One story beat I hope they avoid in Cyberpunk 2

[LeKill3rFou]

Please point out to me where in the Sun ending they got a cure for what mikoshi did to V and isn't going to be dead in months.

Not "explicitly" showed but Mr Blue Eyes clearly said :
V : Guess that's why you hired me.
Mr Blue Eyes : Huh. You know why I hired you ? Because you'd do anything at all for even the faintest chance at survival. Even if it meant coming to within a hair's breath of your untimely death.
V : I'm primed for this.

Spoiler: Right Time

So in theory, that's what V looking for by doing the job (a chance of survival).
But "a chance" doesn't mean it'll be sure, nor even if Mr Blue Eyes will keep his word (not a trustworthy dude^^), but that's my opinion. Some can see that as a possible cure after the heist.

 

[LadyMiseryAli]

Please point out to me where in the Sun ending they got a cure for what mikoshi did to V and isn't going to be dead in months. That he isn't doing all this just to solidify his status as a legend before he dies soon as, in that ending, is what is most important to him/her. I must have missed that.

The screen fades to black, as it does with ALL the endings. It's a cliffhanger, meaning we don't know. But V does not die. That was my point. Also, my V didn't agree to a suicide mission. They agreed to one more gig for a cure, so...

 

[Gothic_Wizard]

The screen fades to black, as it does with ALL the endings. It's a cliffhanger, meaning we don't know. But V does not die. That was my point. Also, my V didn't agree to a suicide mission. They agreed to one more gig for a cure, so...

Right him/her hitting the orbital casino isn't my issue. I am not saying they don't survive that as you said it's left ambiguous. What ISN'T ambiguous is the process to remove the chip is slowly killing V. I have no issue saying V survived the casino heist. But they are STILL going to die. EVERY ending states that as the ultimate outcome. Some are more hopeful like the Nomad one (Since the Star tarot can be about hope), but even that one is a long shot which both V and Panam elude to. Short of some miracle that is never stated as happened V IS going to die in months.

Post automatically merged: Dec 26, 2022

Not "explicitly" showed but Mr Blue Eyes clearly said :
V : Guess that's why you hired me.
Mr Blue Eyes : Huh. You know why I hired you ? Because you'd do anything at all for even the faintest chance at survival. Even if it meant coming to within a hair's breath of your untimely death.
V : I'm primed for this.

Spoiler: Right Time

So in theory, that's what V looking for by doing the job (a chance of survival).
But "a chance" doesn't mean it'll be sure, nor even if Mr Blue Eyes will keep his word (not a trustworthy dude^^), but that's my opinion. Some can see that as a possible cure after the heist.

ahh I forgot about that line of dialog. Fair, however that really is no different than Panam in the Star ending saying she knows a guy that may be able to help. It's both grasping at straws and we can make up our own head canon as to what really happened when all is said and done.

That said, I *DO* hope CDPR does NOT pull a White Wolf which never explicitly stated what ending was canon for the game for the sequel (Bloodlines 1 vs 2). It was VERY frustrating to the fan base. I hope they so state what the official ending was so we can all move on knowing what happened in Orion. Not sure we need to play V again but even just having a character/NPC you meet talking about it in passing would be nice. I could see arguments for any of the endings to be considered canon it's really hard to say.

 

[LadyMiseryAli]

Right him/her hitting the orbital casino isn't my issue. I am not saying they don't survive that as you said it's left ambiguous. What ISN'T ambiguous is the process to remove the chip is slowly killing V. I have no issue saying V survived the casino heist. But they are STILL going to die. EVERY ending states that as the ultimate outcome. Some are more hopeful like the Nomad one (Since the Star tarot can be about hope), but even that one is a long shot which both V and Panam elude to. Short of some miracle that is never stated as happened V IS going to die in months.

The thing is that you don't know this. None of us know because the game ends. That's my point that keeps getting ignored. We don't know what happens. That's the thing that is frustrating me at the moment. Leaving the endings like they are and then abandoning V is a shitty thing to do to players, especially those attached to their OCs. I don't believe that my Vs would accept death, accept their fate. That is why they took the gig from Blue Eyes. I would like to see a continuation of V's story because it is incomplete.

