Opening kegs is really boring and unrewarding

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Opening kegs is really boring and unrewarding

Perhaps its just me, but out of all the 15+ TCG games I've played online, I find openings to be the most boring/uninteresting. I'm not sure what it is, the color, sound animations, but its just meh. I also have opened 20ish packs and have yet to find a gold, and have found only 1 silver. At rates like these I wouldn't want to spend any money honestly, just not worth it.
 
I could think of a few things...

1. The rarity of a card is known before you flip it because of the highlighted border, which makes it less exciting.
2. Too few commons compared to rares and epics, which makes the duplication rate too big.
3. Knowing the 5th selection is always rare or higher.
4. The keg selection is a slide show (first 4 cards, then 5th, then results), while it should all be shown on one screen.
5. The troll is annoying
6. The troll is very annoying
 
I post this here because it suits the thread, but this post stems from another in which I suggest the rarity system be reduced to Bronze, Silver & Gold (no more Common-Legendary or colors). The following assumes such a system.

[1] Reality Check
Many have expressed a reduced interest in opening kegs. Even free kegs. The experience is neither fun nor rewarding. Too many duplicates, too many "Rare" cards on the final selection. Naturally, players are even less interested in buying kegs. This system needs an overhaul.

In theory, Gwent kegs should be exciting. When you go to that next screen, you know it has something (relatively) good.
In reality, because you're guaranteed Rare+, a degree of certainty exists that decreases the "anything is possible" thrill. And because Rare is the minimum, Rare is a disappointment.

I played Magic (real world) for years. When you open a card pack, everything inside is a mystery. Each card could be anything! That "unknown" factor is key. CDPR needs to capture this real world excitement.

[2] No "Select A Card" & No Slide Show
Have all 5 cards explode onto one screen. The cards are fixed. This may sound worse, and some may complain at first, but it will improve the experience of opening kegs. Think of how people feel when they play an RPG. No one complains about scripted scenes. But they do complain when forced to make a choice (Mass Effect style) and don't like any of the options they're given. Real world packs have fixed cards, and people love opening them.

[3] No More Preview
Without rarity colors, highlighted borders won't exist. But the faction should also be unknown. Each card should look the same, with a generic back featuring the Gwent logo. When you click one, it transforms and turns over. I envision a cool animation, like a virus spreading through the card, rippling out from the spot you clicked like your touch is changing it. But a quick animation; don't drag it out. This allows each card to be a complete mystery until the moment it's revealed.

[4] No Guaranteed Card Types
All Bronze will be equal, so no need to guarantee "Rare." Silver & Gold were never guaranteed before. So no guarantees in the keg at all. This is for the best. Each card can be anything. Anything is possible.

[5] Increase Drop Rates
CDPR may believe that low drop rates make players buy more kegs, but making kegs unrewarding does not make players want more. CDPR needs to increase keg value with better drop rates on superior cards. And if CDPR is concerned about Silver & Gold saturation, just decrease the number of free kegs being opened by increasing their Ore cost.

[6] Different Shops
CDPR is clearly hoping for mass appeal (12 & Up) with Gwent. As such, they need to realize that their tastes are not universal. They may like Shupe (crude humor and all), and many may like Shupe, but many do not. If CDPR wants Gwent to succeed, and wants people to enjoy visiting the Shop to spend real money on kegs, they need to let players choose from a variety of Shops. A Skellige tavern with a grizzly bartender or a sassy barmaid. City merchants. Forest elves. Mountain dwarves. They should create different settings and characters, developed characters with names. Shupe would be just one of many. That way players can connect with a new cast of characters, the Gwent Shopkeepers.
 
4RM3D;n10135692 said:
5. The troll is annoying
6. The troll is very annoying

Go easy on the troll. Look at how much effort he puts into breaking those kegs for you

shadowick;n10137792 said:
No "Select A Card"
I like the select a card aspect, otherwise the number of duplicate cards, particularly rares, goes up. In a draft format, you may prioritise a card you want for your deck over the optimal choice and this is the closest way of replicating that feeling at present.

