On graphic engine: a comparison

[avydia1.388]

On graphic engine: a comparison

Hello, some of the forum users may remember a previous topic I opened on the subject of animation and it's importance in the new witcher game.

In these days I'm playing Tomb Raider reboot and I must say that I'm impressed. I never played any Tomb Raider game before, so don't think that I'm a fanboy (actually I find Lara Croft quite unpleasant) .

I'm playing this game on PC at max setting, and I think it can be considered an early taste of what we can expect from next generation consoles. I refer especially to the outstanding (and masterfully optimized) graphic engine and it's animations. Everything in the scenery is constantly moving, from tree leaves, volumetric fog, fire, wind, etc.
Nature is perfectly represented, Lara's movement is fluid and plausible - I find the camera movement while she runs a finesse that makes everything dynamic and spectacular.

I wonder if this level of programming can be achieved and hopefully exceeded by CDproject dev team.

Have you tried the game? What could TW3 learn and incorporate from it?
Please post your opinions, thanks.

 

[Preserver]

Given the creativity and talents that CD Projekt RED had shown, I'm sure that the RED engine 3 is going to make every jaws drop to the ground !

finding out the processing mechanism in another man's program is a very difficult work. but comparing your results with another, will give you a feel of how much more you've got to push forward. as most of computers have multi-core processing units these days, I believe that putting more time in parallel programming could work miracle.

 

[Gilrond-i-Virdan]

Most of the graphical calculations (such as fluid movements) happen on the GPU these days. Multicore CPU also helps but not as much as GPU for it.

 

[Preserver]

GPU is a graphical rendering unit, just like a worker. CPU calculations decide what to be rendered and when, just like an engineer. if CPU chose right, then GPU would be eased off a lot and the remaining power could be used for something else.

Edit:
computer is a combination of units that simultaneously cooperate with each other. a powerful engine should optimize this cooperation, not relying on a single unit.

 

[Gilrond-i-Virdan]

Sure, I was saying that the most intense load of actual graphics related calculations falls on the GPU these days. Sometimes the purpose of processing units can be generalized (with tools like CUDA and OpenCL), but this is not usually used in gaming.

 

[volsung]

I agree that game developers need to optimize their code (much) better, but I also agree that at least some of them might be heading in the right direction. For example, there is, or should be, parallel computing already present in modern games. A GPU is not entirely general purpose even when used in GPGPU compuring (like with CUDA) because its architecture limits what it can do. A SIMD --Single Instruction, Multiple Data-- device (like a GPU) has many processing units but data must be linearized and mapped in specific structures since all units replicate instructions on different data segments. That is to say, GPU programming in the gaming scene is probably already somewhat "parallel" but honestly I doubt it is very well designed.

A CPU is needed to actually feed the GPU, true, but the level of parallelism you can do on a single, consumer-level CPU (like any desktop Intel or AMD) is actually very limited.

In other words, I think game developers are incorporating some of these elements but they have yet to use them efficiently.

 

[Gilrond-i-Virdan]

There are some cases actually which use GPU for something besides graphics even in games. For example https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PhysX
I wonder how widespread such usage is though.

 

[volsung]

Err... I just mentioned GPGPU. General-purpose GPU computing is widely used in scientific computing because GPU's are extremely powerful, inexpensive SIMD devices, used extensively in number crunching applications like numerical methods, in areas such as computational physics, computational fluid dynamics, and so on.

Using GPU's for things other than graphics is extremely common nowadays, but there are entire teams of research scientists designing methods of doing this efficiently. I doubt most game developing companies out there have caught up with that.

 

[Gilrond-i-Virdan]

Yes, I was saying that there actually are real use cases in gaming. It's surely used in scientific research and for example in cryptography for quite some time already.

Just found this list: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_games_with_hardware-accelerated_PhysX_support

 

[umair2012]

Tomb Raider is Great game but I think her character was very well done . No cheap tricks to please teenagers , character had really great depth and maturity . Little bit more difficulty would have made it even better , still amazing game .

 

[Mataresa]

Tomb Raider is Great game but I think her character was very well done . No cheap tricks to please teenagers , character had really great depth and maturity . Little bit more difficulty would have made it even better , still amazing game .

Too many collectables though. Why the hell would she carry around all that stuff? And where, she didn't even have a bag pack. She becomes too strong too fast, basically shooting everyone. You never have to worry about ammunition. It was a pretty good title, but they missed some opportunities and it suffers a bit from the new generation gaming syndrome. Are there still performance problems with NVidia cards?

 

[avydia1.388]

Maybe I was mistaken, but I was focusing on Tomb Raider's graphics, not the gamplay (which is also really good).

My wish is that TW3 will feature the same , or hopefully better, level of astonishing graphics and engine optimization .

 

[Agent_Blue]

Maybe I was mistaken, but I was focusing on Tomb Raider's graphics, not the gamplay (which is also really good).

