defender and AA, I considerd it just as a Lucky draw against bad draw for opponent - and that happens sometimes, sure. But it only prove my point that Lucky draw, or much better skills are only things that can help NR against SK , otherwise it's loose

Post automatically merged: Dec 3, 2021

And even if it was, think about your opponent's commitment -- they have very little left. Even a card down with limited carryover you should have good chances

That is not true - he still have amoung the others facousya, Little havrue, trufle, bear witchers with queen and location - everything pointslam + dmg, for 8p+ per turn in every card played - You dont have chances against that without stronger alumnies, and You newrr will have strong alumnies against such strong opponent. Vicious circle

 

[dadofsam71]

I see that You are unwilling to sheare that OP beating everything wizard deck that You mentioned before, thats fine. I will than in simple way as it possible Try to describe how it looks like on avrage when I faced skellige with my trial wizard deck. Lets say that I am in the best situation, on blue coin:

Card 1: I play student and boost him with skull up to 8, opponent play a bear - its 8:8 on scoreboard
Card 2. I play defender to protect student, opponent use leader ability to wound defender, but only once hits defender breaking shield, so he do it again , that time hits defender two times, after that he uses Junod to kill defender - its 5:14 for him on scoreboard
Card 3. I play raffard vengance on melle range, and geave it zeal, and play marine to protect student - student is boosted back to 9, and vengance hits for 2 random opponent. Opponent heatwaves student, its 10- 12 on scoreboard
Card 4. I play leticia on long, opponent use trial of grasses to kill her - 10-12
Card 5. I use AA to play another student in melle, raffards vengance hits for 2, opponent uses koral to discard morkvarg - 19:21
Card 6 I put another student on long range to make patience, opponent uses Birna to discard two skirmischers and they go into melle - its 23: 39 on scoreboard

Long story short, in that scenario after that opponent passes , and I am one card behind, and in final round alumnies are usually 8 or 9 for 6, often without a zeal and he crushes the remains of my army with rain removal and pointslam. Details can be different depends on the draw on both sides but usually the core of R1 is the same: junod on defender, trail of grasses or gigascorpion venom on leticia, heatwave on boosted stident, pass after hi - tempo swings from birna and koral, and it the nutshell it is unable to do many patience points in R1 without going to card disadvantage.
So, If You have any hints what I was doing wrong, or what mistakes I made in building that deck - I am all ears. Because I really dont have idea how to beat without better luck, skills or draw meta reckless fury with that "OP" wizards deck, or with any NR decks at all.
But - as I said ealier - I am only a poor, amateur player, so I am sure that I did wrong many things, and therefore I am waiting for Your hints to prove me that wizard deck is really OP against midrange skellige when right played

Had issues putting mine up here as I don't really use the deck builder on here. It's the same meta BS everyone plays so I found a copy for your reading pleasure, but I am sure you already knew that, just being facetious.

Post automatically merged: Dec 3, 2021

GWENT: The Witcher Card Game

Join in The Witcher universe’s favorite card game! In GWENT, you clash with your friends in fast-paced duels that combine bluffing, on-the-fly decision making and careful deck construction.

www.playgwent.com

 

[quintivarium]

Reckless fury is pin damage; armor is not counted.

Yes, careless error on my part -- I often forget this trait.

Post automatically merged: Dec 3, 2021

(even when hitting defender 2 out of 3 pings what was enough to injure him had 66% chances to happen)

Just nitpicking, but I have to correct math errors. With 1 leader charge, there is a 50% chance of hitting defender at least twice in this situation. With 2 leader charges, the odds are 57/64.

 

[NR4ever]

Yes, careless error on my part -- I often forget this trait.

Post automatically merged: Dec 3, 2021

Just nitpicking, but I have to correct math errors. With 1 leader charge, there is a 50% chance of hitting defender at least twice in this situation. With 2 leader charges, the odds are 57/64.

Yes, You are right: three pings and two targets on board (D=Defendes, S=Student) probability chances of hitting defender looks like like that:

1. D,D,D
2. S, D , D
3. S, D, S
4. D, S, D
5. S, S, D
6. S, S, S

So as You said, three out of six outcomes are hitting defender twice. But I dont think that it brings anything constructive to our discussion about "OP Wizard deck" though

Post automatically merged: Dec 3, 2021

Had issues putting mine up here as I don't really use the deck builder on here. It's the same meta BS everyone plays so I found a copy for your reading pleasure, but I am sure you already knew that, just being facetious.

Post automatically merged: Dec 3, 2021

GWENT: The Witcher Card Game

Join in The Witcher universe’s favorite card game! In GWENT, you clash with your friends in fast-paced duels that combine bluffing, on-the-fly decision making and careful deck construction.

www.playgwent.com

I tried to play loyal NR wizards tbh , so a little bit different that that particular one. Did You played with it maybe? It can really be stronger than meta reckless fury skellige or copycat NG?