Open world games are a mistake!

[Monkeydust372]

I love open world games, I love the feeling of being able to proper immerse myself in an alternative world, but I feel like they are rarely done really well. When they are, it's either a medieval-ish fantasy, or post apocalyptic, or RDR2, never a busy city.

A realistic bustling city in an open world game would be an incredibly demanding thing to run. All the peds and vehicles that need at least a basic AI, hugely taxing on the CPU. Huge numbers of building interiors that need to be loadable, in the time the player could reasonably get to them, huge amount of storage space required, fast too. From a developer standpoint, incredibly time-consuming, and therefore expensive.

I still do love urban open world games, but appreciate there are technical limitations that can lead to them feeling a bit empty. Hopefully, as devs learn to fully exploit the new(ish) consoles, we will see big leaps in what is possible.

 

[Didacgomez]

I have a little bit of mixed feelings with open worlds... i kind of see that developers moved from overworld maps were to keep the "tension" they were throwing random generated encounters every now and then (and sometimes in a very frustating way) to filling the map with stuff. If that stuff is not randomized and I can hide markers i'm fine,if not I prefer hub based(that can be punishing if the amount of xp/money is too limited and the game rewards optimal builds)

 

[LeKill3rFou]

Honestly, if I have to choose, I prefer open world in games. I like the feeling to being "lost" in the middle of a big map where you can go wherever you want. You see something intersting in a distance, you can go see it.
It doesn't mean that I don't like hub based (some of my favorite games are hub based), but it's not as good in my opinion.
And for the "filling" icons on the map, I generally do it only if it's fun. If not, they stay on the map until the end, no problem (I don't care about achievements...) For example, two weeks ago, it was the very first time that I completely cleaned the Skellige's map on TW3^^.
So for me, open worlds in games are not a mistake at all

 

[Guest 3847602]

i kind of see that developers moved from overworld maps were to keep the "tension" they were throwing random generated encounters every now and then (and sometimes in a very frustating way) to filling the map with stuff.

Exactly how I feel about it. If you're using random encounters and procedurally generated quests as a substitute for the proper, handcrafted quests (because your map would have been pretty empty otherwise), then it's a perfect sign that your open world is way too big.

For example, two weeks ago, it was the very first time that I completely cleaned the Skellige's map on TW3

In all these years, I've cleaned up Skellige map just 2 times, when I was doing my 2 completionist runs. It's literally just the test of patience and persistence, nothing of value, it still boggles my mid why it's in the game.

 

[LeKill3rFou]

In all these years, I've cleaned up Skellige map just 2 times, when I was doing my 2 completionist runs. It's literally just the test of patience and persistence, nothing of value, it still boggles my mid why it's in the game.

Honestly, few good points to do it finally.
- I earned a whole ton of money with that (level 42, leveled items, good price to sell).
- I discover Birna Bran (dead) that I never see before.
- I discover a quest that I never did before (on the "big" island, the guy who ask about books).
- And a bonus, a griffin level 48 on the same island (a little bit challenging in B.B.B at level 42 and surprising on Skellige)
But also some bad moments... Sirens are annoying as hell! They "destroy" my boat twice at more than 1K meters from the nearest TP point (obviously with a giant overload...). Swimming that long very slowly, is not fun at all

 

[Guest 3847602]

Honestly, few good points to do it finally.
- I earned a whole ton of money with that (level 42, leveled items, good price to sell).
- I discover Birna Bran (dead) that I never see before.
- I discover a quest that I never did before (on the "big" island, the guy who ask about books).
- And a bonus, a griffin level 48 on the same island (a little bit challenging in B.B.B at level 42 and surprising on Skellige)

You can also encounter a ghost ship and discover another hard-to-find quest, From a Land Far, Far Away, but I'd still preferred if 3/4 of those smuggler's caches in Skellige did not exist.

Sirens are annoying as hell! They "destroy" my boat twice at more than 1K meters from the nearest TP point (obviously with a giant overload...). Swimming that long very slowly, is not fun at all

It's especially fun when it happens while you're over the weight limit.

 

[moonknightgog]

There are shards scattered all over which tell additional stories, expand the lore etc. It's up to the players if they find and read them.

No. Shards aren't stories. Stories in an RPG is something that the player's characters interacts with and can express opinions on. It is something that serves to increase characterization of the protagonist. A text detailing the story of a place is boring and meaningless because it has no relevance to the player, the character and the role playing. Expecially if the quest that you find that text in is a mindless kill/fetch quest.

Why should anyone care about the text contained in an object, if the player's character doesn't acknowledge it or react to it in anyway?

Do I have to reming you how different were the sidequests in all the three witcher games, and how well integrated they were in the main quest (in the first two)?

 

[LeKill3rFou]

Do I have to reming you how different were the sidequests in all the three witcher games, and how well integrated they were in the main quest (in the first two)?

