This is why I wish they did more with the Badlands, there's so much potential out there its crazy.
You just want everyone to be naked and having wild orgies all over the city. I've agreed with most of your posts on these topics lol..
Something I think is essential, reaffirming that the game has huge potential. He has. No other company has gone so far in terms of futuristic design, as it is an open, large, urban map with a focus on the Sci Fi theme. GTA, yes, but science fiction is not the focus. WD, Ubi, too, but with its limits.
I don't know if the technology today will be able to promote greater interaction, at the level of NPCs, in a more intense way. I think it's possible, in the same idea as 'LOD', there is, by far, just a polygonal sketch. CP has this at a certain level - and very well done. But I think CP can and should go further. We may have to mix two things, systems with patches + LOD (Load Over Distance) with a relatively accurate AI, dialogues, consequences. I don't know, but I think that art design can - artificially - create ways to avoid possible problems or mitigate technical problems.
Crowds are shapes, they will always be seen like that ... a cluster of buildings, they will always be inaccurate shapes - no matter the context here, but even these can have content. This I learned from Studios Ghibli where the simplicity of the line created the illusion, the content, the narrative, filled that line (lines, plural). Princess Kaguya was a great example of mastery in the design arts.
CP can follow this path and open another era in the game industry, revolutionize.
I will give an example that despises useless technologies like HDR, Ray Trace, HLSS and other crap that only exist to ruin possibilities and the popular character of a game, as well as restrict interactions.
Below, some images, in the link, here everything is treated by the lack of accuracy, but giving the illusion of the real. Eve Online, in 2003, used 512x512 textures on many of her models and relatively coarse models (low poly). But because EVE's design influenced so many future games: because it was inaccurate. The environment created sensations and perceptions of the illusion. A window, in a spaceship, had no light, but it created the illusion of lux (texture / glow in rendering - something that CP abuses, even and in a good way). The game was designed for many computers, to have communication with side servers, etc. Everything had to be minimal and, by design, they mitigated the technology of the time and its limits. The image below is of David Paget and the second by Michal Kus - artists (art Concept). And a coment more: [The years passed, texture sizes increased by 1,024 (underestimated today) 2,048 (still used today), 4k (useless), 8k (completely, absolutely useless from the design point of view, something that can be easily mitigated - only for advertising), etc.]
What am I proposing? CP, nothing. CP Online, everything. I think I know how to mitigate problems and make a game that would surprise everyone. The essence of the idea is to invert logic, from polygonal accuracy, to the inaccuracy of the interactive, moving art concept.
I don't know if the technology today will be able to promote greater interaction, at the level of NPCs, in a more intense way. I think it's possible, in the same idea as 'LOD', there is, by far, just a polygonal sketch. CP has this at a certain level - and very well done. But I think CP can and should go further. We may have to mix two things, systems with patches + LOD (Load Over Distance) with a relatively accurate AI, dialogues, consequences. I don't know, but I think that art design can - artificially - create ways to avoid possible problems or mitigate technical problems.
Crowds are shapes, they will always be seen like that ... a cluster of buildings, they will always be inaccurate shapes - no matter the context here, but even these can have content. This I learned from Studios Ghibli where the simplicity of the line created the illusion, the content, the narrative, filled that line (lines, plural). Princess Kaguya was a great example of mastery in the design arts.
CP can follow this path and open another era in the game industry, revolutionize.
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I will give an example that despises useless technologies like HDR, Ray Trace, HLSS and other crap that only exist to ruin possibilities and the popular character of a game, as well as restrict interactions.
Below, some images, in the link, here everything is treated by the lack of accuracy, but giving the illusion of the real. Eve Online, in 2003, used 512x512 textures on many of her models and relatively coarse models (low poly). But because EVE's design influenced so many future games: because it was inaccurate. The environment created sensations and perceptions of the illusion. A window, in a spaceship, had no light, but it created the illusion of lux (texture / glow in rendering - something that CP abuses, even and in a good way). The game was designed for many computers, to have communication with side servers, etc. Everything had to be minimal and, by design, they mitigated the technology of the time and its limits. The image below is of David Paget and the second by Michal Kus - artists (art Concept). And a coment more: [The years passed, texture sizes increased by 1,024 (underestimated today) 2,048 (still used today), 4k (useless), 8k (completely, absolutely useless from the design point of view, something that can be easily mitigated - only for advertising), etc.]
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What am I proposing? CP, nothing. CP Online, everything. I think I know how to mitigate problems and make a game that would surprise everyone. The essence of the idea is to invert logic, from polygonal accuracy, to the inaccuracy of the interactive, moving art concept.
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This is CP problem as I see it.
That its open world is one of the best things about it, its just too rushed as it is now. If they fill it with more things to do and integrate it into the game then its prefect.
But everything in CP is, except Night city, some of the missions and the audio. Rest of it is rushed, which clearly weren't the intentions as you will get hints about it, as you go around and looking at the videos they released. Hopefully they will get all these things added.
In my view, 98% of people complain, with reasons, around issues that involve immersion: interactivity, more romance, missions, more this, more that ... Night City calls this by itself. There are sections in the game, visibly closed due to the lack of time to finish it or something. Two percent, on performance and any bugs. This does not mean that one number or percentage excludes the other, if they complement each other, in fact. But I am almost absolutely sure that CDPR will not listen to its community, again and as it has been its habit and will only fix an idea that was born settled by itself, independent of bugs. I am pessimistic about one reason: they do not speak to the community and that is the biggest disrespect and display of contempt that I, Iskras - I think a company can offer its audience. Communication should be the basis of everything.
Yes, open world is not good idea
big maps, like sandbox with linear levels are the best
more interesting/fun content in them and more replayability
open worlds tend to feel emtpy in some areas and drive for several minutes from A to B to C to do missons that can be done in the same big map gets repetitive,
big maps, like sandbox with linear levels are the best
more interesting/fun content in them and more replayability
open worlds tend to feel emtpy in some areas and drive for several minutes from A to B to C to do missons that can be done in the same big map gets repetitive,
"big maps, like sandbox with linear levels are the best" - dont understand, what u mean or can gime a good exemple? (open world is perfect, but depend, of design).
The game would work so much better as a closed off hub world, like Mass Effect and Deus Ex.
There are those who like Deux EX, I don't like closed maps, limits and the absolute lack of interactivity, in addition to the fact that a game is literally sentenced to death after its completion. Good for the market that wants to sell crap (I don't mean Deux EX in particular) every hour or minute, for me, it doesn't fit. I prefer the term long, games long thought.
I insist, the problem is not 'open or not', dispensing with predilections. The future of games is this, open world - at least, those that will have more popular appeal (if they maintain a medium technological level).
In my view the problem is design, design conception. CP has good foundations, it can go a long way, but don't keep your head on 'things' like GTA or any mediocre (all are) shooting games ... (sorry, my opinion). This is the difference between a game expected as 'game of the decade' and common things like Deux EX (copy / paste of old versions with perfumery). CP disappointed because it was just like Deux X, GTA ... etc ... that's why he disappointed ... and who disappointed, what does he disappoint? #follow the tip
I ll try something next year, im working in some tools now ... small, but ... bold.
I agree with the whole idea.
Open world can be a good idea if you design your game around that whole concept and it actually benefits from it, which isn't the case with CP.
And to be fair, the game shares the same downside as Ghost of Tsushima (at least imo), which is another great game with an awful open world aspect (I mean, GOT has the advantage of having a tremendously beautiful world...Probably the most beautiful I've seen in a video game but the open world aspect is extremely basic and redundant).
CP is of the same caliber. The game has a great story and side quests, the gameplay is fun but the open world is just not existing. I think it's mostly because CDPR simply didn't have time to flesh it out but it doesn't change the result: This game isn't really an open world (it's kind of a corridor type of game disguised as an open world, if you will).
An exemple of a great game for its open world aspect is RDR2...In fact, this game is probably my all time favorite in term of how the open world is taken advantage of. Even random encounters are incredible. There's so many of them, they change as you progress into the game, make you do various things and some even lead to entire side quests. There's mini game, secrets...10/10.
Breath of the wild is a great exemple too. Not only because this game handles its open world aspect to perfection but also because it represents the exemple CDPR should have followed with CP...which is, when the fans pushed the devs to release it (because BoTW took forever to develop too) they didn't crack and answered that the game will be ready when it will be ready, period.
Open world can be a good idea if you design your game around that whole concept and it actually benefits from it, which isn't the case with CP.
And to be fair, the game shares the same downside as Ghost of Tsushima (at least imo), which is another great game with an awful open world aspect (I mean, GOT has the advantage of having a tremendously beautiful world...Probably the most beautiful I've seen in a video game but the open world aspect is extremely basic and redundant).
CP is of the same caliber. The game has a great story and side quests, the gameplay is fun but the open world is just not existing. I think it's mostly because CDPR simply didn't have time to flesh it out but it doesn't change the result: This game isn't really an open world (it's kind of a corridor type of game disguised as an open world, if you will).
An exemple of a great game for its open world aspect is RDR2...In fact, this game is probably my all time favorite in term of how the open world is taken advantage of. Even random encounters are incredible. There's so many of them, they change as you progress into the game, make you do various things and some even lead to entire side quests. There's mini game, secrets...10/10.
Breath of the wild is a great exemple too. Not only because this game handles its open world aspect to perfection but also because it represents the exemple CDPR should have followed with CP...which is, when the fans pushed the devs to release it (because BoTW took forever to develop too) they didn't crack and answered that the game will be ready when it will be ready, period.
If anything, any game that goes against any open world idea is called Cyberpunk 2077, a game designed to liquidate your desire to play Cyberpunk 2077. It just follows a poor, straight-forward narrative ... decisions, it doesn't matter, they don't the smallest difference between endings where, what changes, is the scenario and only.
CP would need a couple more years to be something 'differentiated'. It has good foundations, but I do not believe that CDPR will change that, this fact and for purely financial reasons.
Regarding the decisions of game directors, design, etc ... I will be as tough as necessary. They had everything in their hands and threw it all out of greed!
CP would need a couple more years to be something 'differentiated'. It has good foundations, but I do not believe that CDPR will change that, this fact and for purely financial reasons.
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Regarding the decisions of game directors, design, etc ... I will be as tough as necessary. They had everything in their hands and threw it all out of greed!
while I do agree on some of your points regarding Cyberpunk 2077 problems, I still thing that they need to keep making open world games so they get it right at some points.
Yes sure you can't do nothing with cars beside going from point a to point b but to get there we traverse the city and that was quite fun for me since in 150 hours I have only used quicktravel an handful of times.
It's a shame we can't do races and other activities with cars but why should we in this game I don't get it. Just because the game gives you a car to go around the city doesn't necessarily means that the game has to tun into a forza horizon or granturismo. Granted their implementation is still half-assed and based on smoke and mirrors, like in the silly race quest that you mentioned
Let's just accept what little has been done which is pretty good in my opinion, it's clear they had other priorities.
Hopefully there is still a chance to iterate on the concept of the cars, whether in dlc, updates, multiplayer or sequel.
Yes sure you can't do nothing with cars beside going from point a to point b but to get there we traverse the city and that was quite fun for me since in 150 hours I have only used quicktravel an handful of times.
It's a shame we can't do races and other activities with cars but why should we in this game I don't get it. Just because the game gives you a car to go around the city doesn't necessarily means that the game has to tun into a forza horizon or granturismo. Granted their implementation is still half-assed and based on smoke and mirrors, like in the silly race quest that you mentioned
Let's just accept what little has been done which is pretty good in my opinion, it's clear they had other priorities.
Hopefully there is still a chance to iterate on the concept of the cars, whether in dlc, updates, multiplayer or sequel.
I simply refuse to accept 'fast travel'. Such a beautiful city does not deserve this.
It would have been also nice if you could travel on those sky trains and see the city from above. It clearly comes of as an half made game, if we look at the full potential of the CP lore and the technology they built already.
They did it for pleasure, in my opinion and to sell DLCs later. Unfortunately, for me, the logic of money prevails on the CD and no longer 'make games because I like making games'.
I don't think CDPR has lots their touch and love for making games. Just look at the city, its design and architecture, the art, the sound it's all beautiful. To make beauty you need to love what you are making. but that's just my thinking
Can't say I agree.
The lore surrounding CP2077 has everything to create a beautiful, engaging and immersive open world. Unfortunately, CDPR didn't use all of that lore to create the rich immersive world it could've been.
It's a bit surprising to be honest. I mean, if you look at the TW3 and Gwent, such a simple little mini-game spawned an entire new game. It was beautifully thought out and passionately created, that much is obvious.
So why wouldn't CDPR have something to it's effect in CP2077? It makes no sense. It simply reeks of lacking time to finish and, most importantly, polish things.
You have this gorgeously crafted city with so much potential. There is an obvious lack of things to do that have become staples of open worlds set in modern times. Such as go to a garage for car modifications, go to a gun shop for gun mods, a bar to grab a drink, barber for your appearance, etc. These have all become standard in open world game and I think it's not farfetched to expect a basic form of them at this point. CDPR should've went a bit further though and done something that's CP2077 exclusive.
Call it an identity if you will, that's what CP's world is missing. It's a decent world, some parts of it are arguably great, but it has no identity of it's own. Nothing to really set it apart from other games. It's your standard run of the mill open world with a sci-fi paint on it. What makes it different from other games out there?
If you look at Assassin's Creed: Valhalla, it's just another AC game. There isn't anything incredible about it but it has it's own identity. Most of it is your standard AC open stuff but unlike previous iterations, you're a Viking living the Viking life. Pillaging, raiding and discovering medieval England. Albeit in a very PG-13 way. It has an identity nonetheless. Something that makes it different from most games out there. A simple mechanic that, while taken on it's own isn't much to write home about, but taken in the grander scheme of things make you go "Awwww yeah, I'm a Viking and I'm here to plunder" for a while.
CP2077 doesn't have this going for it. It has no identity. It's just a gorgeously designed city with a sci-fi theme. Most quests are beautifully written but they mostly all boil down to go there, shoot X/grab Y and get out. That's highly disappointing because there is just so much potential here for one of the greatest open worlds out there.
The game lacks variety. You got a few races out there but there should be more (preferably procedurally created). You have entire nomad clans in the badlands but no real way to interact and affect them even as a nomad yourself, have jobs that show what it is to be a nomad living the nomad life.
There are obviously other things that can be done to give CP2077 an identity, something that makes it unique in it's own right. This open world isn't a bad thing, not by a long shot, but it is begging for something more. Something that differentiates it from other games.
The lore surrounding CP2077 has everything to create a beautiful, engaging and immersive open world. Unfortunately, CDPR didn't use all of that lore to create the rich immersive world it could've been.
It's a bit surprising to be honest. I mean, if you look at the TW3 and Gwent, such a simple little mini-game spawned an entire new game. It was beautifully thought out and passionately created, that much is obvious.
So why wouldn't CDPR have something to it's effect in CP2077? It makes no sense. It simply reeks of lacking time to finish and, most importantly, polish things.
You have this gorgeously crafted city with so much potential. There is an obvious lack of things to do that have become staples of open worlds set in modern times. Such as go to a garage for car modifications, go to a gun shop for gun mods, a bar to grab a drink, barber for your appearance, etc. These have all become standard in open world game and I think it's not farfetched to expect a basic form of them at this point. CDPR should've went a bit further though and done something that's CP2077 exclusive.
Call it an identity if you will, that's what CP's world is missing. It's a decent world, some parts of it are arguably great, but it has no identity of it's own. Nothing to really set it apart from other games. It's your standard run of the mill open world with a sci-fi paint on it. What makes it different from other games out there?
If you look at Assassin's Creed: Valhalla, it's just another AC game. There isn't anything incredible about it but it has it's own identity. Most of it is your standard AC open stuff but unlike previous iterations, you're a Viking living the Viking life. Pillaging, raiding and discovering medieval England. Albeit in a very PG-13 way. It has an identity nonetheless. Something that makes it different from most games out there. A simple mechanic that, while taken on it's own isn't much to write home about, but taken in the grander scheme of things make you go "Awwww yeah, I'm a Viking and I'm here to plunder" for a while.
CP2077 doesn't have this going for it. It has no identity. It's just a gorgeously designed city with a sci-fi theme. Most quests are beautifully written but they mostly all boil down to go there, shoot X/grab Y and get out. That's highly disappointing because there is just so much potential here for one of the greatest open worlds out there.
The game lacks variety. You got a few races out there but there should be more (preferably procedurally created). You have entire nomad clans in the badlands but no real way to interact and affect them even as a nomad yourself, have jobs that show what it is to be a nomad living the nomad life.
There are obviously other things that can be done to give CP2077 an identity, something that makes it unique in it's own right. This open world isn't a bad thing, not by a long shot, but it is begging for something more. Something that differentiates it from other games.
I registered in that same topic: Illustrators, modelers, animators, engineers, sound, light, code, made a miracle ABOUT bad directors' decisions.
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Assassin Creed Valhalla is born before, in Egypt, then goes to Greece (all new mechanics). He dared to leave that kind of 'closed' game, limited from the closed world. I consider AC Valhalla as the new within a logic of new strings.
CP presented nothing new. Just an absurdly linear story. Maybe good, I haven't completed it yet. But under the general context of CP, everything ends up dying.
I think this is bad, CDPR had everything in hand, good professionals, but a bad direction.
I will be repetitive, I would not like. I still hope that they will read us here.
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