My wish is that TW3 will feature the same , or hopefully better, level of astonishing graphics and engine optimization .

Since you've played it and while we're on the subject, could you comment on her Batman senses feature? You know, the screen goes mostly black and white and relevant clues get highlighted for your convenience...

About TR2013 graphics. Judging from playthroughs on YouTube, they're nice. However, I can't seem to find them a quantum leap. I'd certainly expect next gen graphics to be quite superior.

 

[Mataresa]

TressFX was good, but to me didn't seem better than in Alice: Madness Returns

I only watched the first half of a Lets Play, but to me the Survival Instinct really got annoying. Of course it is always a matter of how much the player actually uses it. But I didn't really like the medallion highlighting in the second one either. I prefer, if objects actually are physically in the environment, then I can look for them myself, without having to highlight them. That is one thing I disliked in The Witcher, that you loot packages, but there is never any animation. At least with some of the bushes you could see afterwards, that you collected ingredients.

 

[avydia1.388]

Since you've played it and while we're on the subject, could you comment on her Batman senses feature?

By pressing LB you enter in an "instinct mode" that highlists points of interest and so on... Another feature that could be similar to the anticipated "witcher senses"... I like the way it works, it adds depth to the game mechanics simulating the superior abilities that heroes have.

Judging from playthroughs on YouTube, they're nice. However, I can't seem to find them a quantum leap. I'd certainly expect next gen graphics to be quite superior.

I think you should directly try the game...

 

[Agent_Blue]

By pressing LB you enter in an "instinct mode" that highlists points of interest and so on... Another feature that could be similar to the anticipated "witcher senses"... I like the way it works, it adds depth to the game mechanics simulating the superior abilities that heroes have.

Thanks for your input.

Depth? Really? You hold a key and the game gains depth? That's odd.
How does it stimulate "the superior abilities that heroes have"?
Forest Gump could hold a key.

I think you should directly try the game...

Honestly, I don't think I'd learn anything dramatic, compared to just watching a couple of 1080p Max settings PC playthroughs.

Graphics are nice. Not Earth-shattering.

 

[avydia1.388]

Depth? Really? You hold a key and the game gains depth? That's odd.
How does it stimulate "the superior abilities that heroes have"?
Forest Gump could hold a key.

Ok, I'll try to explain. (I'm not so familiar with english so forgive any errors etc)

Videogames are about "simulating" something, at least this is a definition that may relate to the majority of games.
When you got to simulate (not sTimulate) special "supernatural" abilities, superior senses etc, like Batman's detective intuition, Spiderman's spider senses etc, as a videogame designer you choose a "symbolic" way to represent that.

I think this is why Rocksteady had the brilliant idea to add Batman senses to the game. Some like that feature, some don't, but that's a "plus" in the game. Without it maybe the game would have been more challanging for someone, but "challange" isn't always the priority when making a good game. Challange is priority for the so-called "hardcore gamers". Everyone else like immersive, creative games.

That's why I say that the "altered senses" feature ADDS depth to the game... It's something more, it's a way to feel like you are the man. It adds a new mechanic besides "looking for things in the game ambient".

 

[Agent_Blue]

Ok, I'll try to explain. (I'm not so familiar with english so forgive any errors etc)

Videogames are about "simulating" something, at least this is a definition that may relate to the majority of games.
When you got to simulate (not sTimulate) special "supernatural" abilities, superior senses etc, like Batman's detective intuition, Spiderman's spider senses etc, as a videogame designer you choose a "symbolic" way to represent that.

I think this is why Rocksteady had the brilliant idea to add Batman senses to the game. Some like that feature, some don't, but that's a "plus" in the game. Without it maybe the game would have been more challanging for someone, but "challange" isn't always the priority when making a good game. Challange is priority for the so-called "hardcore gamers". Everyone else like immersive, creative games.

That's why I say that the "altered senses" feature ADDS depth to the game... It's something more, it's a way to feel like you are the man. It adds a new mechanic besides "looking for things in the game ambient".

I see what you mean now.
I wholeheartedly disagree, but that's a discussion we'll save for another thread.

 

[avydia1.388]

ok let's stick to the visual aspects.

So, is this the 1080p max setting video you mentioned ? Trust me when I say that it doesn't compare with the real in game graphics.

TR 1080p video

Anyway, it does show the camera "bouncing" when Lara runs... It's a cool "live camara recording" effect. I hope TW3 will feature a similar camera effect during Geralt's running or fighting.

 

[Agent_Blue]

ok let's stick to the visual aspects.

So, is this the 1080p max setting video you mentioned ? Trust me when I say that it doesn't compare with the real in game graphics.

TR 1080p video

Look.
I can see you're a fan. That's alright.
There's nothing mystical about reviewing graphics.

TR2013 graphics are good. Nothing particularly next gen about them, TressFXHair or no TressFXHair. This is what I have in mind when I say Next Gen. A Quantum Leap.