Opinion on Fixer "unlocking gigs" process 1.5

[Ydiss2077]

I've not seen a lot of chatter about this and 1.5 landed when I'd finished almost all of the gigs on the V I was playing at the time but I've started a new V and have cleared Watson, Westbrook and almost Badlands with this new method. In case you don't know what I'm talking about, I mean the new way fixers don't allow you to take any gig in any order. They only allow you to take a handful and then you unlock more as you finish each "batch" for them. They send you a motivational text message and I guess the intention was for this to feel like some type of RPG quest progression system.

Well, I did give it a chance but I just dislike it overall but think it could be changed a little to make it better and retain the feeling of progression with the fixer. I think 1.5 has improved the game in many ways, including the way you get a nice little reward for completing each fixer's gigs in total but this change just has not improved the game in my estimation.

I think I know what they were going for but it just falls very flat. What it ultimately results in is a much more linear feel. This is not good in my opinion. It also means that, if you're completing a single fixer's gigs in sequence, you're often lead on a little merry-go-round chase where they're annoyingly sending you back-tracking to locations you were only just at. I just didn't enjoy this at all. It felt disjointed. It didn't feel better. And in some cases it was annoying.

I think the idea isn't that bad and perhaps it could just be tweaked a touch. For example, Regina has 22 gigs in total. But she offers them roughly two at a time, which is horrible. I'd say it would be fine if she offered batches of 10, then 10 and then 2 final "end game" gigs. That would retain the feel of progression but keep it very much non-linear. In fact, I'd suggest they all work this way. Half up front, half once you've done those and then 1-2 final jobs (ideally just one to be honest) to "round it up".

Anyway, that's how I feel about it. TLDR:

Pros:

• I like how it adds a feeling of progression with the fixers
• The end reward is a nice touch

Cons:

• The number of available gigs at any time is far too limited (as low as just 2 at a time)
• It makes the process feel way more linear and anti-open world.
• They're often far flung about the region, which results in a lot of back-tracking, often enough annoyingly so.

Suggestion:

• Change it so the fixer offers roughly 50% of their gigs initially then the rest after they're completed, with one or two "finale" gigs at the end once you've done them all (or in the case of low total gig counts, like Wakado's 8, just allow us to do all but 1-2 initially).

I honestly gave it a full swing and a fair shake and I think it has some merit but the current implementation just doesn't make the game better so perhaps a compromise might help improve it.

 

[Guest 4561861]

I happen to like it. I agree that it does seem more linear, but that also adds immersion. It felt "wrong" just walking by a place and the fixer suddenly having a job. As for back-tracking, it really doesn't take that long on a bike, and it does let you explore more and do "random" NCPD encounters.
It also clears up the map and your journal. Just my opinion. And thanks for sharing yours.

 

[LeKill3rFou]

Maybe not ideal, but at least, it's better than before where all the Jobs were available directly at the beginning

 

[Ydiss2077]

Yeh, to both, this is why I suggest somewhere in between. It's just too linear right now. It feels more like running a tick-sheet errand list that's always, 100% the same every time you play the game.

 

[cartlidge]

I got used to doing them in a streamlined order before, it got very samey, I didn't like them all at once, I used to come up with my own limits. When I played an assassin I would only do the hit and kill type jobs.

I'd like to see the job types used more.. hmmm..

so at any time I would like one of each job type placed somewhere in a fixers district. Once you complete a single job type, it is replaced by one of the same type until there are no more. I'd like the order of the gigs randomized, perhaps one last finale one for each, doesn't have to be anything too mad, killing Jotaro for instance in watson is a nice finisher

new jobs would not appear immediately, they would be replaced at some point in the next 24 hours (gametime) with a call from the fixer or a text telling you more work is available

I like the rewards for completing all the gigs. This SMG build, only reginas reward is needed for me and I like that, it doesn't make me feel I have to complete the whole game.

 

[LeKill3rFou]

killing Jotaro for instance in watson is a nice finisher

Bad idea, I have to do it before a main quest !
Anyway, I just hoped that Jobs appear in a "random" order (simply that could make the "replay" a little bit more interesting).

 

[andrewdilley]

I got used to doing them in a streamlined order before, it got very samey, I didn't like them all at once, I used to come up with my own limits. When I played an assassin I would only do the hit and kill type jobs.

