On the persecution of mages

[riotamus]

On the persecution of mages

It's a classic staple of 'gritty' fantasy, something that myopic and unenlightened rulers typically do, but I wonder if that's such an unconditionally 'wrong' thing. One can equate it to the persecution of science, but, while there might be reasons to keep science on a short leash as well, magic is definitely not science. Crucially, it's not objective or impersonal and requires that a practitioner has innate abilities (which also tends to make her feel superior to the others). Second, though I don't think it's mentioned in TW explicitly, in most settings magic is fueled by emotions, so a mage must always be on edge a bit, which makes them even more unstable and unlikely to contribute to society's well-being (since most emotions, especially the stronger ones, are profoundly asocial and egoistic). Lastly, in TW setting specifically, magic cannot be a viable long-term development strategy, since it's just a random residual from another world and is thus not sustainable in the long run.

So, to summarize, magic users en masse tend to destabilize society without adding anything truly useful. Of course, burning them at the stake is probably an over-reaction, but from a purely Machiavellian standpoint, getting rid of them in one way or another might be something a sensible ruler should consider.

That said, things like alchemy look more like science (meaning generally useful), and outlawing them can only be justified as 'collateral damage'.

 

[Willowhugger]

Magic is explictly the analogue for science in the setting of the Witcher. This is the equivalent of murdering all the Doctors, intellectuals, and philosophers in a kingdom. This isn't Warhammer or Dragon Age where magic poses a kind of metaphysical or existential risk to society, magic has not only served a vital religious as well as medicinal function in the setting but also served as a massive military benefit.

It's persecution is also treated as an analogue to the Holocaust given we see a lot of the imagery used in the "Now or Never" mission.

There's no ambiguity there.

Indeed, Radovid's magic-burning campaign really is even worse than his murder of nonhumans as that is going to make the North even more stupid, backward, and superstitious as well as deprive them of the ONE resource they had over Nilfgaard.

 

[Gerald01]

It's a classic staple of 'gritty' fantasy, something that myopic and unenlightened rulers typically do, but I wonder if that's such an unconditionally 'wrong' thing.

Both control over mages, including special duties, requirements, even physical restraints, is perfectly reasonable from the oppressor's pov. Same as mutants in the Marvel universe.
As you say, outright execution for innocents and state-sanctioned (if not directly managed) extermination is not.
I'm curious as to why you'd choose an utilitarian perspective though over a rights one (individual vs collective).


Having said that, there's really no completely analoguos situation in our world we can work our way from.

The key differences being: 1) they are born that way ergo not a willing choice (as could be an ideology)
2)while their nature is innate, their danger is only potential (versus let's say a man eating/harmful creature)
3)while their danger is potential, it derives from their being itself (unlike dangerous persona weapons)->back to point 1

 

[Willowhugger]

The thing is, of course, Philippa and the Lodge really ARE a threat to the stability of the North and at least a few of them are terrorists.

The actual story starts at 7:45

The Sorceresses part starts at 12:46

Sile, Philippa, Sabrina, and some Sorceresses I don't recognize were all there for the plan to drop a Spell of Mass Destruction on both sides to weaken Henselt.

It's a Terrorist AttackTM.

They're guilty.

No way around that.

Francesca Findabair is the worst of the lot.

However, punishing all mages everywhere is just silly. It also ignores the best person for catching a mage is another mage.

 

[riotamus]

Mostly playing the devil's advocate here, but the rationale is that having magic-users unchecked just does more harm than good. I believe it's still legal to be one if you don't practice it (if only because no one else would know). And even Radovid had some mages working for him, so what he could have used to his advantage, he did.

 

[Willowhugger]

Mostly playing the devil's advocate here, but the rationale is that having magic-users unchecked just does more harm than good. I believe it's still legal to be one if you don't practice it (if only because no one else would know). And even Radovid had some mages working for him, so what he could have used to his advantage, he did.

It's interesting because mages USED to be checked and had a fairly complicated system for checking them, actually. The Conclave insisted on a number of rules that were strictly enforced.

