On the purpose of a public forum (and its moderation)

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On the purpose of a public forum (and its moderation)

The second time in a row, a topic about The War on Terrorism Pirates got closed, because people expressed different opinions and didn't solve the world's problems in that topic. I thought that the purpose of a forum was to discuss different opinions, not getting bashed over the head by arbitrary censure, having the debate closed down just because "it is not going anywhere." Please correct me if I'm wrong, otherwise stop shutting people up on a whim. Thank you.
 
Would you rather the moderator was more explicit about the reason for closure, such as that it had degenerated into a mere exchange of insults, and members who didn't stop it at once would have to be suspended?
 
If you have a problem with me or the way i moderate topics then you are free to discuss your displeasure with Keth or MM360 . If you had bothered to PM me i would have told you why the thread was closed . But as you didn`t and decided to take it publicly then so be it . Yes the thread was locked...both of them . In the second thread i posted that if members wanted to discuss such topics then please do so via PM`s No i will not let a topic get so out of hand that the only recourse for members is to berate one another .
 
Tommy said:
In the second thread i posted that if members wanted to discuss such topics then please do so via PM`s
Yes, that is exactly my point; in a forum, debate should be encouraged, not private messages. Also, if some users are out of line with their postings, it's not a reason to punish everyone by locking the topics they are discussing in. Which, incidentally, seem to be only the ones that criticize CDPR directly. If that is the only reason for closing down the threads as they arise, it severly injures the right of free speech. And makes users feel unjustly manhandled into the helpless situation of not being allowed to speak for themselves (hence my opening a new topic for this).

I don't have a problem with you personally, but from my own experience, moderators have to abide by a set of rules, too. Like showing the same respect to the users they expect to get from them.
 
In both topics the subject of piracy came up and this is a difficult path to walk on . The forum rules state that
1. General Provisions and Basic Principles
The following principles are in effect for all pages and subpages of the www.thewitcher.com domain.
• Each time a user logs in and/or contributes to www.thewitcher.com, said user is considered to have acknowledged and accepted the provisions set out hereunder, as well as any and all amendments thereto.
• www.thewitcher.com is the property of CD Projekt RED and as such is continually monitored by forum moderators and CD Projekt RED staff. Moderators and staff have the right to remove any comments or block a user’s ability to add further comments without providing justification for any such action.
• The decisions of forum moderators or CD Projekt RED staff concerning a given user, as well as any related opinions expressed by any of these parties, shall be considered confidential to said parties. As such, they shall not be discussed on www.thewitcher.com.
• CD Projekt RED as the owner and operator of www.thewitcher.com shall not bear responsibility for any comments or content posted by users on www.thewitcher.com. The views and opinions posted by users shall be considered solely their own.

2. Detailed Provisions
Polish law
• All acts forbidden under Polish law are also forbidden on www.thewitcher.com. This shall include but not be limited to the publication of posts:
- advocating or in any way contributing to the violation of copyright laws,
- promoting alcoholic beverages, other intoxicating substances and narcotics, as well as their use,
- the content of which could be considered pornographic, sexist, racist, etc.,
- the content of which could be construed as insulting to third parties or other users of www.thewitcher.com,
- revealing private correspondence, where publication of said correspondence occurs without the consent of its author or authors.

The complete rules are http://en.thewitcher.com/forum/index.php?/topic/24056-forum-rules-and-regulations/ . As i said before in my first post follow the link to talk with Keth or MM360 ...your choice .
 
So talking about piracy is the same as advocating for it? Really?

There was also no trolling or a flame war going on there, certainly there was different ideas but it was a civil conversation.
 
CostinMoroianu said:
So talking about piracy is the same as advocating for it? Really?

There was also no trolling or a flame war going on there, certainly there was different ideas but it was a civil conversation.
It seems you`re turning around what i said . I said that piracy came up and that it was a difficult path to walk nothing more, nothing less . You say there was no trolling or flaming and i saw it differently...end of story .
 
If you're not interested in replying to my legit and reasonable concerns, then don't. But please don't insult me by quoting rules that don't even relate to what I've said. Again, I never meant to make this personal, but I'd like to be allowed to speak up when I feel bad about what happens here. And I apprechiate being talked to like an adult, as long as I don't violate any rules myself.
 