I'd like to see the job types used more.. hmmm..

so at any time I would like one of each job type placed somewhere in a fixers district. Once you complete a single job type, it is replaced by one of the same type until there are no more. I'd like the order of the gigs randomized, perhaps one last finale one for each, doesn't have to be anything too mad, killing Jotaro for instance in watson is a nice finisher

new jobs would not appear immediately, they would be replaced at some point in the next 24 hours (gametime) with a call from the fixer or a text telling you more work is available

I like the rewards for completing all the gigs. This SMG build, only reginas reward is needed for me and I like that, it doesn't make me feel I have to complete the whole game.

Like the OP I started a new play-though for 1.5, and because I'd done all the gigs in previous sessions it did feel odd that ones I knew 'should' be there weren't being offered. But now I think it's better the way it's handled now, feels more natural how jobs become available and you have to make a special journey to reach them. I used to feel obliged to clean-up a district just because I was there, which did feel a bit of a chore after a while. Travelling is fun, and gives a sense of purpose to the gigs.

I like the sound of this idea to expand it based on job type, I think it could make it feel even more natural. Would need to run some more play-throughs to see if they were already randomised I guess. Are the jobs offered progressively harder, has anyone noticed?

 

[LeKill3rFou]

Would need to run some more play-throughs to see if they were already randomised I guess.

Almost completed my run in 1.5 and probably start a new one in the next few hours (I hope it's random, but I doubt).

 

[CS554]

Cons:

• The number of available gigs at any time is far too limited (as low as just 2 at a time)
• It makes the process feel way more linear and anti-open world.
• They're often far flung about the region, which results in a lot of back-tracking, often enough annoyingly so.

There's more and that deals with strength of non-linear story telling in video games as form of expression. That what they have over books and movies and CP 2077 is had something very unique in that regard.

This is a bit difficult and there are countless of variations of this, but here's one for example.

Your average person sees an ad. It has people who are running a store and try to appear like normal people doing ordinary things and working in store like anybody. So our average person happens to visit that store later and see that it looks like section where customers come in, fresh vegetable, fruits and bread and such products appears a tiny bit more spacious than in other stores. However a bit later our average person notices there's not much space between other shelves with other products and comes to notice that in the end how store is packed is very dense, even making it a bit uncomfortable.

But our average person picks some food items and goes to cashier. There are only two lanes and when cashier ask something simple like "credit or debit?" but then she messes it up. She asks again and get's it wrong again, finally third time she gets it right. Our average person meaning also average age, so has seen a bit of life, notices little things, robotic movement and voice, not due to negative attitude, not because she is unfamiliar with job, nothing like that. Our average person sees someone who is past double shift, to triple shift, no wonder about the situation. She is dead tired.

So our average person might play CP 2077. Do certain NCPD mission at North East Westbrook, may hear some conversations by NPC's near ripper docs. Could do GIG at Sando Domingo called "Severance Package" and notice full workers whom have went through full body conversion in there.

And our average person could have remembered an ad and visiting that store and dead tired cashier, human trying to do robots work. So maybe our average person remembered that in next elections, story won't tell. But this is something that can achieve multiple goals on what people perceive rewarding. Not going to break that down but for Cyberpunk works, William Gibson's Neuromancer, it was technologically outdated when I read it back in the early '90s. Yet it spoke to generation of people, due its other aspects.

Another example is GIG: Backs Against the Wall where one aspect is consequences of corpo run war and what happens to people, yet there's another aspect there. There's a break down at forum post here.

There's a ton of stuff like that in the game, but now the problem is, that for people who cannot but 80 hours + to video games these simple aren't accessible. Back Against the Wall is one the last few GIGs from Regina. GIG Severance Package also on latter half from GIG:s from El Capitan.

I planned after my current playthrough to make yet another, some sort of guide to greatest hits to people whom cannot and won't budget much of their time to games. Well, I guess the good news is that I don't need to do that anymore.

 

[Ydiss2077]

There's a ton of stuff like that in the game, but now the problem is, that for people who cannot but 80 hours + to video games these simple aren't accessible. Back Against the Wall is one the last few GIGs from Regina. GIG Severance Package also on latter half from GIG:s from El Capitan.