1. Mages were neutral in the wars of kings.
2. Mages were not to rule over dynasties.
3. Mages were to use their magic to help people (including themselves).
4. Mages were to be non-racist and work for social justice
5. Mages were to advance knowledge.

Then Vilgefortz had the mages participate in the Battle of Sodden before trying to betray the entire North to Nilfgaard.

The Conclave's reestablishment would be a very good thing.

 

[riotamus]

Ok, I'm probably profoundly unqualified to discuss magic in TW setting, but for the sake of argument, wasn't something like that bound to happen sooner or later? Magic is just fundamentally uncontrollable, so while the Conclave sounds good on paper, it's not sustainable in the long run.

 

[Willowhugger]

Ok, I'm probably profoundly unqualified to discuss magic in TW setting, but for the sake of argument, wasn't something like that bound to happen sooner or later? Magic is just fundamentally uncontrollable, so while the Conclave sounds good on paper, it's not sustainable in the long run.

Magic is incredibly controllable and requires years of careful study to practice but operates on safe, predictable, repeatable patterns. You can even put it into machines to make them work.

And the Conclave lasted like four centuries.

Most of the history of the human race on the Continent.

I guess what I'm saying is magic isn't really like other fantasy settings in the Witcher. The games treat it like it is, though, with a lot more "uncontrollable curses" and "persons of mass destruction" though.

 

[riotamus]

Ok, since I only played the games (which shows, I guess), I was assuming a more 'traditional' fantasy form of magic. Then again, theoretically it should be possible to discuss the games as separate works of art, since Sapkowski does not acknowledge them officially afaik, and they are probably even more popular than the books by now

 

[Willowhugger]

Ok, since I only played the games (which shows, I guess), I was assuming a more 'traditional' fantasy form of magic. Then again, theoretically it should be possible to discuss the games as separate works of art, since Sapkowski does not acknowledge them officially afaik, and they are probably even more popular than the books by now

Yeah, the games kind of go overboard trying to make magic "cool" like with the fact Sabrina is able to kill 3000 soldiers in the Pontar Valley or Triss is able to erect a magical shield which can defeat a small army.

Also, that magic can curse places forever.

It's cool but it causes plotholes as it makes you wonder why mages would be afraid of Witch Hunters and can't just snap their fingers and send them all away.

 

[Arch-Master]

Mages as the whole are kinda evil and terrible people as they are snobbish, egotistic elitarists who care only for themselves and their magic gifted collegues. It is probably because they are not brought up in normal families and instead bombarded with knowledge, luxury and learning. Possibly magic gift itself spoils them even further. Killing them all is a bit radical (and impractical) but having them under control is necessary unless you want to have a Lodge sucking up all the power.

Francesca Findabair is the worst of the lot.

Yet she was not present during the Lodge's terrorist attack.
(Yes I know she did do some nasty things but I would say other ladies did even worse)

 

[Ortwyn]

It's interesting because mages USED to be checked and had a fairly complicated system for checking them, actually. The Conclave insisted on a number of rules that were strictly enforced.

1. Mages were neutral in the wars of kings.
2. Mages were not to rule over dynasties.
3. Mages were to use their magic to help people (including themselves).
4. Mages were to be non-racist and work for social justice
5. Mages were to advance knowledge.

Then Vilgefortz had the mages participate in the Battle of Sodden before trying to betray the entire North to Nilfgaard.

Glorifying the Conclave? Firstly, how the Conclave was established?

Spoiler

‘The Gallery of Glory...’ muttered the witcher, coming up to the next canvas. ‘And here?’
‘The historic moment of the vocation of the first Chapter and the resolution of the Law. From the left: Herbert Stammelford, Aurora Henson, Ivo Richert, Agnes of Glanville, Geoffrey Monck and Radmir of Tor Carnedd. For the sake of accuracy, this painting also lacks in drama. Soon afterwards a very brutal war broke out, and all who opposed the Chapter and refused to follow the Law were slaughtered. Raffard the White, among others. But historical texts are silent about this, so as not to blemish the beautiful legend.’