GIGs are not side quests. they are the equivalent in CP to Witcher contracts in TW3.
And NCPD Scanner Hustles are the equivalent in CP to "?" undiscovered location in TW3.
In both games, there is a "very little story" for each (when there is one) and generally lot of shards for Cyberpunk and books/letters in TW3 to understand better what it happened. In this case, CP and TW3 are not that different, except by the name of the text's support (shards, books or letters...)

It's especially fun when it happens while you're over the weight limit.

Yeah, it's always the case anyway

 

[Guest 3847602]

Why should anyone care about the text contained in an object, if the player's character doesn't acknowledge it or react to it in anyway?

A lot of people on this forum loved and cared about the quest Little Red in TW3. And it's almost entirely do to the letter you can find on her corpse (on which Geralt doesn't react to).

 

[moonknightgog]

they are the equivalent in CP to Witcher contracts in TW3.

And Witcher contracts are side quests.

It's a type of missions, they are so called in RPGs. Quest. Side Quest. Mini quest

Post automatically merged: Feb 8, 2022

A lot of people on this forum loved and cared about the quest Little Red in TW3.

It's not the same thing, because you interact with the story of Little Red, you talk to her and the peasants and make decisions. The text then enhanced the story you have played. But in Cyberpunk the shards are isolated and do not relate to the side quests and/or decisions that V makes, because there aren't any

 

[LeKill3rFou]

And Witcher contracts are side quests.

They are not. Like in Cyberpunk, they are not in the same tab in the quest journal (Side Quest tab/Witcher Contracts tab/Jobs tab)
Maybe you can consider them as side quests. But at least, for CDPR, it's not the case

But in Cyberpunk the shards are isolated and do not relate to the side quests and/or decisions that V makes, because there aren't any

I suppose you didn't read them
Few examples amount plenty (a large amount of shards are related to events/characters/quests in the game) :

Spoiler

- Archived Conversation: Nasim Perlman and Tucker Albach
- Gig: Eye for an Eye
---------
- Archived Conversation: Takeshi and Jotaro
- Gig: Monster Hunt
--------
Aldecaldos? Panam Palmer?
Archived Conversation: Fara Dupont and Placide

And the vast majority of letters/books in TW3 are not related at all to Geralt's decisions nor quest events.

But anyway, it's like TW3, if you don't want read shards (more than 550^^), fine. Players have the choice.

 

[Wenceslaus]

No. Shards aren't stories. Stories in an RPG is something that the player's characters interacts with and can express opinions on. It is something that serves to increase characterization of the protagonist. A text detailing the story of a place is boring and meaningless because it has no relevance to the player, the character and the role playing. Expecially if the quest that you find that text in is a mindless kill/fetch quest.

Why should anyone care about the text contained in an object, if the player's character doesn't acknowledge it or react to it in anyway?

Do I have to reming you how different were the sidequests in all the three witcher games, and how well integrated they were in the main quest (in the first two)?

I feel like you are talking about movies, not games. There is no 'Chekhov's Gun' rule. You could be just building the world.

I do not see much difference between "Hey witcher, something's digging up bodies at graveyard!"
and "My clients' son died of overdose and will pay to see this drug den burn" to be honest.

 

[Guest 3847602]

It's not the same thing, because you interact with the story of Little Red, you talk to her and the peasants and make decisions. The text then enhanced the story you have played. But in Cyberpunk the shards are isolated and do not relate to the side quests and/or decisions that V makes, because there aren't any

Huh? There are loads and loads of books, letters and notes in TW3 that doesn't relate to any quest. There are shards and emails that does enhance the story you are playing in Cyberpunk. There are gigs (like Last Login or Scrolls Before Swine) where you can get extra dialogue option if you've read the email or seen the video file attached to it).

 

[CS554]

No. Shards aren't stories. Stories in an RPG is something that the player's characters interacts with and can express opinions on. It is something that serves to increase characterization of the protagonist. A text detailing the story of a place is boring and meaningless because it has no relevance to the player, the character and the role playing. Expecially if the quest that you find that text in is a mindless kill/fetch quest.

Why should anyone care about the text contained in an object, if the player's character doesn't acknowledge it or react to it in anyway?

Excuse for not giving a fuck about the Witcher series but in CP 2077 there is lots of content in shards that is interconnected to other gigs and world building, factions, power dynamics and individuals in the Night City. For example they are mini stories that give context not only some individual crime, mindsets what caused things to happen, describing poor impulse control, drugs, unable to make real long term goals ending up clusterfucks like they do in real life.

Information found from shards giving more information is relevant to some player choices particularly regarding some gigs and that doesn't only give more information to player if their V wants to solve things via killing or achieving goal by knock out and further, for example there's particular fixer and player can find information which may lead player to ponder if their V will consider that one as hypocrite despite that one trying to appear like someone whom have values outside of money and power.

They are also very economic to players as in general people read fast. Making all that stuff available via dialogue and conversation option would seriously drag pace of game down a lot. It would just make access to that information more convoluted.