I'd like a no duplicate rule for singleton rarities. Increase the number of commons or ditch the common rarity. Consider having paid for kegs containing 2x rare+ card slots
 
shadowick;n10137792 said:

Great suggestions man, I think I suggested something similar to your first point.

I mildly disagree only on the card choice of 5th card, I think it is really player-friendly mechanic and superior to just 5 cards.

It is impossible to do in paper cards so it wasn't done, it not only makes players happy but gives them degree of long term thinking in regards to building collection.

 
Suggestion when opening a keg:
Display 15 cards, all with the same generic back
- There is a guarantee that there is 1 gold and 2 silver there
- The player chooses 5 cards

 
I would have to disagree. It's not like you'd expect your average pack or keg or whatnot to just explode with gold and premium cards. If you're a "collect em all" type you'll love keg opening regardless. Elsewise you're to be let down if you're expecting more than a bunch of scraps with the nice little chance of getting a free premium version of something in your deck. Opening packs in cards games is meant more as a cheap lottery experience than opening a gift, for instance
 
Makhil;n10138592 said:
Display 15 cards, all with the same generic back
- There is a guarantee that there is 1 gold and 2 silver there
- The player chooses 5 cards

That's a 33% drop chance for a legendary, which is insane.
 
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I think the biggest problem that many of you might not realize is that there is just 1 generic keg type that can have every single card as opposed to expansions. Yeah, sure, it was fine with the little updates, but with over 100 cards being added in the midwinter update and most of them being rare+, it becomes really horribče when you're looking for 1 or a few specific cards.

The thing that's exciting about opening a new expansion is because you know that the first few packs will have completely new cards that you didnt have before, even if your drop rate is bad you're at least happy to have new cards to play with. You can also choose to complete an expansion that you have almost everything of by crafting and focus on opening another one, right now it's bad because you can effectivelly get the card you just crafted in your very next keg.
(I have enough scraps to finish my collection non premium, but refuse to because then the kegs would be just worthless ore-to scraps converting)
 
I confess, I never imagined I would develop such a taste for forum interaction. But quality comments are an inspiring thing.

[2.1] "Select A Card" Bonus
I maintain that the unknown factor is key, mystery must last until the last moment, and the Slide Show (to quote 4RM3D) must go. But I admit there is value in utilizing the unique strengths of the virtual medium, and so propose the following.

As suggested:
  • 5 cards on one screen
  • All cards are fixed
  • Generic "Gwent" backs
  • Transform after click
With This Addition:
All 5 cards are side by side in a horizontal row (like now). When you click on one, sometimes a different animation event occurs, and the card explodes into 2 cards positioned vertically (one above the other), with both cards continuing to transform and turn over. You then select the card you want.

This will not be guaranteed, but will be relatively common. So it's possible it may not happen in a keg (if you're unlucky), but it could theoretically happen up to 5 times (if you're very lucky). And the chance of getting a 2-card choice is not connected to the chance of getting Silver or Gold. So when you open the keg, it fixes the cards based on one calculation (with low drop rates on Silver & Gold). Separately, it calculates whether each card (#1-5) will split, using a random roll with an equal chance for each card position.

Example: When you open the keg, it calculates whether each card (#1-5) splits, returns "No" on 1/2/4, but "Yes" on 3/5. It also fixes the cards, without considering split results. Randomly, it fixes 3 as "Boulder" & 5 as "Scorch." Since 3 is Bronze and 5 is Silver, it randomly selects another Bronze & Silver (respectively). When you click on card #5, instead of simply transforming into "Scorch" as it turns over, it explodes into "Scorch" & "Cleaver."

This would keep the "Select A Card" feature, while still keeping everything a mystery. It would also be exciting, because the explosion is like opening a "snake in a can" (the prop gag). It jolts you, because you never know when it will happen (unlike the current "Pick 3" screen). And the split animation should have explosive audio to accompany the visual, so every time it happens you get an unexpected burst of energy to your senses. This would revitalize the experience of opening kegs, injecting spontaneous unpredictable possibilities into every card reveal.

SIDE NOTE: I want to tip my hat to Makhil for thinking outside the box. That's a creative concept, as it turns kegs into a mini-game. And obviously, every Gwent fan loves mini-games. But it would introduce new issues. As 4RM3D points out, one is the potential flood of Gold. But also imagine the poor guy or gal who picks 5 Bronze 20 times in a row, knowing they missed out on 20 Gold & 40 Silver.

[5.1] Drop Rates VS Special Kegs
I maintain that kegs need to be more attractive. In particular, buying kegs (with real money) needs to be more attractive. But after more thought, rather than increase Silver/Gold drop rates (and potentially Ore cost) on all kegs, I think CDPR should have more special deals. Instead of one-time purchases like the Starter Pack, though, have rolling specials (as GOG does). And instead of just having generic "X Kegs @ Reduced Cost + Animated Silver/Gold" deals (which are fine) they should have themed kegs.

Use the term "Common" for the current kegs. These can be free, received as rewards, bought with Ore, or bought in bulk with real money. They favor Bronze cards but have a chance of giving you Silver & Gold.

Then have "Premium" kegs (this term is no longer used for cards, which are now "Animated"). These cost real money, and are sold in single units (you can buy multiple kegs at once, but no bulk discount). They are more expensive than Common kegs, but they offer certain guarantees based on themes.

Example: Guaranteed Silver & Gold cards. "The Lodge" kegs have a sorceress (Fringilla, Triss, Yennefer, etc). "Witcher" kegs a Witcher (Lambert, Letho, Geralt, Ciri; Yes, Ciri). "Tavern" kegs a bard (Dandelion, Priscilla, Draig Bon-Dhu) or other themed card (Odrin, Ale of the Ancestors, etc).

Example: Guaranteed theme, but no Bronze/Silver/Gold guarantee. "Animation" keg (Animated card). "Machine" keg. "Spy" keg. "Beast" keg. Faction kegs.

There are many possibilities. And CDPR would be wise to consider them. The Shop could use more variety on kegs (for real money), because you want people to spend money, but when free kegs and purchased kegs are identical and often have only Bronze cards, the desire to buy kegs plummets.

[6.1] Shop Expansion
I want to reemphasize that for players to enjoy opening kegs, it helps if they enjoy being in the place where you open kegs. CDPR needs to develop Gwent as a complete game. Flesh out the Shop so players enjoy spending time there. The goal (from a business standpoint) is to make money, and you make money on the Shop, so don't treat the Shop as an inconvenient side trip before you hurry back to multiplayer. The Shop needs to be a popular destination in its own right.

As previously stated, various settings and characters are needed, and those characters need robust dialogue. They should make random comments, and maybe even have interactive options where players can talk to them (and their mouths should move, unlike current Shupe). In the Witcher games, you could hear stories about the world (Example: An innkeeper in TW1 told the story of Ciri...with errors, in my opinion, but still). Gwent could have the same thing. Program a variety of dialogue options, and have the Shopkeepers change them each day (cycling through the list randomly until all options have been used, then reset and select them randomly again, but do NOT have them appear once and vanish forever, because that's mean to players who can't log in every day). Also, have random scenes trigger in the background while players are in the Shop, so it can be fun to sit and watch (like watching Animated cards for easter eggs, but again these should be repeatable, not show once then never again). This will make the Shop fun to visit, and players may enjoy the experience so much they decide to buy something while there as a "thank you" to CDPR for going that extra mile.

[7] Do More With Ore
Another reason kegs are boring is because Ore is boring. Ore isn't a currency. It's just a counter; when it fills up to 100%, you get a free keg.

CDPR should have more things you can buy with Ore. Here are some ideas:
  • Trinkets (Avatars & Frames)
  • Taunts (More customization for player interaction)
  • Adventures (Add single-player content in the Adventures section)
  • Menu Artwork (Different images for Casual/Ranked/Practice/etc; for those who hate Yennefer)
  • Background Music (Instead of just Gwent or TW3 Gwent music, you can get every track from the Witcher games)
Again there are many possibilities. How this relates to kegs is that Ore becomes a currency. The choice to buy a keg is not your ONLY choice. That gives players a sense of agency, which makes kegs more interesting because the player chose to spend their Ore on that item instead of something else.

SIDE NOTE: CDPR may already be planning this on Trinkets, because those you could only unlock in past seasons still appear as "Locked" on your account, which implies you can still unlock them somehow. It makes sense: give them as free rewards to hardcore players, let them boast exclusive cosmetics for a while, then let others purchase them (like how preorder bonuses on games are later released to everyone; but if they include Titles, only season Titles, as "Pioneer" should remain sacred). I only hope CDPR makes season Trinkets cost Ore (higher cost for higher rarity, but ONLY Ore, so gameplay is still required to unlock them). Because charging real money in this case will be viewed as soulless greed.

[8] Adventures For Sale
NOTE: Though not related to kegs, I want to explain this because I mention it above. And because it IS related to making things less boring.

CDPR should introduce "Adventure Scrolls/Books" as an item in the Shop. These would add content to the Adventures section. Some should cost Ore. And some should cost real money. The following are examples of each.

Leader Challenges:
As stated in another post, I believe that Leader cards should be unique (unlock with Challenges, no Mill/Craft/Transmute). But as an alternative to my suggestion that they be received by default, all Leader Challenges could be purchased in the Shop with Ore. No Leader Challenges would be available by default, thus all Leaders would still be treated equally.

Holiday Challenges:
Past Holiday Challenges (Mahakam Ale Festival, etc) could be sold for real money in the Shop. This would permanently add them to your Adventures section. Everyone wins here. Holiday Challenges are still free to those who are active during the event, but after the event ends you can buy it and be able to replay it whenever you want. It only grants rewards once. So once you unlock the avatar/frame/title there is nothing more to gain, but you can still play it for the story. As CDPR values storytelling, it would be a shame to deny new players the ability to experience these Witcher tales. Personally, I missed Mahakam Ale Festival (busy), so I would definitely buy that, and I caught Saovine, but I would buy it too for the story (I'm also a completionist; so I would want the full collection of Adventures). And on Holiday Challenges specifically, I think they should ONLY be sold for real money. CDPR gave them out once for free, but they weren't free for CDPR. It costs money to write and program, so fans should (and would, I hope) be happy to buy these Adventures to reward CDPR for their work.

Conclusion
Despite my obvious bias, I believe these features would objectively benefit everyone. CDPR would give players more reason to spend real money. Kegs would be more interesting. Ore would be more interesting. And the entire experience of playing Gwent would be more energizing.

The more time I spend in these forums, the more hopeful (and less jaded) I become. I believe Gwent can still be something special, and I hope someone with influence brings this thread to the attention of CDPR. CDPR may dismiss these ideas, but at least they will have been introduced to them.
 
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shadowick;n10141802 said:
I confess, I never imagined I would develop such a taste for forum interaction...

I won't comment on each of your suggestions but would just like to commend you for presenting many creative and thoughtful ideas in posts that are also well written. I agree with most of your suggestions and hope that CDPR will take them into consideration.

Kudos to you, keep on posting!
 
Doydl;n10141332 said:
I think the biggest problem that many of you might not realize is that there is just 1 generic keg type that can have every single card as opposed to expansions. Yeah, sure, it was fine with the little updates, but with over 100 cards being added in the midwinter update and most of them being rare+, it becomes really horribče when you're looking for 1 or a few specific cards.

The thing that's exciting about opening a new expansion is because you know that the first few packs will have completely new cards that you didnt have before, even if your drop rate is bad you're at least happy to have new cards to play with. You can also choose to complete an expansion that you have almost everything of by crafting and focus on opening another one, right now it's bad because you can effectivelly get the card you just crafted in your very next keg.
(I have enough scraps to finish my collection non premium, but refuse to because then the kegs would be just worthless ore-to scraps converting)

I think this is a good point and should be implemented.
 
shadowick;n10141802 said:
Special Kegs

You have a lot of interesting suggestions, but I must intervene with this one. Special kegs could be introduced, but they cannot affect the drop-rate because of the F2P/P2W balance. What is possible is having premium kegs as suggested in this thread, but it's going to be pricey. Another possibility, now that we have plenty of cards, is to create faction specific kegs, like suggested in this thread, though CDPR should carefully balance the price of those.
 
I second that it does feel a bit unrewarding when you're only getting 1 legendary and 2-3 epics every 15-20 ish card kegs. Maybe if the rate of silver drops was higher, would make up for the lack of golds. However I do like how there is a choice of 3 for the final card, but too often I find myself picking from cards I already have.... Which I feel happens to often, surely you could guarantee that at least with legendaries you're not getting cards that you already own. Especially when the mill rate is 1/4. Perhaps it is a combination of both the rate of drops and finding cards you already own that is the disappointment.

And I would also second caution when changing the balance of access to kegs between f2p and "p2w". There should be a reasonable exchange rate between time and money. You can either put the time in or if you're time poor you can pay. But to create something only accessable to those that pay for it, or placing objects outside of reasonable reach of those that don't pay (or don't pay $100's) is a tactic that cheap and addictive mobile games employ and I don't think Gwent should. I gave Gwent money with the hopes that they're different...

@shadowick I understand the Shupe criticism, but most other digital card games don't bother with anything. And I'm not sure how much of an additional investment in designing new animations for the store would be worth it (maybe it could be purchasable, like a skin mod?). Although I do love a lot of your ideas for alternates.
And your idea to monetize the holiday challenges after the event is I think really solid.
 
4RM3D;n10144392 said:
Special kegs could be introduced, but they cannot affect the drop-rate because of the F2P/P2W balance.

CarolLiddell;n10144442 said:
And I would also second caution when changing the balance of access to kegs between f2p and "p2w". There should be a reasonable exchange rate between time and money.

[1] F2P Illiterate
Fair point. I won't claim to be an expert on the F2P business model. Quite the contrary. My own company is rooted in the "nothing is free" reality, and I am uncompromising in my approach to business. No handouts. No discounts. Everything costs. You want what we have; you pay what it costs. Period.

For this reason, I don't identify with people who believe they are entitled to something for nothing. Naturally, F2P games attract people who believe exactly that, and thus my views differ from those of most players in a F2P community. I understand the F2P model relies on maintaining balance wherein everything can be attained for free, and at a reasonable rate, but a rate also just slow enough that impatient players will make purchases to accelerate the process. But I don't always understand the need to cater to those unwilling to pay. And I'm not criticizing those individuals, but conceding that perhaps my suggestions (which are suited to my realm of business) may not belong here. In other words, I may be an oak telling sharks to stand still.

My interest in Gwent stems from my interest in the Witcher franchise. I was originally going to wait for the single-player campaign, because all I wanted was more Witcher. But I got curious and joined in Closed Beta. This sparked my interest in the game as a whole. Recently I resolved to dismiss Gwent (and future CDPR games like Cyberpunk) and move on, accepting (and respecting) that I was not their audience anymore. Then I turned a 180 and decided to engage. I like games. I like Gwent. So as a gift to myself I began posting, so that if Gwent did not turn out to my liking, at least I tried.

My point here is that, as you can imagine, mine are the suggestions of one who is willing to pay for everything so long as I get everything in return. I try to propose ideas that consider both the F2P gamers and the CDPR need to make money. I may fail in this regard. When I do, by all means, feel free to mutate my ideas into something more suited to the F2P realm. Because sometimes I just flat don't know what I'm talking about.

