Open world games are a mistake!

+
At least as far as Cyberpunk 2077 is concerned, sure there are instances where the open world does add quite a bit and is the right approach however it seems that many in the AAA sphere simply go open world because it is the reigning trend at the time and never truly leverage the strength of an open world while inheriting all of it's weaknesses. Woo lets be backseat game designers and tell CDPR how they fucked up! Lets Go!

Now I am not saying open world games are bad but they do come with their own set of strengths and weaknesses and unless you know how to utilize those strengths all you are left with is the weaknesses.

To me Breath of the Wild is a good example of an open world game done right, sure it has it's weaknesses and areas where it could be stronger but as far as open world games go it really is the game that truly gets what makes a great open world. The world is just one big open playground with many meaningful ways to interact with it and hazards to overcome, create a bridge with a fallen log, roll a boulder down the hill to take out enemies, go snowboarding on your shield, lightning storms that get attracted to your metal weapons but you can also use this to your advantage against enemies, there are so many systems at play that make interacting with the world and it's environment a treat, you stand at the top of the world and see objects and places in the distance that you want to explore and if you see something glowing on a mountain then there is probably something cool to find.

Cyberpunk on the other hand there really isn't anything to interact with in the world at large outside of the quests and missions that take place in enclosed spaces, your view is constantly blocked by towering skyscrapers and neon signs and in the end the game just feels like you are following icons on a map ticking off content on your content checklist, there is a reason people dislike Ubisoft sandbox games and to be honest Cyberpunk 2077 falls into many of the same traps, sure the side content is a little more thought out in Cyberpunk 2077 than in your average Ubisoft game but even then they really don't feel all that worthwhile. Sure we get cars to drive but apart from getting from A to B and being somewhat of a vanity item for our character what do they really add to the game? Apart from 1 racing side quest that is honestly pretty rubbish (do yourself a favour and don't look behind in these sections) there are no missions that actually utilize these vehicles, no high speed car chases where you are the driver, piss off the cops and they just instantly spawn at your location but lose aggro as soon as you get one block away, the only high speed car chases this game has are the scripted ones where the AI drives and you hang out the side shooting with a gun and you really don't need an open world for these sections.

In the end it feels like Cyberpunk 2077 tries to stretch itself too thin, too much effort is spent filling the map with side content that the main content does not get enough attention and fails to truly shine, I honestly think an approach somewhat like the Witcher 2 or Deus Ex with smaller hub areas would have been a much better fit for this game rather than one big wide open map, more effort could be spent on making the interactions and content within these areas feel more significant while cutting out a lot of the clutter.

I know people are probably going to tell me that Witcher 3 was open world and while I do think the Witcher 3 was good despite it's open world I still think that the Witcher 2 had a far better story structure and felt a lot more focused in this regard. I don't begrudge CDPR for trying new things but I do think the strength of their games lies more in the writing and story rather than the gameplay and openness of their worlds.
 
Last edited:
Woo lets be backseat game designers and tell CDPR how they fucked up! Lets Go!
to be fair, I can't tell if it's sarcasm or genuine, but If you truely like a game/franchise, you'll be vocal about it, about the state it's in, the direction it's heading, if you're passionate about something then ofc ppl will be just as critical of it, it sounds like you have a tiny bit of buyers remorse.
 
I only looked at this for a split second and my head already hurts.

More paragraphs please.

Better?
Post automatically merged:

to be fair, I can't tell if it's sarcasm or genuine, but If you truely like a game/franchise, you'll be vocal about it, about the state it's in, the direction it's heading, if you're passionate about something then ofc ppl will be just as critical of it, it sounds like you have a tiny bit of buyers remorse.

Little bit of sarcasm, I do feel everyone has the right to speak their mind and offer their critiques and suggestions to what they feel would make the game better, that is part of what forums are for and in fact I am doing that very thing in this thread! However I do have some self awareness and do realize how it must look to those who developed the game and to see randos on a forum telling them how they fucked up and how they should have made their game.