• www.thewitcher.com is the property of CD Projekt RED and as such is continually monitored by forum moderators and CD Projekt RED staff. Moderators and staff have the right to remove any comments or block a user’s ability to add further comments without providing justification for any such action.


- the content of which could be construed as insulting to third parties or other users of www.thewitcher.com,


Alright then the above two should be enough .

EDIT : I suggest to go back and read read both threads carefully .
 
CostinMoroianu said:
There was also no trolling or a flame war going on there, certainly there was different ideas but it was a civil conversation.
That's the impression I had, as well, from following these two recent threads; people of different viewpoints, passionately arguing their respective opinions on said topic(s).

CostinMoroianu said:
So talking about piracy is the same as advocating for it? Really?
Again, I did not see any actual advocating, either, so I'm also perplexed.

CostinMoroianu said:
I said that piracy came up and that it was a difficult path to walk nothing more, nothing less .
Of course the topic of piracy will come up in threads that are about piracy.

CostinMoroianu said:
You say there was no trolling or flaming and i saw it differently...end of story .
So, I assume there were several reports coming in, on various posts in there, of several users behaving out of line? If not, you cannot assume that others share your opinion on things getting out of hand. When a few people are behaving inappropriately, it is much better to reprimand those specific individuals (to whichever extent deemed appropriate), rather than to immediately close down the entire thread. I bet most people active in the discussion were actually quite happy to be a part of it, exchanging thoughts and ideas on a topic that lies very close to home for all of us here - be they for or against, or somewhere in between - and were thus quite bummed to see both topics locked like this.

CostinMoroianu said:
• www.thewitcher.com is the property of CD Projekt RED and as such is continually monitored by forum moderators and CD Projekt RED staff. Moderators and staff have the right to remove any comments or block a user’s ability to add further comments without providing justification for any such action.
This pertains to individuals, which I mentioned already is a more popular course of action when topics may risk going off the deep end. Rather than silencing the debate altogether, I am certain many users would prefer it if the moderators gave the actual offenders a slap on the wrist and take it from there.
 
I am not here to question the mods or CDPs standpoint regarding the closing of those topics.

It's just two thoughts I have, which I like to express:

1. It was a discussion about piracy. And in a good discussion there should always be arguments that are positive to any of the sides. - So here this means, that there should be arguments and opinions which favour piracy (or at least be for it for the discussion's sake - to be countered later).

But then again, this may get you (the mods) or CDP into trouble (legally) so I fully understand your actions, though it's a little sad regarding the ideals of discussions, democracy and the right to think and speak your opinion freely.

2. It was a somewhat passionate discussion, that's for sure. And at some point it's alright to say: "Now we all agree to disagree. Topic closed."

But what strikes me as a little odd and what some others may also be mainly disappointed about is that CDP never made an official statement (at least none that I know of) and didn't respond in those threads either (maybe even to clarify some things). - Maybe it's due to not wanting to spoil investigations, maybe it's because the PR people are already in their (well deserved) holydays, maybe it's because those pro piracy posts. But some answer from CDP (at least to show, that they were reading along) would have been nice.
 
I`ll tell you what i`m going to do . If any other moderator feels like reopening the threads then so be it . If not then they stay closed . I will not reopen either one .

From my perspective "passionately arguing " can turn into heated fights with name calling in no time and we have better things to do than to keep checking on one thread to make sure everyone acts with proper forum etiquette .

I also believe i have the right as other users do to not be insulted or harassed .

If any member feels that i am not doing my job correctly can contact Keth or MM360 as per my first post .
 
Tommy said:
From my perspective "passionately arguing " can turn into heated fights with name calling in no time and we have better things to do than to keep checking on one thread to make sure everyone acts with proper forum etiquette .

Tommy, I think you're a wonderful moderator and you're doing your job just right, I don't think anyone can disagree. However, what you said here and what you said upon closing the topic makes me think you closed it as a pre-caution, so mods and admins don't have to keep checking the thread to see if anyone went out of line. I know it's in best interest but, nobody was flaming, trolling nor being pro-piracy (there were comments that argued why someone would pirate, but absolutely no-one said it's the right thing to do). As Andr01d said, you need such opinions so they can be countered, that's how discussions work. The thread was closed because of what might have happened (but didn't) and I think that's where users are seeing a problem.
 