CarolLiddell;n10144442 said:
I'm not sure how much of an additional investment in designing new animations for the store would be worth it (maybe it could be purchasable, like a skin mod?).

[2] Shop Skins
True. Developing the default Shop may not be a wise investment. But it would be nice to have the option of purchasing Shop Skins. Or perhaps they could include Shop Skins with the single-player campaigns. They have already stated there will be one for each faction. Maybe Thronebreaker could add a variety of NR themed Shops & Shopkeepers, with all the bells and whistles I mentioned. The ST campaign would add elves and dwarves, forests and mountains. And so on. Maybe they could do both, sell Skins in the Shop, and also include them in the campaigns. Whatever works. It just seems like a missed opportunity to leave it as is.
 
I love the idea of different shop keepers-- just to add a little variety.

I'm fine with the 4 then 1 of 3 card selection-- the minimal change I'd recommend was to get rid of the colored border before you turn over the cards.

Finally, once you have a certain number of cards, you've got to expect that opening a keg is mainly for scraps.
 
SrdjanB;n10137992 said:
I mildly disagree only on the card choice of 5th card, I think it is really player-friendly mechanic and superior to just 5 cards.
CarolLiddell;n10144442 said:
I do like how there is a choice of 3 for the final card
antlers;n10148272 said:
I'm fine with the 4 then 1 of 3 card selection

[1] Because Rarity
The key factor in my proposed change to card selection (No "Pick 1 of 3") is that I also propose CDPR change the rarity system (No "Common-Legendary").

Sampled From Another Post:

CDPR should ditch the extra labels (and colors) and just have Bronze, Silver & Gold. Keep it clean and classic.

As you can have 3 of all Bronze cards, all should be equally valuable. So let "Bronze" be the most common card type with no distinction between one Bronze and another. And reduce crafting cost to the current Common amounts (no need to be mean and raise them).

With only Bronze/Silver/Gold, to guarantee higher rank cards on that final selection requires that you guarantee Silver or Gold. And that's too much. However, were CDPR to simplify rarity labels (as I strongly feel they should) and keep the card selection mechanic as is, perhaps they could do so with the guarantee of Animated Bronze, or Silver or Gold (no Animated guarantee on Silver/Gold). This would streamline the rarity system, keep the traditional keg system intact (with the guarantee of relatively superior cards on the "Pick 1 of 3" screen), and still not increase drop rate of Silver & Gold.

[2] Something To Consider
My suggestions on Rarity & Leaders in the "New Level of Card" thread were based on objective observations. Redundant labels are redundant & arbitrary is arbitrary. Unequal Leaders are unequal & playing favorites plays favorites. But even after I conceived solutions to those problems, I still never imagined anything but the current "Pick 1 of 3" system.

Only after seeing this thread did I begin to consider keg opening alternatives. Because I too find the experience unrewarding. And if multiple players feel this way, you can extrapolate that a percentage of players feel this way. Everyone does not vocalize their views (which is why polls and forums make poor guides, as most don't post in forums or vote in polls, but everyone votes with their wallet). But that people have these views means they must be considered if CDPR wants to optimize the appeal of their game (and the number of wallets being opened in turn).

In short, that the system would benefit from some adjustments is certain. What those adjustments should be is up to CDPR.
 
They should just let you save up for ore for a higher level of keg. 300 ore guarantees a silver or gold, 500 (or higher as the designers want) gets you at least 1 rare in the first round and your choice of 3 golds in the second round. As for making the process better, the troll at the beginning is funny enough but there should be other dealers that you can toggle. Make the dealers trinkets and unlockable by ranking up or participating in event quests like the vampires and holiday events. As for the kegs themselves, give choices on all 5 cards. I know I would feel better about kegs if I could get cards I don't have (worth 30 plus scrap because I don't have to make them) rather than the 9th copy of card I have never used (true story.) Finally for razzle dazzle throw in new reveal animations. Instead of simply flipping them over have them ascend, decend, shuffle, etc...
 
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