lolI don't play games to compensate my personal frustrations, which is obviously your problem.wojto said:
You are learning real history from Old Testament? Way to go, boy!wojto said:
This history book of yours is nothing but a bunch of jewish myths and stories stolen from other cultures before it. Expelling of the Jews from ancient Egypt has nothing to do with racism, you should read your bible more carefully (even in Genesis 41:43, Gen 46:7, Gen 45:18 you'll find the real reasons, of course only if you know what scientific method is which I doubt). FYI - the term 'racism' was coined in the first half of 20th century, you would never hear it in so-called "dark ages".
I don't want to go off-topic too much, I gave you a few facts just to show that you lack fundamental knowledge to discuss about history. One tip for you: learn history from history books, not from games, comics and history channel.
Oh man, you're a troll and a bad one as you don't know what you are talking about.
The term "racism" has been first used in modern science in "Essai sur l`inégalite des races humaines" in mid XIX century, not in XX. However, translations of works of Plato (notably of Laws and The State) contain quite a lot of expressions like "superiour race" "inferior race", "purity of the race" etc, this is racism and it was there long before medieval times. You call it racism or use another word it's the same thing - humans disrespecting other humans because of their ethnical bacground. I guess it's almost as old as human race (suggest reading some Erich Fromm if you want to know more about it). As for the Bible, you have no clue what you're writing about - the Genesis contains no information about leaving the Egipt by Jews, it is about much earlier times. The Exodus is about the reasons for leaving and the travel to Israel itself. I used the Bible as an example as this is the most popular book of all times and I assumed that you may know what it is about. I was wrong, you have no idea even about the content of the Bible so how can we discuss less known historical accounts?You are learning real history from Old Testament? Way to go, boy!
What facts? have seen one false about term "racism" and one false about the Bible. No facts, no sources, a lot of trolling and personal remarks. Thanks, i''m done with this discussion.I don't want to go off-topic too much, I gave you a few facts just to show that you lack fundamental knowledge to discuss about history. One tip for you: learn history from history books, not from games, comics and history channel.
Don't worry about that x3me dude, Wojto. This guy is probably having a bad hair week. He has been complaining about everything. The guyis a bit frustrated so let him get it out of his system. Just don't take him seriously.
Again empty words. Gobineau's essay is not a scientific work and no one considers him a scientist. He is known as racialist theoretic, but you can't find this word in his essay (I own an English translation). The term 'racism' was not in use until 20th century, the term that preceded was 'racialism'. Look at any etymology dictionary next time before you try to discuss about something you learned from tv. The history of mankind is filled with class , ethnic, religious conflicts, so what? I'm not trying to deny such obvious fact. What bothers me in this game is certain amount of such modern terms in inappropriate context of medieval environment. You wrote:
Well, that's the jewish point of view. But if you read their Old Testament more carefully, you can figure out what really happened. I gave you some references from bible itself, but you showed an arrogant ignorance. Anyway, here they are:Genesis 41:43:"He (Pharaoh - Egyptian) had him ride in a chariot as his second-in-command, and men shouted before him, "Make way !" Thus he put him (Joseph - Jew) in charge of the whole land of Egypt.Genesis 45:18,20Joseph to his brothers:"and bring your father and your families back to me. I will give you the best of the land of Egypt and you can enjoy the fat of the land.""Never mind about your belongings, because the best of all Egypt will be yours.'"Genesis 46:7"He (Jacob - Jew) took with him to Egypt his sons and grandsons and his daughters and granddaughters—all his offspring."Very interesting points, don't you think? Poor jewish slaves. It reminds me of the USA of today. ;D Now, since it's not a history class, you can try to figure out the rest yourself.
lolI suggest you stick with Freud, Fromm, Reich, Hugh Hefner, Moses, Solomon and other similar 'scientists'. I'll be doing fine with plain old European science.
I'm going to leave aside the history discussion. No doubt in a contest of citing facts and sources you'd win, and whilst I might learn a lot from it that's a hobby I'll save for another day. Pretty much everything you dislike - because it is not in keeping with your definition of a 'medieval environment' - exists in Sapkowski's books. Now, I'm well aware that RPG medieval settings tend to follow certain rules of what is and isn't allowed, but not every fantasy world follows that format. I'm not especially fond of elves in the pointy-eared and superior-attitude sense tbh, but they are in Sapkowski's world and therefore it's not an unfair assumption that they might crop up in the game. The same goes for the political and religious aspects that are present. The author created Temeria and its issues, so he can make the rules.EDIT:I do see (sort of) where you're coming from, but I think your problem is with the author and the world setting, not the game.x3me said:
I guess you write some bullshit, watch people correct you and have pleasure getting on their nerves. I see this kind of behaviour for the first time so please tell me - has this mental disturbance been given a name already?Read the source then quote it, you're completely wrong about the bible. The Jews were social elite in Genesis, then became slaves in Exodus and that's why they left Egypt. Gobineau's works are often quoted in modern sociological literature, so he is a recognized, even if not agreed with, sciencist. Freud and Fromm were europeans.EOT for me, this discussion is pointless.Mod, could you please move last posts to off-topic? This discussion has nothing to do with the game.