Don't really have buyers remorse, I mean even if all the reviews said "this game is shit do not buy" I would still have purchased the game to see it for myself, I don't think it is a bad game but I don't think it is a great game even factoring out all the bugs, I do see the glimmer of potential here and it could very well have been a great game but I do think the open world design and chasing AAA trends is what held it back.

Of course that is just my opinion, feel free to tell me why I am wrong.
 
Last edited:
I was scared as hell when they announced Witcher 3 would be open world because the failure of Gothic 3 was still in my mind, but now they have clearly shown that they can deal with open worlds.

For me Night City is just so beautiful to walk and drive through, just to admire the landscape. I could not do that if Cyberpunk was not open world.

Regarding interactivity, a lot of people complain that civilian NPC are not interactive enough. For me, this is not the case. I walk the streets and see hundreds of random people, I do not care about them, they do not care about me. True to life indeed.

Having said that, I would still appreciate if they put more side content, such as barbers, tattoo shops, casinos, cyber-gwent tourneys, car races, brain dances etc... I'm expecting CDPR to release an enhanced edition 1 year from now with these features implemented, sort of like they did with Witcher 1 and 2 (for Witcher 3 we skipped the Enhnanced Edition because no one was complain about anything there...)

But the way need to be going forward, not backward.
 
Unless they release update with bunch of new interactions with the open world - it added nothing.
If I'm not doing quest, driving or walking somewhere is a meaningless thing. Buildings, roads and zombie NPC's.
Even simple fact of walking into the restaurant is just : " store where you can buy consumables and sell your junk ".

This game shines when we interact with important characters or going through the story. Open world has zero roleplaying potential, and it's one of the most repeated flaws of this release.

From this perspective, it does feel like open world did nothing for the game, and also stole tromendous ammount of hours from devs who could work on something else instead.
 
Unless they release update with bunch of new interactions with the open world - it added nothing.
If I'm not doing quest, driving or walking somewhere is a meaningless thing. Buildings, roads and zombie NPC's.
Even simple fact of walking into the restaurant is just : " store where you can buy consumables and sell your junk ".

This game shines when we interact with important characters or going through the story. Open world has zero roleplaying potential, and it's one of the most repeated flaws of this release.

From this perspective, it does feel like open world did nothing for the game, and also stole tromendous ammount of hours from devs who could work on something else instead.
Be specific please. What kind of meaningful interactions would like to see?
 
I was scared as hell when they announced Witcher 3 would be open world because the failure of Gothic 3 was still in my mind, but now they have clearly shown that they can deal with open worlds.

For me Night City is just so beautiful to walk and drive through, just to admire the landscape. I could not do that if Cyberpunk was not open world.

Well technically you could still do that in smaller hub locations (well maybe not the driving part but then what did the driving truly add to this game?) only real difference is that you would either need to take a cab or the subway to get to other locations in the city. I mean sure there are plenty parts of the world that look amazing but these are the parts that stick most prominently in our mind but how many other areas of the city just exist and escape our notice? Take a good look at the map and tell me honestly how much of the playable area was truly put to good use? These areas still need to be designed and polished by somebody on the team but is the effort they put into these areas really going to be noticed?

Let me put it this way, would you prefer a large but bland world or a world that is smaller but more intricate?

Regarding interactivity, a lot of people complain that civilian NPC are not interactive enough. For me, this is not the case. I walk the streets and see hundreds of random people, I do not care about them, they do not care about me. True to life indeed.

Not so much talking about the NPCs but rather interacting with the world itself, going back to Breath of the Wild as an example there are plenty of ways that you can interact with the world and a lot of different systems at play that make exploring the world interesting, in Cyberpunk there really isn't anything that truly makes use of the open world, all the merchants and important NPCs are clustered in smaller market type zones and if you are looking for interesting things to hack like cameras and whatnot these only exist in smaller mission critical areas that have no real interaction with the larger world surrounding them.