 

[Gothic_Wizard]

The thing is that you don't know this. None of us know because the game ends. That's my point that keeps getting ignored. We don't know what happens. That's the thing that is frustrating me at the moment. Leaving the endings like they are and then abandoning V is a shitty thing to do to players, especially those attached to their OCs. I don't believe that my Vs would accept death, accept their fate. That is why they took the gig from Blue Eyes. I would like to see a continuation of V's story because it is incomplete.

And that's fair, why I said above I hope they don't pull a White Wolf and leave the canon ending ambiguous in Orion. Just for some closure.

That said, you can't prove a negative. The last thing that was confirmed is V is dying in half a year or less in EVERY endings (minus giving up to JS). So that is what I am going on. None of the endings beyond a wing and a prayer hope contradicted that. That's my point.

 

[LadyMiseryAli]

And that's fair, why I said above I hope they don't pull a White Wolf and leave the canon ending ambiguous in Orion. Just for some closure.

That said, you can't prove a negative. The last thing that was confirmed is V is dying in half a year or less in EVERY endings (minus giving up to JS). So that is what I am going on. None of the endings beyond a wing and a prayer hope contradicted that. That's my point.

Leaving things open and abandoning the original protag is a good way to upset an audience that wants their OC to either be playable or get a proper conclusion. I hope they avoid that and maybe change their mind on the single expansion if they're going down the route of a new protag.

Alt is the one who gives V the 'six months' prognosis. She doesn't seem to give a shit about V past their deal, so don't believe her when she claims there's nothing that can be done. I think Mr. Blue Eyes has a solution or knows who does. And since I think it's clear there will be no agreement from either of our ends on this, I'll probably be bowing out of this discussion before things get too heated.

 

[LeKill3rFou]

Alt is the one who gives V the 'six months' prognosis. She doesn't seem to give a shit about V past their deal, so don't believe her when she claims there's nothing that can be done. I think Mr. Blue Eyes has a solution or knows who does.

Just to add that Asaraka's experts also give 6 months to live to V, but they probably don't give a shit to V too (at least, Alt don't have any reason to lie to V. She got want what she wanted, so the fact that V live or not doesn't matter anymore...)

On the other side, like I already said, nothing prove that Mr Blue Eyes can be trusted. All we know about him, it's that he work for an unknow and powerful "force" which brainwash people ("force" which already had threatened V before talk to Jefferson during Dream On). In my opinion, it doesn't inspire confidence at all... Because it could turn exactly like with the Voodoo Boys who promised (and gave their word) to help V, and we know how it end...

Funny thing, it's in the trailer of the expansion
Johnny said (to V I guess) : "How many times you gotta take a bullet for these motherfuckers in the name of empty promises ?"

 

[PrinnyWesker]

Has anyone brought up that 2077's main campaign is spun out of the 'Never Fade Away' campaign from the core rulebook?

The game is essentially a followup to the events of that story. We even get to play an adaptation of it through flashbacks

I dunno, it makes sense to me that characters featured in that story would return for the conclusion

 

[bcraig6010]

I understand this isn't the gist of your point. Your argument is just extremely subjective though.

This is Night City. A city full of legends. In a world where god(s) and religion have been mostly discarded, those individuals have become the thing of legends and Night City mythos.

You may dislike it but I personally find it very interesting. These people are Night City and the world of Cyberpunk 2077. It lends a sense of importance to the story to have these legendary figures be included. The chip wouldn't feel half as important if Saburo didn't even care enough to pursue it himself. The fact he's willing to go to the extents he does to get it back speaks to how important this chip is.

Likewise, the fact you end up working with Rogue, another legendary figure of NC, lends credence to the fact V isn't just some average merc anymore. V went from being a nobody to working with the fixer.

Just like beating Adam Smasher gives a sense of how powerful V has become to defeat such a powerful enemy. Lore-wise anyway since gameplay wise Smasher is quite disappointing but that's another discussion.

In a world like Cyberpunk 2077, these legendary figures are simply incredibly rich (or associated with extremely wealthy individual in the case of Smasher) and wealth can buy you an extended lifetime. I also don't see how that's so immersion breaking. It's how even our own world works. Life expectancy has doubled in most of the world in the last 100 years and to this day, the richer you are, the better treatment you have access to. 50 years old today can be in much better shape they could ever hope to be back in 1905. I don't see how hard it is to believe that so many of the incredibly wealthy are prancing around like 30 years old when things like literal cybernetic improvement/replacement are a common thing.

But, again, this is all extremely subjective. You are, of course, free to think it's immersion breaking but I personally welcome it and can get immersed just fine.

There is a VAST VAST difference between the living legends still being around and seeing them on TV or spotting them and their security details entering a hovercraft.. but MEETING every last one of them reaches the point of ridiculousness.

 

[LeKill3rFou]

but MEETING every last one of them reaches the point of ridiculousness.

What do you mean by "every last one of them" ? And which ones ?

 

[Gothic_Wizard]

What do you mean by "every last one of them" ? And which ones ?

This was a disingenuous question so please.

 

[LeKill3rFou]

This was a disingenuous question so please.

Just interested to know what "every last one of them" means... And which characters are included
From what I know, I quote myself, there are only few (very far from "all" characters present in Cyberpunk since the first edition) and V really meet few of them (in green in my quote).

Let's list the characters imported from the lore... (I could miss somes, but I don't think to be far from list them all...)

• Saburo Arasaka
• Hanako Arasaka
• Yorinobu Arasaka
• Michiko Arasaka (you can meet her once during one ending)
• Adam Smasher
• Rogue
• Alt (obvious it's an AI)
• Johnny (doesn't really count, he's already dead...)
• Not sure that Samurai band (Kerry, Nancy,...) appear in the Cyberpunk TTRPG

 

[pliskards]

Story beat to focus on in Cyberpunk 2 - Corporate War
Story beat to avoid in Cyberpunk 2 - Anything about engrams in your head of anybody

That is my only take.

 

[GrimReaper801]

There is a VAST VAST difference between the living legends still being around and seeing them on TV or spotting them and their security details entering a hovercraft.. but MEETING every last one of them reaches the point of ridiculousness.

Apparently I missed the notification that you had quoted me. @LeKill3rFou asked the question I would've asked really.

Every last one of them is beyond of a stretch. Here is a list of notable 2020 characters. We're not even meeting a quarter or them. Yes, we meet some very important and big names but I've already said what I thought of that. Hasn't changed and I stand by it.

Hell, I still don't understand how it's so hard to believe someone like Saburo Arasaka is still around and kicking and wasn't assassinated. If some small time dictator like Fidel Castro managed to survive upwards of 600 assassination schemes and/or actual assassinations, how hard is it to believe someone as powerful (and revered) as Saburo would?

To each his own obviously but ....

Story beat to avoid in Cyberpunk 2 - Anything about engrams in your head of anybody

This I strongly agree with. I don't want to see more of that. We've had enough of that. Although I'd be ok if there are some engrams you can stick in your head for added flavor/text/quests/whatever. I just don't want another story centered around that.

 

[pliskards]

This I strongly agree with. I don't want to see more of that. We've had enough of that. Although I'd be ok if there are some engrams you can stick in your head for added flavor/text/quests/whatever. I just don't want another story centered around that.

Yeah. The engram thing was neat, I just don't want to see it become "a thing" in Cyberpunk games. It was cool for one, but we don't need it every time.

I think a good comparison would be synths in Fallout 4. Not that I really enjoyed that storyline. But I hope that was just a thing in Fallout 4 and in the next entry it is left alone or maybe briefly referenced in some Easter eggs.

One thing I think Cyberpunk 2077 missed out on was brain dances. Not just to investigate stuff. They seem like a big part of the world and we can barely interact with them at all. They could have crazy dark ones, sexual ones, violent ones, happy ones, etc. They could even possibly tie mini-games and stuff into them. I'd rather explore those more than deal with engrams ever again in the game - other than maybe minor shoutouts to the original.

 

[GrimReaper801]

I think a good comparison would be synths in Fallout 4. Not that I really enjoyed that storyline. But I hope that was just a thing in Fallout 4 and in the next entry it is left alone or maybe briefly referenced in some Easter eggs.

Agreed, I'd rather avoid more synth centered storylines in future FO titles but that is mostly because it just wasn't such a good story. Although Far Harbor's redeemed that in my opinion. So I guess I don't want a main quest centered on them.

Luckily it's easy to move on to something else in FO's world since it's largely self constrained stories. They could move the next game to a different locale in the world and act as if Synths were never a thing. Or I guess they could make the institute something akin to the BoS and have them show up through various explanations. We'll see I guess.

