On missions

[darcler]

On missions

I've looked through the forum, but haven't found a topic devoted to quests in general. If I've overlooked something, I trust mods will kill the topic in no time

It has somehow came to be that quests became basic gameplay mechanic in CRPGs. Story, one could say, is but an envelope for quests, connecting them in particular order, sometimes setting them in certain hierarchy, or even complex web of dependencies, but it's the quests that guide players. They encompass all what players can do and all what they can experience. Good quests are the basis for a good CRPG game. But what is a good quest? How would you define it, and how would you define a bad quest? Is having good quests sufficient to have a good overall gaming experience, or is there something more? I'd be happy to hear your opinions.

 

[cmdr_silverbolt]

I sincerely hope that quests in this game are not cookie cutter for each class or role, and certainly the "starting out" quests should be different, for say a Fixer or a Corporate. I am really looking forward to playing some of the non-combat oriented roles like Corporate, so I hope they're not nixed due to lack of quests or creative ideas on how to utilize them.

 

[criusx]

I've got to say from my experience at playing 'Quest based games', the side quests did it for me. The development of the major characters and their back-stories to play out. I'm really a stealth player and hope to see some of those qualities show in 2027.

 

[wisdom000]

Exceuse me for being pedantic.... but in the first place they won't be called quests... they will be missions, or jobs, or just storylines, no one "quests" in Quests in cyberpunk...

Yes its just terminology, but terminology is a large part of the atmosphere, and the atmosphere is important.

 

[blank_redge]

Seems a lot of folks currently on this forum came over from the Witcher forums. Never having played any of the Witcher games (yes Sard, STILL,) I don't know how CDPR will approach the Jobs angle. While I do expect some of the standard sandbox fare like "fetch" missions and assassinations, I'm not put off by the idea. Y'know, as long as they're not ALL fetch and assassination missions.

 

[Sardukhar]

<Bangs head into wall>

Just try the damn game! Either of them!

 

[Garrison72]

Check this out. Gives you an idea on their design philosophy for monster hunting in TW3. Replace monsters with gangsters for the purpose of this thread.

http://www.gameinformer.com/b/featu...nster-hunting-in-the-witcher-3-wild-hunt.aspx


I can tell you in TW2 most quests were unique and multi-threaded, meaning various outcomes. This is their hallmark as a developer.

 

[d1am0ndback]

Quest is more of a word for fantasy rpgs. Here it can be called objective, mission, operation, job........

Anyways, I love the quests that change something significant or reward you well. Even something as small as a contract killing or a bank heist job should feel important as side jobs. People you kill or rob or whatever end up in scream sheets and detail how you handled it if not discreetly. Even random things you've done like kill a cop should have the NCPD be a lot more violent toward citizens in search of a cop killer.

 

[d1am0ndback]

Check this out. Gives you an idea on their design philosophy for monster hunting in TW3. Replace monsters with gangsters for the purpose of this thread.

http://www.gameinformer.com/b/featu...nster-hunting-in-the-witcher-3-wild-hunt.aspx


I can tell you in TW2 most quests were unique and mutl-threaded, meaning various outcomes. This is their hallmark as a developer.

I'm going to replace monsters with cops and corporates. They are the real bad guys not the gangs.

 

[dragonbird]

I've changed the title so that we don't keep getting sidetracked

And yes, it's worth looking at the link slimgrin gave to get an idea of CDPR's philisophy on sidequests. (Oops, sorry, I meant sidemissions). They had a few "kill 10 of this breed of monster and collect the body parts" quests in TW1, but there was always more of a story in the quests in TW2. I'd expect that same attitude to carry forward into CP77.

But if you really want to see their approach to monster-part-gathering quests in TW2, and don't intend to play the game, you might want to watch this. It was a free DLC quest that we were given with one of the patch updates. (Feel free to jump past the combat sections). I think it'll tell you more than you need to know.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgo7FNg_dzU

 

[wisdom000]

I've changed the title so that we don't keep getting sidetracked

And yes, it's worth looking at the link slimgrin gave to get an idea of CDPR's philisophy on sidequests. (Oops, sorry, I meant sidemissions). They had a few "kill 10 of this breed of monster and collect the body parts" quests in TW1, but there was always more of a story in the quests in TW2. I'd expect that same attitude to carry forward into CP77.