Vincalis.The name of this topic is "Opinion by gamers". In my first post I simply wrote my opinion about this game, but some people can't accept that someone else has a different point of view. I repeat: I think this is a good game, but far from being one of the best RPGs ever, period.
What you corrected, with what arguments? You are just a registered member like me. If you think I'm writing bullshit, then simply don't read my posts. Remember, you are the one who started this off-topic discussion, not me. Let me help you - the name of this 'disturbance' could be: a crash course in history, sociology and politics. You better enjoy, 'cos this is a last lesson.1. Gobineau is a recognized scientist? This really needs no comment. Just one thing: Gobineau's racialists views are so outdated even from the point of view of today's racialists, not to mention 'official' anthropology, sociology, etc.2.The Old Testament tells us stories from Jewish history, but from the Jewish point of view. If you want to learn what really happened , you must use scientific method (like I wrote in one of my posts), which among the other things means that you must consult other sources, related scientific disciplines (archeology in this case), etc. To make a long story short: the Jews were expelled from ancient Egypt, not because Egyptians were racists, but for the same reasons they were ousted from almost every country they inhabited in the forthcoming centuries. At this point I'm gonna stop and stay politically correct ;D, just start with quotes from Genesis and you'll be on the right track.3.Freud and Fromm were Ashkenazi Jews, their ancestors were judaized Khazars, a Turkic nomads from the Asiatic steppes.You are dismissed, the class is over. 8)wojto said:
Guys, your discussion about medieval time and "the witcher" is pointless in my opinion. Because "The Witcher" isn't actually placed in medieval times...It is fantasy world BASED ON 'medieval environment'... so you can't say that for example racism shouldn't be there because it is not medieval... (personally I think it is but let's not talk about it). Well I think that elves aren't medieval either...And for those of us who have read The Books We should take into consideration, that maybe we see in The Game more than those who didn't read The Books . For example when I was veeery young I had seen "Star Wars - The Empire Strikes Back"... few years later I saw "Star Wars - The Phantom Menace" and I actually liked it despite it is poor movie... The same was with LOTR, the movie is not poor movie, but it is not that good I think it is. But I think it is great because I see in it more than it actually shows... And last but not least I think that with fantasy book you should be young when you read them because when you are older you will not feel them because they want be mature enough for you. Fortunately "The Witcher" (The Book) sometimes can be mature enough but still this is fantasy world... What I mean is, all of you guys who read The Books must take into consideration that many people here just don't get THE CLIMATE of the game... This is not because they don't understand it this is because they don't feel it. And conclusion is you can't get them to like this game by words unless you are poets...But fortunately as we can see on this forum for many it is enough to catch a glimpse of some hidden world to get into the swing of it
We should take into consideration, that maybe we see in The Game more than those who didn't read The Books . For example when I was veeery young I had seen "Star Wars - The Empire Strikes Back"... few years later I saw "Star Wars - The Phantom Menace" and I actually liked it despite it is poor movie... The same was with LOTR, the movie is not poor movie, but it is not that good I think it is. But I think it is great because I see in it more than it actually shows... And last but not least I think that with fantasy book you should be young when you read them because when you are older you will not feel them because they want be mature enough for you. Fortunately "The Witcher" (The Book) sometimes can be mature enough but still this is fantasy world... What I mean is, all of you guys who read The Books must take into consideration that many people here just don't get THE CLIMATE of the game... This is not because they don't understand it this is because they don't feel it. And conclusion is you can't get them to like this game by words unless you are poets...But fortunately as we can see on this forum for many it is enough to catch a glimpse of some hidden world to get into the swing of it I think it's irretating for some poeple beacuse it's new content which brings The Witcher into the fantasy genre. But actually these "modern themes" aren't a disease of our presence but deep rooted in the medieval times. Racism, corruption, bribing, rape, supression of minority groups, etc. exist for centuries but not yet converted into (fairy tale) fantasy novels and games.@x3meSure you can have your opionen about the game, which isn't full of praise, np. But the trick is how to express such an opinion without insults and afront.