One thing I think Cyberpunk 2077 missed out on was brain dances. Not just to investigate stuff. They seem like a big part of the world and we can barely interact with them at all. They could have crazy dark ones, sexual ones, violent ones, happy ones, etc. They could even possibly tie mini-games and stuff into them. I'd rather explore those more than deal with engrams ever again in the game - other than maybe minor shoutouts to the original.

I can't say I have much interest in BDs myself. I think they were fairly well done the first time I played but in subsequent playthroughs they felt more tedious. I don't see them being more prevalent in future games though. Especially not sexual or particularly dark ones. Largely because they don't want an AO rating on their games. I believe people will have to look towards modders to get that if they are so inclined.

 

[pliskards]

I can't say I have much interest in BDs myself. I think they were fairly well done the first time I played but in subsequent playthroughs they felt more tedious. I don't see them being more prevalent in future games though. Especially not sexual or particularly dark ones. Largely because they don't want an AO rating on their games. I believe people will have to look towards modders to get that if they are so inclined.

Yeah - I don't think they need to have them be as interactive as they were in Cyberpunk 2077. Just literally a reel that rolls inside of your head that you can pause, rewind, fast forward, zoom in and out or whatever. Little videos that play on the screen. But I guess this is also because I didn't find the brain dance investigation stuff super fun or interesting.

I'm not into the particularly sexual or violent part of games, it just seems to fit into the universe. Also, I am not sure this would be a particularly huge problem rating wise so long as they don't go way overboard (which I don't think they should). I don't see a BD playing in someone's head of something sexual being any different than the sex scenes/prostitutes in Witcher 3 or Cyberpunk 2077. I think they could touch on violence and stuff like that without taking it too far. Same thing with happier moments and stuff like that.

But BDs seem to be pretty big in the Cyberpunk world. That's the main reason I think they should focus on it if they are going to do anything... uhhh... "brain chip" wise? For the lack of a better term.

Like I said - I also think they could potentially link in some mini-games to some of that stuff as well. Where you plug in and play casino game type stuff, Gwent'ish things, etc.

 

[GrimReaper801]

Yeah - I don't think they need to have them be as interactive as they were in Cyberpunk 2077. Just literally a reel that rolls inside of your head that you can pause, rewind, fast forward, zoom in and out or whatever. Little videos that play on the screen. But I guess this is also because I didn't find the brain dance investigation stuff super fun or interesting.

I'm not into the particularly sexual or violent part of games, it just seems to fit into the universe. Also, I am not sure this would be a particularly huge problem rating wise so long as they don't go way overboard (which I don't think they should). I don't see a BD playing in someone's head of something sexual being any different than the sex scenes/prostitutes in Witcher 3 or Cyberpunk 2077. I think they could touch on violence and stuff like that without taking it too far. Same thing with happier moments and stuff like that.

But BDs seem to be pretty big in the Cyberpunk world. That's the main reason I think they should focus on it if they are going to do anything... uhhh... "brain chip" wise? For the lack of a better term.

Like I said - I also think they could potentially link in some mini-games to some of that stuff as well. Where you plug in and play casino game type stuff, Gwent'ish things, etc.

But then it becomes an exercise in risk vs. value.

They would have to produce a lot of them, or make them very long and of high quality, to make it interesting at all. Otherwise, you'd blast through what's available and then it would just be forgotten about.

I don't think it's worth investing into personally. It would be a nice feature for those interested in it but I, from what I've seen, which is anecdotal at best, it's a very small minority that would be very interested in watching a lot of BDs.

A mini-game similar to Gwent certainly would be interesting but they can't exactly create a lot of them and make them all as high quality as Gwent was. It's, again, an exercise in risk vs. reward. Make a very interesting one and interweave it into the game like Gwent of make multiple shoddy ones to satisfy a minority of people clamoring for lots of BDs.

I really can't imagine BDs ever becoming a big part of the games.

 

[Mordai65]

Your opinion is valid... for you. No one can tell you that shouldn't feel the way you do about so much of the source material being included.

My opinion is also valid and I disagree with you 100%. I almost danced with joy the first time I saw Johnny Fucking Silverhand on my screen. Every mention of Morgan Blackhand is a nerdgasm for me.

To each their own