The problem is , most topics about piracy issues starts out innocent, then slowly descend into heated arguments and passionate words.

I understand Tommy's stance on this and I don't blame him. Guys, just let this one go in peace. It's no big deal.
 
Darspiron said:
The problem is , most topics about piracy issues starts out innocent, then slowly descend into heated arguments and passionate words.

I understand Tommy's stance on this and I don't blame him. Guys, just let this one go in peace. It's no big deal.

Just because something can end badly doesn't mean it will, that's my stance on this.
 
I understand your point but if we let what might happen actually happen then it`s too late to do anything about it except maybe ban people and i don`t think anyone wants that .

So as to better explain myself (mods) do not like closing threads , we really don`t but at the same time we have to determine to the best of our ability what is best for the forum . For instance if we let a thread go to the point where some not so normal words are strewn about , the name calling and what not before a thread gets locked and users banned and we have 2-3 newcomers stop by and start looking at how people are acting within the forum and see the thread in question and start reading , then get the impression that okay these people are not so nice and leave never to return .

Now another scenario 2 or more regular members are discussing a topic and get into a heated argument and we(mods) are too late in containing the matter then 1 or both leave the forum and maybe come back but as is more than likely they won`t because of hard feelings .
 
Aaaaalriiight

I'll try to clarify a little both our reasons (which I assume was Tommy's reason too) and our positions.

There are moments where a case is a little borderline with forum rules and this is a real pain in the ass for us moderators. It is most likely walking on eggs or trying to square the circle.

In our first stance, we kept an eyes on the topic and talked about it into the backstage. We disagreed about how to deal with it, to say the truth I was the one who wanted to lock it very soon, but I was outnumbered by different opinions, saying the opposite: keeping it open or we would have come into a similar situation like this one. This is already happen before, uh uh.

I'll show you this examples here:

pirated games are better, less bugs etc. I torrented your stuff, Devs, coz you do not release any demo. People torrented because there are no demo, Devs should have released one instead. People pirated this to test on their system, I'm not buying a game if I don't know if I can play it or not. X% of pirates will buy the game sooner or lates and Devs know this, they're simply wanna make extra bucks.


Piracy is not a crime. It is nasty, and immoral, but it's not a crime. What Devs are gonna do to track them is highly immoral. X% of pirates are potential customers but with this terroristic anti piracy politics, Devs will certainly discourage them. I am a legal customers, but if Devs will follow this path I'm not gonna buy any future game from them. I do not think that piracy really hurts the sales and the incomes, since a x% of pirates are potential customers, they play the game of the big bad company scaring the lil customer.


In these few lines there are different cases of subtle\not subtle advocating piracy. It is difficult for us-mods to decide which of these are borderline and which are breaking the rules. So we simply try to take a decision case by case.
If you ask me, most of these cases are borderline and I would let em do. A few others are discussable and a few others are definitly out of the rules.

Now, excuse me, but this was the content of a larger part of the posts in the thread, like or not.
If you like, I can reopen the thread, but please lets at least admit that this is quite the truth.
 
Nope, I say let the thread stay locked. No need to tickle a can of potential sh#t-storm. It is better to try to keep a bad thing from happening than it is to fix the bad thing once it has happened, (wow, sometimes I amaze myself with the awesome crap I say)
 
Yeah, I gotta admit that it's true what you say secondchildren.
That's about the main reason why I stepped into the second thread trying to support CDPs actions with my arguments.


I think it's the problem that within this whole piracy discussion it's generally hard to draw any lines between the justification of anti capitalistic motivations, crime, legal actions against crime, (imagined) censorship and democratically or libertarian motivated actions against said censorship.

And in retrospect it's probably the best to stop those discussions since they only leave disappointment in their wake because the topic is far too complex for an easy and/or satisfying conclusion in any discussion and because there has been no official statement to clarify things so only assumptions and passionate arguments and personal beliefs remain.

But then again it's disappointing to have such a topic that defiles the ideals of democracy and discussion in such a way.

~edit~
Sorry to babble so much. I'm an idealist. - Sadly, 'coz it makes it quite hard for me sometimes.
 
I would personally want the topic reopened, since just because something can become very heated and a shitstorm doesn't mean it should be closed before it does.
 
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