But if you really want to see their approach to monster-part-gathering quests in TW2, and don't intend to play the game, you might want to watch this. It was a free DLC quest that we were given with one of the patch updates. (Feel free to jump past the combat sections). I think it'll tell you more than you need to know.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgo7FNg_dzU

I watched the video... several things came to mind...

1. why is that creepy guy in the hills wearing hot pants... with a long sleeve jacket no less....

2. So... witcher fetch quests involve.... getting quest.... running 20 feet... killing monsters.......... running back 20 feet.... collect money..... rinse.... repeat.....?

Forgive me, but I really hope that if there is a Cyberpunk equivalent, that there is more to it than that....

On the other hand, the graphics were pretty... Why does the dude wear 2 swords at his back, and none on his hip?

 

[Lolssi83.811]

I'd like to possible different outcomes for missions of course. Maybe even possibility to fail it, but don't fail the mission if you don't agree with the agenda and don't wanna do it. Just give smaller reward by declining.
For example maybe you're offered to kill someone, but for whatever reason don't wanna do it and decline. At this point you could get fraction of experience that doing the hit would have given you, or perhaps the client now considers you a threat and tries to take you out. This could happen immediately or somewhere down the line.

Also would like to see Deus Ex kind of level design where there are several ways to reach the destination and not just meaning turn this intersection or the next, but more like sewers, windows and air ducts (if anyone actually makes those mansized air ducts?). But I'm not expecting to see that level of quality here really.

And more than anything I don't wanna end up going linear path next 20 minutes and killing enemy after enemy without anything else happening like conversation, cutscene etc.. (Looking at you DA: Origins. DA2 was already better paced on that regard.). Of course there can be few big facilities, but in those cases I'd like to see big groups of enemies on few locations and not conveniently placed one or two guys after another.

Plus I've always liked to solve murders and investigate in games so hopefully we see few of those

 

[dragonbird]

@Wisdom - I am so sorry​. I should never have subjected you to that! But just to clarify, spoof quest demonstrating all that's bad about fetch quests.

 

[wisdom000]

@Wisdom - I am so sorry​. I should never have subjected you to that! But just to clarify, spoof quest demonstrating all that's bad about fetch quests.

Wisdom isn't here right now... he saw something horrible and has gone away... to curl up in the shower and try and wash himself clean.... muttering something about "Cyberpunk musn't be like that.... it musn't....."

 

[Sunder]

I watched the video... several things came to mind...

1. why is that creepy guy in the hills wearing hot pants... with a long sleeve jacket no less....

2. So... witcher fetch quests involve.... getting quest.... running 20 feet... killing monsters.......... running back 20 feet.... collect money..... rinse.... repeat.....?

Forgive me, but I really hope that if there is a Cyberpunk equivalent, that there is more to it than that....

On the other hand, the graphics were pretty... Why does the dude wear 2 swords at his back, and none on his hip?

The whole quest-line is sort of a joke on the typical fetch quest. You get asked all the time to bring some NPC (I mean in general, not in Witcher 2) an item they need in a certain quantity and you get rewards. But here, you see what the harpy feathers get used for.

The 2 swords on his back: one is silver, the other is steel. However, they're both for monsters. The reason for them being on his back is that Geralt is technically a mutant with inhumanly quick reflexes and reaction time. The way he pulls them out of the scabbard/sheath is by slouching a bit and just throwing them out and grabbing them mid-air. I could be wrong about the last bit, it's been some while since I read the books.

 

[darcler]

Ok, quests, missions, I don't really care. Suit yourself

I'd like to possible different outcomes for missions of course. Maybe even possibility to fail it, but don't fail the mission if you don't agree with the agenda and don't wanna do it. Just give smaller reward by declining.