Having said that, I would still appreciate if they put more side content, such as barbers, tattoo shops, casinos, cyber-gwent tourneys, car races, brain dances etc... I'm expecting CDPR to release an enhanced edition 1 year from now with these features implemented, sort of like they did with Witcher 1 and 2 (for Witcher 3 we skipped the Enhnanced Edition because no one was complain about anything there...)

While I am sure those features would be nice you really can't have everything and expect it all to turn out with a high level of polish.

But the way need to be going forward, not backward.

To me this is probably the most infuriating mindset that I see among gamers and game development, in order to move forward you gotta go open world and open world is always the best option, it really isn't.

But hey, sometimes you gotta take a step back in one area to make a leap forward in others.
 
Keanu Reeves completely shifted development and focus, that's why its unfinished.
This is probably the dumbest thing that i always keep seeing on this forum just shows how sometimes this site knows nothing about game development ,the games story has been in the works and changed multiple times ever since the teaser ,in the end they wanted it to be about the Chip of immortality and Johnny silverhand this was the case ever since 2016 where the full development started after Blood&Wine
watch this it shows that Johnny was part of the game from the very beginning
Post automatically merged:

Cyberpunk on the other hand there really isn't anything to interact with in the world at large outside of the quests and missions
This was my main gripe with the witcher 3 ,i remember criticizing it for having a shallow open world got down voted on reddit to oblivion and people blindly defending it ,its really ironic to see people especially on reddit criticizing it for the same flaw that the witcher 3 had.

Anyway you make a good point and one thing that really got me hyped for Cyberpunk was this
You see an AD you interact with it and get a marker on where you can consume the product ,this is next level of interactivity but sadly....thats really not the case with the actual games ,there are ads for hotel/karaoke/masala/BDs yet you really cant interact with any of it and its even more jarring to see arcade machines/BDs/Board games/Billiard and yet you cant interact with any of it
 
Last edited:
In the end it feels like Cyberpunk 2077 tries to stretch itself too thin, too much effort is spent filling the map with side content that the main content does not get enough attention and fails to truly shine
The open world is one of the biggest highlights of the game. And we know the main quest content was cut/shrunk/reduced because someone in a decision making position read an article somewhere from a game urinalist complaining about Witcher 3 being "too long" and decided that CP's story needed to be shorter to make people that don't even play the game happy.
 
The open world is one of the biggest highlights of the game. And we know the main quest content was cut/shrunk/reduced because someone in a decision making position read an article somewhere from a game urinalist complaining about Witcher 3 being "too long" and decided that CP's story needed to be shorter to make people that don't even play the game happy.
They lied when they said the game was "Slightly" Shorter I was expecting 40-45 hours which is perfect imo but 20?! this is rediculous and yes there are some activities but sadly not all of them are good ,the witcher 3 was bloated in some areas yes but at the end it left me fulfilled ,not only by the story it had side quests that are incredibly fleshed out with incredibly well made monster hunts and treasure hunts that i enjoyed doing ,the witcher 3 imo had better side activities in general
 
I Agree, except in the case of the Witcher 3.. Every quest , every location. told an engaging story. Cyberpunk is just like an Ubisoft title. Littered with icons and jobs on the map that tell no story just distractions.. Such a missed oppertunity to flesh out Mike Pondsmith's world and Lore
 
I Agree, except in the case of the Witcher 3.. Every quest , every location. told an engaging story. Cyberpunk is just like an Ubisoft title. Littered with icons and jobs on the map that tell no story just distractions.. Such a missed oppertunity to flesh out Mike Pondsmith's world and Lore

Actually, many of even smallest side quests flesh out Mike Pondsmith's world and lore. There are shards scattered all over which tell additional stories, expand the lore etc. It's up to the players if they find and read them.
 
This was my main gripe with the witcher 3 ,i remember criticizing it for having a shallow open world got down voted on reddit to oblivion and people blindly defending it ,its really ironic to see people especially on reddit criticizing it for the same flaw that the witcher 3 had.

Don't really pay too much attention to what happens on reddit but I was criticising open world games since before it was cool!
 