Point 1) I would say they were neutral, because they had no intention to die in some stupid war. I am not sure if this is a part of the Law, I would guess it is not.

Point 2) This rule is the only one strictly enforced. However many mages were royal advisors and manipulated kings.

Spoiler

This is what now unites Yennefer and Francesca, Triss thought feverishly, still avoiding eye contact.The calculation. Because, what they did had something to do with parks and breeding rabbits. Yes, their plans for Ciri and Kovir’s king, although seemingly unlikely, are completely real. They have already done this. They place who they want on the thrones, they create links and dynasties as they wished, as it is more convenient for them. The used charms, potions and aphrodisiacs. The kings and queens enter into foreign marriages, often morganatic, against any plan, intentions and treaties. And then those who want children and should not are administered secret measures to prevent pregnancy. Those who did not want to have children, but it was necessary to do so are instead or the promised cured were given placebos, water with licorice. Hence, all these incredible connections. Calanthe, Pavetta... Ciri. Yennefer was involved in it. And now regrets it. And she is right. Heck, if Geralt finds out about it...

Point 3) I must give you REDpoint for this: Mages were to use their magic to help people (including themselves).

Yes, some of them really help people, but it is not the part of the Law.

Point 4) Some mages (Tissaia de Vries/Hen Gedymdeith) care about that, but certainly not all. Just look at all those wars between humans and elves that ended at Shaerrawedd.

Point 5) Mages advance knowledge, but again I doubt it is a part of the Law, rather a positive externality of their actions.

The Conclave's reestablishment would be a very good thing.

Agreed, at least it would be more transparent than the Lodge.

 

[Willowhugger]

To be fair, I actually was 100% with Philippa not Tissaia.

Tissaia was kind of a monster believing mages should love each other above their homelands, races, and religions.

She even sterialized mages for wanting to have children.

**** her.

It was perversely satisfying to watch her realize mages loved the North more than magic or Nilfgaard and they had no more in common than weavers on both sides of the war.

 

[Ortwyn]

To be fair, I actually was 100% with Philippa not Tissaia.

Sorry, but I have to strongly disagree.

Tissaia was kind of a monster believing mages should love each other above their homelands, races, and religions.

Monster, really? There are only two bad things she did. The Poisoned Source and releasing Vilgefortz. The former wil be discussed later. As for the latter, Tissaia genuinely believed that Vilgefortz was innocent and her former student Philippa Eilhart was just revealed as a traitor who conspired with kings and the one who broke the unity of Brotherhood.

She believed mages should love each other above their homelands? No, she believed that mages were responsible for the fate of the world. She believed that unity of Brotherhood is the key to make a life of ordinary people better.

Spoiler

‘Tissaia de Vries would have had it otherwise,’ said Francesca Findabair. ‘She was always been about the accountability to ordinary, simple people. Not in the future, but here and now.’

‘Tissaia de Vries, bless her memory, always cared about the fate of ordinary people.‘

Philippa established a secret, nontransparent organization that served only the affairs of magic.

What about races? Who intervened in favour of elves? Philippa? No, Tissaia.

Spoiler

‘The interests of kings do not necessarily coincide with ours. I know perfectly well what was going on. The kings began the extermination of the elves, and other non-humans. Maybe you, Philippa, you think it is right. Maybe you, Radcliffe, you think it appropriate to assist Demavend’s troops in a raid on Scoia’tael. But I am against it. And no wonder Enid Findabair is against you. But that still does not imply treason. Do not interrupt me! I know exactly what your kings planned, I know you want to start a war. Actions that could lead to the avoidance of war may constitute treason in the eyes of your Vizimir, but not mine. If you judge Vilgefortz and Francesca, also judge me!’

Religion? Mages do not care about religion and I have no clue why do you think some of them would prefer religion to magic.

She even sterialized mages for wanting to have children.