This is really unbelievable. Please, before post you should try to actually read what I wrote:
[size=12pt]Terms, not themes[/size]! The developers IMO should have done it in another, more subtle way. Here comes another one:
Again. Who said that racism shouldn't be there as a social phenomenon? What bothers me is inappropriate usage of words which don't belong to medieval world. Why? Because medieval people knew what hate based on different color of skin is, but they didn't use modern terms to describe it. This game is full of such illogical terms and sentences, and that's what obstruct me to really immerse myself in a game. Can you imagine Aragorn shouting before the battle "Let's rock 'n' roll"? On the other side you have Geralt with his "shit, babe" and "abso-fuckin'-lutely". IMO this was 'abso-fuckin'-lutely' unnecesary, no matter if we talk about fantasy-medieval or not. And yes, elves aren't medieval, but they are fantasy, and this is a fantasy-medieval RPG, remember?
"An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth"PetraSilie said:
I didn't adress my entire post to you when I used some poeple, but okay, since you feel attacked from it... I don't know the English version of TW I'll check the German version entirely for absurd and inappropriate phrases and list them here.The only post I have adressed to you you didn't give an appropriate answer. It's not necessary anymore cos I read several other posts from you.
Interresting debate going on here I have to say, this is very common problem with almost any RPG around here. We all have different preferrences and different views of fantasy worlds and there is no way the devs could please everyone. For readers of the Witcher novels and stories the game represents fully believable representation of Witcher's world. For "outsider" it may really seem strange but hey racism is a common phenomenon in our history and in fantasy words. In medieval times there was racism as well - sometimes hidden behing faith issues but really the crusades do have a racial taste to them. And representation of such phenomenoms like racism in Witcher? I like it, it is straight without being black and white, instead full shades of grey. Modern take on women? Yes, the game and the book use modern language which makes them accessible to modern people. As I said before - there is no way a game could comply with everyones expectations. Actualy I can think of quite a few fantasy words which are breaking the rules of "the only right fantasy" - Sapkowski and his Witcher, Prattchett and his Discworld... and even in fantasy's fantasy like David Eddings's Elenium trilogys there is racism present.
I have to say, this is very common problem with almost any RPG around here. We all have different preferrences and different views of fantasy worlds and there is no way the devs could please everyone. For readers of the Witcher novels and stories the game represents fully believable representation of Witcher's world. For "outsider" it may really seem strange but hey racism is a common phenomenon in our history and in fantasy words. In medieval times there was racism as well - sometimes hidden behing faith issues but really the crusades do have a racial taste to them. And representation of such phenomenoms like racism in Witcher? I like it, it is straight without being black and white, instead full shades of grey. Modern take on women? Yes, the game and the book use modern language which makes them accessible to modern people. As I said before - there is no way a game could comply with everyones expectations. Actualy I can think of quite a few fantasy words which are breaking the rules of "the only right fantasy" - Sapkowski and his Witcher, Prattchett and his Discworld... and even in fantasy's fantasy like David Eddings's Elenium trilogys there is racism present.Yeap, interesting thing.....I can't remember any game placed in a medieval era that acted as a medieval one....in every game you will find many things that are not related to the era the game is placed into....so why bother.....altghough there are some games as KOTOR 1&2 where not so many modern dialogues are present....Cya!
hmm, Sapkowski is an intelligent writer.His use of language is conscious. Some attributes of his works seem to have a lot in common with the attributes of post-modern literature:* an attempt to integrate art and life -- the inclusion of popular forms, popular culture, everyday reality* the writing of reflexive or meta-fiction: fiction which is in the first instance aware of itself as fiction and which may dramatize the false or constructed nature of fiction, on the one hand, or the inevitable fictionality of all experience, on the other. *parodies of all sorts of meta-narrative and master-code elements, including genre and literary form,.Check this link: http://www.brocku.ca/english/courses/2F55/post-mod-attrib.htmland read Sapkowski...
Don't make me laugh. You copied and pasted here a couple of empty phrases just to prove nothing. Your quoted points are typical for almost all genres, not only post-modernism. What defines post-modernism and post-modernism only is just another off-topic discussion which has nothing to do with the simple fact that every hero (not primarily a medieval one) looks stupid with comments like "shit, babe" and "abso-fuckin'-lutely".fantasta said:
Well, you can start with The Guild, but since it's fantasy-RPG we are talking about, almost every other game in the genre (Gothic series, Elder Scrolls series, just to name a few) has the same 'noir' elements incorporated in the more subtle and less banal way.fantasta said: