Yeah, i use a translator. In a general or so to speak: Immersion in Cyberpunk it is constantly cut, castrated, due to the imposition of a bad game design (mechanic).
In very simple terms (because I don’t want to write a full wall):
Open world storyline is one that takes advantage of the open world it is set in and of the players relatively unrestricted movement activities in it; and optimally lets those latter aspects count in the storyline in some manner.
Open world gameplay is one that offers the player the opportunities and activities for meaningful gameplay as per the nature of the open world; and allows those activities to count in with the storyline in some manner.
What Cyberpunk has, is a very strict main narrative that does not concern but small parts of the city and makes thematically no sense to do that either. It also has a big open world that takes no concern over the players doings and merely offers boatloads of busywork that isn’t really tied to anything.
In a way you could say, the story is wrong for the world around it, and the world is wrong for the story within it. Almost as if the narrative designers didn’t mind the world that was being put in place, and the world designers weren’t completely on the map (pun intended) on what kind of story is being told there (so they just threw something in it).
Ok, so you have an "opinion" on what you "think" and open world is. Ok. You should go read up on the lore of Night City and get an understanding of it. You don't leave Night City, except in a body bag.
Ok so you assume this is how it's always going to be and CDPR is not going to fix the game? I'm trying to understand what you're trying to say
Ok, so you have an "opinion" on what you "think" and open world is. Ok. You should go read up on the lore of Night City and get an understanding of it. You don't leave Night City, except in a body bag.
Who likes the game, as I like it, I have more than 200 hours in the game and I will have two hundred more, obviously wants the game to be fixed.
Understand the community as a place where people also deposit their frustrations or expectations with something. Don't wash everything too heavily. What I most want is a Cyberpunk Online, I was extremely sad when they talked about supposed postponement. I like the game, but it has many problems. Simple. Will I stop liking the game if it is not what I think of the world?
Obviously not. I may be frustrated, but I will continue to enjoy the game.
Ok, so you have an "opinion" on what you "think" and open world is. Ok. You should go read up on the lore of Night City and get an understanding of it. You don't leave Night City, except in a body bag.
The more this conversation goes on and the more opinions I read it seems to me that a lot of people are genuinely confusing Open World with Sandbox. Almost every reason/complaint/opinion leveled as to why CP is not a Open World is something that makes a game a Sandbox game. CP is not a sandbox game and to the best of my knowledge it was never claimed it would be one.
In game design game mechanics are not subjective, they are clearly defined concepts and people's opinions of what they think they are or are not are ultimately meaningless and only further confuses people and creates even more discord amongst the gaming community at large.
You are of course free to disagree to your hearts content, but no matter how much someone insists the color of the Sun is purple it is not. Not everything is subject to the whims of someone's opinion, thankfully.
The more this conversation goes on and the more opinions I read it seems to me that a lot of people are genuinely confusing Open World with Sandbox. Almost every reason/complaint/opinion leveled as to why CP is not a Open World is something that makes a game a Sandbox game. CP is not a sandbox game and to the best of my knowledge it was never claimed it would be one.
In game design game mechanics are not subjective, they are clearly defined concepts and people opinions of what they think they are or are not are ultimately meaningless and only further confuses people and create even more discord amongst the community.
You are of course free to disagree to your hearts content, and people offering up there but no matter how much someone insists the color of the Sun is purple it is not. Not everything is subject to the whims of someone's opinion, thankfully.
'In game design game mechanics are not subjective' - Kojima proff another thing...
Mechanics submit to an idea that, astonishment, is subjective or a point of view. A 'how am I going to show this'?
Of course, I am addressing or arguing that the technique or any problems, can be easily mitigated by the subjective. Plus, that's what I do in game, to have my 200 hours and hope to have two hundred more - I build my immersion, my routine in a game stuck, tied, with chains, to a plot that I don't like in general lines because it tries to force me to follow something 'straight'.
However, there is a responsibility on the developers side too to create the sort of world that reflects their intentions for the experience and doesn’t confuse the player to thinking otherwise.
However, there is a responsibility on the developers side too to create the sort of world that reflects their intentions for the experience and doesn’t confuse the player to thinking otherwise.
It is difficult to measure all this because everything is leading us to the idea of 'rush'. Let's see, what I would like is for CDPR to come and talk to us, sincerely.