In fact, we do not know if she sterilized them, we only know she wanted to do it. The Poisoned Source is a demand. But I agree that it was not nice of her even though she had some good reasons (children of mages are much more likely to retarded).

It was perversely satisfying to watch her realize mages loved the North more than magic or Nilfgaard and they had no more in common than weavers on both sides of the war.

You think it is a virtue to love the North more than magic or Nilfgaard? I would say it is a virtue to care about ordinary people as Tissaia did. Tissaia de Vries was one of the few mages who had good intentions. She was honest. She helped Triss teleport Geralt from Thanedd and she saved Yennefer's life when she was young. Unfortunately she was a bit naive.

 

[Willowhugger]

Monster, really? There are only two bad things she did. The Poisoned Source and releasing Vilgefortz. The former wil be discussed later. As for the latter, Tissaia genuinely believed that Vilgefortz was innocent and her former student Philippa Eilhart was just revealed as a traitor who conspired with kings and the one who broke the unity of Brotherhood.

Tissaia basically didn't bother to listen to anything Philippa was saying because she acted as if the idea of Nilfgaard converting mages for power was LUDICROUS. Tissaia's actions broke the North and killed tens of thousands of people. She just couldn't imagine Nilfgaard was the bigger danger and haughtily ignored everything Philippa was saying.

She believed mages should love each other above their homelands? No, she believed that mages were responsible for the fate of the world. She believed that unity of Brotherhood is the key to make a life of ordinary people better.

And she was wrong. Dijkstra was a PEASANT and an ordinary man and she sneered because he didn't have the power of magic.

Religion? Mages do not care about religion and I have no clue why do you think some of them would prefer religion to magic.

*ahem* Erimond. A large number of priests are spell-casters as we see in the Last Wish where Geralt asks a priest if he can open a portal and he gets all defensive before admitting, "Yes, yes I can."

You think it is a virtue to love the North more than magic or Nilfgaard? I would say it is a virtue to care about ordinary people as Tissaia did. Tissaia de Vries was one of the few mages who had good intentions. She was honest. She helped Triss teleport Geralt from Thanedd and she saved Yennefer's life when she was young. Unfortunately she was a bit naive.

Because of her actions, Aedirn and Rivia burned. It's why she committed suicide because she loved her fellow mages more than the ones trying to defend the common people. On a basic level, I think Tissaia's contempt for the Northern kings blinded her to the fact they were the lesser evil.

She couldn't imagine mages would be blinded by "petty" things like race (Francesca), nationality (Philippa), or greed (Vilge)

I like her character but she had the idea the Conclave was the highest allegiance for mages when she was the ONLY one who believed in it like that.

Very haughty.

I pity her for having her illusions ripped away like they were.

 

[vivaxardas2015]

You can not truly understand Radovid's motives without playing TW2. Witch-hunts and massacres were not his initial strategy.
Recall the events on the summit: Letho testifies and accuses the Lodge with an implication that they represented interests of a much larger group (Letho: "The Lodge of sorceresses sought to remove those rulers who acted against the will of MAGES.") Radovid's initial raction was not "kill them all!!", you know. He is not king Jofferey. What Radovid wanted is "to arrest them all (those high-ranking mages present on a summit.) The court of law will reveal the traitors") The same attitude he took towards Philipa - she was to be tried for her crimes (well, eye-gauging incident was an expression of deep-seated childhood trauma, but still he did not choose to gut her, or torture to death right there and than).

But: Sile unleashed the dragon thus pretty much "confirming" Letho's testimony (the dragon controlled by the Lodge, went after Foltest, you know), and in the ensuing chaos most powerful and important mages (exactly the ones who Radovid would suspect the most) managed to flee. Now Radovid has a bunch of enemies who can teleport and burn him to crisps while he is on a crapper, for example, and he has no means of defending himself. Not good. I am pretty understanding here. Personally, even though I would act differently on a summit, at this point I may deal with the mages exactly as Radovid does.

Does not matter how powerful, the mages are still people, and, if to go with Hobbes' views on the matter, they are vulnerable. They need to eat, to sleep, to have shelter. Even a child can kill a sleeping man, does not matter if that guy is a bloody world kick-boxing champion.
To Radovid's benefit, mages are well in the super-structure of the society. They spent all their lives in the labs and libraries, and thus absolutely unequipped to deal with brute realities - they have no idea how to produce food, hunt, build a shelter, and so on. The way to make them to forget about killing Radovid is to make them miserable, on the run, sleep-deprived, with no one to harbor them and provide assistance. Thus, witch-hunts.

1. The North has the entire magic economy, with close ties. In general, the mages are more likely to have other mages, as well as alchemists, herbalists, and other practitioners, as their associates. Starting to hunt them as well would ensure that they will be in no position to help. At the same time bounty money will practically guarantee that ordinary people, who practically never associated with the mages, would prefer to turn them in. The mages, for example, won't be able to get shelter in inns, to buy food from merchants and farmers.

2. The mages may try to pass for village witches, healers, and herbalists. We see exactly this in Keira's case. Thus, even though, realistically, low-level practitioners had nothing to do with assassinations, and wouldn't make any problems for Radovid, they have to be exterminated. As Roche, who was actually much smarter in TW2 remarked on a matter, "you can't make an omelet without breaking the eggs."

3. Persecutions would please the knight of the flaming rose (probably the best fighting force Redania has), and would provide ordinary people with answers. As Dandellion told in TW2, the worst thing unleashed by assassinations is chaos in human minds, because people have no idea who and what to believe anymore. With witch-hunts the "enemy" is made knows, and people can be united by a common goal.

So it is way more sophisticated than just some insanity from a crazy king who wants to eat his chess set. Witch-hunts actually make sense, and, though unpleasant, they are a pretty successful strategy in dealing with the mages. Given information Radovid has, he is pretty much warranted to conduct them. Sure, it is very unsavory and cruel to kill off obviously innocent people just in order to flush out and kill a small group, but imagine if Radovid is actually right, and a group of very powerful mages are traitors bent of world domination? Would it be still a "holocaust" or just a grim necessity?

It is such a shame that TW3 lost a lot of nuanced complexity of TW2. I do hope CDPR would expnd on this stuff in TW3 EE though.

 

[Ortwyn]

Tissaia basically didn't bother to listen to anything Philippa was saying because she acted as if the idea of Nilfgaard converting mages for power was LUDICROUS. Tissaia's actions broke the North and killed tens of thousands of people. She just couldn't imagine Nilfgaard was the bigger danger and haughtily ignored everything Philippa was saying.

Maybe you should try to be more neutral and abandon your anti-Nilfgaard, pro-North approach.

Why Tissaia did not trust Philippa? Because she attacked members of Brotherhood, innocent Hen Gedymdeith died in the process and Philippa showed no remorse? Because Philippa had a strong position at Vizimir's court and was more loyal to her own ambitions than to Brotherhood? I intentionally didn't say she was loayl to Vizimir, because she is the one who is suspected to help the assassin to murder Redanian king. Because mages who were loyal to kings agreed with extermination of elves and attacking Nilfgaard?

’Discussions began. Tissaia and the neutrals shouted at us, we yelled at them. And Vilgefortz remained silent and smiled...’

Tissaia was not the only one who did not trust Philippa and her accomplices. So far there was no direct evidence against Vilgefortz, but Philippa has already betrayed the Brotherhood, that was the only fact from POV of neutral ones. What happened then? Ciri came and began to prophesize about the provocation in Dol Angra. She was in trance and could not lie. What Philippa did? Something EXTREMELY STUPID. If some neutral mage trusted her so far, this changed. Because she denied everything and thus proved herself untrustworthy. If Philippa was honest, maybe she would convince Tissaia. But she wasn't.

When I read the saga before, I also wondered how experienced mage Tissaia de Vries might have done something so stupid. But then I changed my opinion. Why? Because she could trust Philippa or Vilgefortz. Philippa proved herself to be an untrustworthy lier who feels no remorse and is extremely ambitious. Vilgefortz was the hero from Sodden Hill and played the role of victim of Philippa's ambition.

Honestly, if you had the same information as Tissaia had, what would you do?

My conclusion is: Tissaia made a mistake, but Philippa did too.

Tissaia's actions broke the North and killed tens of thousands of people? I do not think so. If royal mages had such a good relations with kings, why were they exiled (Montecalvo threesome - Philippa, Triss, Keira)? Mages were still a major advantage of the North. And please, tell me who provoked Nilfgaard in Dol Angra and gave Emhyr nice casus belli? Who treated elves in such a way that they joined Emhyr? Who rules the poorest regions in the civilized part of the Continent?

You claim that Conclave should be reestablished and that mages should be neutral in the wars of kings and help to build non-racist society. Tissaia had the same opinion. But royal mages? No, they tolerate the extermination of elves.

And she was wrong. Dijkstra was a PEASANT and an ordinary man and she sneered because he didn't have the power of magic.

Citation needed. But if she sneered it was not because he didn't have the power of magic. Geralt is only a witcher (many mages consider his magic ridiculous), but Tissaia smiled at him warmly. Later he helped Triss to save him, because he was worth it.

*ahem* Erimond. A large number of priests are spell-casters as we see in the Last Wish where Geralt asks a priest if he can open a portal and he gets all defensive before admitting, "Yes, yes I can."

Who is Erimond? I assume he is not a character from TW. I know the priest, but I do not see any relation to Tissaia.

Because of her actions, Aedirn and Rivia burned. It's why she committed suicide because she loved her fellow mages more than the ones trying to defend the common people. On a basic level, I think Tissaia's contempt for the Northern kings blinded her to the fact they were the lesser evil.

She couldn't imagine mages would be blinded by "petty" things like race (Francesca), nationality (Philippa), or greed (Vilge)

I like her character but she had the idea the Conclave was the highest allegiance for mages when she was the ONLY one who believed in it like that.

Very haughty.

I pity her for having her illusions ripped away like they were.

As I said she believed that mages were responsible for the fate of the world and that unity of Brotherhood is the key to make a life of ordinary people better. She commited the suicide, because her world disintegrated. She could not live in the chaos without Brotherhood of Sorcerers, the institution that would guarantee the order. She could not live in a world where despicable kings persecute elves, despicable mages follow personal ambitions and betray each other and despicable Emperor of Nilfgaard is coming to subdue the North. The world in which the ordinary man suffers the most.

Please tell me who are the ones defending common people. I see the oned who defend their titles and positions, I see despicable Northern kings who waged petty wars between themselves before Nilfgaard started to threaten them, the leaders who lack wisdom and whose characters are so much flawed. And I see their royal advisors, arrogant and untrustworthy, who are not much better than their kings.

What a pity that there are so few mages like Tissaia who do not follow personal ambitions and genuinely care for commoners.

 

[Willowhugger]

A valiant defense.

In the end, though, I saw someone who loved magic more than good.

And killed herself when she realized it.

But I understand and respect your interpretation.

 

[Scholdarr.452]

Tissaia basically didn't bother to listen to anything Philippa was saying because she acted as if the idea of Nilfgaard converting mages for power was LUDICROUS. Tissaia's actions broke the North and killed tens of thousands of people. She just couldn't imagine Nilfgaard was the bigger danger and haughtily ignored everything Philippa was saying.

Nilfgaard wasn't the bigger danger. Actually the events at Thanedd didn't have any big influence on the war at all. The war would have started no matter what. And it was the North who wanted that war as much as Nilfgaard wanted it. Philippa wouldn't have changed that. And you seem to forget that Philippa doesn't really care about the North at all herself. All she cares about is her own power and the power of the mages. The North is just a tool for her, as Emhyr is a tool for Francesca and Vilegfortz. There are some mages like Triss who are a bit better but Philippa is easily a bigger egomaniac than Tissaia and cerntainly bigger thread to whole mankind. I think Philippa Eilhard is one of the most despicable characters in the whole world, coming right after Bonhard and Vilgefortz.