This is also true. Not something I'd thought of because I generally complete all gigs in every play through because I enjoy doing them all. But this is somewhat true I suppose (although if you're the type not to unlock all the gigs because of not wanting to invest time in it then you probably avoid most of the gigs anyway, even pre-1.5)

Some above mention that they prefer the current process because the way it was before made them feel compelled to do stuff whilst nearby and I can't really argue with that (I think that's both true and false for me; I make trips through the City Centre as a low level V and I am quite happy to ignore everything on the map because I know it's too high level for me, but I did feel that compelling pull on my first play of the game which is how I came to realise how deadly they were to me).

CP2077's map is unique for me because it shows you everything immediately. That did surprise me the first time I played the game. I was used to GTA's style where you got jobs slowly and usually linearly. But, and this is the key really... it was designed in a way that rarely had you back-tracking to parts of the map you'd previously explored because GTA didn't have NPCD scanners (all of which show up immediately on the map), side-jobs that were already up and located there immediately and so on. It seems the devs have tried to change their game to be more like the GTA style but I don't think it was ever designed that way originally so it's really only meeting it half-way and, for me, results in a disjointed experience for the player.

Based on the replies here, I suppose they've achieved a successful outcome and perhaps I'm in the minority with my thoughts on this. And I'm not going to argue the point (although I think the suggestion that it felt "unnatural before because we just walked up to a marker and got a call" is an odd one, because that still happens now - it's not as though we visit the fixers, or even just give them a call, to get the jobs and THEN get the marker for it, which would feel a lot more natural). I just think it could be delivered in a better way than it has been.

Honestly, the concept that we've been given more "content" in the form of texts isn't something I am going to complain about but it really is just that (as in the new relationship stuff and this "interaction" with the fixers really is nice without really adding much depth at all to the process of playing the game).

 

[GogRelvas]

I have pros and cons on this new version. I believe where it hurts the most is for people replaying that want to "control" order of doing gigs aswell as main and side missions.
Edit: not just control the order but be able to avoid some gigs without losing others.
What I would suggest is creating a menu that we open up when talking face to face with a fixer and there we would have a list of all the gigs (some might be red, due to low street cred) where player can unlock a batch of missions (number will appear). Then you need to clear those before going to the fixer to unlock new batch.

 

[andrewdilley]

I have pros and cons on this new version. I believe where it hurts the most is for people replaying that want to "control" order of doing gigs aswell as main and side missions.
Edit: not just control the order but be able to avoid some gigs without losing others.
What I would suggest is creating a menu that we open up when talking face to face with a fixer and there we would have a list of all the gigs (some might be red, due to low street cred) where player can unlock a batch of missions (number will appear). Then you need to clear those before going to the fixer to unlock new batch.

Just a note - I'm on my 5th play, and it feels better. Less push do do stuff just because it's local. Pavel, I'm looking at you.

 

[CS554]

This is also true. Not something I'd thought of because I generally complete all gigs in every play through because I enjoy doing them all. But this is somewhat true I suppose (although if you're the type not to unlock all the gigs because of not wanting to invest time in it then you probably avoid most of the gigs anyway, even pre-1.5)

Some above mention that they prefer the current process because the way it was before made them feel compelled to do stuff whilst nearby and I can't really argue with that (I think that's both true and false for me; I make trips through the City Centre as a low level V and I am quite happy to ignore everything on the map because I know it's too high level for me, but I did feel that compelling pull on my first play of the game which is how I came to realise how deadly they were to me).

There's more to this subject.

One thing is to realize that even me, while I'm casual gamer but had lot's of time to play due Covid, like so many people. So I even my first playthrough that I started day 1 was 100% and second one was with 1.24 and about 90% and then with 1.3 I had 99,9% playthrough. It's very easy to to deduce from achievement stats, that this isn't how most people play the game. From my Xbox App, 22,31% of players has completed the main story line, but when it comes to completing GIG's and NCPD hustles achievement stats are from ~3 to 4% depending of district. While having NCPD missions and GIG's tied to same achievements complicates things a bit those numbers, ~3-4% still tells us a lot.

From there, let's take three things:

1. People on these forums are very much into game and feedback is valid, but it's what comes to matters like this topic or things like game length, it's questionable how much opinions presented here reflect experience of player base in general.
2. Question, what kind of problem CDPR were trying to solve by changing how GIG:s work? They could had simply had unlocking happen via Street Credit progression
3. Whatever problem CPDR perceived they solved by this, it's not without issues as:
3.1 Things mentioned in my earlier post
3.2 Replay value. Previously player could decide what to do and what to skip. Now player has to do the same things, in the same order. Charts for alternate playthrough with main story and some GIG's and NCPD mission won't work now and that's really a pity as if you plan for something like 40 to 45 hours playthrough including GIG:s and NCPD missions... I could think of two to three playthroughs, not doing exactly the same things.


There's also a matter of what kind of character each player's V is, what kind of decisions player decides to do and solve situations. For example my previous 99,9% playthrough. There's GIG from Dino in City Center called "The Frolics of Councilwoman Cole" and for my V, he figured that he had a lot's of money already and all things considered in his situation, there's actually someone in the Night City that's not absorbed with Braindances and fake shit but has focused relaxing in a way that actually makes sense, my V solved the thing just by not doing that GIG.

I haven't done any of the GIG's in City Center yet so I don't know how they covered other aspect of that GIG too. It actually at least used to have consequence. If V does that GIG, there was information via in-game TV about her stepping out, or something like that, in any case what V steals on that GIG is used to blackmail her, while if V didn't do that GIG there's wasn't news like that. So now, depending where GIG is in Dino's GIG's order, in worst case if players V decides not to do that, that will lock out many other GIG's and in best case, if it's last player only loses bonus item from Dino, not everyone cares about them though, but anyway, how GIG chains work now largely made what was one of situations that had in-game effect, linear or lose rest of the Dino's GIG's and / or bonus item.

But I don't know, like I wrote haven't done any of City Center gigs yet.

 

[GogRelvas]

There's more to this subject.

One thing is to realize that even me, while I'm casual gamer but had lot's of time to play due Covid, like so many people. So I even my first playthrough that I started day 1 was 100% and second one was with 1.24 and about 90% and then with 1.3 I had 99,9% playthrough. It's very easy to to deduce from achievement stats, that this isn't how most people play the game. From my Xbox App, 22,31% of players has completed the main story line, but when it comes to completing GIG's and NCPD hustles achievement stats are from ~3 to 4% depending of district. While having NCPD missions and GIG's tied to same achievements complicates things a bit those numbers, ~3-4% still tells us a lot.

From there, let's take three things:

1. People on these forums are very much into game and feedback is valid, but it's what comes to matters like this topic or things like game length, it's questionable how much opinions presented here reflect experience of player base in general.
2. Question, what kind of problem CDPR were trying to solve by changing how GIG:s work? They could had simply had unlocking happen via Street Credit progression
3. Whatever problem CPDR perceived they solved by this, it's not without issues as:
3.1 Things mentioned in my earlier post
3.2 Replay value. Previously player could decide what to do and what to skip. Now player has to do the same things, in the same order. Charts for alternate playthrough with main story and some GIG's and NCPD mission won't work now and that's really a pity as if you plan for something like 40 to 45 hours playthrough including GIG:s and NCPD missions... I could think of two to three playthroughs, not doing exactly the same things.


There's also a matter of what kind of character each player's V is, what kind of decisions player decides to do and solve situations. For example my previous 99,9% playthrough. There's GIG from Dino in City Center called "The Frolics of Councilwoman Cole" and for my V, he figured that he had a lot's of money already and all things considered in his situation, there's actually someone in the Night City that's not absorbed with Braindances and fake shit but has focused relaxing in a way that actually makes sense, my V solved the thing just by not doing that GIG.

I haven't done any of the GIG's in City Center yet so I don't know how they covered other aspect of that GIG too. It actually at least used to have consequence. If V does that GIG, there was information via in-game TV about her stepping out, or something like that, in any case what V steals on that GIG is used to blackmail her, while if V didn't do that GIG there's wasn't news like that. So now, depending where GIG is in Dino's GIG's order, in worst case if players V decides not to do that, that will lock out many other GIG's and in best case, if it's last player only loses bonus item from Dino, not everyone cares about them though, but anyway, how GIG chains work now largely made what was one of situations that had in-game effect, linear or lose rest of the Dino's GIG's and / or bonus item.