Night City and it's surrounding area is the open world that the game is designed in. You're making it out that there needs to be many cities and possibly continents to make it an open world which is not the case. I'm pretty sure there will be more area and maps added with dlc's and expansions. We also don't know what the have planned for the multiplayer end of it. Let the game settle and flesh itself out.
It is clear, indeed, according to what we can see in the game.
There is still that weird feeling of incompleteness and of being sawn together like a patchwork quilt to all of it, so it might have been different at some point in time.
Night City and it's surrounding area is the open world that the game is designed in. You're making it out that there needs to be many cities and possibly continents to make it an open world which is not the case. I'm pretty sure there will be more area and maps added with dlc's and expansions. We also don't know what the have planned for the multiplayer end of it. Let the game settle and flesh itself out.
Im working in a 'prototype'. A 'level design'. The game will be located in a small piece or pieces, installation, few rooms or, just one room (I haven't decided yet and this will be related to my limitations). But there will be diverse interactions. I call this 'open world' (within a universe called 'world' strict to what actually exists in game). What is the 'open' (figurative sense) multiple decisions about what is placed in game and that, the result or result of a narrative. The narrative even relates to the physics used in game, with the weather, with the climate, with the colors, the light, the animations, etc. In a broader sense, for me, this is 'open world'. I can sum it up in the following sentence: a feeling, although limited to the virtual world that exists, of freedom amid decisions that change the environment or surroundings.
It is difficult to measure all this because everything is leading us to the idea of 'rush'. Let's see, what I would like is for CDPR to come and talk to us, sincerely.
I personally think it was impatient investors tired of CP being delayed and the CDPR corpos gave in and rushed the Devs to get something, anything, out. This is my opinion and should be taken as such.
Also, I don't think CDPR will say much until all the legal stuff is settled. Though I do love the Dev who told that Magazine that compared CP to Hitler to "Fuck off" on twitter.
I personally think it was impatient investors tired of CP being delayed and the CDPR corpos gave in and rushed the Devs to get something, anything, out. This is my opinion and should be taken as such.
Also, I don't think CDPR will say much until all the legal stuff is settled. Though I do love the Dev who told that Magazine that compared CP to Hitler to "Fuck off" on twitter.
"Though I do love the Dev who told that Magazine that compared CP to Hitler to "Fuck off" on twitter" HUUUU? What happens? This is real? Someone made this dumb comparison on Twitter, a game with a ... afff ... (no words) ...
"Though I do love the Dev who told that Magazine that compared CP to Hitler to "Fuck off" on twitter" HUUUU? What happens? This is real? Someone made this dumb comparison on Twitter, a game with a ... afff ... (no words) ...
The city looks awesome but lacks of life basically. So if i just make a render in unity with some buildings, and put a camera, and with your controls you move that camera, and i put some objects on it, that when you interacts plays a sounds, will you call that open world game?
You can if you want, but the concept is beyond that. The city design is great, they still need to work some aspects, like others says here, buildings are fake, you cant go inside of them, you should be able to buy houses/apartments (and i know what you will say, that some quests gives you "extra" apartments, but everything is based on the story, and if is story line, then is not open world).
Open World, is not only an empty place where you put some random bots that throws random lines in certain situations. The art in the game is excelent, but it needs more complex algoritms when you interact with it, movement algoritms also, you cant inmerse if everything is fake.
Like others, i still enjoy the game, but is not even close to other titles, older titles with lower resources.
Simulate something is not just put the image and move it randomly with basic algoritms.
For example, If you see from a distance a road, you will see cars moving to you, and then they dissapear.
NPCs the same, sometimes they just dissapear. Its an open world that doesnt have any sense or reality touch, is more like a draw, an excelent picture, that you can see, but you cant touch it because is not real.
Check it out, cyberpunk open world vs GTA 5 open world NPCs behavior:
Check it out, compared with watch dogs:
Look collisions, and behavior of NPC compared to old GTA 4, physics & mechanic:
Welcome to next generation of open world adventure. immerse yourself in Cyberpunk 2077
Excelent story, but is not a next generation of open world at all. Tell me one "next generation" thing, that makes the difference in CP in comparsion of other Open World games. Actually is the opposit, I mean almost any actual Open World game is better overall in all the mechanics & algoritms that CP actually has, as open world experience.