That's actually one of the things I wanted to discuss. In most games there is absolutely no reason for declining a mission (quest, whatever). What could possibly motivate me to refuse when someone's wanting me to do something for him? And reward me afterwards. Nothing, because missions/quests are the basis for CRPG gameplay, so when you decline a mission, you deprive yourself of, well, part of the game. Which is not what you'd want, is it?

So I would like that when I decline a mission, it would also have its implications. Declining is also a decision after all, so it should have weight and meaning just live any positive decisions you make (like accepting a mission). And I'm not talking about geting an immidiate reward, like XP or money or whatever, especially since it would be quite illogical. What I have in mind is for the decision to have some impact on the gameplay later on, like influencing your relations with this faction or that person, which in turn might evolve into something more and result in you getting goods or missions you might not get otherwise. This would encourage you to actually stop and think before you commit yourself to a mission. Obviously you'd have to have some clues as to what the mission could entail, otherwise it'll be just guessing blind, which is something I would not rather be forced to do.

Even more, after you accept a mission and get to the point where you start having second thoughts, there should be an option to back out. Obviously, this would have its own consequences, but will allow you to at least do some damage control.

 

[m0zleyv1bez]

I watched the video... several things came to mind...

1. why is that creepy guy in the hills wearing hot pants... with a long sleeve jacket no less....

2. So... witcher fetch quests involve.... getting quest.... running 20 feet... killing monsters.......... running back 20 feet.... collect money..... rinse.... repeat.....?

Forgive me, but I really hope that if there is a Cyberpunk equivalent, that there is more to it than that....

On the other hand, the graphics were pretty... Why does the dude wear 2 swords at his back, and none on his hip?

They aren't fetch quests like you see in alot of RPGs when you're low-level. Monster hunting is actually part of the lore in The Witcher as its actually Geralt's profession being a witcher. They talk about having to actually track and research the monster before you hunt, finding out about weaknesses and what equipment you need.

They gave examples like finding out a monster has 2 hearts so you can kill it easier or targeting a monster's venom glands to take away its poison ability. Though its the primary source of income in the game its more than that. You craft the best weapons and potions from these monsters you kill, with the strongest monsters yielding the best stuff of course. Then there's the fact that Geralt is a mutant so you gathers mutagens from monsters for new abilities, some you can only get from certain monsters.

This is all off-topic but I just wanted to show you there is more to it than just what you said, and it also applies to their thought process with CP2077 also. Imagine the kind of depth their putting in the gameplay systems of this game.

 

[wisdom000]

They aren't fetch quests like you see in alot of RPGs when you're low-level. Monster hunting is actually part of the lore in The Witcher as its actually Geralt's profession being a witcher. They talk about having to actually track and research the monster before you hunt, finding out about weaknesses and what equipment you need.

They gave examples like finding out a monster has 2 hearts so you can kill it easier or targeting a monster's venom glands to take away its poison ability. Though its the primary source of income in the game its more than that. You craft the best weapons and potions from these monsters you kill, with the strongest monsters yielding the best stuff of course. Then there's the fact that Geralt is a mutant so you gathers mutagens from monsters for new abilities, some you can only get from certain monsters.

This is all off-topic but I just wanted to show you there is more to it than just what you said, and it also applies to their thought process with CP2077 also. Imagine the kind of depth their putting in the gameplay systems of this game.

None of that sounds like it could even remotely translate into Cyberpunk............

 

[m0zleyv1bez]

None of that sounds like it could even remotely translate into Cyberpunk............

Lol I was pointing out the depth at which they go when it comes to monster hunting in The Witcher 3 as opposed to just killing giant possums in someone's garden in other RPGs.

It means alot and takes alot in The Witcher 3 to hunt monsters. I was using it as a comparison of how they use the lore to build gameplay experiences, sort of to get your mind thinking of how they might use the lore and world of Cyberpunk to build gameplay experiences in this game.

 

[Sardukhar]

"Missions"? Wisdom, what are you ON about? You know only mil/corp ops are "missions". "Jobs" and "work" are what freelancers do.

Missions is such a misnomer.