But I don't know, like I wrote haven't done any of City Center gigs yet.

yes agree 100%. I do believe the way it is now is how they envisioned or closer to it; but the way it was released, I think an incredible feature was discovered, that ability to roleplay different Vs according to the order, doing vs not doing, all that you mentioned, and it aligns with the side stories of characters and the main story arcs where the player has the same gameplay options.
The main thing that is better now is the clusterless which I apreciate amd the sense of progression with the fixers. But it doesn't make up for what was lost in my opinion

 

[DerHoss]

I made my first playthrough at release, and now started a second after 1.50, about halfway through at 80 hours.
And I must say I like the new system, it fits my playstyle very well.
I like to get myself properly immersed in the game world, I take my time. I rarely do more then two gigs in one night, and I only work during the night (mostly because the city looks much better then). I use the morning to run some errands, then I go to bed around noon.
In the evening I move to one area, make a gig or two. Clear out a few scanner hustles on my way. Explore a bit. Maybee deal with a cyberpsycho. When the sun rises I return home.

I like that there isn't just 20 jobs available and you do them and then the sector is cleared. Instead you go there do a job or two, and the next day you get a call that something else in on. Feels quite realistic, gives a certain continuity.

That 'progression' is just the cherry on the top. Wakakos katana is pretty neat, I'm still using that 15 levels later.

I don't see linerarity as a problem. There are plenty of fixers with plenty of jobs everywhere. I don't have to do them one fixer at a time. And theres always the scanner hustles and cyberpsychos, and of course the side missions. Oh, and every now and then I do a main mission, but theres so few of them, these hardly count.
So no, I don't have to do the same things in the same order.

Only problem I could theoreticaly see, is that its not possible to decline a job. I say 'theoreticaly' because I'll do them all anyway. But adding a 'decline gig' option would probably be a good idea.

 

[GogRelvas]

I made my first playthrough at release, and now started a second after 1.50, about halfway through at 80 hours.
And I must say I like the new system, it fits my playstyle very well.
I like to get myself properly immersed in the game world, I take my time. I rarely do more then two gigs in one night, and I only work during the night (mostly because the city looks much better then). I use the morning to run some errands, then I go to bed around noon.
In the evening I move to one area, make a gig or two. Clear out a few scanner hustles on my way. Explore a bit. Maybee deal with a cyberpsycho. When the sun rises I return home.

I like that there isn't just 20 jobs available and you do them and then the sector is cleared. Instead you go there do a job or two, and the next day you get a call that something else in on. Feels quite realistic, gives a certain continuity.

That 'progression' is just the cherry on the top. Wakakos katana is pretty neat, I'm still using that 15 levels later.

I don't see linerarity as a problem. There are plenty of fixers with plenty of jobs everywhere. I don't have to do them one fixer at a time. And theres always the scanner hustles and cyberpsychos, and of course the side missions. Oh, and every now and then I do a main mission, but theres so few of them, these hardly count.
So no, I don't have to do the same things in the same order.

Only problem I could theoreticaly see, is that its not possible to decline a job. I say 'theoreticaly' because I'll do them all anyway. But adding a 'decline gig' option would probably be a good idea.

I play the same way in terms of realistic timing, etc, I just got used to ignoring a lot of stuff on the older version and have rules of my own.
But I think the worse about the new system is for multiple playthroughs where roleplaying privileges going through the same story roleplaying as different Vs that goes through (or chooses not to) the content available differently. This limits that.

 

[CS554]

yes agree 100%. I do believe the way it is now is how they envisioned or closer to it; but the way it was released, I think an incredible feature was discovered, that ability to roleplay different Vs according to the order, doing vs not doing, all that you mentioned, and it aligns with the side stories of characters and the main story arcs where the player has the same gameplay options.
The main thing that is better now is the clusterless which I apreciate amd the sense of progression with the fixers. But it doesn't make up for what was lost in my opinion

I thought that was a possibility and of course it still is, until I remembered Frolics of Council Woman Frolic" GIG I wrote about in my previous post and that has or at least used to have in-game consequence if V did or didn't do that GIG.

I don't get though, why do this when they could'v just used Street Credit for unlocking GIG:s. Reward items for doing all the GIG's could still be there for those who want them. What would had changed?

So what that leaves on the table then? It's an addictive mechanic they wanted to add, for what gains, at this point of products life cycle, I don't know.