Tissaia is more or less apolitical but I don't think that makes her a monster. She made a mistake, yes, but without her the whole thing would have gone sideways anyway. Her biggest failure is arrogance and ignorance. That's nothing against the basically completely amoralic and egomaniac Philippa.

Because of her actions, Aedirn and Rivia burned. It's why she committed suicide because she loved her fellow mages more than the ones trying to defend the common people. On a basic level, I think Tissaia's contempt for the Northern kings blinded her to the fact they were the lesser evil.

Nope. Tissaia doesn't give a shit about Aedirn and Rivia. They would have burnt no matter what. She committed suicide because it was her who enabled the council to fight against each other. She commited suicide because her actions allowed Scoia'tael to enter Thanedd and kill mages. Again, Tissaia is more or less apolitical. She cares about the mages and magic itself and not about Nilfgaard or the North.

She couldn't imagine mages would be blinded by "petty" things like race (Francesca), nationality (Philippa), or greed (Vilge)

That was indeed her biggest mistake. But by the way, Vilgefortz basic motivation wasn't greed...

I like her character but she had the idea the Conclave was the highest allegiance for mages when she was the ONLY one who believed in it like that.

Very haughty.

I pity her for having her illusions ripped away like they were.

That's pretty arrogant of you tbh. Tissaia was one of the few who stayed true to her principles, who didn't get corrupted like all the other ones. Actually that makes her pretty similar to Geralt. Always pissing against the wind, even if he is the only one. Just saying...

 

[Willowhugger]

That was indeed her biggest mistake. But by the way, Vilgefortz basic motivation wasn't greed...

Eh, yeah, but I'm not sure how deep we want to get into placenta and world domination and being the hidden master behind everything.

Nilfgaard wasn't the bigger danger. Actually the events at Thanedd didn't have any big influence on the war at all. The war would have started no matter what. And it was the North who wanted that war as much as Nilfgaard wanted it. Philippa wouldn't have changed that. And you seem to forget that Philippa doesn't really care about the North at all herself. All she cares about is her own power and the power of the mages. The North is just a tool for her, as Emhyr is a tool for Francesca and Vilegfortz. There are some mages like Triss who are a bit better but Philippa is easily a bigger egomaniac than Tissaia and cerntainly bigger thread to whole mankind. I think Philippa Eilhard is one of the most despicable characters in the whole world, coming right after Bonhard and Vilgefortz.

What kind of insane world do we live in that I'm called to defend Philippa Eilhart. I believe Philippa Eilhart is sincere in her desire for an egalitarian, nonhuman race protected, and well-ruled North. It's just Philippa believes she's the best person to bring that about and, if not for the fact she's utterly RUTHLESS in the pursuit of this ambition, I think she has a decent claim to actually being the best person for the job. I really liked the depiction of her in AOK because I felt it captured the duality of her character in that she would murder her strongest ally as well as lover (Dijkstra) plus the King of Redania (also an ally) because she feels she needs to hold that sort of power.

It's why I think Wild Hunt did her wrong because Philippa would never serve Nilfgaard.

And the events at Thanedd deprived the North of mages as a military defense.

Nope. Tissaia doesn't give a shit about Aedirn and Rivia. They would have burnt no matter what. She committed suicide because it was her who enabled the council to fight against each other. She commited suicide because her actions allowed Scoia'tael to enter Thanedd and kill mages. Again, Tissaia is more or less apolitical. She cares about the mages and magic itself and not about Nilfgaard or the North.

Tissaia specifically cites the common people she "betrayed" during the section of the book which results in her suicide.

Her servant. An ordinary woman. An ordinary human with eyes full of fear about what was happening. An ordinary human, adrift in these times of contempt. An ordinary human, searching in her – in an enchantress – for hope and certainty about tomorrow . . .

An ordinary human whose trust she had betrayed.