In CP, Open World is not real, the "outside world" (more than) "open world" is excelent, only if you play the game as single player adventure game. As someone said here, if you look outside of the window while you are doing some questing.
If you want to explore "this" open world, then all this issues, basic issues, basic behaviors that should be there, are not there, is just a beautiful image, but nothing more.
And if you start looking at the details, physics, shadows, mechanics, you find out how shallow the open world experience is in CP.
Now, if "open world experience" is not the main objective of the game, but it is the story, then they did a great job. The issue with this is, that once you finish the game, all you can do is play the same story from another perspective, yes with some different approuches, maybe some extra lines, maybe a walkaround in some questing, but is the same story.
Like waching a movie, like late shift game, a movie where you choose what parts you want to see they are different parts.
The city looks awesome but lacks of life basically. So if i just make a render in unity with some buildings, and put a camera, and with your controls you move that camera, and i put some objects on it, that when you interacts plays a sounds, will you call that open world game?
You can if you want, but the concept is beyond that. The city design is great, they still need to work some aspects, like others says here, buildings are fake, you cant go inside of them, you should be able to buy houses/apartments (and i know what you will say, that some quests gives you "extra" apartments, but everything is based on the story, and if is story line, then is not open world).
Open World, is not only an empty place where you put some random bots that throws random lines in certain situations. The art in the game is excelent, but it needs more complex algoritms when you interact with it, movement algoritms also, you cant inmerse if everything is fake.
Like others, i still enjoy the game, but is not even close to other titles, older titles with lower resources.
Simulate something is not just put the image and move it randomly with basic algoritms.
For example, If you see from a distance a road, you will see cars moving to you, and then they dissapear.
NPCs the same, sometimes they just dissapear. Its an open world that doesnt have any sense or reality touch, is more like a draw, an excelent picture, that you can see, but you cant touch it because is not real.
Check it out, cyberpunk open world vs GTA 5 open world NPCs behavior:
Check it out, compared with watch dogs:
Look collisions, and behavior of NPC compared to old GTA 4, physics & mechanic:
Welcome to next generation of open world adventure. immerse yourself in Cyberpunk 2077
Excelent story, but is not a next generation of open world at all. Tell me one "next generation" thing, that makes the difference in CP in comparsion of other Open World games. Actually is the opposit, I mean almost any actual Open World game is better overall in all the mechanics & algoritms that CP actually has, as open world experience.
In CP, Open World is not real, the "outside world" (more than) "open world" is excelent, only if you play the game as single player adventure game. As someone said here, if you look outside of the window while you are doing some questing.
If you want to explore "this" open world, then all this issues, basic issues, basic behaviors that should be there, are not there, is just a beautiful image, but nothing more.
And if you start looking at the details, physics, shadows, mechanics, you find out how shallow the open world experience is in CP.
Now, if "open world experience" is not the main objective of the game, but it is the story, then they did a great job. The issue with this is, that once you finish the game, all you can do is play the same story from another perspective, yes with some different approuches, maybe some extra lines, maybe a walkaround in some questing, but is the same story.
Like waching a movie, like late shift game, a movie where you choose what parts you want to see they are different parts.
Also you keep saying the same stuff over and over. You have your opinions about open world and rpg and you are completely entitled to them but they are based on flawed information and misconceptions. Maybe try correcting the flaws and misconceptions so you then can refine your opinions.
This basically sums up your feelings about CP:
CP is not the RPG you wanted, check.
CP is not the Open World you wanted, check.
CP will never be a sandbox and you want it to be, check.
Anyone who disagrees with you is just a cult fan, check.
While I will admit you do have some valid points they all get lost in the noise of your rants about open world and rpg when you clearly do not understand the terms and refuse any attempt by anyone to remove the misconceptions you have about them. I tried but everyone has there limits. You can lead a horse to water but you can not make it drink.
This is the last thing I got for your choom. The following is a list of 19 popular open world games, none of which meet your misconceived notion of what an open world game is:
Skyrim - Open World RPG Oblivion - Open World RPG Morrowind - Open World RPG Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon Wildlands - Open World FPS Dragon's Dogma - Open World TP RPG Metal Gear Solid V - The Phantom Pain - Open World Stealth Horizon Zero Dawn - Open World ARPG Watch Dogs 1&2 - Open World Action-Adventure Final Fantasy XV - Open World ARPG Ghost of Tsushima - Open World Action-Adventure Assassin's Creed Odyssey - Open World ARPG Kingdom Come: Deliverance - Open World ARPG Just Cause 4 - Open World Action-Adventure
Far Cry 1,2,3,4,5 - Open World FPS
Also you keep saying the same stuff over and over. You have your opinions about open world and rpg and you are completely entitled to them but they are based on flawed information and misconceptions. Maybe try correcting the flaws and misconceptions so you then can refine your opinions.