I don't know if it would made any difference, but I think of months of discussions about "game that promised" and all that, which lead us to situation that we weren't even talking about what skill system made possible and how that could be improved and then months later we did and now we see CPDR has improved those aspects 1.5, throwing knives, athletics skill progression, driving physics.

But we weren't talking about strong points of non-linear interconnectivity and that CP 2077 is not unlike some movies, Blade Runner being making a good example. For some its visuals, soundtrack, atmosphere and story are exiting and there's sense of adventure and mystery, what kind of stories that vision of the future might have. For others it's close to end game scenario, the Earth is dying, score is like lament of what has been lost. And there are these fuckers who still go after each other and in the end, can we even tell the two apart anymore? Or little scene where Rick meets Rachel and there's the Owl. "Do you like our owl?" - "It's artificial?" "Of course it is." Question that has grown more and more relevant in our real world during past years. I mean, there's supposed not war going to free independent nation from supposed nazis going on right now. Things like that.

So it does happen that people like some particular work for different reasons. Where's CP 2077 in that, is that it's a "looter shooter" game, it's RPG game, whatever that means, but it's also relevant work meaning books I have mentioned few times, actual studies, research. What tend to separate great works of fiction from the rest is that they can build towards understanding something substantial in real world. That can be something like this:

Good fiction, IMO can embrace reality. Few months back there was a news article about human traffic, people living in containers and working for like 50 eurocents for hour. It used to be like "Can't happen here", yet it did. Now offices responsible for preventing this are under scrutiny, which is a good thing.

Good fiction isn't shy. There are limits and it's not a job of games or entertainment industry in general to replace whatever systems different countries have. But works of fiction can present questions.

Or something larger, where I have mentioned Lasch, Putnam, Mill, etc.

I like to think audience as a spectrum different preferences being presented on that. And where my preferences are and how this sort of change works for people like me, not good and it doesn't do writing any favors as things are less accessible now.

 

[Ydiss2077]

I play the same way in terms of realistic timing, etc, I just got used to ignoring a lot of stuff on the older version and have rules of my own.
But I think the worse about the new system is for multiple playthroughs where roleplaying privileges going through the same story roleplaying as different Vs that goes through (or chooses not to) the content available differently. This limits that.

This is definitely something I'd agree with, although not something that impacts me. But then imagine how CP2077 would be if every single map icon worked this way... Only 2-4 NCPD scanners until you cleared them, then two more, always in the same order, for example. The fact that these are still largely non-linear is a saving grace. But I do tend to clear these as I do gigs, so this is absolutely pushing me through the map in a much more linear way than before.

I don't know. I'm almost done with this current V and have just Pacifica, The Glen and Downtown to clear. We can ignore Pacifica because it's got very few gigs anyway. But I can already see that Downtown (one gig initially, of 5) will probably be a railroad for me to complete based on the gigs.

Rancho Colorado was really annoying. I did the first couple gigs and the surrounding scanners, then the second set of gigs and local scanners and then the third set of gigs took me right back where I was before. Honestly, it just encouraged me to start using fast travel, it was just too much backtracking.

I never remember needing to do that before. I just did stuff in any order I chose, picking up stuff as I traveled through. It felt just as progressive. But it was my own path (which was always different, each time I played, until now). As it is now, the path is very much a line that you can draw around each region based on the gigs, where "decisions" are limited to which of the two new gigs you do first.

I definitely don't feel it's a seismic change for the better and the backtracking, for me, is still jarring. But then I spent a number of months playing New World, in which the quests absolutely are horrendous for repetitive backtracking. So perhaps that game made me overly sensitive to it.

I just think it would be better if it wasn't always +2 gigs (it's most jarring in Waton with Regina's 22 total gigs). If it was more to choose from, it would help.

 

[Joost_van_Kempen]

I think it makes more sense right now.

 

[CS554]

GIG I mentioned earlier in topic "The Frolics of Councilwoman Cole" is 3rd or 4th one in Dino's chain of gigs and you can't do the final one without doing this one first. I also wasn't able to find in-game TV content (perhaps it was on the radio?) news item regarding what happens to her after V does that GIG.

Definitely not a fan of this design. Dino's reward car is not essential, but a good one so. I think this one of these cases where people perceive that they get more when it's debatable if we actually got less.