Actually, many of even smallest side quests flesh out Mike Pondsmith's world and lore. There are shards scattered all over which tell additional stories, expand the lore etc. It's up to the players if they find and read them.
im interested to hear some opposite opinions of mine i didnt 100% everything yet anyway il break down the side activities activities and compare some of them to the ones in the witcher 3
-Side stories in Cyberpunk were phenomenal and enjoyed pretty much all of the ones i did so far

-Gigs is a little bit of a mixed bag for me ,some of them are amazing and more than worth doing but the others are generic kill/steal quests they are not bad just kinda generic i really wish i got most of the quests from other NPCs than just fixers telling me what to do then sending me a big ass wall of texts overall gigs are good but not that great

-Racing in this game is done far better than the ones in the witcher 3 but the witcher 3 had more quantity in this regard

-bandit camps in this game are done far better in this game since each one had its own unique stories compared to most bandit camps in the witcher 3

-Cyberpsychos are mostly decent but i much prefer the monster hunts in the witcher 3 for so many reasons ,i really wish they didnt rely that much on text/environmental storytelling when it comes to Cyberpsychos and ffs i wish fixers were not envolved at all

-Fist fighting i have not finished them all yet but in the witcher 3 it had way more quantity compared to this game where it only had 5 in total and its really hard to top Champion of Champions but we'll see

-and finally mini games which this game has NONE while the witcher 3 had gwent which is the perfect break from all the killing and drama ,its a very enjoyable mini game with interesting side quests connected to it ,it was positively received and the fact that they didnt include any minigames is beyond me
 

Much better, thank you.

Now that ive read your review......and.....after reading many hundreds just like it, ive come to the conclusion that many folks were just expecting too much from this game. its gotten to the point that the hair just cannot be split anymore.

My only advice to this issue is....is to try to live it ( yes i said live it) the best you can until what you deem as an acceptable experience is added. I know thats not the answer everyone wants to hear, but reading these same old complaints over and over is getting a bit monotonous. Nothing against you or any one else here for having or wanting similar things from purchases....but really, its not that bad.

Now i could have said as many here have stated and listed things like...oh, its no different than ES, FO1, 2, 3, 4, W1 , 2, 3, or even Mad Max in that matter to all be the same type game. Go around the map, collect ? and other various markers that mean nothing to the main story...finish said story, and thats it. Yep, youre doing the same thing....you just used your own mind to mix it up the way that best suited you.

I think thats the case here. Interactivity is a broad term in itself....many people use that in many different ways. Whats interactive and engaging to one isnt for another. I think its up to the player to change that interactivity to get the best out of whats in front of them.
 
Last edited:
At the end of the day we can compare the gaming microcosm with an open world game to the real world. Many people die having done next to nothing and went day to day doing what they were told because they couldn't think beyond that, beyond the societal norms. Go to school 25 years, work 50 years then die. Then there are people who go out, buck the system and live wild & free, do whatever tf they want and forge their own legacy. The first group of people often talk about the latter with confusion. What are they doing? Why are they doing that? I don't understand them. That doesn't look like fun to me. I would never do that, etc.


I'm always disappointed with how many people are so boxed in both in their lives and with their views.
 
In every game industry, absolutely among all games, Open World does not really exist. Perhaps the closest thing to it today is a space-themed game, although it still has its (technological) limits: Elite Dangerous with its 4 billion solar systems. EVE Online tried this, but it is still subject to the 'empire' (CCP, semi-PVE content environment). Here I talk about decisions that change the environment.

Other than that, there is no 'open world'. Open maps, by themselves, are just open maps (and they are not so open, they come up against immense invisible walls and limits, where the interaction is almost null).

There are two things here, concept design (changing the world around) and technical limits (what we have today that can be processed). CP is not an open world, on the contrary, the game's conception did exactly the opposite, to close the world and tie it with chains to 'quests'. He did not dare at all, just repeated formulas that already exist.

CP, in terms of game design, is a resounding failure - in my view - because it fears to dare, it fears to go further and for purely financial reasons: to sell more and more content.
 
Top Bottom