This basically sums up your feelings about CP:
CP is not the RPG you wanted, check.
CP is not the Open World you wanted, check.
CP will never be a sandbox and you want it to be, check.
Anyone who disagrees with you is just a cult fan, check.
While I will admit you do have some valid points they all get lost in the noise of your rants about open world and rpg when you clearly do not understand the terms and refuse any attempt by anyone to remove the misconceptions you have about them. I tried but everyone has there limits. You can lead a horse to water but you can not make it drink.
This is the last thing I got for your choom. The following is a list of 19 popular open world games, none of which meet your misconceived notion of what an open world game is:
Skyrim - Open World RPG Oblivion - Open World RPG Morrowind - Open World RPG Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon Wildlands - Open World FPS Dragon's Dogma - Open World TP RPG Metal Gear Solid V - The Phantom Pain - Open World Stealth Horizon Zero Dawn - Open World ARPG Watch Dogs 1&2 - Open World Action-Adventure Final Fantasy XV - Open World ARPG Ghost of Tsushima - Open World Action-Adventure Assassin's Creed Odyssey - Open World ARPG Kingdom Come: Deliverance - Open World ARPG Just Cause 4 - Open World Action-Adventure
Far Cry 1,2,3,4,5 - Open World FPS
A sandbox game is a video game with a gameplay element that gives the player a great degree of creativity to complete tasks towards a goal within the game, if such a goal exists. ... The "sandbox" term derives from the nature of a sandbox that lets children create nearly anything they want within it.
Openworld:
In video games, an open world is a game mechanic of using a virtual world that the player can explore and approach objectives freely, as opposed to a world with more linear and structured gameplay.[1][2] While games have used open-world designs since the 1980s, the implementation in Grand Theft Auto III (2001) set a standard that has been used since.
See the official open world definition made reference of GTA as one of the most iconic open world games... You have a serious cognitive dissonance, i have no issue with you, but this is pointless, so... lets finish this.
You are right, cyberpunk is openworld, congrats my friend.
This went from
"Open World is a Mistake"
To
"What Defines an Open World"
to
"Open World? Or Sandbox?"
to Finally
"Does it Exist in my Head or was it all a Lie?" Christ lol
I guess to throw in my non Existent Eddies into the Pile, Cyberpunk 2077 is an Open World RPG. By Definition I guess, but to Standards and My Personal Opinion, it's a Very Shitty One at that. It has Elements to me that don't Mix well At All. A Linear Story Line that gives the Illusion of Choice in an Open World Setting built for a RPG.
Kind of like CDPR gives you the Controller for the Story, only for it to turned out isn't even Connected. For me in my Non Professional Opinion, Cyberpunk 2077 isn't really that Great of an RPG, Least to what they Achieved in Witcher 3. The world in it though is Super Kickass and I Love it, Christ I'm more Pissed off at CDPR for Wasting such a Great World.
Though seriously, if I have to use my Imaginations to Remotely get some Fun out of a Video Game then damn, their doing something wrong here Honestly.
Either way, Cyberpunk 2077 is a pretty Rad Open World Game, just such a shame they Wasted the Open World on a Linear Gameplay imo.
HOPEFULLY, they fix it down the line. How Much of it can they Fix? Fuck if i know. They can sure as hell fix the Overall Mechanical Bugs and so on but Story and Gameplay Wise? Not too sure, what more can you do to a game that's Already Released? How much can you Change?? Least that's Possible in a Game Development Standards.
I think a lot of it is just we want some sort of an Answer from CDPR, Something. That'll tell us What. The. Fuck. Happened. "Why Overly Promise and Under Achieve??" "Can you Fix this??" "Can you Do More With this??" and my Favorite "Can you put back the Features You Cut???" Wrote that one myself.
The longer we wait, the more we start coming up with Conspiracy Theories on CDPR lol but I guess we just have to wait. As much as it Sucks lol
